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  #361  
Old 10-23-2006, 01:15 AM
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Has anyone ever given consideration that maybe she didn't have a choice in the matter?????? This is royalty and even today in many, many families, the bride and even the groom do not have much say. It's arranged by the parents or other family members to strengthen ties between factions, tribes, governments for political and/or dominence reasons.

The latest generation in some of the Western royal families are moving away from this but not all. Do you really think Charles wanted to marry Diana? How about the current Queen and her husband, Prince Philip (Greek royal family)? There are examples of marriages not being fixed, of course, but they tend not to be directly in the line of succession. And the Middle East still clings to tradition a bit more.....
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  #362  
Old 10-23-2006, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Friend
Has anyone ever given consideration that maybe she didn't have a choice in the matter?????? This is royalty and even today in many, many families, the bride and even the groom do not have much say. It's arranged by the parents or other family members to strengthen ties between factions, tribes, governments for political and/or dominence reasons.

The latest generation in some of the Western royal families are moving away from this but not all. Do you really think Charles wanted to marry Diana? How about the current Queen and her husband, Prince Philip (Greek royal family)? There are examples of marriages not being fixed, of course, but they tend not to be directly in the line of succession. And the Middle East still clings to tradition a bit more.....
True. I do remember at the time of the marriage, Time magazine speculated as much, although didn't say that outright.
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  #363  
Old 10-23-2006, 09:58 AM
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the two dated at least a year prior to marriage. there are pics of them at horse sales. i don't know if it was arranged, but i get the feeling that this was two adults that had a say in the relationship. i think haya knew what she was getting into.
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  #364  
Old 10-23-2006, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss b
the two dated at least a year prior to marriage. there are pics of them at horse sales. i don't know if it was arranged, but i get the feeling that this was two adults that had a say in the relationship. i think haya knew what she was getting into.
it wouldnt be an arranged marriage if they were dating. she is old enough to know what she was doing and where it was leading her to.
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  #365  
Old 10-23-2006, 11:05 AM
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In an interview with a German newspaper (published in April 2004; she is rather popular in Germany because she lived here for a while) she told the journalist that she met her future husband in 2001 at a horse event and was secretly engaged to him for three years before she asked her brother King Abdullah for permission to marry him. Only the day before her marriage she called the rest of the family to invite them. She asked her grandmother to provide for flowers and a cake. The dress for the marriage had been made for here by a small sewing works in Amman to keep it secret. The next day there was lunch in King Abdullah’s house. “That was it”.
She said that she is living with her husband like other couples, that she doesn’t think a lot about the fact that she is “the second wife”. “This is not an issue. Everybody can see that I am Sheikh Mohammed’s wife.” She concedes that before the marriage she took her time to think thoroughly about the step into a polygamous marriage. “The matter is not to possess somebody. I love this man, therefore I respect the fact that he had married somebody else before.” “What is better: to live like this or to divorce, to repudiate somebody, expel her from the family.”

http://www.wams.de/data/2006/04/16/874849.html

Sorry, my translation is far from being perfect.

Obviously the marriage was not an arranged one.
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  #366  
Old 10-23-2006, 11:32 AM
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Ok...I don't understand what she means in the last sentence? Live like what? Expel her from whose family?
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  #367  
Old 10-23-2006, 11:49 AM
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i think she is referring to hind. my understanding is that sheikha hind is very much in the picture. hind is not a cast off sort of wife. sheikh mo and she are very much still a couple. i love she said second wife. she is his third or fourth. obviously she was not important enough for mo to divorce hind or his other wife or wives.
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  #368  
Old 10-23-2006, 11:50 AM
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Ok...I don't understand what she means in the last sentence? Live like what? Expel her from whose family?
She wanted to say that it is better to live in a polygamous marriage than to banish one of the wifes - in this case Sheikha Hind - (or cast her out) from the family (of Sheikh Mohammed).
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  #369  
Old 10-23-2006, 11:53 AM
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that is a pretty ballsy thing for her to say. from friends who have lived in dubai, sheikha hind is very much loved and respected. don't hear the same thing about haya. i don't think haya had anymore say whether hind went or stayed than i did. mo would have been an outcast if she booted hind.
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  #370  
Old 10-23-2006, 12:10 PM
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Sheikha Hind is a very respected women in Dubai, unlike Haya. She is not given any attention by the people, also to mention she mainly lives abroad its only when she has an event to attend shell be in Dubai. Also, she is trying very hard for people to accept her but no one is.
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  #371  
Old 10-23-2006, 12:13 PM
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The article mentions explicitely only two wives and calls her the sheikh’s "First Lady, but not the only wife on his side".

