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  #141  
Old 10-16-2015, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Philip II was a king in his own right ALREADY..and the reason for giving him that title in England was solely that this country had NEVER experienced a Queen Regnant, and [given the erronious preception that a Woman could not make a good job of being a monarch] it was though she MUST have a man to 'manage her'.. We know BETTER !
And you are wrong Mbruno.. Queen Anne's husband was known as 'the Prince of Denmark', not as king.. well before Queen Victoria and Prince Albert, [in the early 18th century] !

Ok, you are right about Queen Anne. In any case, my point remains: male and female consorts should not be treated differently in an era of gender equality. If Henrik cannot be King, then Maxima and the others should be princesses and not queens. BTW, technically that is the case in the Netherlands, but for some reason, it was decided to give Maxima a courtesy title of Queen.

Titles matter though. Princess Diana and Princess Anne for example curtsied to Queen Beatrix ( a reigning Queen) and to Queen Sofia ( a consort), but they didn't to Prince Claus, meaning he was assumed to be of lower rank. That is unfair as Henrik said.

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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
I'll catch heck for this but I like the tradition. Henrik should just suck it up as we say in my neck of the woods.
No heck, but agnatic primogeniture or male preference primogeniture were also tradition and many monarchies changed it in the name of gender equality.
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  #142  
Old 10-16-2015, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
[....] If Henrik cannot be King, then Maxima and the others should be princesses and not queens. BTW, technically that is the case in the Netherlands, but for some reason, it was decided to give Maxima a courtesy title of Queen.
That is true. Her official formal title is Princess Máxima of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau. As spouse to the King however she is styled with her husband's rank and form of address, as is the tradition. So her title in full is: "Her Majesty Queen Máxima, Princess of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau".

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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Titles matter though. Princess Diana and Princess Anne for example curtsied to Queen Beatrix (a reigning Queen) and to Queen Sofia (a consort), but they didn't to Prince Claus, meaning he was assumed to be of lower rank. That is unfair as Henrik said.
The Infantas de España however did curtsey to Prince Claus, so it differs from country to country.
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  #143  
Old 10-16-2015, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Ok, you are right about Queen Anne. In any case, my point remains: male and female consorts should not be treated differently in an era of gender equality. If Henrik cannot be King, then Maxima and the others should be princesses and not queens. BTW, technically that is the case in the Netherlands, but for some reason, it was decided to give Maxima a courtesy title of Queen.

Titles matter though. Princess Diana and Princess Anne for example curtsied to Queen Beatrix ( a reigning Queen) and to Queen Sofia ( a consort), but they didn't to Prince Claus, meaning he was assumed to be of lower rank. That is unfair as Henrik said.
I totally agree with you in respect of the bolded part. But it does not follow that the husband of a Queen Regnant ought to be a King.

The language of Queen and King is inherently discriminatory. The words come from a time when the top job invariably went to a man. Though there were exceptions in some societies and in some families, in general society was ruled by men. Men were the soldiers and the property-owners and the law-makers and the decision-makers. Only a man could be King. The Queen was the King's wife and she was necessary to bear his children- future kings - but she did not rule. To call the husband of a Queen Regnant the King is to elevate him to a position above his wife, and that will not do in these days of Queens regnant and equal primogeniture.

For there to be true equality, a new gender-neutral terminology will need to be decided upon. Perhaps the monarch should be called just that: The Monarch. And his/her consort could be called The Consort. Or the existing terms for the monarch could remain, with a male monarch being called The King and a female monarch being called The Queen, with their spouses being known as The Princess Consort and The Prince Consort, as appropriate.
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  #144  
Old 10-16-2015, 10:57 AM
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Jadwiga of Poland comes to my mind, who was called King because: "Jadwiga was crowned "king" in Kraków on 16 October 1384. Her title either reflected the Polish lords' attempt to hinder her future husband from adopting the same title without further act or only emphasized that she was a queen regnant." (Wiki) Imo this should have been handled always like this.
Well Hendrik should finally get over it, too many times now he embarassed Margrethe.
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  #145  
Old 10-16-2015, 11:20 AM
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BT has asked a number of people who know PH, what they think: Bror og ekspert: Derfor opgiver prins Henrik aldrig kongedrømmen - Royale | www.bt.dk

Etienne de Montpezat, PH's brother: "It's not the first time he has spoken about this subject, which he seems to have been obsessed with for a long time".

