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  #201  
Old 04-06-2005, 11:12 PM
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well there are some sensitive feelings and some sensitive questions but I don't believe anyone was being rude or was bullying anyone. I think most of us are just trying to learn about things and ideas that are new to us and others are trying to explain those things and ideas, it's really quite as simple as that...though there is a potential for major altercation, but it hasn't happened yet and I don't believe it will because all of us understand the process: ask questions try to be civil, answer them try to be civil. And I haven't really seen anyone resort to personal attacks, which is what would be considered bullying, but again there is potential for that.

There will always be misunderstandings which is what happens when you are communicating exclusively by written communication.

-Eliza
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  #202  
Old 04-06-2005, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elizahawthorne
Errrm. I think you misunderstand what El Jood said she meant Sheikha Hind is well-loved and it's difficult to accept Haya when they already love sheikha hind so much, i think this sentiment is understandable because they feel that if they accord P Haya with any amount of love or respect they will be disrespecting sheikha hind who is sheikh mo's first wife and whom they really love, respect, and admire.

As for your second point, "It is not like Haya held him at gun point and forced him to marry her... he consented" if you read earlier posts, those people who are against Haya for marrying Sheikh Mo are well aware of the fact that Sheikh Mo was an equal participant, but since this is P Haya's thread they don;t criticize sheikh mo here because it'd be off-topic

personally, I think that it is not our place to judge, but it is inevitable when you have public figures and they do something that shocks you. Many of those people who are against Haya have maintained that they actually like Haya, just not some of the choices she has made--while I don't agree, I think her choices are her choices it is her personal matter and I'm not going to judge her or sheikh mo based on thier personal choices...I certainly understand where those who don't like Haya's choices are coming from. Isn't one of the reasons why we're here to discuss and understand one another's points of view?

I hope this helps...El Jood if I made a mistake in interpreting what you said in hyour post, please correct me and I do apologize

-Eliza

I think even public figures are entitled to a private life. I understand as public figures, people will pry and want to know what is going on in their private lives, but the truth be told, it isn't anyone else's business. Their marriage is their own business. Not saying that it is right or wrong, but it doesn't matter whether any of us except it or not....because the deed is done.
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  #203  
Old 04-06-2005, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sommone


I think even public figures are entitled to a private life. I understand as public figures, people will pry and want to know what is going on in their private lives, but the truth be told, it isn't anyone else's business. Their marriage is their own business. Not saying that it is right or wrong, but it doesn't matter whether any of us except it or not....because the deed is done.
that was exactly my point, but like I said before since they are public figure it is inevitable that will happen

-Eliza
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  #204  
Old 04-07-2005, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Jood
I think Humera Discrimination is everywhere not only DUBAI in India itself there is discrimination between diffrenet social Levels of the society.Dicrimination in in all over the world.... we as arabs when we go to europe although we go for tourisim we are discriminated and miss treated as we are muslmis.... but here i can't genalise and say the whole european community is like this.
My neighbours are Rich indians in dubai....they have Indian cooks and workers...they were miss treated by the employer...who is also indian and came to our house to look for a job as we also have indian workers....

I would like to know how do they treat them please.


As for Haya If you read my Posts earlier we are not against her because she is marrie to an Emarati.... we are against her getting married to a married man... we are against her getting married to a 1. Married man 2. we have 1st lady who we love can't accpet another one who is not from our community, here comes culture.... she can get married to any of the royals no one would be against this wedding but not a crown prince who Is MARRIED and who is STILL with his wife.


The Oil you are talking about what made Haya Marry sheikh Mohammed if he didn't have$$$$$$$ would she marry him a married man who is 27 years older with a wife and children would she marry him NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!
remove the $$$$$$$ from the list and I bet she would not even look at him.
Our culture is something we are proud of and attched to and a person with no culture no past no values will never have a future, and our culture has no discrimination not accepting someone doesn't mean we discriminate you should understand what culture means to us before judging.
If you have been brought up in a community with culture you may understand what i mean.!
EL jJOOD, I'D LIKE TO ASK U A QUESTION :
WHAT IF HAYAH HAD BEEN AN EMIRATI PRINCESS OR EVEN AN EMIRATI ORDINARY WOMAN ?
I BET YOUR ATTITUDE TO HER WOULD HAVE BEEN SO DIFFERENT, AM i RIGHT ?
CAN U OR ANY1 FROM ME plz EXPLAIN TO ME, IS a Jordanian woman different from an Emirati for ppl who live in the ME ? isn't she a Muslim and an arab woman , does it matter if she was born in Jordan and not in UAE, does it not matter to any1 in UAE that she's a Royal Arab ,Muslim Princess ? thanx ,hope u or any1 else will reply, 'cos I really don't understand this. PS- I know that we, from Europe, have the same attitude, but when our CP ,though he lives in exhile, he's still the CP of Italian RF, well, when he got married to a French actress, we ,who still love our rF, were so happy with it, and the thought that he was able to get married in Rome..... OMG, that was neat.
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  #205  
Old 04-07-2005, 03:18 AM
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Eliza about your question ( why when Islam stresses equality and unity so much why do we see these kinds of attitudes among them? )
I think the answer is very simple ( no one is perfect .. this is the answer ) , personally I don't care if you muslim or not muslim and I don't care if you arab or not arab
I care about the humanity of the person .
and Eliza I don't mind to read criticism about my culture because I know there are a lot to criticise looool


again about Haya , we already know that mo have another wife from lebanon , so I don't think the problame that she from Jordan ( Jordan is a great country ) I thik the problame realy that she is princess and if you a princess that means you have better choices .

