The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #201  
Old 10-17-2015, 03:36 PM
Skippyboo's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Atlanta, United States
Posts: 3,370
Forget the consorts, bow or curtesy to the monarch only if you are a Royal.

Monarchy is not about equality. If he keeps complaining about equality, then the most equal act would be to have a head of state elected by all of the people not a hereditary monarchy.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #202  
Old 10-17-2015, 03:39 PM
eya eya is offline
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: -, Greece
Posts: 5,505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
More examples of gender inequality below.

1) Princess Diana and Princess Anne curtsy to Queen Beatrix, but not to Prince Claus.

https://youtu.be/EgFOxxKsZm8?t=24

2) However, see in the picture below how Princess Diana curtsies to Queen Sofia.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...e16ef3a58e.jpg


Again, why should Prince Claus rank lower than Queen Sofia just because he happens to be male ?
Really so as you put Mbruno have to agree with you.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #203  
Old 10-17-2015, 05:06 PM
Queen Claude's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: USA, United States
Posts: 380
Henrik is right male consorts are discriminated against vis a vis female consorts, but I don't think him complaining about it is going to bring about a change in his status, perhaps it will spark a discussion that will affect the status of future consorts, but will it be female consorts peaking at Princess/HRH* or male consorts being elevated to King/HM?

Right or wrong it is just poor form for Henrik to be so publicly worked up over this. I was prepared to cut him some slack and say that he was just answering a reporter's question, but then people who know him said that it really is an ongoing sore point with him. I had the same question that was raised in an article that was posted, and that is does Henrik have a history of gender equality activism?

For most of Henrik's life male privilege was status quo, he just happened to marry into that one of the few circumstances where being a male was not the most advantageous position. Nevertheless he was born into and married into the most rarefied levels of material privilege and status and there are many, many more injustices that take precedent over the one he has experienced.

* I wonder how that will affect how Crown Princesses are styled when their husbands become King.

ETA:
Also, and I know this sounds harsh, but my impression is that Henrik has been a perfectly fine Prince Consort, but he has not done anything extraordinary in the role. I don't fault him for that since Denmark has experience peace and prosperity for the better part of Margrethe reign but it is not like you can point to extraordinary acts like those performed by royal consorts Elizabeth and Ingrid during World War II. Now when some megalomaniac refers to Henrik as "the most dangerous man Europe" then we can talk.
Reply With Quote
  #204  
Old 10-17-2015, 05:07 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: København, Denmark
Posts: 6
If he wants to be King, then he should probably learn to speark Danish first, sorry for saying it!
Reply With Quote
  #205  
Old 10-17-2015, 06:43 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: England, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,252
I think, IMO is fair for their to be discussion about whether its right or not that a male consort ranks lower than a female consort (or at least appears to when you look at curtsying/bowing etc). However, I find it ridiculous for Henrik to complain about something which he knew was going to happen when he married Margrethe. Its not as if there have been changes to the constitution after their marriage which have brought about this situation, its what he knew would be the case when he married an heir to the throne so why moan on and on about it an embarrass his wife and his country like this.
Reply With Quote
  #206  
Old 10-17-2015, 06:50 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: *******, Canada
Posts: 4,419
It almost sounds like he wants to be co-sovereign. As Muhler pointed out Henrik has no constitutional position which really seems to be what's irking him.

No matter what title he is given (King-Consort) it would be a title in name only with no constitutional authority.
Reply With Quote
  #207  
Old 10-17-2015, 06:57 PM
HereditaryPrincess's Avatar
Heir Apparent
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Greater London, United Kingdom
Posts: 5,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
Henrik is at it again!

He's been blessed with a healthy and loving family, social prominence, wealth, the opportunity to do meaningful work and to experience things the majority of people can only imagine. And yet none of those things seem to have given him a sense of perspective on this issue.

