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  #241  
Old 01-14-2016, 12:47 PM
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well he is in good spirits
shame he will not accompany the Queen to Norway on Saturday

the socks and really the whole outfit is fantastic

added:
It looks like he will be joining the Queen tomorrow (i think at first it was only the Queen attending)
"The royal couple participating in the baroque orchestra Concerto Copenhagen's 25th anniversary.The Royal. Danish Academy of Music concert hall"
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  #242  
Old 01-14-2016, 02:25 PM
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On this chilly day with the snow being sticky PH hosted a hunt at Grib Forest near Fredensborg - wearing an interesting hat: VIDEO: Prins Henrik inviterede til jagt i sneen | BILLED-BLADET

And BT quotes his for saying that he is indeed enjoying his retirement: Prins Henriks første 'arbejdsdag': Jeg nyder min pension - Royale | www.bt.dk

Notice his socks!
The press is enjoying his retirement too...
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  #243  
Old 01-17-2016, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
On this chilly day with the snow being sticky PH hosted a hunt at Grib Forest near Fredensborg - wearing an interesting hat: VIDEO: Prins Henrik inviterede til jagt i sneen | BILLED-BLADET

And BT quotes his for saying that he is indeed enjoying his retirement: Prins Henriks første 'arbejdsdag': Jeg nyder min pension - Royale | www.bt.dk

Notice his socks!
Interesting video. I noted early on in the video, as he was talking to someone, they were arranging his scarf to more fully cover his chest. How familiar. Speaks to affection. Definitely a photo-op, a sort of role play going on, wouldn't you say?

Also, the video cuts so we do not see him exiting the carriage, but we do see the initial stages of him getting into the carriage. He is infirm methinks. How he got as far up to drive the carriage, I don't know, but it must have been a project. I think he's retired because of mobility issues. Makes sense, at his age.
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  #244  
Old 01-17-2016, 03:26 AM
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You may be right.

Its been a few years since he stopped shooting anything himself, so now he only send the hunters on their way and meet them again when the hunt ends.

It's a typical PH to do a show, by driving the carriage himself, but as you said he's getting too immobile to get into the seat. It was actually a quite pitiful to see him being helped.

And from what I could hear in the video, the journalists were supposed only to take photos and not ask questions. But it was BB's Trine Larsen (distinctive voice) who asked him, and he has a very good relationship with her.

There is one good thing about PH traveling, even if it sends out mixed signals; As long as he remains at least partially active, he's alive. If he became inactive he would be gone within a few months I suspect.
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  #245  
Old 01-17-2016, 03:49 AM
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I have not been one to follow the Prince, but I have greatly enjoyed reading this thread. The result is that I have watched the video. Some aspects popped out at me.

I must add something to the mobility issue: he does not look fully alert to me. I do not know the man, but I do follow Frederick and Mary. At the last family photo-op (that I think takes place in the palace gardens) I believe I saw indications that something was afoot. It had to do with the way the children were behaving around him, or removing themselves from around him. That is what I think I saw, though the video was (of course) tightly edited. Children have a way of reflecting the reality of a situation. I could be mistaken, of course.

Anyway, it seems to me that a very wise decision was made, however it was arrived at. With such public visibility, there is no graceful way to achieve a stepping down with an older person with a mind of their own. One can only imagine.
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  #246  
Old 01-17-2016, 04:20 AM
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In the cases of the late Queen Juliana of the Netherlands, Pope Benedictus XVI, King Albert II of the Belgians and King Juan Carlos of Spain it was (or became) clear that their health was a limitating factor in how they wanted to execute their (public) duties. The late Prince Claus of the Netherlands felt enforced due to -first mental, later also physical- illness to retreat largely from public events. The same with Crown Princess Masako of Japan.

Prince Henrik of Denmark possibly feels that his not so ascetic lifestyle and his advanced age are taking their toll. In ye olde days a consort (usually a female) simply remained at home, being the châtelaine of the house. In these days even a man in his eighties seems to have to 'defend' why he slows down... At the other hand: Pope Johannes Paulus II has shown that even a man, almost vegetating and sinking away in his robes, can cling to an Office until the last breath. For myself I prefer a retreat rather than seeing the Prinsgemalen supported by four footmen, trying to reach that seat-of-honour on that dais...
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  #247  
Old 01-17-2016, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The late Prince Claus of the Netherlands felt enforced due to -first mental, later also physical- illness to retreat largely from public events.
Well, if we must make comparisons, I don't think P.Claus ever officially retired (even though he wasn't seen much in his later years), but was very much hindered by his illnesses. As a dutch person I always felt that P.Claus was always very much interested in our country and involved as much as he could, even when he was ill he occasionally appeared in public and we all appreciated that very much.
The one thing that was never in any doubt was that Q.Beatrix and P.Claus were a great couple and always supported eachother very much; even though he himself would probably have chosen a different path in life if he had options, he did what he did for her and her job.

That interest in the country is maybe not felt as much by the danish with P.Henrik, and maybe (but this is my interpretation) this also influences some of the reactions to his retirement.