I can’t help thinking that she is the "modern First Lady of Dubai" for Westeners and Sheikha Hind is Mo’s most prominent wife for the Emiratis. If the other 1-2 are still his wives or divorced I do not know.

If Haya accepted this arrangement because she loved him so much or because she is now able to play a prominent role on the international scene is difficult to say.
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  #372  
Old 10-23-2006, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss b
i love she said second wife. she is his third or fourth. obviously she was not important enough for mo to divorce hind or his other wife or wives.
Who would admit that they are a second, third or fourth wife? But to my understanding she is the fourth. Sheikh Mohammed would not leave Sheikha Hind. Their marriage was on the rocks some years back, he did anything he could to save it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veram98
The article mentions explicitely only two wives and calls her the sheikh’s "First Lady, but not zhe only wife on his side".

I can’t help thinking that she is the "modern First Lady of Dubai" for Westeners and Sheikha Hind is Mo’s most prominent wife for the Emiratis. If the other 1-2 are still his wives or divorced I do not know.
First Lady? intresting since she is not the first official wife. I assume the west press refers to her as that since she is with Sheikh Mohammed in public and is allowed to be photographed, that would lead to their impression as the First Lady of dubai.
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  #373  
Old 10-23-2006, 01:24 PM
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Haya has just arrived in Dubai, she can not be as much loved as any other sheikha. But it's just that the hashemite family seemed and seems to be such a modern one! I wonder what king hussein would have thought if he was still alive about his daughter marrying sheikh Mohamed. Well, you never know, it may be an arranged marriage. Maybe the two of them were introduced on purpose, started dating and then got married, and then the person who introduced them got what she was looking for.
Haya may not be telling the truth in this interview, who knows.
But these are just my speculations... Anyway I just can't understand why she went on with this man...
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  #374  
Old 10-23-2006, 02:40 PM
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if you polled the western world, i am sure there would be a small percentage of people who would recognize princess haya's picture or name. most probably could care less about her. western press just doesn't know how to deal with it, so they stick first lady after her name. sheikha fatima is considered the first lady of the uae. there is no first lady of dubai, and if there was, that title would go to sheikha hind. posters from the uae might want to verify this statement or disagree with it. that is my understanding from my friends in the uae.
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  #375  
Old 10-23-2006, 02:45 PM
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I think it's obvious that she is in love with him and she would not be the first (modern) woman doing strange things just for love.

He is obviously a polygamous man used to be married to several wives. Maybe he is even able to love more than one woman. IMO one further reason to marry her (besides love?) was that he wanted to have his own QRania-LallaSalma-Asma-al-Assad like First Lady to the outside world to enhance his standing as a modern ruler for the Western world, all the investors and tourists from there. Sheikha Hind with her family connections and prestige in Dubai and the UAE is part of the inner power structure there and consolidates his rule in this way. He is a very clever man.
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  #376  
Old 10-23-2006, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss b
if you polled the western world, i am sure there would be a small percentage of people who would recognize princess haya's picture or name. most probably could care less about her. western press just doesn't know how to deal with it, so they stick first lady after her name. sheikha fatima is considered the first lady of the uae. there is no first lady of dubai, and if there was, that title would go to sheikha hind. posters from the uae might want to verify this statement or disagree with it. that is my understanding from my friends in the uae.
Yes that its correct. Sheikha Fatima is referred as "the first lady". But as other rulers wifes, they are not.
I think the western press would reffer Sheikha Hind as the first lady if she was out photographed with her husband but she isnt, so Haya got the title. I think her press office should make something cleared up because its not a small mistake which can be repeated over and over. Not to forget at the FEI opening at Aachen, she was reffered to princess of jordan and dubai, no correction was done when it shouldve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veram98
I think it's obvious that she is in love with him and she would not be the first (modern) woman doing strange things just for love.

