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  #161  
Old 02-16-2005, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SalSabeel
Princess Haya is Jordanian .... Never was Emarati and never will be...
Where is the problem then. She is Jordanian, she lives in Dubai because she is with her husband there. Isn't it normal?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SalSabeel
what ever she does she can't win their love
I don't see this either a problem, it's the husband love which matter and that's enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SalSabeel
she is considered an outsider
Normal, many emirati men married outsider women. I really wonder why???
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Originally Posted by SalSabeel
The more she tries the more there will be people against her....
This one I don't really understand it?! People go at the opposite of the wind direction?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SalSabeel
This is my opinion and what i see and hear from different Emrataies
Above is also my opinion ... and I believe there are plenty of people who love Haya.
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  #162  
Old 02-16-2005, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abir
Where is the problem then. She is Jordanian, she lives in Dubai because she is with her husband there. Isn't it normal?
I don't see this either a problem, it's the husband love which matter and that's enough.
Normal, many emirati men married outsider women. I really wonder why???
This one I don't really understand it?! People go at the opposite of the wind direction?!
Above is also my opinion ... and I believe there are plenty of people who love Haya.
TOTALLY agree with you Abir.... I bet the person you quoted is going to comment on your post. This person is another "El Jood" if not the same person with 2 user names...
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  #163  
Old 02-18-2005, 10:28 AM
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Haya Will Always be considered an unwanted person
not because she is jordanian no there are many people who marry foreginers, But in this case Haya married a MARRIED MAN who has only One OFFICIAL WIFE.
Just Imagen King Abudullah getting married to a second wife who is not from Jordan and queen Rania has done alot for her socitety people will no accept her because their love to Rania.
Its the same case here...People Love Sh. HInd and they hated this to happen to her....
I dont know why people here try to make it OK and right what haya has done...
Getting married to sh .mohammed this is something over but now she is trying to get into the Emarati Socitey which will never be accpeted
she just can't see how much they dislike her....
and never will love her
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  #164  
Old 02-18-2005, 01:22 PM
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Hi SalSabeel,

I think many people here know any woman feeling if her husband gets married to a second wife. In another side, we are not in a position to discuss PRIVATE lives of others; since we donít know why it happened and what happened for a specific couple.
As you agreed, polygamy is a social taboo in uae and in many other countries, so we can discuss it in Royal chit chat or in a separate thread within ME forum. It will be an interesting discussion without hearting anybody.
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  #165  
Old 02-18-2005, 06:36 PM
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SalSabeel
I dont know why people here try to make it OK and right what haya has done.


I can't speak for everyone else on here, but what I have to say is this...Like I told another member on here once before, I can still like someone even if I don't always agree with some of things they may do or say..So yes, I still like Princess Haya, but her personal business is just that. With that being said, it isn't any of my business anyhow about the whos or whys of their relationship. I'm not saying the marriage is right, but I'm not going to say it is wrong, either. The truth be told, I'm not going to judge either way. It isn't my place to anyhow. I think I said that several times before as well. Besides, no matter how much people complain or moan about this marriage, what's done is done. They are husband and wife unless otherwise something should happen to change that. What I would like to know is this: Is Shk Mo the only important man in Dubai or the UAE with more than one wife?
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  #166  
Old 02-18-2005, 07:57 PM
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Hi Someone....
I guess here its not because Sh. Mohammed is the most important person in dubai although he is...
nor because of PH
anyone else who would of been sh. Mohammed Second wife wouldn't be accpeted here because what i know people there love his first Wife Sheikha Hind....
Its is true this is their personal life but in sheikh Mohammed position he is a public person and like other royals some of his actions do effect his community.
Like in Kuwait do you know that if the mother is non Kuwaity or the wife is non Kuwaity they can never Rule Kuwait even if it was their turn
So in the UAE i guess people still can't accept their 1st lady to be a foreginer besides the reasons i mentioned earlier
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  #167  
Old 02-18-2005, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SalSabeel
Hi Someone....
I guess here its not because Sh. Mohammed is the most important person in dubai although he is...
nor because of PH
anyone else who would of been sh. Mohammed Second wife wouldn't be accpeted here because what i know people there love his first Wife Sheikha Hind....
Its is true this is their personal life but in sheikh Mohammed position he is a public person and like other royals some of his actions do effect his community.
Like in Kuwait do you know that if the mother is non Kuwaity or the wife is non Kuwaity they can never Rule Kuwait even if it was their turn
So in the UAE i guess people still can't accept their 1st lady to be a foreginer besides the reasons i mentioned earlier


Hi SalSabeel. Welcome to TRF by the way. I would like to say thanks for responding intelligently, and without being rude. I guess it's how one looks at a situation, and take in account other factors, but I still say even a public figure should at least be entitled to have a private life. I can't see how the marriage might hurt the community. I can see how if may affect Shka Hind, but even then I say that cautiously because I really don't know how any of them feel personally because we don't have their say. Also, I thought Shka Hind was first lady, and PH is second wife?
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  #168  
Old 04-04-2005, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houri
I just don't understand when people in west try to dismiss our opinion about important people from our area and sharing with us the same culture .