My personal opinion is that it is a good thing that royals (and popes) *can* retire if they themselves want to, but that they don't *have* to retire just because they reach a certain age.

And my other personal opinion is that comparisons to other people/royals and cultures are usually not helpful as situations in different countries are rarely the same, even in countries that are neighbours.

just my 2cts
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  #248  
Old 01-17-2016, 10:53 AM
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My personal opinion is that it is a good thing that royals (and popes) *can* retire if they themselves want to, but that they don't *have* to retire just because they reach a certain age.
Yes, I agree.

In the Pope's case, he is in the monarch position, meaning he cannot slow down to a degree of almost doing nothing without official notice that he either retires or somebody else will pick up his workload.

In Henrik's case, as consort, a retirement wouldn't have been necessary, he could just have done less to nothing without official note since nobody expects more from him in his position and at his age. That's why I believe that the decision wasn't entirely his but that his retirement was influenced by other people like his wife, family, politics.
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  #249  
Old 01-17-2016, 11:24 AM
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The difference with Prince Claus and Crown Princess Masako was that they simply ceased to appear in public, without having named it "retreat". They really were sometimes unable to attend the most important events, like New Year Courts, State Openings of Parliament, State Visits and National Days. In Prince Henrik's case it is "announced" but on itself I think it is not so strange that the Queen communicates with her people that the Consort is taking a step back. It is all not that dramatic.
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  #250  
Old 01-17-2016, 11:27 AM
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Princess Masako is not a Consort ans seems better now.

I refer the life that Prince Henrk has now than the pathetic life of Prince Claus.
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  #251  
Old 01-17-2016, 01:42 PM
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Yes, I agree.

In the Pope's case, he is in the monarch position, meaning he cannot slow down to a degree of almost doing nothing without official notice that he either retires or somebody else will pick up his workload.

In Henrik's case, as consort, a retirement wouldn't have been necessary, he could just have done less to nothing without official note since nobody expects more from him in his position and at his age. That's why I believe that the decision wasn't entirely his but that his retirement was influenced by other people like his wife, family, politics.
Exactly, because there were no questions raised in the public that he wasn't doing much work anymore. He is after all 81.
That he was say replaced by M&F at a state visit, because he couldn't handle it anymore, wouldn't have caused that many raised eyebrows. More likely it would have given him sympathy. (Which PH would have liked...)
But this sudden de facto total retirement raises questions.

Again today the tabloid BT raise the question of exactly why PH is retiring.

That's why I like to advocate my little pet-theory of dementia in some form and also why the DRF haven't given a reason.

A terminal cancer doesn't need a full retirement. PH would simply become more frail and fade away within a number of months.
And if they went public with the diagnosis he would be showered in sympathy whenever he showed himself.
But dementia at some stage. That is something I can understand not being made public. Since PH would be aware of his condition, at least for a period, the feeling of the press and public scrutinizing him to see when he is going completely gaga would no doubt be an uncomfortable thought. Even if it is with sympathetic eyes.

It would I imagine take a lot of guts to tell the public: "In a year or so, I can no longer remember what planet I'm on". Because that also means he has accepted and come to terms with his condition - and that's a big leap!

I have a feeling that if or when the DRF announce that PH is suffering from dementia, say in August, that will be when his condition has deteriorated to a stage when it no longer matters to him personally or his behavior is sometimes so erratic when he is out and about that an explanation is needed.
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  #252  
Old 01-17-2016, 03:09 PM
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Great explanation as always Muhler , great thanks and I agree with you totally
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  #253  
Old 01-17-2016, 03:42 PM
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But dementia at some stage. That is something I can understand not being made public. Since PH would be aware of his condition, at least for a period, the feeling of the press and public scrutinizing him to see when he is going completely gaga would no doubt be an uncomfortable thought. Even if it is with sympathetic eyes.

It would I imagine take a lot of guts to tell the public: "In a year or so, I can no longer remember what planet I'm on". Because that also means he has accepted and come to terms with his condition - and that's a big leap!

I have a feeling that if or when the DRF announce that PH is suffering from dementia, say in August, that will be when his condition has deteriorated to a stage when it no longer matters to him personally or his behavior is sometimes so erratic when he is out and about that an explanation is needed.
Muhler, this reminded me of Ronald Reagan. He said goodbye to the public with a letter a few months after he was diagnosed with dementia, at the age of 83.
We'll see what happens in the next months, if Henrik is seen out and about even more active in private activities than the royal activities he used to do.
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  #254  
Old 01-17-2016, 04:42 PM
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(snip)
But dementia at some stage. That is something I can understand not being made public. Since PH would be aware of his condition, at least for a period, the feeling of the press and public scrutinizing him to see when he is going completely gaga would no doubt be an uncomfortable thought. Even if it is with sympathetic eyes.

It would I imagine take a lot of guts to tell the public: "In a year or so, I can no longer remember what planet I'm on". Because that also means he has accepted and come to terms with his condition - and that's a big leap!