I've always thought Henrik seemed like an interesting man with a lot of natural talents, but equally he strikes me as one of those people who always have to make things complicated. I'm sure most of us know someone like that in real life - if there's no problem immediately at hand then they'll go looking for one.
I agree. He just has to face up to the fact that he's most likely never going to be "upgraded" to King and let this subject go. And as you have said, isn't it enough to have a very high and privileged role in society and a loving family? If I were in his position those aspects of my life would be more important than a title.
__________________
"For beautiful eyes, look for the good in others; for beautiful lips, speak only words of kindness; and for poise, walk with the knowledge that you are never alone". Audrey Hepburn

*
"Think of all the beauty still left around you and be happy". Anne Frank
Reply With Quote
  #208  
Old 10-17-2015, 08:04 PM
Muhler's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 8,788
The IMO frustrating thing about PH's complaints is that's about such trivial details.

PH is talking about equality within an institution that is based on inequality. The whole idea about having a monarch is that the monarch is above everybody else.
That alone leaves my head buzzing.

No matter what title he has, he still holds the formally speaking second highest position in DK as long as QMII is alive. He can't go any higher! So what's the problem?

If we compare PH and Mary in her future role, there will, as far as I can tell, be only two differences between them.
Mary will be titled queen and be addressed as majesty. - That's it.
Apart from that there will be no difference between them at all.

Mary will not have a Constitutional role either.
She will hold the second highest position in the country.
She will never be equal to her husband.
Should Frederik become ill during a New Year Court, she will probably address the guests on behalf of the family, while her son Christian, whom she hopefully isn't jealous on, will address the guests on behalf of the head of state.

Should Frederik die before Mary, Mary will have to walk behind Christian and his wife one day.

The difference between being titled a queen and a prince consort is comparable to calling a street-sweeper a Road Sanitation Technician - but he still sweeps the streets...
Reply With Quote
  #209  
Old 10-17-2015, 08:34 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,073
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
The IMO frustrating thing about PH's complaints is that's about such trivial details.

PH is talking about equality within an institution that is based on inequality. The whole idea about having a monarch is that the monarch is above everybody else.
That alone leaves my head buzzing.

No matter what title he has, he still holds the formally speaking second highest position in DK as long as QMII is alive. He can't go any higher! So what's the problem?

If we compare PH and Mary in her future role, there will, as far as I can tell, be only two differences between them.
Mary will be titled queen and be addressed as majesty. - That's it.
Apart from that there will be no difference between them at all.

Mary will not have a Constitutional role either.
She will hold the second highest position in the country.
She will never be equal to her husband.
Should Frederik become ill during a New Year Court, she will probably address the guests on behalf of the family, while her son Christian, whom she hopefully isn't jealous on, will address the guests on behalf of the head of state.

Should Frederik die before Mary, Mary will have to walk behind Christian and his wife one day.

The difference between being titled a queen and a prince consort is comparable to calling a street-sweeper a Road Sanitation Technician - but he still sweeps the streets...
I agree with you, Muhler. The entire system is a bit wacky --- but, it's a monarchy not a democracy! Henrik has a point --- the system is sexist. No doubt! But, enough already -- get over it! You knew this when you married into it ... there is no surprise here.

If you want to be equal ... well, marry Daisy Q. Public -- you can be as equal as the rest of us (and pay taxes, too!)
Reply With Quote
  #210  
Old 10-18-2015, 12:50 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: San Francisco, United States
Posts: 2,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
The IMO frustrating thing about PH's complaints is that's about such trivial details.

PH is talking about equality within an institution that is based on inequality. The whole idea about having a monarch is that the monarch is above everybody else.
That alone leaves my head buzzing.

No matter what title he has, he still holds the formally speaking second highest position in DK as long as QMII is alive. He can't go any higher! So what's the problem?

If we compare PH and Mary in her future role, there will, as far as I can tell, be only two differences between them.
Mary will be titled queen and be addressed as majesty. - That's it.
Apart from that there will be no difference between them at all.

Mary will not have a Constitutional role either.
She will hold the second highest position in the country.
She will never be equal to her husband.
Should Frederik become ill during a New Year Court, she will probably address the guests on behalf of the family, while her son Christian, whom she hopefully isn't jealous on, will address the guests on behalf of the head of state.