I understand the differences between our cultures and I respect that and I hope you all do the same :) .



Very true, not only does everyone have the right to express their opinions without being totally dismissed, but since you are in fact expressing opinions of the people in your own area, your opinions are quite valuable indeed since you know better. I would implore you, El Jood, and Suria to please NOT stop posting just because you've been hurt by some, because there are others who are very much interested in your opinions. And isn't one of the points of expressing your opinions to get people thinking, to get a reaction no matter it be positive or negative? Please do not be disheartened, your opinions are well respected, those members who dismissed your opinions feel just as strongly about their own opinions that's why they came on a bit too strong, I'm sure they didn't mean to be rude or hurtful, it's just that when you are not face to face sometimes things can come out wrong. I hope you will continue to post and to share, sometimes you have to take other people in your stride, it doesn't make it right, but sometimes you just have to.

-Eliza
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  #169  
Old 04-05-2005, 01:33 AM
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From watching the Dubai World Cup on the TV Mo's sons seemed quite keen on Haya. I'm sure that they respect their mothers place in Mo's life and her choices re not being socially visable. However, Mo does spend a lot of the time in our Western world and I am sure that Haya is an asset to him in that respect seeing that she was educated in Britain and shares his interest in things equine.

I must say that I was really impressed with what I saw of Dubai during the World Cup telecast & have made myself a note that I must visit next time I can afford to go to Europe. :) :) :)
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  #170  
Old 04-05-2005, 01:11 PM
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I totally did not mean to be hurtful or disrespectful. I have to admit that I am a bit ignorant on this issue of polygamy. I thought that that was considered normal in Muslim countries and so I did not understand why some ppl were mad? If Islam allows up to four wives thant why is it an issue for Sheikh Mo to take Haya as another wife?
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  #171  
Old 04-05-2005, 03:19 PM
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no need to be sorry Reina :)

In Islam if you want to have more than one wife you should be equalitarian to those wifes in every thing , you should treating them all in the same manner .
because of that a lot of muslims men have just one wife because it is difficult to be fair to them all .
I can understand that mo can offer to open more than one house and have more than one wife but I don't see that he can handle the affectional side and can be fair to all his wifes ( I am not sure if you understnad me ) but I can't believe that there is man in the world have more than one heart :)
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  #172  
Old 04-05-2005, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reina
I totally did not mean to be hurtful or disrespectful. I have to admit that I am a bit ignorant on this issue of polygamy. I thought that that was considered normal in Muslim countries and so I did not understand why some ppl were mad? If Islam allows up to four wives thant why is it an issue for Sheikh Mo to take Haya as another wife?

I wouldnt call it normal. I think in some ME countries it is common but in other Muslim countries its very rare and in others its banned. There are many Muslims, including scholars, who believe that polygamy has no place in today's society. It was prescribed during the early, chaotic days of Islam when the Muslim community was in it infancy and lived in an almost constant state of war and persecution. Polygamy was meant to extend protection at that time to women who had lost husbands, fathers etc and to prevent them from resorting to desperate means like prostitution. But that was 1400 years ago. None of those conditions exist now. But ofcourse that doesnt stop men and even women from living in polygamous relationships today.
As for Haya, when she first married Sheikh Muhammad, a lot of us were surprised that she'd enter into such a relationship. But that debate is over. Most of us agreed that she's an intelligent, independent woman who knows her mind.
As for certain members who seem to have a deep dislike of her, it has little to do with polygamy. Its just Haya-bashing for no apparent reason. Just like many other royals on this board have their admirers, they have critics. Im sure you know that some members only show up here to belittle certain royals, including Haya.
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  #173  
Old 04-05-2005, 07:23 PM
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I've had a lot of discussions about the history of polygamy with my Muslim friends and what they said is very similar to what Humera says, but there was another reason, when Islam spread (and it didn't spread through violence, by the way, as is the common misconception) to outside the Arabia, there were many places where there were more women converting to Islam than there were men--Islam was probably the first religion to have a relatively modern view of women's rights, and women were granted a lot more equality in Islam than in other religions, this attracted many women to Islam along with Islam's other policies. Since there were a lot more Muslim women than there were men, there was a problem for them when the time came to marry. So, according to muslim's, polygamy like Humera said was meant to prevent women from resorting to desperate measures like prostitution. Polygamy does not really have a historical basis in the Western society, but history has shown us that that did not stop many western Kings and Presidents from physically using multiple women--there is no evidence of that in Islam. However, today a vast majority of Muslims are in monogamous relationships, those that aren't are required to treat all their wives equally. While, those that are in polygamous relationships are in the minoirty, they are more prominent to us because to us polygamy is shocking...don't mormons practice polygamy too?