I have a feeling that if or when the DRF announce that PH is suffering from dementia, say in August, that will be when his condition has deteriorated to a stage when it no longer matters to him personally or his behavior is sometimes so erratic when he is out and about that an explanation is needed.
This makes perfect sense to me.

I consider that the stage immediately after diagnosis, when the afflicted person knows that there is something wrong with them but not what it is, or has been told and is not taking the news well, and the family is now aware of the reason for their loved one's strange behaviour and the reality of what the future holds, and is struggling to know how to handle it and what to say to them, and is essentially going through a form of grief because of the loss of their loved one as they knew him, the situation can be particularly distressing for everyone concerned. The family can find themselves having some very excruciatingly painful conversations with their loved one. It is not something you would want to go through with everyone in the country watching you.

I can well imagine that Queen Margrethe and the rest of the family would want to keep such news private as long as possible. They would not want Henrik happening upon a newspaper, or television report, discussing his condition. People who don't understand can be very unkind about dementia. Margrethe has her own health issues and I think it would be extremely and totally unnecessarily cruel to burden her further that way.

Dementia will inevitably progress to a stage where the person suffering from it is in a world of their own and his condition isn't causing him any stress because he is unaware. By then the family, though still immensely sad, can find it much easier to cope.
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  #255  
Old 01-17-2016, 04:50 PM
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I don't follow the DRF so am I right that we do not know the reason behind his withdrawal from public events? That we do not know that the reason is dementia?

V active thread today so thought maybe I'd missed something
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  #256  
Old 01-17-2016, 04:57 PM
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Exactly, because there were no questions raised in the public that he wasn't doing much work anymore. He is after all 81.
That he was say replaced by M&F at a state visit, because he couldn't handle it anymore, wouldn't have caused that many raised eyebrows. More likely it would have given him sympathy. (Which PH would have liked...)
But this sudden de facto total retirement raises questions.

Again today the tabloid BT raise the question of exactly why PH is retiring.

That's why I like to advocate my little pet-theory of dementia in some form and also why the DRF haven't given a reason.

A terminal cancer doesn't need a full retirement. PH would simply become more frail and fade away within a number of months.
And if they went public with the diagnosis he would be showered in sympathy whenever he showed himself.
But dementia at some stage. That is something I can understand not being made public. Since PH would be aware of his condition, at least for a period, the feeling of the press and public scrutinizing him to see when he is going completely gaga would no doubt be an uncomfortable thought. Even if it is with sympathetic eyes.

It would I imagine take a lot of guts to tell the public: "In a year or so, I can no longer remember what planet I'm on". Because that also means he has accepted and come to terms with his condition - and that's a big leap!

I have a feeling that if or when the DRF announce that PH is suffering from dementia, say in August, that will be when his condition has deteriorated to a stage when it no longer matters to him personally or his behavior is sometimes so erratic when he is out and about that an explanation is needed.
Something like dementia or another progressive illness would explain what seemed to me to be an unusually dramatic announcement on the part of Queen Margrethe. The DRF is generally low key and announcing things that are quite natural and don't require explanation isn't usually their style. That's a strategy that's worked quite well for them in the past. As you say, I doubt many Danes would think there was too much wrong with an 81 year old man simply not participating in as many events as he did when he was younger.. no explanation necessary.

If he's not ill and really is just stepping back due to fatigue or mobility issues I do wonder at the wisdom of the queen making an announcement like she did, in such a high profile setting. It seems to have made things needlessly complicated, (which admittedly seems to be a theme when it comes to Prince Henrik).
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  #257  
Old 01-17-2016, 05:15 PM
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I don't follow the DRF so am I right that we do not know the reason behind his withdrawal from public events? That we do not know that the reason is dementia?

V active thread today so thought maybe I'd missed something
I doubt more than an handful outside the DRF know the real reason behind PH retirement, hence all these theories being debated here in this thread.

Since anyone's guess is as good as anyone else's the prevailing theories right now go from a genuine retirement due to old age, to dementia or other illness to QMII "retiring PH out" because he has become an embarrassment or has had another fit, because he won't be king-consort.

An official retirement in the DRF is unheard of before.
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  #258  
Old 01-18-2016, 01:06 AM
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indeed, today's picture of 3 Scandinavian Queens and Two kings exactly underscores the would-be Danish king's point; no wonder he refused to go. The male ego is a wonder to behold:))


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  #259  
Old 01-18-2016, 04:38 AM
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Thing is, the other two queens are only queens consort. Margrethe ranks with the kings. How about we promote the idea that a monarch, regardless of gender, be known as king, and the consort, regardless of gender, be known as queen. Henrik could be Queen Henrik. I bet he'd jump at that!
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Old 01-18-2016, 04:50 AM
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Thing is, the other two queens are only queens consort. Margrethe ranks with the kings. How about we promote the idea that a monarch, regardless of gender, be known as king, and the consort, regardless of gender, be known as queen. Henrik could be Queen Henrik. I bet he'd jump at that!
Oh! I know how well that would go over.
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