A French journalist, Slim Allagui: "I think it torments him, and he feels he is being discriminated and treated unjustly. That he has indeed said to me personally. He would like to be called King Consort. He can't understand that in a country where you brag about equality between the sexes, men are worth less gender-wise.
The French are proud people and he feel he has been snubbed by not being considered an equal partner.
He keeps on pointing that out each time he is asked - even though it is not going to happen".
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  #146  
Old 10-16-2015, 11:25 AM
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In Prince Henrik's defence, the husbands of the Queens of Portugal were Kings if they have had a child with their wives.

The husband of Queen Maria I was King Pedro III and the second husband of Queen Maria II was King Fernando II.

I believe it was the same thing in Spain, but King Juan Carlos decided to change this, so the husband of the future Queen Leonor will not be King.

The Brazilian Imperial Constitution also sais the husband of the ruling Empress would be Emperor. Sadly, that never happened with Princess Isabel and the Count of Eu, because of the republican coup.

So, at least the Monarchies of Iberian tradition offer Prince Henrik a precedent.

That said, I like him a lot, but he should stop with this nonsense.
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  #147  
Old 10-16-2015, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cris M View Post
In Prince Henrik's defence, the husbands of the Queens of Portugal were Kings if they have had a child with their wives.

The husband of Queen Maria I was King Pedro III and the second husband of Queen Maria II was King Fernando II.

I believe it was the same thing in Spain, but King Juan Carlos decided to change this, so the husband of the future Queen Leonor will not be King.

The Brazilian Imperial Constitution also sais the husband of the ruling Empress would be Emperor. Sadly, that never happened with Princess Isabel and the Count of Eu, because of the republican couple.

So, at least the Monarchies of Iberian tradition offer Prince Henrik a precedent.

That said, I like him a lot, but he should stop with this nonsense.
Thank you for that contribution, Cris M !
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  #148  
Old 10-16-2015, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
BT has asked a number of people who know PH, what they think: Bror og ekspert: Derfor opgiver prins Henrik aldrig kongedrømmen - Royale | www.bt.dk

Etienne de Montpezat, PH's brother: "It's not the first time he has spoken about this subject, which he seems to have been obsessed with for a long time".

A French journalist, Slim Allagui: "I think it torments him, and he feels he is being discriminated and treated unjustly. That he has indeed said to me personally. He would like to be called King Consort. He can't understand that in a country where you brag about equality between the sexes, men are worth less gender-wise.
The French are proud people and he feel he has been snubbed by not being considered an equal partner.
He keeps on pointing that out each time he is asked - even though it is not going to happen".
Seems like he is def. obsessed with this.
He is burning any good will/respect he had gain over the last few years.
Even with the title "king consort", he will still be #2... actually #3 in many eyes since the Crown Prince is taking over more and more

I wonder what the Queen and his sons think of this
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  #149  
Old 10-16-2015, 12:24 PM
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This wonder I have too. What specifically think the queen. But I'm sorry Prince Henrik because someday will be gone from this world with this complaint deep inside him (I'm sorry but I can not see this seriously.)
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  #150  
Old 10-16-2015, 12:47 PM
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Yes.

Also what if Henrik outlives the Queen? Seeing his son Frederik named King and Mary, Queen .
King Consort Henrik, the King's father ? or just "regular" Prince Henrik
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  #151  
Old 10-16-2015, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
BT has asked a number of people who know PH, what they think: Bror og ekspert: Derfor opgiver prins Henrik aldrig kongedrømmen - Royale | www.bt.dk

Etienne de Montpezat, PH's brother: "It's not the first time he has spoken about this subject, which he seems to have been obsessed with for a long time".

A French journalist, Slim Allagui: "I think it torments him, and he feels he is being discriminated and treated unjustly. That he has indeed said to me personally. He would like to be called King Consort. He can't understand that in a country where you brag about equality between the sexes, men are worth less gender-wise.
The French are proud people and he feel he has been snubbed by not being considered an equal partner.
He keeps on pointing that out each time he is asked - even though it is not going to happen".
How in the world is not having the title King mean men are worth less gender-wise? For God's sake, we still live in a world where men are considered better than women. Even Margrethe, just fifty or so years ago, was almost pushed out from being monarch simply because she had the gall to be born a woman. Whinging about being Prince Consort instead of King is so silly and so pathetic, imo. He is, absolutely, equal to his wife. Does he not accompany her on trips? Does he not stand next to her as he has his whole marriage?