I do agree, however, that members who have formed a negative view of haya, have not done so because she's in a polygamous relationship, I believe from the posts I have read that it's because Sheikha Hind is more loved and more popular and it's difficult because of this to accept Haya. There is a very similar situation in UK right now, Camilla may very well have been accepted had people not admired and respected and loved Diana. Because of their love and respect for Diana, people find it difficult to accept Camilla, especially since many feel that if they do accept Camilla they will be disrespecting Diana and her memory. As evidence of this: many Britons are okay with Camilla having the title of Duchess of Cornwall, but not with having the title Princess of Wales, which was Diana's title. Though Haya and Camilla are not by any means comparable, the situation they find themselves in as far as public opinion goes is pretty much analogous.


-Eliza
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  #174  
Old 04-05-2005, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elizahawthorne
I've had a lot of discussions about the history of polygamy with my Muslim friends and what they said is very similar to what Humera says, but there was another reason, when Islam spread (and it didn't spread through violence, by the way, as is the common misconception) to outside the Arabia, there were many places where there were more women converting to Islam than there were men--Islam was probably the first religion to have a relatively modern view of women's rights, and women were granted a lot more equality in Islam than in other religions, this attracted many women to Islam along with Islam's other policies. Since there were a lot more Muslim women than there were men, there was a problem for them when the time came to marry. So, according to muslim's, polygamy like Humera said was meant to prevent women from resorting to desperate measures like prostitution. Polygamy does not really have a historical basis in the Western society, but history has shown us that that did not stop many western Kings and Presidents from physically using multiple women--there is no evidence of that in Islam. However, today a vast majority of Muslims are in monogamous relationships, those that aren't are required to treat all their wives equally. While, those that are in polygamous relationships are in the minoirty, they are more prominent to us because to us polygamy is shocking...don't mormons practice polygamy too?

I do agree, however, that members who have formed a negative view of haya, have not done so because she's in a polygamous relationship, I believe from the posts I have read that it's because Sheikha Hind is more loved and more popular and it's difficult because of this to accept Haya. There is a very similar situation in UK right now, Camilla may very well have been accepted had people not admired and respected and loved Diana. Because of their love and respect for Diana, people find it difficult to accept Camilla, especially since many feel that if they do accept Camilla they will be disrespecting Diana and her memory. As evidence of this: many Britons are okay with Camilla having the title of Duchess of Cornwall, but not with having the title Princess of Wales, which was Diana's title. Though Haya and Camilla are not by any means comparable, the situation they find themselves in as far as public opinion goes is pretty much analogous.


-Eliza
yes you're right. though I think that its one reason to not accept someone and totally another to disparage them and call them a homewrecker and gold digger. That just shows a meanness of character and nature.
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  #175  
Old 04-05-2005, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~Humera~*~
As for Haya, when she first married Sheikh Muhammad, a lot of us were surprised that she'd enter into such a relationship. But that debate is over. Most of us agreed that she's an intelligent, independent woman who knows her mind.
I'm not sure this is a representative view.

Quote:
Its just Haya-bashing for no apparent reason.
No, I really don't think it is. Within the culture she is operating in, there are some legitimate reasons to criticize P. Haya. To call it bashing is an attempt, I think, to trivialize explanations and reasons that you may not agree with. But most of the people who hold these views either are nationals of the region or have lived there/worked there. So it is really quite unfair to discount these views. You may not agree, that is certainly your right, but to pull out the bash word is really a cheap shot and disrespectful to others who may actually have better information. :(
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  #176  
Old 04-05-2005, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by papillon
I'm not sure this is a representative view.
whether you agree or disagree, most people know she's an educated, independent woman, especially for someone who lost her mother at a very young age and didnt always have her father's undivided attention.


