Prince Henrik: "I Should Be King" Discussion

[MARG]

I don't believe I am saying this, but I believe Henrik's blathering is symptomatic of a fear of outliving his wife. Where would he be then? It would be up to Frederik and Mary to create an illusion that his position within the family remained the same or I believe there would be a very public and hurtful falling out.

Frederik and, to a lesser degree Mary, know him as a loved father and grandfather regardless of his eccentricities.

Prince Philip is not as docile as people like to make out. He has always been a man of great dignity and yet he has always been bitter about the fact that he is the only man in the UK that cannot hand on his name to his children.

The family are all known as Mountbatten-Windsor and, when you think of the total lack of history or even reality around the House of Windsor, I can understand why Prince Philip feels that way.

ps: While William and Harry were young they were tagged Wales. However, that was merely a convenience.

 

[grevinnan]

The issue with Prince Henrik is his way of discussing the issue. He should talk it over with the Queen and if that is not working to his satisfaction then he should consider what his options are. Bringing it out in the open is simply just childish and puts him in a very poor light.

He is, as the saying goes...Barking up the wrong tree.

Henrik is not asking to rule by right of his wife or to be above her in rank. He is just arguing he should hold the same rank for example as Maxima, which is faiir and a reasonable demand.

No matter what you guys say, Henrik is below Maxima when the latter is styled Majesty and foreign HRHs curtsy to her while they don't to the former.

As for the argument that the word King necessarily means a sovereign, i suppose that a society that was able to redefine the meaning of a concept as old as marriage (no lionger a union between a man and a woman) shouldn't find it difficult to incorporate the concept of King consort in its dictionary.

So you have any examples of foreign royals curtsying to Queen Margarethe but not to Prince Henrik. His own children certainly do.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

King Ferdinand II of Portugal, née Sachsen-Coburg-Saalfeld, was very much an active partner to his wife Queen Maria II and even ruled in her absence during her many pregnancies. He was also a regent for their son King Pedro V 1853-1855 after the death of his wife. All in all he was a very capable and popular King consort who made the best out of his position without trying to upstage the monarch, his wife, who in turn trusted his advice and leaned on him in the day to day running of the country.

I think Ish was speaking of a consort becoming the true sovereign, holding more power than his spouse. Queens consort too have ruled as regents while their husbands were absent or dead, or even been active partners to their husbands, without usurping them.

 

[camelot23ca]

Henrik is at it again!

He's been blessed with a healthy and loving family, social prominence, wealth, the opportunity to do meaningful work and to experience things the majority of people can only imagine. And yet none of those things seem to have given him a sense of perspective on this issue.

I've always thought Henrik seemed like an interesting man with a lot of natural talents, but equally he strikes me as one of those people who always have to make things complicated. I'm sure most of us know someone like that in real life - if there's no problem immediately at hand then they'll go looking for one.

 

[hernameispekka]

The issue with Prince Henrik is his way of discussing the issue. He should talk it over with the Queen and if that is not working to his satisfaction then he should consider what his options are. Bringing it out in the open is simply just childish and puts him in a very poor light.

He is, as the saying goes...Barking up the wrong tree.

Exactly! I think most people see that there is a little issue in how to title the male consorts, and it's a thing the monarchies are trying to figure out, as they should. But he's acting like a toddler who can't have a popsicle. It's just ridiculous. It has nothing to do with if he's right or not (and NO he's not right in that he should be a King that has a higher standing. The Majesty part though....) and has all to do with the sillyness and the entitlement it shows for a person to complain about that..

 

[Muhler]

QMII cannot propose a bill for changing the Constitution. Anything that requires something from the Parliament goes through the government. Even if any of the 179 MP's can propose a bill on her behalf.

There is no way the government is to propose a change in the Constitution on this issue. And while I won't rule out that a handful of the 179 MP's support PH I can't name a single one. Not even among the Conservatives.

QMII is in principle free to bestow (or take away!) any title within the DRF. Except for that of the Crown Prince.
However, there are a number of titles QMII cannot bestow, because they have a clearly defined Constitutional function.
They are:
King, Monarch, Crown Prince, Regent and Rigsforstander (Rigsforstander is really a temporary appointment rather than a title).

But, no matter what title QMII could come up with, it will not change the fact that PH does not and will not have a (permanent) Constitutional role.
Even if she gave him a title as emperor or vice-king or vice-Roy it will be an empty title.

If the Monarch is ill, incapacitated or abroad, the Crown Prince automatically becomes Regent, unless he too is ill, incapacitated or abroad.
In that case a Rigsforstander is appointed by QMII - or the Regent.
There is no role for PH in this context.

