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  #181  
Old 01-09-2016, 01:06 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
Before the retirement then: Is the man/woman married to the regent always nr 2 or the one who is second in line (Frederik).

If QM is unable to attend the next new years banquet or some gala for an incoming state visit, who is hosting the event, PH or CPF?
According to protocol when Margrethe and Henrik is at an official event, Henrik has the status of a Queen Consort as they are married and thus takes precedence over everyone except the Queen. If Margrethe is not there but Henrik and Frederik is, then Frederik as 1:st in line to the throne takes precedence. That was what caused Henrik to flee from Denmark in anger and dissapointment in 2002. He felt that he had to be his sons guest in his own house.

If Margrethe is unable to attend next year, Henrik will likely also be absent.

It's a question of protocol. That's why you'll never see Queen Silvia handle out the Nobel prices here in Sweden for example (although i think she would walk before Victoria in the procession). If the King can't attend, Victoria will take over his duties.

Don't think Silvia would flee to their summer house in France in anger and dissapointment over Such a thing �� haha
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  #182  
Old 01-09-2016, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
Before the retirement then: Is the man/woman married to the regent always nr 2 or the one who is second in line (Frederik).

If QM is unable to attend the next new years banquet or some gala for an incoming state visit, who is hosting the event, PH or CPF?
If the Queen is not available for an official event the regent at the moment would be the host/ess. If the event is important one would expect the Crown Prince to be in attendance and hosting. There was the famous incident a few years back when (according to the press) the Queen was not able to attend and the Crown Prince as the royal in the in line of succession and consequently the host. Prince Henrik was very put out by being "stepped over" and threw a fit and left the country. The comment in an earlier post of her traveling to another country most likely referred to this incident.

Prince Henrik may have been a great spouse and support for the Queen but he certainly has not added a positive image to the royal family. If his public persona is any indication, the comment about being "high maintenance" may be close to the truth.
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  #183  
Old 01-09-2016, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Hans-Rickard View Post
Don't think Silvia would flee to their summer house in France in anger and dissapointment over Such a thing �� haha
Maybe because she's not so sure that the King will travel after her to persuade her to get back. I don't think every monarch will do what Margrethe did, travel to Cayx and appease her husband's ego.
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  #184  
Old 01-09-2016, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Maybe because she's not so sure that the King will travel after her to persuade her to get back. I don't think every monarch will do what Margrethe did, travel to Cayx and appease her husband's ego.
But if there is any monarch in the world that would do that i am sure it is Carl Gustaf. He has stated many times during the years how much he loves her and how lonely he feels when he is alone at home.

And after all they have been trough during the recent years and still seems to be as strong couple as ever, i can't think of anything else than that they must be madly in love with each other. Just like Margrethe and Henrik.
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  #185  
Old 01-09-2016, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
Before the retirement then: Is the man/woman married to the regent always nr 2 or the one who is second in line (Frederik).

If QM is unable to attend the next new years banquet or some gala for an incoming state visit, who is hosting the event, PH or CPF?
It's a question of whether it's a state affair of a family affair..

In family affairs PH will remain number two, until the second Frederik becomes king. Then he becomes number three - after Mary.

In state affairs PH has no place, and nor has Mary for that matter, unless she is appointed Rigsforstander at some point.

It would be more correct (and simpler) to say that PH is currently number 1½, Mary is number 2½ and our Marie is number 3½.
Because in state affairs the spouse get the similar status as the one in the line of succession they are married to - at any given point. I.e. When Frederik is Regent Mary moves up to 1½, when QMII is in full working order, Mary moves down to 2½.

A really diabolic situation would be if M&F were joined by PH on an official visit abroad, because Frederik would act on behalf of QMII, and Mary has at any time similar status as her husband, soooo... If PH and Mary went solo on the visit, Mary would be the one to welcome first... But I need a couple of aspirins to think that thought to the end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I have a question in that respect - does PH still receive a salary, like Juan Carlos, and if so, do the Danes think that this ok although he doesnt work any longer?

