Prince Henrik: "I Should Be King" Discussion

[GömdNatt]

BT has asked a number of people who know PH, what they think: Bror og ekspert: Derfor opgiver prins Henrik aldrig kongedrømmen - Royale | www.bt.dk

Etienne de Montpezat, PH's brother: "It's not the first time he has spoken about this subject, which he seems to have been obsessed with for a long time".

A French journalist, Slim Allagui: "I think it torments him, and he feels he is being discriminated and treated unjustly. That he has indeed said to me personally. He would like to be called King Consort. He can't understand that in a country where you brag about equality between the sexes, men are worth less gender-wise.
The French are proud people and he feel he has been snubbed by not being considered an equal partner.
He keeps on pointing that out each time he is asked - even though it is not going to happen".

How in the world is not having the title King mean men are worth less gender-wise? For God's sake, we still live in a world where men are considered better than women. Even Margrethe, just fifty or so years ago, was almost pushed out from being monarch simply because she had the gall to be born a woman. Whinging about being Prince Consort instead of King is so silly and so pathetic, imo. He is, absolutely, equal to his wife. Does he not accompany her on trips? Does he not stand next to her as he has his whole marriage?

It doesn't come across as he wants to be equal to me, it comes across as he wants to be special. He wants to be more. Any man who truly understands the gender disparity would not whinge about being called Prince Consort when married to the Queen. He would understand the history of the titles King and Queen and fully understand why the husband of a reigning Queen is called Prince Consort and not King or King Consort or whatever.

I am so tired of his whining about it.

 

[hernameispekka]

Oh god... not again....

 

[Jacknch]

Yes.

Also what if Henrik outlives the Queen? Seeing his son Frederik named King and Mary, Queen .
King Consort Henrik, the King's father ? or just "regular" Prince Henrik

I should have thought Henrik would have been happy with the title he has and the prestige that goes with it. Seeking or wishing for a higher title sounds rather grasping! Perhaps if he feels so strongly about it, he should sue the government for a change in the constitution. But when Frederik becomes king it will be too late.

 

[wyevale]

If he were my Father, or [worse] my husband] i'd DEMAND he shut up [at least in public], as an embarrassment to the family,dynasty and country. He does his reputation NO favours, and there is a danger he will be solely remembered as a man with a 'chip on his shoulder'..

 

[Emmily]

It doesn't come across as he wants to be equal to me, it comes across as he wants to be special. He wants to be more. Any man who truly understands the gender disparity would not whinge about being called Prince Consort when married to the Queen.

I am so tired of his whining about it.

I agree with you! His constant complaining about this is an excellent reason for him NOT being called "King." I would bet his wife and sons wish he would shut up about this already.

 

[dazzling]

To be honest, this is quite embarrassing to himself and his family. I mean, he is acting very childish. At the end of the day, it's just a title and he is fighting for something that he won't get so why keep going on about it.

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

Ekspert: Prins Henrik skader kongehuset - Indland

Translated by me.

Expert: Prince Henrik damages the royal family.

It damages the royal family when the Prince Consort again complains about this, says historian and royal family Expert Sørensen.

"It is very difficult to understand why Prince Henrik continues to repeat this request because it does not fit with Danish traditions. You can look at the polls when the Prince Consort previously have complained, it has damaged the royal family, especially the Prince Consort's own popularity, "he says.

Sørensen find it difficult to find an explanation of why Prince Henrik again complains that he does not feel appreciated with his current title.

"It is tradition in Northern Europe and has been for many years" says Sørensen.

But perhaps the Prince Consort's complaints is due to that he comes from a different culture, according to Sørensen.

''The Prince Consort comes from a different culture, and therefore perhaps have a different view of how to use titles and also a different view of what relations between the sexes should be."

A new title will require that the royal family requests that Prince Henrik should change the title. Then the Parliament must decide what to do with the request. But Sørensen think that is unlikely.

"I think it's very unlikely that the Queen will go in and change the Prince Consort's title because it is in violation of all Danish and northern European traditions. The Queen is very aware/interested in history, and therefore I think that it is very unlikely, "he said.

I don't have much respect for Lars Hovbakke Sørensen as a royal expert, but I both agree and don't agree on this.

 

[Muhler]

There is no way in this world PH will get the title of king, that's only for a male monarch.
But I wonder if he could be bestowed the title of king-consort? In DK kongegemalen.
But it won't make a difference. - And it won't be popular among people here, because it will be seen that he is given that title because he is whining and not because he deserves it.

Anyway, he still won't be a majesty and he will still be behind Frederik (and Mary) according to the protocol, should QMII die first.

 

[Nordic]

There is no way in this world PH will get the title of king, that's only for a male monarch.
But I wonder if he could be bestowed the title of king-consort? In DK kongegemalen.