When he had his fit and ran off to France some ten-fifteen years ago it started out at the New Year Courts. PH was granted the cutesy of welcoming the guests on behalf of the family, but Frederik addressed the guests on behalf of the head of state in his Constitutional role. - That meant that PH, in his own words, was demoted to number three. But Constitutionally speaking he has never been number two, nor number three or number ninety-nine for that matter.

Nevertheless QMII does have one option of circumnavigating this.
The next time she and Frederik are abroad at the same time, there is nothing to hinder her from appointing PH as Rigsforstander rather than Joachim or Benedikte.
And that will be the closest thing PH can possibly come to being equal to QMII.

 

[JR76]

Very true, I was wrong when I tried to portray Pedro III and Fernando II as the same kind of consorts. They were not.



We can say Maria II and Fernando II ruled together, but never that he ruled in his wife's place. That said, Queen Maria II was a very hands on Sovereign.

I think Ish was speaking of a consort becoming the true sovereign, holding more power than his spouse. Queens consort too have ruled as regents while their husbands were absent or dead, or even been active partners to their husbands, without usurping them.

I'm sorry if my post stepped on anyone's toes. It was meant neither as a correction or a criticism of what others have posted but more as information about a couple I happened to read about just a few days ago


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[Moonmaiden23]

Prince Henrik used to be good for a giggle every now and then but I am beginning to find him truly tiresome. He should have thought long and hard before signing away his identity to become Prince Consort of Denmark but what's done is done. And instead of making the best of things and being an invaluable asset as the duke of Edinburgh has done, he continues to whinge and embarrass his wife and family with these childish outbursts.

I feel badly for Margrethe and Frederik and the Danes.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I'm sorry if my post stepped on anyone's toes. It was meant neither as a correction or a criticism of what others have posted but more as information about a couple I happened to read about just a few days ago


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Certainly not mine, and I hope I did not offend either. (Maria and Fernando were an interesting couple, I agree.)

 

[jjkg]

I don't believe I am saying this, but I believe Henrik's blathering is symptomatic of a fear of outliving his wife. Where would he be then? It would be up to Frederik and Mary to create an illusion that his position within the family remained the same or I believe there would be a very public and hurtful falling out.

Frederik and, to a lesser degree Mary, know him as a loved father and grandfather regardless of his eccentricities.

Prince Philip is not as docile as people like to make out. He has always been a man of great dignity and yet he has always been bitter about the fact that he is the only man in the UK that cannot hand on his name to his children.

The family are all known as Mountbatten-Windsor and, when you think of the total lack of history or even reality around the House of Windsor, I can understand why Prince Philip feels that way.

ps: While William and Harry were young they were tagged Wales. However, that was merely a convenience.

OT, but isn't Mountbatten Prince Phillip's mother's name (Princess Alice)? And wasn't Prince Phillip given this name after he was cared for by the Mountbatten side of family? and isn't Mountbatten itself a madeup derivative from German (I think Battenberg?) and was adopted by his maternal grandfather?

I respect Prince Phillip more for how he has defined himself, but I find his name issue ironic. My personal read was that it was more of an issue with Lord Louis Mountbatten and he had ambition to see the future monarchs be Mountbattens.

 

[JR76]

OT, but isn't Mountbatten Prince Phillip's mother's name (Princess Alice)? And wasn't Prince Phillip given this name after he was cared for by the Mountbatten side of family? and isn't Mountbatten itself a madeup derivative from German (I think Battenberg?) and was adopted by his maternal grandfather?



I respect Prince Phillip more for how he has defined himself, but I find his name issue ironic. My personal read was that it was more of an issue with Lord Louis Mountbatten and he had ambition to see the future monarchs be Mountbattens.

Alice married years before her father and siblings adopted the name Mountbatten so it never was her name.
Regarding Louis Mountbatten I think the whole issue has to do with the horrible way his father was treated by the British media during WWI and how he had to give up name and title because of the xenophobic sentiments prevailing at the time. His daughters have stated in interviews how he took it very hard, harder even than his parents did. Name, title, status lost all he had was his new name.


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[Roskilde]

I simply don't understand Henrik goes on and on with this... He destroys it for himself again and again. When he finally beginning to gain a little popularity among the Danes (including me) he makes sure to destroy it with his complaints and whining.

