Prince Henrik Retiring from Official Duties as of January 1, 2016

[Tatiana Maria]

Sorry, I have only just returned to the forums after a few years and didn't know this was a tedious topic or even discussed. Not trying to stir up any arguments thanks very much.

Your post was not tedious or argumentative.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I think it seems logical for the husband of any Queen to be made King. Why is it that the wife of a King can be Queen then?

Logical was the Dutch solution set in 2002: any spouse of a monarch or heir bears the title Prince (Princess). Period. More gender-equal, more transparent and more clear to the constitutional realities is not possible.

Sadly the Dutch politicians muddied with their own arrangement in April 2013 (accession of a new King): "Heu... isn't it unelegant or undesireable that our Máxima is no Queen?" despite having had three successive princes as consort to three successive monarchs.

 

[Muhler]

I think it seems logical for the husband of any Queen to be made King. Why is it that the wife of a King can be Queen then?

Very simple: Why change something that works? And has been working well for many centuries.
Men who have married ruling queens are titled prince, it's simply and not confusing. It works.

Why change something that works to satisfy the desire of a man to hold a title that is basically empty?
Gender equality? PH? - Well, he hasn't exactly been a forerunner for gender equality...
In the holy name of political correctness? - Bah! Spare us. The sooner political correctness is dead and buried the better IMO! Then perhaps we can have our freedom back to again say what we think.

PH still holds the second-foremost position in the land, except in constitutional issues. That's it. Why can't he live with that?
He want's to be equal with his wife, he says. Well, he is equal to his wife, I should hope, they are married.
But he cannot be equal to the head of state.

And why should we reduce the title of queen (consort)? It works as it is.

As a man I don't see any problems with men marrying ruling queens "only" getting the title of prince. Especially since it makes no difference.
It's like calling a spade a manually operated digging tool - it may sound more fancy but it's still just a spade.

PH is not interested in equality, let's get that straight. - And I'm willing to bet my right arm on what I write now being the truth.
He want's to be and remain the head of the family - in every respect. And he cannot and he will not accept that this is not possible just because it says so in the Constitution and The Law of Succession.

- And that could make me wonder whether PH was "advised" to retire, rather than opted to retire. Or that QMII was advised to "retire" PH the next time he stepped out of line.
It would certainly be a desirable solution politically speaking, as well as PR- wise for the DRF.
Because as PH has retired the question of him being king has also been retired.
It's merely a theory, unfortunately not completely implausible IMO.

 

[Nordic]

Prince Henrik has been retired for a year now but his household hasn't gotten any smaller:

The Court | The Danish Monarchy - Front Page

Chief of Court of HRH Prince Henrik, museum director, Michael Bjørn Nellemann
Chief of Secretariat to HRH Prince Henrik, Major Nils Nykjær
Secretary to HRH Prince Henrik Olivier Lesenecal​
Secretary Marianne Gøttsche Dupont

I wonder if a secretary wouldn't be quite enough in the current situation.

 

[Mbruno]

Logical was the Dutch solution set in 2002: any spouse of a monarch or heir bears the title Prince (Princess). Period. More gender-equal, more transparent and more clear to the constitutional realities is not possible.

Sadly the Dutch politicians muddied with their own arrangement in April 2013 (accession of a new King): "Heu... isn't it unelegant or undesireable that our Máxima is no Queen?" despite having had three successive princes as consort to three successive monarchs.

I suppose the point the Dutch politicians were making is that the wives of the last male king before Willem-Alexander were called "queen" and, by analogy, Máxima should also have the same courtesy title.

Interestingly, even in Spain where the husbands of reigning queens have traditionally been called "kings", they have now bowed to Northern European influence and decided, as stated in the royal decree 1368/1987, that the husband of the "Queen of Spain" (i.e the reigning queen) shall have "the dignity of 'Prince' " only, and not that of king as in the past.

I suppose the distinction makes some sense in countries like the UK where there are still coronations and the queen consort is crowned together with her husband whereas the husband of a reigning queen is not, but, elsewhere, I don't see an objective reason to distinguish between the two cases.

 

[Muhler]

During the recent Belgian state visit PH went to the Spanish island of Tenerife and relaxed: El Príncipe Enrique de Dinamarca pasa unos días de descanso en Santiago del Teide - eldigitalsur

Not that I blame him, Tenerife is a lovely island, not least at this time of year.

 

[Alisa]

Personally, vacations are most enjoyed after a period of hard work.
To vacation constantly would be most certainly boring.
I know this may sound like a broken record, but I find it unfair that he receives a yearly allowance when he does not do the work that warrants it.