Shouldn't he get the title 'queen-consort'? He is the consort of a Queen, not a King.

 

[wyevale]

Shouldn't he get the title 'queen-consort'?

That would do his overblown MALE ego the World of good !

 

[ladongas]

We all know older men* like this...

They have little to do all day but muse over everything in the world that they don't like or approve of (in the US, Fox News encourages this!), and the next thing you know, they're out there yelling, Hey kids, get off my Palace lawn!

Eighty one doesn't seem too old to those of us in long-lived families, but some people of that age have no filters and say unsuitable or embarrassing things. Perhaps he's one of those people about whom you just have to shrug and say, that's (Dad) being Dad.

*and women, too, but women can usually keep themselves occupied.

 

[GömdNatt]

They have little to do all day but muse over everything in the world that they don't like or approve of (in the US, Fox News encourages this!), and the next thing you know, they're out there yelling, Hey kids, get off my Palace lawn!

Eighty one doesn't seem too old to those of us in long-lived families, but some people of that age have no filters and say unsuitable or embarrassing things. Perhaps he's one of those people about whom you just have to shrug and say, that's (Dad) being Dad.

*and women, too, but women can usually keep themselves occupied.

He's been saying this for decades though, so it's nothing new for him and nothing to do with his age. It's simply his attitude on things. Thank god that Margrethe seemed to pass more sense onto Frederik.

 

[Ish]

In Prince Henrik's defence, the husbands of the Queens of Portugal were Kings if they have had a child with their wives.

The husband of Queen Maria I was King Pedro III and the second husband of Queen Maria II was King Fernando II.

I believe it was the same thing in Spain, but King Juan Carlos decided to change this, so the husband of the future Queen Leonor will not be King.

The Brazilian Imperial Constitution also sais the husband of the ruling Empress would be Emperor. Sadly, that never happened with Princess Isabel and the Count of Eu, because of the republican coup.

So, at least the Monarchies of Iberian tradition offer Prince Henrik a precedent.

That said, I like him a lot, but he should stop with this nonsense.

I believe in the case of Portugal and Spain, the King Consorts at least part of the time ruled by right of their wives. The idea being that women were less than and could not rule themselves, and should do the more important thing of taking care of the children.

That's the general point that is missed in this type of debate. The title Queen Consort is always less than the title King. The title King Consort is not actually less than the title Queen Regnant and typically grants the holder power because a man is traditionally seen as a ruler of his wife.

The reason why the husbands of Queens Anne, Victoria, and Elizabeth II in Britain weren't made King Consorts is because the British government wanted the power (whatever power there is) to be in the hands of the Queen. Contrarily, when Queens Mary I and Mary II ruled their husbands, Philip II as King Consort and William III as King Regnant, both held actual power. Everything done during their reigns was in the name of husband and wife.

Henrik is less than his wife. He will always be so and should always be so. It's not a gender issue - Mary is likewise less than her husband for the same reasons. One is the monarch (or heir), the other the consort. And that is how it should be. Henrik throwing a tantrum over his title over and over again is him being immature and failing to understand the meaning of the words.

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

He's never going to lets this go, but it's not he who has taken it up the last few times. It's the journalists who ask him, and he is not the type to say ''no comment'' and therefore they will ask again and again and he will respond again and again.

 

[hernameispekka]

He's never going to lets this go, but it's not he who has taken it up the last few times. It's the journalists who ask him, and he is not the type to say ''no comment'' and therefore they will ask again and again and he will respond again and again.

Ofc the journalists are bringing it up. It's journalistic gold!! He's just stupid enough to take the hooks they through out.

 

[grevinnan]

It certainly is a longstanding issue for Prince Henrik. Perhaps in the future there will be changes to not differentiate between female and male spouses of the regent. It is not only the title "King" but also being "Your Majesty". In Sweden at least the Queen is also called Ers Majestät (Your Majesty) even though she is not the regent. However, Prince Daniel will not be "Ers Majestät" when Crown Princess Victoria becomes Queen. Only the reigning Queen is then the Your Majesty.

 

[Ish]

It certainly is a longstanding issue for Prince Henrik. Perhaps in the future there will be changes to not differentiate between female and male spouses of the regent. It is not only the title "King" but also being "Your Majesty". In Sweden at least the Queen is also called Ers Majestät (Your Majesty) even though she is not the regent. However, Prince Daniel will not be "Ers Majestät" when Crown Princess Victoria becomes Queen. Only the reigning Queen is then the Your Majesty.

Prince Philip is a Highness, not Majesty. So was Prince Claus.

Shouldn't he get the title 'queen-consort'? He is the consort of a Queen, not a King.

Your title is gendered based on your gender not your spouse or parent.

Queen Consort is a Queen who is a consort. Likewise King Consort is a King who is consort, and Prince Consort is a Prince who is consort.