I've looked through countless comments from the Danes on Facebook.
The message is clear and the same! The Danes do not want Henrik as King. Not at all actually. And only less and less the more and more he whining. It's a shame. For himself (for not to mention Margrethe I think)

Reading this thread: https://www.facebook.com/ditbt/posts/1240730332620849
We see a lot of the 'most liked' comments sounds very similar: No way, let Frederik and Mary take over. The next rightful King to Denmark is Frederik.

We can see people write:
"Damn no! Henrik must be stopped now. Margrethe must abdicate and let Frederik and Mary take over so there can be stability in the royal family."

Henrik is an older man now and where we used to maybe laughed a little with him, I think people are starting to get really tired.

He is a highly privileged man with wife and lovely children and grandchildren. Why not enjoy life? He has raised a son who is highly popular and loved by the Danish people to take over as King. Why not beam with pride over it? To complain again and again of a title can be seen pitiful compared to the world's current problems.

 

[Princess of Durham]

In a word ........ TIRESOME!

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

He's at it again, this topic seems too important to him and he can't let go... hopefully when he draws the final conclusion about his life, he will be able to focus on his family and not on his status.

IMO no male consort bears HM but only HRH. I agree that there is no equality but IMO the female consorts should rather be called 'Princess' and not the male consorts 'King' in order the have equality.

Just imagine the DoE would have started this discussion ... but thankfully he's above that.

 

[Cris M]

I'm sorry if my post stepped on anyone's toes. It was meant neither as a correction or a criticism of what others have posted but more as information about a couple I happened to read about just a few days ago


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You have nothing to apologise for, JR76!

 

[Muhler]

Derfor bliver prins Henrik ved med at brokke sig: Han har haft held med det før - Royale | www.bt.dk

There is an interesting article in BT today about why PH is complaining. - Because it works.

He started in 1984 about complaining that he did not get his own apanage at the time.
He explained in a book in 1996, where he said: "As a fifty year old I was tormented by a need for no more having to ask my wife for money for cigarettes. For sure I wasn't in need of anything, but I didn't control my own budget".
The government (and the public) at the time thought that was reasonable and granted him his personal share of the apanage to the DRF.
PH added in the 1996 book: "The justification in my demand made an impression on the PM at the time, who hurried in settling the matter with the Parliament's spontanous approval. - The disposition BTW made no critique in the population and even less in the press that to a wide extent voiced the same opinion".
In 2009 he added: "Twelve years after QMII taking over the throne the government acknowledged and audited my existence by allowing me an apanage".

According to the French journalist, Slim Allagui, that success bloodied PH's teeth and he has repeatedly tried to press for a change since then.
"When they (the Parliament) changed the rules for the apanage, they might change the rules again. That's why he brings it up, each time he sees an opportunity for it - even if he harbors very little hope for the situation to change".

- When he ran off to France he embarrassed his family but he got "promoted" to Prince Consort. So that worked too.

Politikere ryster på hovedet af kongedrøm: Den går ikke, Henrik - Royale | www.bt.dk
The response from the politicians is a: no, forget it, won't happen, too trivial an issue, won't make a difference anyway, what's the difference?
And finally this encouragement from Socialist People's Party (no they are not that socialist, more like left wing Social Democrats): "If gender egality is something that occupy the Prince Consort's mind, I hope to hear him also speak out on other problems regarding gender equality than those that affect himself".

- As has been pointed out here. Each time PH gains popularity, he spoils it all by coming up with the issue. Titles isn't a big deal here in DK, for this very simple reason: titles don't pay the bills.

As has also been pointed out here PH is basically jealous of his oldest son. Because he sees himself as the patriarch of the family, regardless of the fact that his family is not ordinary.
As a father myself PH's view is almost incomprehensible to me. In DK the aim is to bring up our children to become independent of ourselves, the sooner the better. You look at your son/daughter with pride when they have become independent. They have succeeded - you have succeeded as a parent.
You look forward to the day when your children have become established and you look at each other as equals.

The concept of a patriarch (or matriarch) sitting on the "family-throne" is very unusual in DK.
And personally I simply don't understand it.
I hope my children will respect me and show me respect when they are fully grown, not because I'm their dad or because they owe it to me because I brought them up, but because they respect me as a person.

 

[Nordic]

As has also been pointed out here PH is basically jealous of his oldest son. Because he sees himself as the patriarch of the family, regardless of the fact that his family is not ordinary.

I ought to know this, but what happens if Frederik becomes King Frederik when PH is still "around"?
Would PH, after that, be nr 3 in Denmark? And how would he handle that?

 

[Muhler]

I ought to know this, but what happens if Frederik becomes King Frederik when PH is still "around"?
Would PH, after that, be nr 3 in Denmark? And how would he handle that?