 

[HRHHermione]

Personally, vacations are most enjoyed after a period of hard work.
To vacation constantly would be most certainly boring.
I know this may sound like a broken record, but I find it unfair that he receives a yearly allowance when he does not do the work that warrants it.

I wouldn't find it boring to vacation constantly- sounds like a pretty amazing life to me. So much time for reading and hobbies.

I'm with you on the idea that he should not be paid taxpayer money while not working.

 

[Curryong]

Yes, me too. I'm sure Henrik's own funds could cover a holiday in lovely Tenerife. Also, as his schedule is no longer 'official' his staff could also be cut, IMO.

 

[Muhler]

You are right.

It's also something that annoys people here in DK. - Not that big an issue it seems, but when the topic falls on PH the general opinion is that it's ok for him to retire, but the apanage should be cut down.

 

[camelot23ca]

I think technically Henrik's apanage should be cut but it's not a huge amount of money in the scheme of things and, to be blunt, Henrik is old. It's not like the funds are going to continued to be paid out for decades.

Henrik should enjoy his retirement with whatever funds are available to him and focus on not causing any more controversy for the DRF.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I wouldn't find it boring to vacation constantly- sounds like a pretty amazing life to me. So much time for reading and hobbies.

I'm with you on the idea that he should not be paid taxpayer money while not working.

The good man is way beyond the age of retirement. He has no employer with a pension fund like any other Danish civil or military personnel. An allowance is not a salary. It is given because Henri de Laborde de Monpezat happens to be the spouse of Her Majesty The Queen. There is no work schedule, boss-staff relationship. When Mary will be in the same position as Henrik, she will receive an allowance as well, also for life, and like Henri it is meant to finance the execution of the royal function on a way which befits the position and the dignity of the royal consort.

One should not look to the old gentleman living the last fase of his life. One should not forget the almost 50 years of dedication and service. From the once elegant James Bond-look a like to the big Pater Familias lies a whole long and eventful royal life. Prince Henrik's allowance is relatively modest and completely drowns away in the State Budget.

 

[Muhler]

I disagree with both of you.

The money are nothing in the big picture, but they have symbolic value.

PH is the first DRF to officially retire and when you retire your salary is usually cut down.
No one says he shouldn't get any money, but most of his apanage is supposed to go to PH's staff. How big a staff does a retiree need? His adjutant is paid for the Ministry of Defense, so a valet and a part time secretary should be enough for a retiree I should imagine. - After his most of his protections have been taken over by others or discontinued.
So half his apanage could be transferred to QMII instead. And he'd still live a comfortable life in retirement.

 

[Mbruno]

I disagree with both of you.

The money are nothing in the big picture, but they have symbolic value.

PH is the first DRF to officially retire and when you retire your salary is usually cut down.
No one says he shouldn't get any money, but most of his apanage is supposed to go to PH's staff. How big a staff does a retiree need? His adjutant is paid for the Ministry of Defense, so a valet and a part time secretary should be enough for a retiree I should imagine. - After his most of his protections have been taken over by others or discontinued.
So half his apanage could be transferred to QMII instead. And he'd still live a comfortable life in retirement.

I agree with Mr. Muhler. Now that PH is retired, he doesn't need a big household and staff , so his apanage should be reduced accordingly. KIng Albert also gets less money now that he has abdicated from the Belgian throne. I suppose the same must be true for Princess Beatrix and King Juan Carlos, but I am not sure.

 

[AristoCat]

His office budget should be removed and so should his office staff, but that should be about it. The rest is his as the Queen's spouse and it's not like he's really burdening the nation.

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

I disagree with both of you.

The money are nothing in the big picture, but they have symbolic value.

PH is the first DRF to officially retire and when you retire your salary is usually cut down.
No one says he shouldn't get any money, but most of his apanage is supposed to go to PH's staff. How big a staff does a retiree need? His adjutant is paid for the Ministry of Defense, so a valet and a part time secretary should be enough for a retiree I should imagine. - After his most of his protections have been taken over by others or discontinued.
So half his apanage could be transferred to QMII instead. And he'd still live a comfortable life in retirement.

I agree with you, as I usually do.

I agree with Mr. Muhler. Now that PH is retired, he doesn't need a big household and staff , so his apanage should be reduced accordingly. KIng Albert also gets less money now that he has abdicated from the Belgian throne. I suppose the same must be true for Princess Beatrix and King Juan Carlos, but I am not sure.

I don't follow the Dutch, Spanish and Belgian royals, but the abdicated Beatrix isn't retired, so she still needs a lot of money to pay for staff etc.

 

[maria-olivia]

His Sculptures are they expensive masterpieces in Denmark?

