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  #301  
Old 02-20-2016, 03:42 PM
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I don't think Juan Carlos left with grace but was more forced out after his scandal with killing an elephant but this is not the thread for that

Thanks Muhler for the new poll. I too don't believe Henrik wanted the Queen to abdicate. He would explode in jealousy seeing Frederik go from #2 to #1.

I guess we will have to see how the rest of the year plays out. I do hope the Queen is getting support.

And Duc_et_Pair your comment was insulting and says alot about you than the Danes.
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  #302  
Old 02-20-2016, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by polyesco View Post
I don't think Juan Carlos left with grace but was more forced out after his scandal with killing an elephant but this is not the thread for that

Thanks Muhler for the new poll. I too don't believe Henrik wanted the Queen to abdicate. He would explode in jealousy seeing Frederik go from #2 to #1.

I guess we will have to see how the rest of the year plays out. I do hope the Queen is getting support.

And Duc_et_Pair your comment was insulting and says alot about you than the Danes.
It is interesting that I show my displeasure about the way the Danes react on Prince Henrik. Sadly also with xenophobic tendences, mocking his French background. That is insulting, I understand?

That you in your very own post claim that "he would explode in jealousy seeing Frederik go from #2 to #1" apparently is no insult? You directly make a claim about someone whom served Queen and country for almost half a century, whom has retired in his eighties (!) and burn him down to his feet as a father in the direction of his son.

Interesting. Veeeeeery interesting.
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  #303  
Old 02-20-2016, 11:39 PM
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You are being unfair, Duc et Pair.

This is not about PH being French or xenophobia, this is about PH ruining things for himself - big time!

Let me remind you that until less than two years ago PH was actually popular, especially among the young where he was almost a cult figure.

Then he made the huge mistake of visibly embarrassing his wife on foreign TV, by talking about being king. Despite repeatedly having been told in no uncertain terms by leading politicians and the public as well, that he could forget all about it. It was not going to happen. Period!

His second huge mistake, where he again in the eyes of the public embarrassed his wife was at QMII's birthday celebrations. He was down with a flu.
Now, a flu at his age is serious, even dangerous. Yet within 48 hours of the celebrations he was strolling around in public in Italy. He couldn't even make an appearance at a window or on a balcony for five minutes to support his wife. Not even five measly minutes.
If you happen to accidentally rip off your arm on your wife's big day, you stitch it back on with safety pins and make an appearance before going to the hospital. So in the eyes of the public he deliberately embarrassed QMII. - And that's one of the mildest descriptions!
Anyone who has been down with flu know that if you are so ill you have to cancel going to such a big event, you are likely to be too washed out afterwards to even think about going abroad.

Despite the bad press he got, he went on with the king-issue.
And then without warning, it was announced that PH was to officially retire.
An official retirement is unheard for the DRF, certainly for such a senior member. And also unnecessary. He could just have said in an interview that he was feeling tired, hadn't got the strength anymore, didn't feel he could fulfill his duty satisfactory any more and it is better to let the younger take over more. And quietly cut down.
But no, he was retired literally from day to day and not even for health reasons. - So of course everybody was and is speculating what on earth is going on?!?
Not least because he has been to Italy and now three weeks in Egypt, but too frail or old to be at his wife's side. That makes people wonder.

As for PH's relationship with his son, that is one serious culture clash!
The concept of a patriarch of the family and that patriarch feeling usurped by his son is completely alien to contemporary Danish mindset.
So there was absolutely no understanding, let alone sympathy when PH went off to France and complained about being number three.
As an intelligent, sensitive man who at that time had spent 35 years in DK, he ought to have known that.
Had Frederik been my son I would have been beaming with pride! Not only that as a parent I would felt a big sense of success. I've brought up and prepared my son well. I might very well have embarrassed Frederik, but that was because I would have run around to all some 140 diplomats and told them: "That's my son. My son"!

PH admittedly has had a bad time. However, he very much asked for it. He way too often behaved as if he was the monarch and not the consort, that was especially evident in the 70's.
Now, PH's understanding of Danish is brilliant! Better than many natives. However, to this day he speaks with a dreadful accent, but more annoying he makes constant basic grammatical mistakes. It's circus-Danish.
Imagine me living in France for now 45 years and you almost have to put in subtitles to understand me, wouldn't you consider that an irritant? And wouldn't you feel I was disrespecting your language? - Keeping in mind that I speak several languages well, yet speak French as if I've only been there a couple of years.
So of course satirists pick on that and of course he is mocked for it.

To sum up: I still lean towards PH suffering from some kind of dementia, which would also explain his lack of, yes, common sense.
But the fact that I'm in serious doubt does say quite a lot about PH...
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  #304  
Old 02-21-2016, 12:54 AM
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This is what I don't understand. Henrik had to have known that his title would be prince consort when Margrethe ascended to the throne before he married her. She's not an absolute monarch so she had no power to give him the king title, especially since the government and the public were saying no. (I presume the Danish parliament would have to sign off for the title upgrade for Henrik even if Margrethe proposed it.)

