The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #101  
Old 09-11-2017, 09:17 AM
Sister Morphine's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: North Carolina, United States
Posts: 2,776
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elenath View Post
I think laws in Denmark and The Netherlands are not that different and my family are in the same position as the DRF. We believe my father has onset dimentia but he refuses to see his doctor. And his doctor refusus to examine him unless he gives consent. Things would be different if it were a medical necessity but it isn’t. This “limbo” doesn’t change untill dimentia gets so bad he becomes a danger to himself and those around him. At that point the courts would need to get involved. Frustrating to see...
I believe the laws regarding mental health are the same here in the United States. A person cannot be committed or forced to undergo psychiatric evaluation without their consent UNLESS they demonstrate a clear and present danger to themselves or others. The problem with dementia is that it can take a while to get to that stage, and by then, there's very little that can be done. Obviously we don't know how long PH has been sick, but it's likely been a while, with things only becoming dire recently.
__________________

__________________
"The grass was greener / The light was brighter / The taste was sweeter / The nights of wonder / With friends surrounded / The dawn mist glowing / The water flowing / The endless river / Forever and ever......"
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 09-11-2017, 12:02 PM
Muhler's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 9,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
Exactly. It could be, that his family has known something was wrong but he has refused to cooperate until now. Can you even do an assessment like that without the patient cooperating?
Yes and no. Strictly speaking you can't subject someone who is still considered of sound mindto an examination against their will. But there are ways around that, especially if the person really is suffering from dementia. You can "persuade" the person in question to undergo an examination or to give his/her consent to something. Even though that person may not fully understand what it is. It's simply a matter of how you present the issue. It happens all the time - quietly and simply out of necessity.
You may say that the patient is tricked into something, but it inevitably happens with the understanding of the relatives.
And once the diagnosis is there, saying Dementia, the courts will turn a blind eye. Keep in mind that people suffering from Dementia are not automatically declared unable to look after themselves. It takes a while, years perhaps. In the meantime they need care. It may be help to buy groceries, for that the caretaker needs money from the client and that can't be done without the consent of the client... so out of necessity...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownPrincessJava View Post
I'm not sure about Denmark, but in Australia, if family or medical practitioners believe there is just-cause for a mental health assessment, one can be performed without the consent of the patient. It all comes down to if the person is exhibiting behaviours that can cause themselves, or others harm. His outburst regarding his being King consort, his burial wishes etc wouldn't be enough. I believe other incidents have occurred for an assessment to be conducted.
The law in DK is very similar. But as I wrote above, there are ways around it.

I do not believe a man who is as proud as PH would willingly undergo a "head-examination". So somehow PH has been "persuaded" to undergo the examination. Whether he fully understood what kind of examination he was going through is another matter. He has also given his consent to undergo that examination - or more correctly - he could have refused to have undergone the examination the "doctor found medically prudent" to subject him to. - After all how many of us will refuse if our GP send us to the hospital to undergo "a routine-check"? I won't, I generally trust my doctors.
What happens next, if it hasn't already happened, is that PH will be subjected to a "visitation". Where he will quietly be assessed to ascertain the extent of his dementia. Especially whether he is able to look after himself and what help he needs from the local municipality. (that's not relevant in PH's case. But it's relevant for those healthcare people who already look after him.
After a while a visitation will determine that he is now unable to properly look after himself and it will be recommended to put him first in a "protected housing", followed by a nursing home.
By then the dementia will have progressed to the level that PH is likely to be considered unable to look after his own interests. The judge will take that report into consideration and rule PH unable to look after himself and appoint a guardian, most likely QMII, but it could be Frederik or Joachim as well.
By this time PH will be living in his own private nursing home in one of the palaces.
- And from then on it's only a matter of time...

Towards the end he is likely to revert to a stage of childhood and around the same time he will be very sensitive to being touched. (It's very unpleasant for him!) And he will no longer have a clue as to who it is who is around him, he is likely to recognize them, but he cannot comprehend the connection.

Dementia has different ways to go so to speak.