I can't imagine that Henrik will vanish unter the radar, I think as soon as he starts living the sweet life the press will happily cover his activities.
I think you nailed it!

There are already many people saying: Fair enough that PH retires. But why then should he retain his apanage that is supposed to cover the expenses of a full-time working royal?
I think people could accept that say half his apanage was redistributed to QMII and M&F, since they are going to cover him.
But PH receiving full apanage and then being seen living the happy life as a retiree. That's not easy to defend!
It would be another matter if he was soon to require 24/7 care.
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  #186  
Old 01-09-2016, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
Before the retirement then: Is the man/woman married to the regent always nr 2 or the one who is second in line (Frederik).

If QM is unable to attend the next new years banquet or some gala for an incoming state visit, who is hosting the event, PH or CPF?
Imo, we already see Frederik being number 2.
During official or state visits to Denmark, we have seen Frederik playing host to the president or head if state in the majority of events. Besides the receptions and dinners, where the Queen was host. Frederik was the one with the visiting guest.
In other monarchies , for example Norway and Sweden it's still the King and Queen but I've noticed in Denmark Frederik with Mary taking over,
Just my observation.

Seeing Henrik in Naples, I'll say he looks in good health so maybe it was a suggested retirement for him
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  #187  
Old 01-09-2016, 04:38 PM
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It's been interesting reading people's comments on the issue of who is 2IC now. I would have thought there would be no doubt that in purely private and family matters, Henrik would be joint No. 1 rather than No. 2, but that in state/official matters, it would be Margrethe 1, Frederik 2. Henrik has no official position in state matters, so he could never be No. 2 at that level. As consort he was only Margrethe's "plus 1", deriving his status solely from his relationship to her, and in her absence he had no status. (Which is what I think he was bleating about for so many years.) So Frederik would host any state events in his mother's absence, however he would not be marching into his parents' home and usurping his father's role as host of any private events should Margrethe not be in attendance.

And let's just hope that Henrik and Mary never are charged with the task of attending any function together without their spouses present. Or at least make sure there is full video coverage of it so we can all enjoy it.
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  #188  
Old 01-09-2016, 05:02 PM
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Well, obviously not knowing PH, but what I have read I think I would say that he is/was high maintenance emotionally rather than financially (though possibly that as well).
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  #189  
Old 01-09-2016, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
I think you nailed it!

There are already many people saying: Fair enough that PH retires. But why then should he retain his apanage that is supposed to cover the expenses of a full-time working royal?
I think people could accept that say half his apanage was redistributed to QMII and M&F, since they are going to cover him.
But PH receiving full apanage and then being seen living the happy life as a retiree. That's not easy to defend!
It would be another matter if he was soon to require 24/7 care.
Perhaps Denmark will eventually use the same system for apanage that Sweden does. The King gets a certain amount and out of these funds the whole family shares depending on needs as the King and his staff decides.

The idea that individual people are paid separately does not make sense. The Queen is the head of the royal family and it is her job that the rest of the family carries out. Even if they are carving out their own "careers" without the Queen as the royal regent there would not be a need for them.
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  #190  
Old 01-10-2016, 02:59 AM
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I have a feeling that the reason why the apanage is individual is to avoid family feuds over who gets how much. - Especially if the king has a "very close and loving relationship with money" and as such is reluctant to part with them...

And also to avoid the crown prince to have to come "begging" for more funds. - Not least of the king and the crown prince has a bad relationship.

And we must not forget the PH complained long and hard about having to "ask his wife for money".