I was so steamed when Henrik was a no-show for the queen's birthday. I think it is tough for a crown princess who becomes queen regnant to find a consort willing to walk a pace behind her, live within the constraints of that position and work to keep her marriage solid and happy. Although the queen announced Henrik was retiring, it still looks sad that Margrethe without a partner during the New Year receptions and King Harald of Norway's Silver Jubilee.
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  #305  
Old 02-21-2016, 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
This is what I don't understand. Henrik had to have known that his title would be prince consort when Margrethe ascended to the throne before he married her. She's not an absolute monarch so she had no power to give him the king title, especially since the government and the public were saying no. (I presume the Danish parliament would have to sign off for the title upgrade for Henrik even if Margrethe proposed it.)

I was so steamed when Henrik was a no-show for the queen's birthday. I think it is tough for a crown princess who becomes queen regnant to find a consort willing to walk a pace behind her, live within the constraints of that position and work to keep her marriage solid and happy. Although the queen announced Henrik was retiring, it still looks sad that Margrethe without a partner during the New Year receptions and King Harald of Norway's Silver Jubilee.
Muhler has summarized the situation perfectly, mange tak I think the dementia you mention is probably of a diplomatic nature Indeed, it is unfortunate that the Prince consort no longer wishes to consort, but I am certain the Queen would much rather read reports of him enjoying himself in Egypt than have to deal with his grumbling in Copenhagen. C'est la vie, n'est-ce pas?
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  #306  
Old 02-21-2016, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
I do not recall this sort of nasty and vile comments on royals in comparable situations. Like Grand-Duke Jean, Queen Juliana, Grand-Duchess Joséphine-Charlotte, Queen Elizabeth (the Queen-Mother), Prince Bernhard, King Juan Carlos, etc. Sometimes the Danes can be quite nasty people. Not only in these royal matters but just in general, seeing the mood in society these days. Bleegh!
People who are not enraptured as you are with royals are not "nasty." Does the average Dane retire on full pension?? If not why should Henrik? Because he passed his rarefied genes into the Danish Royal Family?
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  #307  
Old 02-21-2016, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
To sum up: I still lean towards PH suffering from some kind of dementia, which would also explain his lack of, yes, common sense.
But the fact that I'm in serious doubt does say quite a lot about PH...
Yes, dementia is also my theory. The DRF/the court don´t know when he could start a new tantrum with "I want to be king", so better let him retire and enjoy life with family members, who´s willing to look after him. A sort of of a "Royal Retiring Home"
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  #308  
Old 02-21-2016, 08:26 AM
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I am glad he is seing his close family.

He was alone at his sister's Funerals.
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  #309  
Old 02-21-2016, 08:38 AM
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Henrik went cycling when in Egypt, didn't he, and reputedly met the Cardinal at the largest Coptic church in Alexandria. The month before (still in Egypt) he was presenting an award at the Danish Embassy in Cairo. All of which, if he was suffering from dementia, would be difficult to achieve one would think.
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  #310  
Old 02-21-2016, 08:50 AM
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Henrik went cycling when in Egypt, didn't he, and reputedly met the Cardinal at the largest Coptic church in Alexandria. The month before (still in Egypt) he was presenting an award at the Danish Embassy in Cairo. All of which, if he was suffering from dementia, would be difficult to achieve one would think.
Dementia comes slowly. It´s not that you wake up and have dementia.
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  #311  
Old 02-21-2016, 08:58 AM
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Dementia comes slowly. It´s not that you wake up and have dementia.
That's correct, but he certainly has not reached the stage where dementia is in fact slowing him down. I don't believe it's dementia at all. This is just PH being who he always was; look at how he ran off to France in a huff some years ago, this is not new behavior in the slightest. He's always been King Henrik in his own mind.
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  #312  
Old 02-21-2016, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
That's correct, but he certainly has not reached the stage where dementia is in fact slowing him down. I don't believe it's dementia at all. This is just PH being who he always was; look at how he ran off to France in a huff some years ago, this is not new behavior in the slightest. He's always been King Henrik in his own mind.
No, he´s not being slowed down by dementia yet - and perhaps never will be. My father had a aunt, who suffered from dementia, her memory wasn´t good at all. In the beginning it was small things like "where are my keys/wallet/glasses?" and she kept repeating that she would never go out without her "keys, wallet and glasses". In her last 2-3 years she couldn´t even remember my father - her one and only nephew.
But boy, could she run fast She could ran away from the care takers
So perhaps PH doesn´t and will not suffer physically from dementia, "only" memory/intellectual wise. And THAT I believe is something we see with his constant "I want to be king." The court can´t control him/his disease anymore. It´s been in the pipeline with the flu at QMII´s birthday as the drop that maked the glass run over.