PH is in the stage where is reacting against the outside. In this case venting an anger and frustration towards QMII.
The next stage is where he is unable to distinguish time-periods and when he is talking he will be mixing up people and events from say the 60's with events in the 90's.
Later on he may begin to wander at night. It's pretty odd, but they tend to pace up and down the floor and corridors at night, always at night.
It's also around this time they tend to "run away". Not necessarily to escape from anything, but because they want to "go home". In PH's case that may be Indochina. Because that may be where he has the best and most fond memories.
At some point he may reverse his personality. Say a person who has always been shy may suddenly curse worse than any sailor or become something of an exhibitionist! (If that happens that will be around the time his younger grandchildren will stop visiting him, for obvious reasons.) Or a socially outgoing person may become very introvert.
And that brings us to one of the least mentioned aspects of Alzheimer: Sexual drive. Fortunately PH hasn't got a daughter, otherwise he could enter the stage where she becomes the focus for his sexual desires, simply because she physically reminds him of his wife, when she was younger. Many family-members have big problems handling that! Both sons and daughters.
He may also lose any comprehension of where he is and why. I have personally heard an Alzheimer client cry for help for hours, day after day. Because he did not understand where he was. Someone had put him in a room and left him there! Imagine you had been kidnapped, you would cry for help as well.
Others quietly go more and more blank. There must be some "pavlov-effect" still going on though. Because place them on a toilet-stool and things happen instantly!
One of the more heartbreaking conditions is where they are scared. They are scared when they leave their room to say eat. They don't know where they are, what they are supposed to do. They don't understand their surroundings and what people do. Imagine yourself as say an American suddenly finding yourself in downtown Calcutta. Somehow you know you are supposed to be there, but you don't understand anything. That's when they pitifully tell you they are scared and they are scared! So you calmly guide them to wherever they are supposed to go. And you can literally feel them relaxing.
At the very end the brain can no longer interpret and process sensory input. Especially sound and nerve endings become affected.
The brain apparently has a tendency to interpret nerve-inputs it cannot comprehend as pain.

- My wife works at a nursing home, she is not working with the clients living there, but clients still living in their own homes. But her office is there and since the majority of clients at the nursing home suffer from various stages of dementia I've met many dementia cases over the years, talked to them and sometimes helped them.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 09-11-2017, 12:18 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 9,419
Thank you Muhler for a very in depth look at what Henrik faces in the time to come. The more one knows, the more one realizes just how devastating these diseases can be not only on the person afflicted but their loved ones that fully witness the steady decline of their loved one.
__________________
“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.”
~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 09-11-2017, 01:16 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,227
God I don't want to know about this awful stuff. Poor Henrik is not the nicest man in the world but we know he has a tragic illness.
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 09-11-2017, 01:41 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 9,419
To quote Maya Angelou "When we know better, we do better".

With knowing what Henrik and the DRF are facing, we have a better understanding of what they're going through and why they're going through these difficult times.
__________________
“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.”
~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 09-11-2017, 02:25 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Small Town, United States
Posts: 339
Personality changes can be baffling in the early stages. I now realize that my mother was already in the early stages around the time my father died. She was convinced that people were throwing stones at her house at night, and also that people (including me) were stealing from her. Strangely enough, after she was far enough along to be living in a nursing home, she became a petty thief - if she saw something she liked sitting on a tabletop, etc., she took it. After my dad died, she took some of her grieving and anger out on my husband, but when her mind was really going, she changed her tune completely. If I came to visit her alone, her first words were ''where's L. why didn't he come with you?'' It was actually kind of funny, and my husband took it well. The mind is a strange thing.
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 09-11-2017, 07:57 PM
AdmirerUS's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 5,070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
Exactly. It could be, that his family has known something was wrong but he has refused to cooperate until now. Can you even do an assessment like that without the patient cooperating?
Nordic: Just my experience, but my Dad hoarded energy and craftiness to do all he could in physical checkups to conceal his growing issues. For years. In fact, he was able to conceal a lot FROM US for even as he lived with us. He had all the right answers when the "rubber was meeting the road." He could be fully logical, articulate and calm when it suited him - at the doctor's being the best example.

Sure, we knew there were problems, but he was fully functioning and making fairly good choices, even as he was being fairly awful about some things. And he used crankiness as a shield. He would insult us (quite intelligently, I'd point out) until we let up trying to figure out how to best help him.

We never knew how bad things were until one evening when he lost use of his legs, then recovered from that after the fire department showed up and then lost the ability again the next day. It was the physical degradation of this disease that follows the the social issues that brought things to a crisis.