It's just like the title Queen Mother. It doesn't mean "the Queen's Mother", it means "a former Queen Consort who is mother to the current monarch".

 

[HRHHermione]

These rants come off as so petulant and make the family look bad. He should know better.


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[Nordic]

Your title is gendered based on your gender not your spouse or parent.

Queen Consort is a Queen who is a consort. Likewise King Consort is a King who is consort, and Prince Consort is a Prince who is consort.

It's just like the title Queen Mother. It doesn't mean "the Queen's Mother", it means "a former Queen Consort who is mother to the current monarch".

Thanks, but my post was really not meant to be taken too seriously

 

[xenobia]

It certainly is a longstanding issue for Prince Henrik. Perhaps in the future there will be changes to not differentiate between female and male spouses of the regent. It is not only the title "King" but also being "Your Majesty". In Sweden at least the Queen is also called Ers Majestät (Your Majesty) even though she is not the regent. However, Prince Daniel will not be "Ers Majestät" when Crown Princess Victoria becomes Queen. Only the reigning Queen is then the Your Majesty.

Yes, that's true. But Daniel has been brought up in another time and culture than prince Henrik. Daniel is from a middle class family in Dalarna, brought up in a very gender equal context during the 1970's. Henrik was born into the french nobility in the beginning of the century. I'm not saying that Daniel is a better person, but he's a different person. They are both children of their times, and embrace/accept their supportive roles in very different ways.

 

[tommy100]

Its sad that Henrik doesn't spend as much time making himself as respected as his wife in his actions as he does moaning about not having the same status and respect as his wife through a lack of title. Actions speak louder than words.... and titles.

 

[gerry]

French is the language of pedantry and the people of France are famously pedantic. Le prince Henri is merely crossing 'T's and dotting 'I's as is his wont. Of course he is correct that gender inequity exists in the case of Queens and their Prince-Consorts; what is more interesting however is what he wants DONE about this inequity. As the always helpful Muhler has stated, it would probably take a constitutional amendment to make this happen and I do not believe that the Monarch has the wherewithal to suggest such an amendment. I would also bet that the Danish Queen would not want to suggest such an amendment, even if she could (which she probably can't). If the Danish people and the government want an end to this Henrik-nitpicking, then they should take the man's complaint seriously (who knows, he might follow his Greek brother in law's example and plead his case to the European Court of Human Rights). Study the complaint with academic rigour and put the matter to rest, once and for all!

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I believe in the case of Portugal and Spain, the King Consorts at least part of the time ruled by right of their wives.

I do not know about earlier kings consort, but the nineteenth-century kings consort of Isabel II of Spain and Maria II of Portugal did not.

Jon Bloch Skipper was asked about PH title and possible future titles this week in BB. And basically it's up to QMII, except for the title of king!
Because that would mean that the Constitution needs a definition of the title King. Because there are lots of references to the King in the Constitution. And even though King in this context means the Monarch, the wording in the Constitution still needs to be changed should PH become king.

If his logic holds, a future king of Denmark who abdicates will not be able to enjoy the title of King after his abdication.

 

[Terri Terri]

I made the below comment in the CP Frederik Current Events Thread on September 27, 2015.
I will put it here as I think it is relevant to the discussion!

I have a different point of view as to why CP Frederik's constitutional role as heir and future King is so "hidden" from public view and knowledge. I may be completely off base but here goes anyhow. Let me emphasize that this is my opinion only!

Everyone has made very important points...but I think that the discussion is missing a very important family dynamic. And that dynamic surrounds Prince Henrik....a man who sees himself as #2 in the family after the Queen; is against being "downgraded" to #3 and thinks that he should have the title as King since his wife is Queen.

The same Prince Henrik who in 2002 fled Denmark for southern France after feeling "degraded" when the media dared suggest that Crown Prince Frederik was the host of the New Year's Court that year when the Queen could not attend due to an injury!

Prince Henrik places great importance on being half of the regent couple of Denmark. How is the DRF to deal with Prince Henrik's sensitivities? As he gets older, he will not change his opinion or thinking....and he is still the Queen's husband and CP Frederik's father. So I think that the Queen and CP Frederik have compromised and decided that CP Frederik's preparation for his future role as King should be done as behind the scenes as possible...so as not to seem as though Frederik is "overtaking" Prince Henrik in importance. With the advent of social media, CP Frederik's constitutional activities are becoming known indirectly.

I often wonder how Prince Henrik will react if the Queen were to die and the CP Couple become the regent couple. Would he retire and move to southern France permanently?

I also think that the PR strategy of the DRF reflects the character of the head of the family - the Queen - a woman who is not of the technological age and probably isn't too in tune with the power of social media. I remember from the last documentary of the monarchy at work that she still uses a pocket diary to record her events. I would think that F&M use their smart phones/computers/I Pads.