- Who knows? It might be contagious. One day we may see Daniel tear off his tie and run off to Öland and complain that he always has to ask Victoria for money whenever he wish to buy a new suit. - To supplement his other 107 identical suits. (Sorry, couldn't resist ).
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  #191  
Old 01-10-2016, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grevinnan View Post
[...]
The idea that individual people are paid separately does not make sense. The Queen is the head of the royal family and it is her job that the rest of the family carries out. Even if they are carving out their own "careers" without the Queen as the royal regent there would not be a need for them.
The fact that Prince Henrik's namesake and colleague Henrich Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (by marriage Prince of the Netherlands) had to rely on his dominating spouse, even for just buying things or having pocket money, fuelled to the feeling of what he once stated with the quote: "Ich bin nur das Gepäck" ("I am just the luggage").

When the idea is that core members of the Royal House must be able to exploit their talents and personalities, and at the same time it is seen as "undesirable" that there is a dependency on third parties (being paid by a company, for an example) then the best solution is to give each the most core royals (the present, the former and the future Sovereign, and their spouses) an individual income plus a budget for costs and staffing.

When Prince Henrik's colleague Prince Claus of the Netherlands became ill and largely disappeared from the royal scène between 1982 and 2004, there were no any calls to end his income. This income for a Consort to the King was (and is) fixed by law and is no "prestation contract". After all: these core royals do not get allowances or benefits for unemployment, sick leave, disabilities, they even do not get a pension.

Imagine that Henrik, now half a century married to Margrethe, had to hold his hand up by his wife, all the time. And when he says: "No way! I want to earn my own income! I search for a position, for an example in a Board of a company!" then the reaction is: "No, it is undesirable that the Consort of Her Majesty The Queen is in a dependent relationship to third parties", meaning that he indeed must feel like a prisoner in a golden cage. Solution: give the Consort his/her independent role and provide means and staffing to make this possible.

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  #192  
Old 01-10-2016, 06:08 AM
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The DK press follow PH these days, now that he has retired, and this article would normally belong in another thread but because of one particular detail, I've decided to put it here.
Henrik blev tituleret som konge - og bestilte mærkværdig figur af sig selv - Royale | www.bt.dk

PH visited the shop of artisan and artist Marco Giuseppe Ferrigno, in Naples.
Here he commissioned a figure of himself carved in wood, where he is a shepherd. The figure will be 40 centimeters high.
He also bought a number of figures for a nativity scene - they are around 20 cm high.

Ferrigno says about PH: "He was very open, very democratic in the best definition of the word. And we were all to take pictures with him. He seems like a very kind/friendly person. When you talk about regents, you often thing they are reserved but he was very amiable".

PH was presented and apparently addressed as king. Because Ferrigno afterwards wrote on Facebook that he had been visited by the Danish king.

Ferrigno explains: "It was the interpreter who said it. I didn't know his title was Prince".
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  #193  
Old 01-10-2016, 06:57 AM
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Danish king? Oh oh. He's not retiring without a fight
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  #194  
Old 01-10-2016, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
The DK press follow PH these days, now that he has retired, and this article would normally belong in another thread but because of one particular detail, I've decided to put it here.
Henrik blev tituleret som konge - og bestilte mærkværdig figur af sig selv - Royale | www.bt.dk

PH visited the shop of artisan and artist Marco Giuseppe Ferrigno, in Naples.
Here he commissioned a figure of himself carved in wood, where he is a shepherd. The figure will be 40 centimeters high.
He also bought a number of figures for a nativity scene - they are around 20 cm high.

Ferrigno says about PH: "He was very open, very democratic in the best definition of the word. And we were all to take pictures with him. He seems like a very kind/friendly person. When you talk about regents, you often thing they are reserved but he was very amiable".

PH was presented and apparently addressed as king. Because Ferrigno afterwards wrote on Facebook that he had been visited by the Danish king.

Ferrigno explains: "It was the interpreter who said it. I didn't know his title was Prince".
at least he managed to convince his interpreter that he is a King! And there is a world outside Denmark that will believe it!!
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  #195  
Old 01-10-2016, 11:57 AM
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What absolute nonsense!!! "King" Henrik is really living in a dream world or a parallel universe of his own making! More and more, I am beginning to think that his "retirement" was because he did not get his own way of becoming King Consort!!! Maybe the Queen and the Government put their foots down and told him that it would never happen!!