Should Frederik die before Mary, Mary will have to walk behind Christian and his wife one day.

The difference between being titled a queen and a prince consort is comparable to calling a street-sweeper a Road Sanitation Technician - but he still sweeps the streets...
If Prince Henrik had approached the issue as an inequality in general and not whined about that he is not titled King he may have been able to make people listen to him. There is an inequality in the way the spouses are titled but the Prince's whining will not help the issue.
Reply With Quote
  #211  
Old 10-18-2015, 03:05 AM
dazzling's Avatar
Super Moderator
Blog Editor
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: -, France
Posts: 22,322
I dont think he is thinking right, by the fuss he has created, he is damaging the royal family.
Moreover, could this lead to a reason for the Queen to step down so it stops the embarrassment?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #212  
Old 10-18-2015, 04:39 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Christmas Island
Posts: 5,939
Quote:
Originally Posted by grevinnan View Post
The best solution to this issue is to make spouses to a reining monarch Prince/Princess Consort. I just can not imagine Prince Henrik or for that matter Prince Daniel or Prince Philip (D of E) being called King. We are just more familiar with a Queen being a spouse of a reigning King although there have been and will be reigning Queens.
That was the original intention in the Netherlands. Like Máxima was never "The Princess of Orange" since that title has become exclusively for the Heir(ess) alone, she would also be "The Princess of the Netherlands" alike her predecessors Claus von Amsberg, Bernhard zur Lippe-Biesterfeld and Heinrich von Mecklenburg-Schwerin. It is also written in the Royal House Act 2002: the spouse of the King is Prince (Princess) of the Netherlands.

Sadly in 2013, when Queen Beatrix abdicated, the current Government found it "undesirable" that Máxima would be treated differently from her "colleagues". So they came with a -typical Dutch- ugly compromise:

For law she is and remains Princess of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau.

In "social context" she can be addressed with her husband's style (like all female spouses of titled gentlemen) and become known as "Queen Máxima".

Result: Her Majesty Queen Máxima, Princess of the Netherlands (!), Princess of Orange-Nassau.

I wished that the Government had just respected the law, because Máxima's own daughter Amalia will marry and her husband will be known as The Prince of the Netherlands. So there are we again.... Too bad that the one Government in 2002 regulated a gender neutral titulature but that another Government in 2013 changed its mind and respected the 2002 regulation at one hand but "uglied" it with a last-moment invention.



What is wrong with:

HM The King of Denmark
HRH The Princess-Consort

HM The Queen of Denmark
HRH The Prince-Consort

or

HM The King of the Netherlands
HRH The Princess of the Netherlands

HM The Queen of the Netherlands
HRH The Prince of the Netherlands
Reply With Quote
  #213  
Old 10-18-2015, 04:52 AM
Muhler's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 8,788
Due to PH having Alzheimer or something like that?
I've been thinking about that. The behavior can be very embarrassing for relatives, as you know, and there is very little you can do. QMII can't order the guards to hold him back, that's against the law. It's violence if you physically restrain an Alzheimer patient, unless he is in imminent danger.

But I don't think he suffers from anything in any advanced stage. Though he may now have become so fixated on the idea about becoming king that it clouds his better judgement.

We'll see, if PH is suddenly absent from the Indonesia trip or the next New Year Courts due to "illness", that could be an indication that his mind is deteriorating.

And what to do? Well, I imagine the family will hire nurses 24/7 and set up a quiet little ward somewhere, probably at Fredensborg or even better Marselisborg, where there is a large hospital nearby and plenty of experienced nurses to pick from. Here he can be visited by the family and should he run off, it will be difficult for him to go very far. (The standard GPS alarms only go off after a couple of hundred meters or more).