 

[Muhler]

His Sculptures are they expensive masterpieces in Denmark?

I don't think anyone has put a price on them, because royals are not like commercial artists.
PH doesn't sell his sculptures, they are donated to a town or a place and as such not supposed to be sold later on.
But if a figure is stolen or destroyed at some point we may learn the insurance value.

 

[Terri Terri]

Not meaning to be morbid, but I think that the only way that Prince Henrik's appanage will decrease is if Queen Margrethe predeceased him.

 

[camelot23ca]

I think the discussion above is interesting because it raises the question of what the funds royals get actually are. Do they get the money to fund what they do or because of who they are and their symbolic position in their countries?

If the money for Henrik was meant specifically to fund his official activities then the apanage should be seen as equivalent to a salary and he shouldn't get it anymore. He's entitled to whatever a normal Danish retiree would receive from the government.

If the money was given to him because of his position as the Danish consort he should get it until he dies.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

In the Netherlands Princess Wilhelmina lived 14 years after her abdication, Princess Juliana and Prince Bernhard lived 24 years after her abdication, Princess Beatrix lives, 4 years after her abdication, Prince Claus was almost 20 years out of the running from 1982 until 2002. All of them receive(d) an annual allowance for the rest of their life. That has nothing to do with themselves as individuals but purely on base of a legal arrangement: the present King, the future King, and the King who has abdicated -plus their spouses- receive an annual allowance.

Why? Because the lawmaker found (and still finds) it "undesireable" that the Bearer of the Crown and the consort are in "a dependant situation to third parties". So no Crown Prince pursuing a commercial career, no King exploiting his own chain of hotels.

As the only individuals they are denied a free choice in pursuing their own career in society. In exchange for that, they have a lavish allowance which befits the rank, the dignity and the proper execution of the royal role.

Exactly because of this unique position, the Bearer of the Crown and the consort do not fall under normal schemes, like a unemployment funds, disability funds, sick pay, maternal leave or something like a pension fund. They are completely incomparable with any other, not even with a President or a Prime Minister whom can pursue (often very well paid) careers after their term(s) in Office.

The Prince of Denmark is waaaaay beyond his pension age, he has worked longer than any Dane is required to do. Also the late Queen Ingrid was financially supported for her lifetime. In the total royal budget the allowance of the Prince is just a detail. His office is a spin-off from the machinery which works at Amalienborg. Prince Henrik is and remains a Prince of Denmark. He needs a secretary, he uses the royal transportation, the royal life guards will equally parade on the square before the palaces, retired or not. His horses will be well-groomed, his suits will be pressed, he will still have personal protection, etc. There is not that much different at all. It is all pettiness about nothing. I am happy the State of Denmark has enough grandesse to see that being petty makes no sense. Cheers! Your Royal Highness! Enjoy your lovely dachshunden and the beautiful wines from Caïx!

 

[Nordic]

His office is a spin-off from the machinery which works at Amalienborg. Prince Henrik is and remains a Prince of Denmark. He needs a secretary, he uses the royal transportation, the royal life guards will equally parade on the square before the palaces, retired or not

He has a bit more than just "a secretary"...

The Court | The Danish Monarchy - Front Page

 

[AristoCat]

Given that he is a man of his times and position, he's used to things being a certain way and he shouldn't have that all yanked from him. He'll be by the Queen's side at places and it is pointless that he loses anything due to a type of retirement that is very different due to his very different life.

 

[tommy100]

Its interesting to me that there has been such a huge fuss (by the media at least) for Countess Alexandra to give up her appanage because she no longer works yet here is Henrik doing the same and hardly anyone says he should give his allowance up.

 

[cepe]

Does this money go directly to Prince Henrik (equating to a salary) or is it to run his office?

Using the UK as an example:-

The Duke of Edinburgh receives c. £250,000 pa to run his office and although it is said he is retiring, that doesn't mean his office will shut down. I can see his office carrying on till prob 12 months after he dies as people write to him re his charities etc, or offer condolences. This seems logical.

But it is not a salary - as long as his office needs specific support I could understand the payment. Although I would also expect it would decline over the yrs.

 

[AristoCat]

Its interesting to me that there has been such a huge fuss (by the media at least) for Countess Alexandra to give up her appanage because she no longer works yet here is Henrik doing the same and hardly anyone says he should give his allowance up.

Alexandra worked before her marriage and was still at an age where she could find something to do with herself. She had a huge settlement and it's one thing to pay for a princess, but quite another to pay for a Countess and it was stipulated that if she remarried she would no longer be a princess. She has her own work now and she lives in an era when older women work, it's expected. She isn't born into the royal way of life and she was the wife of the younger son, not the Heir.