It doesn't come across as he wants to be equal to me, it comes across as he wants to be special. He wants to be more. Any man who truly understands the gender disparity would not whinge about being called Prince Consort when married to the Queen. He would understand the history of the titles King and Queen and fully understand why the husband of a reigning Queen is called Prince Consort and not King or King Consort or whatever.

I am so tired of his whining about it.
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  #152  
Old 10-16-2015, 01:02 PM
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Oh god... not again....
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  #153  
Old 10-16-2015, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by polyesco View Post
Yes.

Also what if Henrik outlives the Queen? Seeing his son Frederik named King and Mary, Queen .
King Consort Henrik, the King's father ? or just "regular" Prince Henrik
I should have thought Henrik would have been happy with the title he has and the prestige that goes with it. Seeking or wishing for a higher title sounds rather grasping! Perhaps if he feels so strongly about it, he should sue the government for a change in the constitution. But when Frederik becomes king it will be too late.
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  #154  
Old 10-16-2015, 01:05 PM
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If he were my Father, or [worse] my husband] i'd DEMAND he shut up [at least in public], as an embarrassment to the family,dynasty and country. He does his reputation NO favours, and there is a danger he will be solely remembered as a man with a 'chip on his shoulder'..
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  #155  
Old 10-16-2015, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by GömdNatt View Post

It doesn't come across as he wants to be equal to me, it comes across as he wants to be special. He wants to be more. Any man who truly understands the gender disparity would not whinge about being called Prince Consort when married to the Queen.

I am so tired of his whining about it.
I agree with you! His constant complaining about this is an excellent reason for him NOT being called "King." I would bet his wife and sons wish he would shut up about this already.
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  #156  
Old 10-16-2015, 01:57 PM
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To be honest, this is quite embarrassing to himself and his family. I mean, he is acting very childish. At the end of the day, it's just a title and he is fighting for something that he won't get so why keep going on about it.
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  #157  
Old 10-16-2015, 02:02 PM
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Ekspert: Prins Henrik skader kongehuset - Indland

Translated by me.
Quote:
Expert: Prince Henrik damages the royal family.

It damages the royal family when the Prince Consort again complains about this, says historian and royal family Expert Sørensen.

"It is very difficult to understand why Prince Henrik continues to repeat this request because it does not fit with Danish traditions. You can look at the polls when the Prince Consort previously have complained, it has damaged the royal family, especially the Prince Consort's own popularity, "he says.

Sørensen find it difficult to find an explanation of why Prince Henrik again complains that he does not feel appreciated with his current title.

"It is tradition in Northern Europe and has been for many years" says Sørensen.

But perhaps the Prince Consort's complaints is due to that he comes from a different culture, according to Sørensen.

''The Prince Consort comes from a different culture, and therefore perhaps have a different view of how to use titles and also a different view of what relations between the sexes should be."

A new title will require that the royal family requests that Prince Henrik should change the title. Then the Parliament must decide what to do with the request. But Sørensen think that is unlikely.

"I think it's very unlikely that the Queen will go in and change the Prince Consort's title because it is in violation of all Danish and northern European traditions. The Queen is very aware/interested in history, and therefore I think that it is very unlikely, "he said.
I don't have much respect for Lars Hovbakke Sørensen as a royal expert, but I both agree and don't agree on this.
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  #158  
Old 10-16-2015, 02:23 PM
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There is no way in this world PH will get the title of king, that's only for a male monarch.
But I wonder if he could be bestowed the title of king-consort? In DK kongegemalen.
But it won't make a difference. - And it won't be popular among people here, because it will be seen that he is given that title because he is whining and not because he deserves it.

Anyway, he still won't be a majesty and he will still be behind Frederik (and Mary) according to the protocol, should QMII die first.
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  #159  
Old 10-16-2015, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
There is no way in this world PH will get the title of king, that's only for a male monarch.
But I wonder if he could be bestowed the title of king-consort? In DK kongegemalen.
Shouldn't he get the title 'queen-consort'? He is the consort of a Queen, not a King.
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  #160  
Old 10-16-2015, 02:56 PM
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Shouldn't he get the title 'queen-consort'?
That would do his overblown MALE ego the World of good !
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