Muhler...Prince Henrik does not look frail and sick to me!!! Over the next months, we shall surely see Prince Henrik enjoying himself travelling all over the world and still getting his Danish state income as if he is still a full time working royal!

I predict that Prince Henrik will face more criticism if this continues.

Right now, the Danish taxpayer is supporting an ex-princess and a prince consort who has retired, appears healthy but will still get his full apanage. I wonder if the Danish taxpayer will remain as supportive of the monarchy as they have been if this continues.
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  #196  
Old 01-10-2016, 12:08 PM
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Let's not jump to conclusions too quickly... bad health doesn't necessarily have to mean physical health (even though officially this might not be said)
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  #197  
Old 01-10-2016, 12:19 PM
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Or going loco...

My pet-theory at present is still a kind of dementia.

The interesting thing is what would happen should it ever become necessary to restrict PH's movements.
Normally that requires a court ruling saying that so and so is no longer able to care for himself and that's a big step! (Even residents from retirement homes running away cannot be held back physically. That's considered violence). Then a legal guardian is appointed.
But the DRF has legal immunity and if any sanctions needs to be taken against a member of the DRF, like declaring them legally unable to look after themselves, it is actually only the Monarch who can authorize it. And it's only the Monarch who authorize a member of the DRF being locked up and if need be physically restrained from leaving say Fredensborg Palace.
I guess QMII would act on advice from doctors but it will be QMII alone who can authorize the setting up a makeshift ward at Fredensborg where PH can live the rest of his life. Once he becomes too erratic in his behavior to be allowed to run around lose.
- Presuming of course that I'm right in my little theory.
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  #198  
Old 01-10-2016, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Terri Terri View Post
[....]
Right now, the Danish taxpayer is supporting an ex-princess and a prince consort who has retired, appears healthy but will still get his full apanage. I wonder if the Danish taxpayer will remain as supportive of the monarchy as they have been if this continues.
Note that the present, the future and the former King and their spouses (widows/widowers) are denied the freedom any Dane has: to earn their own living. In all monarchies it is considered undesirable when the present, the future and the former King and their spouses (widows/widowers) are in a dependant relation to third parties.

So there is no chance that Prince Henrik could have a job at Bang & Olufsen or that Crown Prince Frederik earns a salary from Maersk. Also in contrary to every Dane these royals do not have the right on income or benefits on ground of unemployment, sick leave, pregnancy leave, disabilities or even have the right on a pension.

In return for this quite severe denial of the freedom of these individuals, the State grants an apanage which enables them to live according their royal status and rank, as might be expected from a royal family in Europe's oldest monarchy and without any dependance on third parties. That is the "contract" between the State of Denmark and the family Slesvig-Holsten-Sønderborg-Glücksborg. Prince Henrik, now into his eighties (!), slows down. That is more than 15 years later than the current official age of retirement which is in force in Danmark...
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  #199  
Old 01-10-2016, 12:42 PM
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I take your point in regards to Prince Henrik. At least he has retired at 81 years old! Countess Alexandra on the other hand... is another matter! But that is another topic and is not relevant to this matter regarding Prince Henrik's retirement.
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  #200  
Old 01-10-2016, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
I have a feeling that the reason why the apanage is individual is to avoid family feuds over who gets how much. - Especially if the king has a "very close and loving relationship with money" and as such is reluctant to part with them...

And also to avoid the crown prince to have to come "begging" for more funds. - Not least of the king and the crown prince has a bad relationship.

And we must not forget the PH complained long and hard about having to "ask his wife for money".

- Who knows? It might be contagious. One day we may see Daniel tear off his tie and run off to Öland and complain that he always has to ask Victoria for money whenever he wish to buy a new suit. - To supplement his other 107 identical suits. (Sorry, couldn't resist ).
Next time please resist. Juvenile type comments do not usually belong on sites where presumably adults discuss matters of interest.
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