Quote:
No, I really don't think it is. Within the culture she is operating in, there are some legitimate reasons to criticize P. Haya. To call it bashing is an attempt, I think, to trivialize explanations and reasons that you may not agree with. But most of the people who hold these views either are nationals of the region or have lived there/worked there. So it is really quite unfair to discount these views. You may not agree, that is certainly your right, but to pull out the bash word is really a cheap shot and disrespectful to others who may actually have better information. :(
Perhaps you haven't heard some of these so-called arguments? Im referring to those that are based on malicious hatred. I dont have to name names. It is bashing plain and simple. It has been going on for more than a year and some of the members who have engaged in it are either now banned or no longer post here. Those people were warned continuously by various mods and criticized by many members. Perhaps you dont have all the information about the people Im referring to. The so-called "this is our culture" argument holds Sheikh Muhammad responsible for nothing and lays all the blame on Haya as if she cast a spell on him, rendering him unable to use his head. In polygamous marriages it is often the women who are blamed as home wreckers. I have heard the argument that certain people dont like her because in the UAE, they dont like people to marry foreigners. The argument has often taken racial/racist overtones, ie, Sheikh Muhammad's first wife is better because she is of pure UAE blood and so are her children. Like there was even a UAE a hundred years ago. I wasnt born in the west and nor am a "westerner" but I know a narrow, superior, and backward point-of-view when I hear one. I dont care who says things like that. It is even worse when I hear things like that from fellow Muslims.
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  #177  
Old 04-05-2005, 08:29 PM
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Well going along with the we shouldn't just bash the wives point that went on in another thread: I think ppl are looking at Haya too much. Sheikh Mohammed is a powerful, independent man. He wanted Haya as a second wife and now he has her. If you want to bash anyone bash him. Gosh I hope I did not impinge on anyone's cultural/geographical rights here.
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  #178  
Old 04-05-2005, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ~*~Humera~*~
As for Haya, when she first married Sheikh Muhammad, a lot of us were surprised that she'd enter into such a relationship. But that debate is over. Most of us agreed that she's an intelligent, independent woman who knows her mind.
As for certain members who seem to have a deep dislike of her, it has little to do with polygamy. Its just Haya-bashing for no apparent reason. Just like many other royals on this board have their admirers, they have critics. Im sure you know that some members only show up here to belittle certain royals, including Haya.



Well said, Humera. I was thinking some of the same things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by papillon
I'm not sure this is a representative view.


No, I really don't think it is. Within the culture she is operating in, there are some legitimate reasons to criticize P. Haya. To call it bashing is an attempt, I think, to trivialize explanations and reasons that you may not agree with. But most of the people who hold these views either are nationals of the region or have lived there/worked there. So it is really quite unfair to discount these views. You may not agree, that is certainly your right, but to pull out the bash word is really a cheap shot and disrespectful to others who may actually have better information. :(


I'm going to have to disagree with you, Papillion. I noticed that you began posting again recently because I hadn't read any of your posts in a long while. The point I'm trying to make is while you were not posting, there was bashing going on in PH's thread.....So much that it became one of the reasons the Middle Eastern forum was shut down, and some members were banned. I mean I agree, people are entitled to their opinions, but a lot of the stuff that was written went way beyond negative criticism. I don't have a problem with members not liking certain royals...that's their prerogative. I don't have a problem with members having negative opinions of certain royals...that's also their prerogative. It does become a problem when opinions go from being critical of someone to just an all out bash fest...unfortunately, that was what PH's threads had begun to turn into, and because of it, some members began to shy away from posting in her forum.
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  #179  
Old 04-05-2005, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~Humera~*~
whether you agree or disagree, most people know she's an educated, independent woman, especially for someone who lost her mother at a very young age and didnt always have her father's undivided attention.
Well, earlier you described her as intelligent, not educated. . .there's a difference between the two.

Quote:
Perhaps you haven't heard some of these so-called arguments?
I've been a member of this forum for quite some time, so I am well familiar.

Quote:
Perhaps you dont have all the information about the people Im referring to.
I do. It's been a visible issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sommone
I noticed that you began posting again recently because I hadn't read any of your posts in a long while. The point I'm trying to make is while you were not posting, there was bashing going on in PH's thread.....So much that it became one of the reasons the Middle Eastern forum was shut down, and some members were banned.
But I've been reading the threads all along, so I am as aware of these issues as anyone else who's been following this forum.
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  #180  
Old 04-05-2005, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papillon
But I've been reading the threads all along, so I am as aware of these issues as anyone else who's been following this forum.


Great..then you are aware that there was indeed bashing going on particularly in PH's thread. So it isn't disrespectful of Humera to point that out. She's only telling the truth.
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