He is obviously a polygamous man used to be married to several wives. Maybe he is even able to love more than one woman. IMO one further reason to marry her (besides love?) was that he wanted to have his own QRania-LallaSalma-Asma-al-Assad like First Lady to the outside world to enhance his standing as a modern ruler for the Western world, all the investors and tourists from there. Sheikha Hind with her family connections and prestige in Dubai and the UAE is part of the inner power structure there and consolidates his rule in this way. He is a very clever man.
I get your point, but i disagree when you say " to enhance his standing as a modern ruler for the Western world" because a man does not need to be modern with having a wife who accompines you to events and so on. A person is modern in the way he thinks and deals with things. A person marries when they want and not to please the western world.
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  #377  
Old 10-23-2006, 03:04 PM
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I hope that his first reason to marry her was love (while he loved Sheikha Hind, too?). But she was not only the cute girl Haya (she really is). Other things certainly helped: that she is a Hashemite and royal princess and somebody he could take with him, somebody who is able to play a role on the international scene (and not only at home like his other wive(s), who prefer the traditional role of an Arab woman).
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  #378  
Old 10-23-2006, 03:06 PM
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Princess Haya is the public wife, the "trophy" as it were. She brings a lot of good reputation and PR to the royalty and business of Dubai, especially because of her international renown in the equestrian field, where the Dubai royalty has large, various, far-reaching investments. She is the only wife who has any public role, as I can see it so far. She is a beautiful, Westernized, educated princess, a sort of Queen Rania, as Veram says; she makes Dubai look very good from an international perspective.
That is what she brings to the table.
But what is in it for her? Money?
I understand fully that the Dubai family has billions, much more than Haya's family, but still, she was doing quite well even though now she certainly is wealthier. The money is a weak argument for what she has gained, in my opinion. The money is not likely to be the sole explanation. It might be a factor, but cannot possibly be the whole story. She had money, yet wanted more? I don't know....She must gain much more, but what? Love? While I don't doubt these two like and respect each other, I find it difficult to believe they are a fairy-tale love story. The arrangement is too convenient from a business standpoint to be romantic in nature.
Any other/more ideas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzling
Not to forget at the FEI opening at Aachen, she was reffered to princess of jordan and dubai, no correction was done when it shouldve.
In the European royal houses, if you are born a Princess of X, then you are a Princess of X for life. Even when you marry and take your husband's title, becoming Princess of Y, you remain Princess of X and Y. For example, Princess Caroline of Monaco remained a Princess of Monaco when she married the Prince of Hanover, so it is fine to say Caroline of Monaco, the Princess of Hanover, or HRH the Princess of Hanover.
Is that not the case in the UAE royalty or Jordanian royalty? Haya is not a Princess of Jordan for life, but was only Princess of Jordan before her marriage?
Her Dubai title seems to be her lesser title anyway. As Princess of Jordan, she is HRH, whereas it seems the Dubai royalty is only HH. Please correct me if I am wrong. I am just learning about the Dubai royalty.
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  #379  
Old 10-23-2006, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
In the European royal houses, if you are born a Princess of X, then you are a Princess of X for life. Even when you marry and take your husband's title, becoming Princess of Y, you remain Princess of X and Y. For example, Princess Caroline of Monaco remained a Princess of Monaco when she married the Prince of Hanover, so it is fine to say Caroline of Monaco, the Princess of Hanover, or HRH the Princess of Hanover.
Is that not the case in the UAE royalty or Jordanian royalty? Haya is not a Princess of Jordan for life, but was only Princess of Jordan before her marriage?
Her Dubai title seems to be her lesser title anyway. As Princess of Jordan, she is HRH, whereas it seems the Dubai royalty is only HH. Please correct me if I am wrong. I am just learning about the Dubai royalty.
Thanks for clarifying the X and Y thing and i understand where they get it from but it is not done that way in this region.

Yes correct HRH is her tiiel in the UAE the titles are HH. Haya's title is higher than HH (i hope someone can correct me, but im pretty sure that it)

As in press in the Area/region she is refferred too as wife of sheikh Mohammed not as jordan and dubai princess. So maybe the west adapted their syatem of refferring titles to Haya when it does not happen in the arab world.
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  #380  
Old 10-23-2006, 05:33 PM
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Thank you very much for the article.

I realy wonder what does she mean with:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veram98
she told the journalist that she met her future husband in 2001 at a horse event and was secretly engaged to him for three years before she asked her brother King Abdullah for permission to marry him. Only the day before her marriage she called the rest of the family to invite them.
Was she secretely engaged without the knowledge of her family?
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