Constitutionally, administratively and publicly Frederik will become the head of the family the second QMII dies.
I cannot imagine Frederik ever expecting PH to bow to him or Mary, because that's not how they do it in the DRF, but M&F will walk in front PH will follow behind. As a courtesy no doubt IMO right behind M&F and before Christian, should PH live long enough.

I sincerely hope PH will not make an issue of it.
Imagine Frederik on top of having lost his mother, having to find his footing in a new job, also has to deal with a jealous father!
It would perhaps be wiser if PH relocate to Cayx, there at least he can still be the patriarch. - And his family can come visiting - hopefully because they want to and not because they feel they are obliged to.
You reap what you sow...

 

[Mbruno]

T
The Infantas de España however did curtsey to Prince Claus, so it differs from country to country.

Did they ? In the video below (from 1985), they curtsy to Queen Beatrix only, and not to Claus.


https://youtu.be/y40vlEEpH8s?t=191

Note, however, how Letizia, then Princess of Asturias , curtsies to Máxima.


https://youtu.be/51hVDtiX2dA?t=66


I hate to say that, but Henrik has a point : why should he have a lower rank than Máxima when they are both the consort of a sovereign ?

More examples of gender inequality below.

1) Princess Diana and Princess Anne curtsy to Queen Beatrix, but not to Prince Claus.

https://youtu.be/EgFOxxKsZm8?t=24

2) However, see in the picture below how Princess Diana curtsies to Queen Sofia.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c3/24/2b/c3242b889d01ed06fe9fc3e16ef3a58e.jpg


Again, why should Prince Claus rank lower than Queen Sofia just because he happens to be male ?

 

[grevinnan]

The best solution to this issue is to make spouses to a reining monarch Prince/Princess Consort. I just can not imagine Prince Henrik or for that matter Prince Daniel or Prince Philip (D of E) being called King. We are just more familiar with a Queen being a spouse of a reigning King although there have been and will be reigning Queens.

 

[Skippyboo]

Forget the consorts, bow or curtesy to the monarch only if you are a Royal.

Monarchy is not about equality. If he keeps complaining about equality, then the most equal act would be to have a head of state elected by all of the people not a hereditary monarchy.


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[Queen Claude]

Henrik is right male consorts are discriminated against vis a vis female consorts, but I don't think him complaining about it is going to bring about a change in his status, perhaps it will spark a discussion that will affect the status of future consorts, but will it be female consorts peaking at Princess/HRH* or male consorts being elevated to King/HM?

Right or wrong it is just poor form for Henrik to be so publicly worked up over this. I was prepared to cut him some slack and say that he was just answering a reporter's question, but then people who know him said that it really is an ongoing sore point with him. I had the same question that was raised in an article that was posted, and that is does Henrik have a history of gender equality activism?

For most of Henrik's life male privilege was status quo, he just happened to marry into that one of the few circumstances where being a male was not the most advantageous position. Nevertheless he was born into and married into the most rarefied levels of material privilege and status and there are many, many more injustices that take precedent over the one he has experienced.

* I wonder how that will affect how Crown Princesses are styled when their husbands become King.

ETA:
Also, and I know this sounds harsh, but my impression is that Henrik has been a perfectly fine Prince Consort, but he has not done anything extraordinary in the role. I don't fault him for that since Denmark has experience peace and prosperity for the better part of Margrethe reign but it is not like you can point to extraordinary acts like those performed by royal consorts Elizabeth and Ingrid during World War II. Now when some megalomaniac refers to Henrik as "the most dangerous man Europe" then we can talk.

 

[sandratatiana]

If he wants to be King, then he should probably learn to speark Danish first, sorry for saying it!

 

[tommy100]

I think, IMO is fair for their to be discussion about whether its right or not that a male consort ranks lower than a female consort (or at least appears to when you look at curtsying/bowing etc). However, I find it ridiculous for Henrik to complain about something which he knew was going to happen when he married Margrethe. Its not as if there have been changes to the constitution after their marriage which have brought about this situation, its what he knew would be the case when he married an heir to the throne so why moan on and on about it an embarrass his wife and his country like this.

 

[Rudolph]

It almost sounds like he wants to be co-sovereign. As Muhler pointed out Henrik has no constitutional position which really seems to be what's irking him.

No matter what title he is given (King-Consort) it would be a title in name only with no constitutional authority.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

Henrik is at it again!