Again, I ask anyone who has not lived through this disease to just ease off and quit evaluating the actions and reactions of the royal family. There are no easy solutions. There are few obvious signposts to follow. It's different which each onset of disease. We lose nothing if we are generous with public figures who just possibly might be physically and/or mentally ill. Gosh knows, I hope people are generous with me as I age.
__________________
"And the tabloid press will be a pain in the ass, as usual." - Royal Norway
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 09-11-2017, 08:27 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spring Hill, United States
Posts: 2,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elenath View Post
I think laws in Denmark and The Netherlands are not that different and my family are in the same position as the DRF. We believe my father has onset dimentia but he refuses to see his doctor. And his doctor refusus to examine him unless he gives consent. Things would be different if it were a medical necessity but it isn’t. This “limbo” doesn’t change untill dimentia gets so bad he becomes a danger to himself and those around him. At that point the courts would need to get involved. Frustrating to see...
As there is nothing that they can do to change the outcome, there is little incentive to abrogate a persons rights to make their own decisions, until they totally cannot do thus.
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 09-11-2017, 09:37 PM
MARG's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 6,851
We are a little luckier in some small way because when a driver turns 75 then 80 and every 2 years thereafter they have to be tested for competency. The test is performed by your family GP and it highlights a lot of dementia cases. Unfortunately if you don't drive it can get missed.

Seemingly out of the blue my mother announced she was moving into a studio unit at a retirement home that catered for the elderly all the way to nursing home and a specialised dementia unit. She knew something wasn't right and made preparations. She was later diagnosed with Alzheimer's. She didn't speak at all for the last 8-10 years of her life and she didn't recognise us for at least the last 5.
__________________
MARG
"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are assaults of thoughts on the unthinking." - JM Keynes
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 09-11-2017, 10:37 PM
ashelen's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: la, United States
Posts: 2,829
It is so sad, I am sure this had been for a while and had been escalated lately, this is he retired last year! I can not imagine how difficult for QMII . Though he will have the best care possible! I know somebody who is now forgetting all the time things, he looks normal and can keep a good conversation but you have to tell him things 20 times, also he refuses go to the doctor , physically he is probably better than somebody half his age because he exercise everyday but you can see the brain going......and it is scary how do you take away the driver license from them? you can not make them to understand what they have because they are in denial!
it is really sad! Here in the US medical insurance does not cover if you have demencia, only Alzheimer so I do not know how people deal with it!
__________________
Ashelen
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 09-13-2017, 08:56 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: san diego, United States
Posts: 6,748
Joachim at an event today spoke a little on his father's illness
Prins Joachim om Henriks demens: Det rammer os hårdt | Realityportalen
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Queen Margrethe II & Prince Henrik, Current Events Part 6: July 2017 - iceflower Queen Margrethe II and Prince Henrik 157 11-19-2017 02:51 AM
Crown Princess Mary's Eveningwear Part 17: September 2016 - September 2017 iceflower Archives 417 09-05-2017 07:45 AM
Queen Margrethe II & Prince Henrik, Current Events Part 5: November 2015 - July 2017 iceflower Current Events Archive 494 07-18-2017 07:26 AM
Prince Nikolai, Prince Felix and Prince Henrik, News 1: July 2009 - February 2012 Mandy Current Events Archive 256 02-05-2012 09:00 AM
Queen Margrethe and Prince Henrik's Official Visit to Germany: September 5, 2003 Alexandria Queen Margrethe II and Prince Henrik 5 06-26-2010 10:58 PM




Popular Tags
austria best outfit birthday carl gustaf chris o'neill crown princess mary crown princess mary fashion crown princess victoria current events denmark earl of snowdon fashion poll general news grand duke henri hereditary grand duchess stéphanie hereditary grand duke guillaume infanta cristina infanta leonor infanta sofia iñaki urdangarín king felipe king felipe vi king philippe king willem-alexander letizia liechtenstein monarchy morgan news picture of the week prince alexander prince carl philip prince daniel prince felix prince gabriel prince harry prince harry of wales prince nicholas prince oscar princess beatrice princess claire of luxembourg princess estelle princess leonore princess madeleine princess of asturias princess sofia princess sofia eveningwear princess victoria queen elizabeth ii queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen mathilde queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania queen rania fashion queen silvia state visit stephanie sweden swedish royal family the duchess of cambridge fashion vatican victoria



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:47 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017
Jelsoft Enterprises