I can't see QMII abdicating because of that, but I can well imagine QMII moving in at say Marselisborg with PH during the last couple of years or so, to look after him. That would mean M&F will take over even more.
I can't imagine any public call for QMII to abdicate over that, on the contrary, she and PH will be showered with sympathy.
And QMII will still make an appearance from time to time and still be able to do a number of functions, even if Frederik is running the company on a daily basis.
Alternatively, he could be moved to Cayx, but that only makes it more difficult for family, friends and not least QMII to be around.


If I am to be honest I don't think gender-equality is or has ever been the biggest concern on PH's mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
What is wrong with:

HM The King of Denmark
HRH The Princess-Consort

HM The Queen of Denmark
HRH The Prince-Consort

or

HM The King of the Netherlands
HRH The Princess of the Netherlands

HM The Queen of the Netherlands
HRH The Prince of the Netherlands
Nothing wrong with that.

But why change something that works? And has been working since forever.
Why demote Mary and later Christian's wife, just because PH grumbles?
AFAIK PH is the only one for whom this is a serious issue. Britain - works fine. The Netherlands - worked fine.
Especially as it has no practical meaning whatsoever anyway.

No, IMO the core of this issue is that PH sees himself as the patriarch of the DRF, he has been treated as the patriarch of the family (except when it comes to the daily administration but I bet he would have loved to take over that as well) and he want's to remain the patriarch of the family as long as he lives.
Keep in mind that he ran off to France fairly shortly after Queen Ingrid died. Queen Ingrid being the matriarch of the DRF, also in traditional French context. Perhaps he imagined he should now take over completely? Only to discover that that's not the piano plays and that the court administration did not answer to him, but to QMII. - He complained how he was treated by the court officials remember.

Another core issue, again IMO, is that he is jealous of his son, and do not wish to be "subservient" to his son. By becoming "king" and "majesty" he perhaps imagine he will be somehow equal to his son - but he won't.
In PH's world view he will feel humiliated if he has to move from his ccurrent position at the right flank and down the line, when the family lines up to greet guests.
I think we can expect him to be "ill" at such events in the future.
Reply With Quote
  #214  
Old 10-18-2015, 04:55 AM
CrownPrincessJava's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ,, Australia
Posts: 357
Or why not make King and Queen gender neutral?
King = regent
Queen = consort

Language is evolutionary...
Reply With Quote
  #215  
Old 10-18-2015, 05:22 AM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: ***, Sweden
Posts: 1,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownPrincessJava View Post
Or why not make King and Queen gender neutral?
King = regent
Queen = consort

Language is evolutionary...
So you mean like... King Elizabeth and Queen Phillip? I think it's too soon in our society. Would be alot of dragqueen jokes etc. The King part might work but not the queen, not yet at least. What might work better might be The King and The Consort? Or even "Monarch & Consort".
Reply With Quote
  #216  
Old 10-18-2015, 05:41 AM
Muhler's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 8,788
But that's already covered anyway.
In legal context QMII is already the Monarch or the Regent. It's only in the Constitution that the word king has not been substituted with monarch.

Why confuse the issue by having a queen-regnant and a king-consort, when we all know that in daily use and in headlines it will be king and and queen anyway. And Joe and Jolene average reading the headlines will automatically assume the king is the top dog. Using the current method that is avoided.

We are talking about introducing equality into institutions that are conservative and based on a hierarchy, where people can be treated equal but no one is equal.
Example: According to the protocol Joachim and our Marie have the same status, but Joachim is Prince to Denmark, Marie is Princess of Denmark, so they are not equal.

Gender equality has already been introduces AFAIK now in all European monarchies. Which means that the firstborn, regardless of gender becomes the heir. That IMO is genuine gender equality. The issue of titles that's misunderstood political correctness.

Anyway, at some point in the future we will face a more interesting challenge in regards to titles:
Should it be King and King or King and Prince Consort?
Alternatively Queen and Queen or Queen and Princess Consort.