personally I think I can understand from where El Jood viewpoint came , and I wish you all to respect the fact that she is from UAE so she know better how her people feel and how they look to Haya .
so maybe Haya don't have alot of chance of people love there , but who know maybe after short time that will change especially if she will have a children from mo
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  #206  
Old 04-07-2005, 03:20 AM
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by houri
come on people , what happening here , we all human , I don't think any culture is better than other culture
all cultures around the world is great

I am a muslim and an arab
realy , I think most of us proud of his or her culture and it is normal
and about ( superior attitudes ) every one can be guilty of that , ( even in this topic )

houri, we are not so stupid and ignorant, though we were born and lived all our life in the West, we are all are educated ppl, if we are here, it's 'cos we love JRF, a RF whose members are of course Arabs and Muslims, does it occur to u that we appreciate ME culture ? Of course, we can't agree with everything u do or think, - as for religion, there's only 1 God, and u can call him Allah, we call him God.... why should we dislike Muslims ? I myself are fascinated by the Prophet, and by your culture. Hayah was not a beggar be4e her wed, she loves Mo. J ppl do not hate QR 'cos she was born in Kuwait and has PAL origins, well, hope not, I can't speak for them.:)
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  #207  
Old 04-07-2005, 03:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houri
Eliza about your question ( why when Islam stresses equality and unity so much why do we see these kinds of attitudes among them? )
I think the answer is very simple ( no one is perfect .. this is the answer ) , personally I don't care if you muslim or not muslim and I don't care if you arab or not arab
I care about the humanity of the person .
and Eliza I don't mind to read criticism about my culture because I know there are a lot to criticise looool


again about Haya , we already know that mo have another wife from lebanon , so I don't think the problame that she from Jordan ( Jordan is a great country ) I thik the problame realy that she is princess and if you a princess that means you have better choices .

personally I think I can understand from where El Jood viewpoint came , and I wish you all to respect the fact that she is from UAE so she know better how her people feel and how they look to Haya .
so maybe Haya don't have alot of chance of people love there , but who know maybe after short time that will change especially if she will have a children from mo
okay, thanx...I can understand where El Jood is coming from myself, and I actually value her viewpoints on Haya as she is living within the same area. I appreciate your input and insight and I'm very thankful to you for responding to my question, it's funny how the simplest answers sometimes evade us because we are looking for a complex answer--I had never even thought of the possibilty that maybe it's just cuz they're human and human beings generally have something or another personally that they feel proud of.

-Eliza
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  #208  
Old 04-07-2005, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~Humera~*~
I admire your sentiment suria and agree with what you say. But I think I would go beyond your point about Arabs being one nation and extend that to all Muslims being community. Though I understand there are some Arabs who dont feel this way. I dont think any one should have a problem with Sheikh Muhammad's choice of wife had she been a non-Arab Muslim, or a westerner. If two adults marry out of their own free will and with the best intentions, no one has the right to criticize their union. According to Islam he could even marry a Christian or a Jewish woman. In matters like that, Islam is far more liberal than some very conservative cultural practices.Thats my point of view. But I do understand that some people in the ME have problems with their kings/princes marrying "foreigners"
Fortunately I dont see it in most other Muslim countries.


i agree with you , i wanted to say that Arabs talk all the time as a one nation , and their is no differences between them , i was replying to ElJood she can't handle that Haya is Jordanian , i was surprised as we in Jordan didn't talk a bout our queens even they are not Arabs at all , so if two grown up person decided to get married no one has the right to say no, its their choice , and in Islam its ok to marry Christians or Jewish , if we understand Islam very will all of us will be happy and satisfied as its a fair religion , our dream in Islamic country is to be one nation t0o stick to gather , but i think its very far dream ....
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  #209  
Old 04-07-2005, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suria
sure , you can't satisfy everyone , but most of us didn't attack KH when he married QN or PM , and we never said that we are better than QN or PM or PS as we are Jordanian and they are foreign , its not a bout that .

i read the discussion here, and i wanted to say that in Islam their is no differences between people , in Islam we know that god created us with different culture to communicate and to know each other not to fight ,

Arabs should be one nation but its only a part of the huge Islamic nation.