I think better PR will come when F&M become the regent couple...especially with CP Mary's background in marketing. She already uses the website and social media connected to the Mary Foundation to get the message out on her meetings and behind the scene events.



So while I agree there are problems with poor communication and the DRF's PR on CP Frederik's activities as heir...I still think we must also consider the somewhat thorny issue of a father who cannot handle being seen as less important than his son.

 

[grevinnan]

I made the below comment in the CP Frederik Current Events Thread on September 27, 2015.
I will put it here as I think it is relevant to the discussion!

This is exactly what this whole thread is about. Am I missing the point?

 

[Cris M]

I believe in the case of Portugal and Spain, the King Consorts at least part of the time ruled by right of their wives. The idea being that women were less than and could not rule themselves, and should do the more important thing of taking care of the children.

I don't know about Spain, but I can assure you that Queen Maria I and Queen Maria II really ruled over Portugal, their husbands were mere consorts with the same amount of power Prince Philip has today.

And the Brazilian Imperial Constitution was very specific regarding the (lack of) power of the Emperor consort:

The Marriage of the Princess Heiress presumptive of the Crown will be made according the will of the Emperor; if the Emperor is absent at the time of this Marriage, it will not happen without the consent of the General Assembly. Her Husband will have no part in the Government and will only be called Emperor after giving the Empress a son or a daughter.

 

[Terri Terri]

This is exactly what this whole thread is about. Am I missing the point?

No, you're not! Around late September, there was a discussion in the CP Frederik Current Events thread about the sometimes poor PR for CP Frederik's duties - especially his constitutional duties, which were not recorded on the royal calendar or do not attract media attention. My post quoted before was my opinion.

 

[JR76]

I do not know about earlier kings consort, but the nineteenth-century kings consort of Isabel II of Spain and Maria II of Portugal did not.

I don't know about Spain, but I can assure you that Queen Maria I and Queen Maria II really ruled over Portugal, their husbands were mere consorts with the same amount of power Prince Philip has today.

King Ferdinand II of Portugal, née Sachsen-Coburg-Saalfeld, was very much an active partner to his wife Queen Maria II and even ruled in her absence during her many pregnancies. He was also a regent for their son King Pedro V 1853-1855 after the death of his wife. All in all he was a very capable and popular King consort who made the best out of his position without trying to upstage the monarch, his wife, who in turn trusted his advice and leaned on him in the day to day running of the country.


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[Mbruno]

I believe in the case of Portugal and Spain, the King Consorts at least part of the time ruled by right of their wives. The idea being that women were less than and could not rule themselves, and should do the more important thing of taking care of the children.

That's the general point that is missed in this type of debate. The title Queen Consort is always less than the title King. The title King Consort is not actually less than the title Queen Regnant and typically grants the holder power because a man is traditionally seen as a ruler of his wife.

The reason why the husbands of Queens Anne, Victoria, and Elizabeth II in Britain weren't made King Consorts is because the British government wanted the power (whatever power there is) to be in the hands of the Queen. Contrarily, when Queens Mary I and Mary II ruled their husbands, Philip II as King Consort and William III as King Regnant, both held actual power. Everything done during their reigns was in the name of husband and wife.

Henrik is less than his wife. He will always be so and should always be so. It's not a gender issue - Mary is likewise less than her husband for the same reasons. One is the monarch (or heir), the other the consort. And that is how it should be. Henrik throwing a tantrum over his title over and over again is him being immature and failing to understand the meaning of the words.

Henrik is not asking to rule by right of his wife or to be above her in rank. He is just arguing he should hold the same rank for example as Maxima, which is faiir and a reasonable demand.

No matter what you guys say, Henrik is below Maxima when the latter is styled Majesty and foreign HRHs curtsy to her while they don't to the former.

As for the argument that the word King necessarily means a sovereign, i suppose that a society that was able to redefine the meaning of a concept as old as marriage (no lionger a union between a man and a woman) shouldn't find it difficult to incorporate the concept of King consort in its dictionary.

 

[Cris M]

King Ferdinand II of Portugal, née Sachsen-Coburg-Saalfeld, was very much an active partner to his wife Queen Maria II and even ruled in her absence during her many pregnancies. He was also a regent for their son King Pedro V 1853-1855 after the death of his wife. All in all he was a very capable and popular King consort who made the best out of his position without trying to upstage the monarch, his wife, who in turn trusted his advice and leaned on him in the day to day running of the country.


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Very true, I was wrong when I tried to portray Pedro III and Fernando II as the same kind of consorts. They were not.

We can say Maria II and Fernando II ruled together, but never that he ruled in his wife's place. That said, Queen Maria II was a very hands on Sovereign.