He's been blessed with a healthy and loving family, social prominence, wealth, the opportunity to do meaningful work and to experience things the majority of people can only imagine. And yet none of those things seem to have given him a sense of perspective on this issue.

I've always thought Henrik seemed like an interesting man with a lot of natural talents, but equally he strikes me as one of those people who always have to make things complicated. I'm sure most of us know someone like that in real life - if there's no problem immediately at hand then they'll go looking for one.

I agree. He just has to face up to the fact that he's most likely never going to be "upgraded" to King and let this subject go. And as you have said, isn't it enough to have a very high and privileged role in society and a loving family? If I were in his position those aspects of my life would be more important than a title.

 

[Muhler]

The IMO frustrating thing about PH's complaints is that's about such trivial details.

PH is talking about equality within an institution that is based on inequality. The whole idea about having a monarch is that the monarch is above everybody else.
That alone leaves my head buzzing.

No matter what title he has, he still holds the formally speaking second highest position in DK as long as QMII is alive. He can't go any higher! So what's the problem?

If we compare PH and Mary in her future role, there will, as far as I can tell, be only two differences between them.
Mary will be titled queen and be addressed as majesty. - That's it.
Apart from that there will be no difference between them at all.

Mary will not have a Constitutional role either.
She will hold the second highest position in the country.
She will never be equal to her husband.
Should Frederik become ill during a New Year Court, she will probably address the guests on behalf of the family, while her son Christian, whom she hopefully isn't jealous on, will address the guests on behalf of the head of state.

Should Frederik die before Mary, Mary will have to walk behind Christian and his wife one day.

The difference between being titled a queen and a prince consort is comparable to calling a street-sweeper a Road Sanitation Technician - but he still sweeps the streets...

 

[suztav]

The IMO frustrating thing about PH's complaints is that's about such trivial details.

PH is talking about equality within an institution that is based on inequality. The whole idea about having a monarch is that the monarch is above everybody else.
That alone leaves my head buzzing.

No matter what title he has, he still holds the formally speaking second highest position in DK as long as QMII is alive. He can't go any higher! So what's the problem?

If we compare PH and Mary in her future role, there will, as far as I can tell, be only two differences between them.
Mary will be titled queen and be addressed as majesty. - That's it.
Apart from that there will be no difference between them at all.

Mary will not have a Constitutional role either.
She will hold the second highest position in the country.
She will never be equal to her husband.
Should Frederik become ill during a New Year Court, she will probably address the guests on behalf of the family, while her son Christian, whom she hopefully isn't jealous on, will address the guests on behalf of the head of state.

Should Frederik die before Mary, Mary will have to walk behind Christian and his wife one day.

The difference between being titled a queen and a prince consort is comparable to calling a street-sweeper a Road Sanitation Technician - but he still sweeps the streets...

I agree with you, Muhler. The entire system is a bit wacky --- but, it's a monarchy not a democracy! Henrik has a point --- the system is sexist. No doubt! But, enough already -- get over it! You knew this when you married into it ... there is no surprise here.

If you want to be equal ... well, marry Daisy Q. Public -- you can be as equal as the rest of us (and pay taxes, too!)

 

[grevinnan]

The IMO frustrating thing about PH's complaints is that's about such trivial details.

PH is talking about equality within an institution that is based on inequality. The whole idea about having a monarch is that the monarch is above everybody else.
That alone leaves my head buzzing.

No matter what title he has, he still holds the formally speaking second highest position in DK as long as QMII is alive. He can't go any higher! So what's the problem?

If we compare PH and Mary in her future role, there will, as far as I can tell, be only two differences between them.
Mary will be titled queen and be addressed as majesty. - That's it.
Apart from that there will be no difference between them at all.

Mary will not have a Constitutional role either.
She will hold the second highest position in the country.
She will never be equal to her husband.
Should Frederik become ill during a New Year Court, she will probably address the guests on behalf of the family, while her son Christian, whom she hopefully isn't jealous on, will address the guests on behalf of the head of state.

Should Frederik die before Mary, Mary will have to walk behind Christian and his wife one day.

The difference between being titled a queen and a prince consort is comparable to calling a street-sweeper a Road Sanitation Technician - but he still sweeps the streets...

If Prince Henrik had approached the issue as an inequality in general and not whined about that he is not titled King he may have been able to make people listen to him. There is an inequality in the way the spouses are titled but the Prince's whining will not help the issue.

 

[dazzling]

I dont think he is thinking right, by the fuss he has created, he is damaging the royal family.
Moreover, could this lead to a reason for the Queen to step down so it stops the embarrassment?