Perhaps a better phrase is: Senile dementia
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  #313  
Old 02-21-2016, 10:19 AM
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As always please remember to stay respectful towards each other and the people you discuss. The latter applies both to Prince Henrik and the Danish people. Neither do we know anything about the reasons for Prince Henrik's retiring nor should we put a whole country under general suspicion. So let us stay respectful and on topic of this thread. Thank you!
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  #314  
Old 02-21-2016, 10:49 AM
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i think it's reasonable that if henrik is stepping down, he gets his allowance cut. after all, he would no longer need this money for his official appearances anymore, and most retirees take a cut in their salaries once they leave the workforce. it seems like a reasonable suggestion the danes are making.

on the other hand, i think it's harsh to say that 'henrik would die of jealousy when frederik rises to the throne'. implying that a father can be jealous of his own son is beyond ridiculous. i think no father would be unhappy to see his son succeed, even if 'success' in the case of frederik means taking a role he was destined to take from his craddle. henrik, like most parents, will certainly be happy once the moment comes and surely understands that his and frederik's role are different, despite earlier comments he made on that matter.
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  #315  
Old 02-21-2016, 11:56 AM
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Of course his allowance should be cut. If he's no longer going to do official duties why get an official allowance? If anyone else works less they get paid less so why not Henrik? Surely a 50% reduction would be fair?! (Well everyone else would agree apart from Henrik who probably sees it as compensation for not being King)
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  #316  
Old 02-21-2016, 12:19 PM
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Of course his allowance should be cut. If he's no longer going to do official duties why get an official allowance? If anyone else works less they get paid less so why not Henrik? Surely a 50% reduction would be fair?! (Well everyone else would agree apart from Henrik who probably sees it as compensation for not being King)
When PH was granted his own apanage, was the amount deducted from QM's apanage (so that the total sum was the same as before) or was his apanage an addition to the sum previously granted to the Regent couple?
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  #317  
Old 02-21-2016, 01:02 PM
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on the other hand, i think it's harsh to say that 'henrik would die of jealousy when frederik rises to the throne'. implying that a father can be jealous of his own son is beyond ridiculous. i think no father would be unhappy to see his son succeed, even if 'success' in the case of frederik means taking a role he was destined to take from his craddle. henrik, like most parents, will certainly be happy once the moment comes and surely understands that his and frederik's role are different, despite earlier comments he made on that matter.
But fact is that PH has made a tantrum about being overstepped by CPF.
I´m sure PH would be proud, but also jealous and I´m not sure that he could hide his jealousy :(

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When PH was granted his own apanage, was the amount deducted from QM's apanage (so that the total sum was the same as before) or was his apanage an addition to the sum previously granted to the Regent couple?
I can´t remember that, so let´s wait for Muhler
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  #318  
Old 02-21-2016, 01:17 PM
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Cutting Henrik's apanage doesn't seem unreasonable to me. After all, he will still enjoy the same lifestyle as before, he just won't be as visible. And he'll never have to worry about healthcare or having a roof over his head. If I were a Dane, I would be more upset about Alexandra's apanage than Henrik's. Yes, she should get an allowance for Nikolai and Felix, but her own should be minimal at best - just my opinion. Henrik, at least, is still a member of the royal family, Alexandra is not.
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  #319  
Old 02-21-2016, 01:35 PM
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Cutting Henrik's apanage doesn't seem unreasonable to me. After all, he will still enjoy the same lifestyle as before, he just won't be as visible. And he'll never have to worry about healthcare or having a roof over his head. If I were a Dane, I would be more upset about Alexandra's apanage than Henrik's. Yes, she should get an allowance for Nikolai and Felix, but her own should be minimal at best - just my opinion. Henrik, at least, is still a member of the royal family, Alexandra is not.
I think it´s a mix of these two reasons: Countess Alexandra still getting apanage for doing nothing and now also PH. But I agree it would be reasonable if the apanage for Countess Alexandra was to stop, when Prince Felix turns 18.

The apanage for PH should go (back?) to the Queen and/or CPF and CPssM, since they are the ones taking on the jobs for PH
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  #320  
Old 02-21-2016, 01:38 PM
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I can´t remember that, so let´s wait for Muhler
Originally QMII got the entire apanage and that also covered expenses for PH. I.e. a secretary, a valet, transportation and clothing. There is after all a limit to how big a personal staff he needs.
The adjutant and drivers were covered either by the court or the military.

Anyway, PH complained that he found it bit humiliating to have to go and ask his wife for money, whenever it was needed. He preferred his own funds. Okay, fair enough, so it was decided that 10 % of the total apanage would be earmarked for PH and from that he could pay whatever expenses he had and still has.
It's the same arrangement that exists for Mary BTW.

Whether PH let some of that money go back to the general upkeep of the court, or whether it is decided that he foots the bill for say paying the cleaners or whether he keeps the surplus, that's anyone's guess.

With now some 110 people being employed by the DRF (*), that would mean that PH would have a personal staff of no less then 11 employees and that I can't imagine. So some sort of joggling with the money must take place, otherwise I'd say PH is the most generously paid member of the DRF, QMII included!

(*) The personal staff of M&F and J&M excluded.
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