Henrik is still married to the Sovereign and it's not like he was married for ten years, he's been married to the Queen for much of his life and he can't just have it both ways. He can't get a career on track and he can't just step back in at his age.

 

[Muhler]

Does this money go directly to Prince Henrik (equating to a salary) or is it to run his office?

Both.
The majority of the apanage the individual members of the DRF gets, goes to salaries for their staff and other employees. Then administration and representation. On top of that there are a number of other minor expenses.
An undisclosed part of the apanage is considered a personal salary, for the royal to use as he/she pleases.

So the issue is that since PH has retired, he doesn't need as big a staff as he used to, nor does he have similar expenses on administration and representation. So why should he get the full amount?
And that raises the question: Since his number of official jobs are cut way down (or ought to be cut way down, since he is retired) then his expenses should be cut down proportionally, but as he still receive the same amount as before, what are the money used to now? - Himself?

He put himself in that situation by announcing his official retirement.
Queen Ingrid never retired, she simply quietly carried out fewer and fewer functions, so the issue of her apanage was never on the table. Because officially she remained a fully active, working and functioning member of the DRF - while PH is in some kind of limbo.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The Prince's Household has only four officials, according kongehuset.dk, without giving information about the sort of occupation (in employment or detached via civil/military services?) and the hours (fulltime, parttime?):

Hofchef (Chief of The Prince's Court) Michael Nellemann
Sekretariatschef (Chief of The Prince's Secretariat) major Nils Nykjær
Sekretariatsfuldmægtig (Secretary) Olivier Lesenecal​
Erhvervssproglig fuldmægtig (Foreign Language Secretary) Marianne Gøttsche Dupont

The workings of The Prince's Secretariat is embedded in the general Court Organization which provides the intendance, the facilitary services, the transportation, the security, the archives, etc. for the Royal House in general.

 

[camelot23ca]

He put himself in that situation by announcing his official retirement.
Queen Ingrid never retired, she simply quietly carried out fewer and fewer functions, so the issue of her apanage was never on the table. Because officially she remained a fully active, working and functioning member of the DRF - while PH is in some kind of limbo.

Exactly. There should never have been such a definitive announcement; they really shot themselves in the foot with that. There's no reason Henrik can't be doing the occasional engagement while still having plenty of time to enjoy himself. By all outward appearances he's still a relatively healthy man.

I think the more royals start to make themselves seem more ordinary, for example by doing things like retiring, (or abdicating), the more the public is going to start to demand they be treated like ordinary citizens/government departments and that means things like total financial accountability.

A lot of monarchies have had a pretty sweet deal for a long time in that governments have tolerated a certain amount of murkiness with regard to their finances. I think those days are rapidly coming to an end even for the most popular of monarchies.

 

[Ish]

He put himself in that situation by announcing his official retirement.

It seems to me that Henrik was in a bit of a damned if he did, damned if he didn't type of situation.

By announcing his retirement he explained his lack of appearances, but gained criticism for his apanage.

Had he not announced it, though, and he would have been criticized for his lack of appearances, particularly in regards to events that QMII would typically be escorted to. It seems to me that Prince Henrik was already receiving criticism of this nature prior to the announcement of his retirement.

I would add that I think part of PH's problem is that he seemed to have taken a degree of resentment towards Denmark prior to his retirement (and via versa), and since his retirement has lived a somewhat extravagant life, while still taking an income from the Danish state.

I don't know much about Queen Ingrid, but if she was better liked in Denmark and lived a less extravagant life, I suspect the issue of her apanage might have been viewed differently had an official retirement been announced - the fact that she was a Dowager instead of a Consort likely would have helped too.

I think there's a good contrast between the retirements of Prince Henrik and Prince Philip; both are elderly men who immigrated to a new country and married women who became Queen. Both had to adapt to being "less" than their wives while also being expected to serve their adopted countries, and both in time are going to be beneath their sons (if they live long enough). Yet PH's retirement is poorly received, while the DoE's so far is largely well received. It's interesting, but I think it's largely because of the differences in their overall attitudes; the DoE got over being beneath his wife, and has been treated fairly well terms of being "beneath" his son (he isn't actually beneath Charles at all while the Queen is alive, and doesn't typically attend things where Charles is the Queen's representative), and has served Britain and the Commonwealth with a clear sense of duty. I doubt his wage will be reduced immensely when he retires, but I also doubt he'll be shown as living extravagantly after either - Balmoral, Windsor, and Sandringham may not be cheap to maintain, but it has a different appearance than a foreign vacation does.