Because if PH is granted the title of king, then it will be King and King one day. - And now my head begins to hurt big time!
Reply With Quote
  #217  
Old 10-18-2015, 05:58 AM
Lee-Z's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Heerlen, Netherlands
Posts: 2,153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
No matter what title he has, he still holds the formally speaking second highest position in DK as long as QMII is alive. He can't go any higher! So what's the problem?
That might *be* the problem: he is dependent on his wife for his title. Even if he were to be called "king", when P.Frederik becomes the monarch, K.Hendrik will be demoted in position to come after his son and daughter in law (and possibly his grandson).

I think his pride is hurt or he feels emasculated, but these are things that he should work on, maybe with a therapist, not go blurting it out in the media...

imo obviously
__________________
Wisdom begins in wonder - Socrates
Reply With Quote
  #218  
Old 10-18-2015, 09:38 AM
Roslyn's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tintenbar, Australia
Posts: 3,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
That might *be* the problem: he is dependent on his wife for his title. Even if he were to be called "king", when P.Frederik becomes the monarch, K.Hendrik will be demoted in position to come after his son and daughter in law (and possibly his grandson).

I think his pride is hurt or he feels emasculated, but these are things that he should work on, maybe with a therapist, not go blurting it out in the media...

imo obviously
Henrik should have been working on these issues for the last 48 years. He must have known what he was taking on when he married Margarethe, and it really is time he came to terms with reality.
__________________
"That's it then. Cancel the kitchen scraps for lepers and orphans, no more merciful beheadings, -- and call off Christmas!!!"
Reply With Quote
  #219  
Old 10-18-2015, 09:51 AM
michelleq's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Philadelphia Region, United States
Posts: 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
The IMO frustrating thing about PH's complaints is that's about such trivial details.

PH is talking about equality within an institution that is based on inequality. The whole idea about having a monarch is that the monarch is above everybody else.
That alone leaves my head buzzing.

No matter what title he has, he still holds the formally speaking second highest position in DK as long as QMII is alive. He can't go any higher! So what's the problem?

If we compare PH and Mary in her future role, there will, as far as I can tell, be only two differences between them.
Mary will be titled queen and be addressed as majesty. - That's it.
Apart from that there will be no difference between them at all.

Mary will not have a Constitutional role either.
She will hold the second highest position in the country.
She will never be equal to her husband.
Should Frederik become ill during a New Year Court, she will probably address the guests on behalf of the family, while her son Christian, whom she hopefully isn't jealous on, will address the guests on behalf of the head of state.

Should Frederik die before Mary, Mary will have to walk behind Christian and his wife one day.

The difference between being titled a queen and a prince consort is comparable to calling a street-sweeper a Road Sanitation Technician - but he still sweeps the streets...
Very well put! I agree.
__________________
"Love thy neighbor as thyself"
Reply With Quote
  #220  
Old 10-18-2015, 12:44 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 1,277
When will this old fool finally keeps his mouth shut?
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
danish royals, i should be king, prince henrik, prince henrik king discussion


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Do Your Kids Play At Being Royalty? FarahJoy Royal Chit Chat 39 12-22-2011 04:40 AM
Not Royalty, but "close" to a "King" Sherelm Member Introductions 3 12-30-2009 07:59 AM




Popular Tags
ascot 2016 best gown best gown september 2016 best hat best outfit catherine middleton style coup d'etat crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mary fashion crown princess mette-marit current events duchess of cambridge dutch state visit e-mail elisabeth fashion poll free hosting grand duke jean greece kate middleton king abdullah ii king felipe king felipe vi king willem-alexander member introduction member watch monarchy new zealand nobel gala norway november 2016 october 2016 opening of parliament picture of the week prince bernhard prince charles princess beatrice hats princess marie princess mary princess mary daytime fashion princess mary fashion princess mary hats prince sverre magnus queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen letizia style queen mathilde queen mathildes outfits queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania royal fashion september 2016 state visit state visit to denmark succession sweden swedish royal family summer portraits 2016 the duchess of cambridge the duchess of cambridge casual wear the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge fashion the duchess of cambridge hats


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:43 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016
Jelsoft Enterprises