In Jordan we were ok most of us with QN and PM , even QN had more popularity than QR now , even Rania is full Arabic Queen , so what i wanted to say is that we care a bout their works more than their origin .
I'm glad to hear that actually, I had thought that PS was not accepted because she was of Pakistani or Indian origin (which one I'm not sure), but I guess I was wrong...thanks for clearing that up for me.

-Eliza
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  #210  
Old 04-07-2005, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houri

personally I think I can understand from where El Jood viewpoint came , and I wish you all to respect the fact that she is from UAE so she know better how her people feel and how they look to Haya .


Ok...How many people live in the UAE? Is it a million yet? There is no way El Jood can speak for all of those people. Maybe all of the people she knows, but not a whole country. Just because she is from there, doesn't make her a spokesperson for the whole UAE, and I'm not trying to be rude here in any way. I can never say that I know how everyone in the state that I live in feels about a certain issue. I can say that I know how people feel about an issue that I have spoken to about that particular issue.
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  #211  
Old 04-07-2005, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sommone
Ok...How many people live in the UAE? Is it a million yet? There is no way El Jood can speak for all of those people. Maybe all of the people she knows, but not a whole country. Just because she is from there, doesn't make her a spokesperson for the whole UAE, and I'm not trying to be rude here in any way. I can never say that I know how everyone in the state that I live in feels about a certain issue. I can say that I know how people feel about an issue that I have spoken to about that particular issue.
Everyone here should speak only for themselves -- and not for an entire nation or even a group of individuals.

While you may be able to offer a special/unique/insider perspective on a situation because you live within a culture or country, your views are ultimately your own views, based on your background, experiences and personal sentiments, and are not representative of everyone in a country or of a particular culture.

If I need to address this particular subject matter any further I will have to close this thread. People's feelings and opinons are getting trampled upon. I thought that I would try to ease moderation in the ME forum and allow for some more free discussion but this is obviously not working out as some members cannot seem to behave themselves.

Alexandria
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  #212  
Old 04-07-2005, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sommone
Ok...How many people live in the UAE? Is it a million yet? There is no way El Jood can speak for all of those people. Maybe all of the people she knows, but not a whole country. Just because she is from there, doesn't make her a spokesperson for the whole UAE, and I'm not trying to be rude here in any way. I can never say that I know how everyone in the state that I live in feels about a certain issue. I can say that I know how people feel about an issue that I have spoken to about that particular issue.
I am and Emarati and I don't speak onbehalf Of all Emraties....
but I bet if you ask any emarati about their feelings from this issue the answer will please me.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by tipper
EL jJOOD, I'D LIKE TO ASK U A QUESTION :
WHAT IF HAYAH HAD BEEN AN EMIRATI PRINCESS OR EVEN AN EMIRATI ORDINARY WOMAN ?
it would of been the same because she is getting married to a married man and its acceptable in islam but having more than one wife has ended along time ago ...sheikh mohammed's dad had only one wife and his grandfather had one wife so its something UnCommon to happen in the royal family....
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  #213  
Old 04-07-2005, 06:11 PM
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discourage national youth from marrying foreign women

The same week Sheikh Mohammed got married to Haya the coverment was disscussing a LAW not allowing UAE nationals getting married to NON UAE women.



‘Stop nationals from marrying foreign women’
By Salah El Debarki

7 April 2005


FUJAIRAH — The Parents Council of Hamad bin Abdulla Al Sharqi School in Fujairah has urged the Marriage Fund to support mass weddings in Fujairah and to discourage national youth from marrying foreign women mainly because of the prohibitive cost of a wedding. Shaikh Abdulla Al Sharqi said the extravagant spending in marriages had only resulted in problems among youth, often leading to debt traps. The high cost involved in a wedding forced the youth to prefer marriage with foreign women, which would have a negative impact on society, he said, and asked the Marriage Fund to take measures to reverse this trend.


http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Display...tion=theuae&col=
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  #214  
Old 04-10-2005, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Jood
it would of been the same because she is getting married to a married man and its acceptable in islam but having more than one wife has ended along time ago ...sheikh mohammed's dad had only one wife and his grandfather had one wife so its something UnCommon to happen in the royal family....
If the tradition of men taking multiple wives ended generations ago then why is Sheik Mohammed unringing the bell on this "tradition?"

It seems to me that those who are blaming Haya are seeing things in an unobjective manner. It takes two people to get married. Sheik Mohammed proposed to Haya and Haya accepted. Furthermore, Sheik Mohammed made the decision to take on a second wife and he chose Haya.

Even if you say that Haya pursued Sheik Mohammed like a mad woman in love, then one would hope that if he loved his first wife enough and had enough strength, princicple and character as a man he would've been able to withstand her advances. So if the argument is that Sheik Mohammed only married Haya because she pursued him relentlessly then you are by the same token saying that he is a weak man.

So he is either a weak man or a man who is in control of himself and his emotions and knows exactly what he was doing in taking on Haya as his second wife.
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  #215  
Old 04-11-2005, 03:39 AM
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Try this to get to the Laha mag.

http://pdf.lahamag.com/pages/04-2005/237People01.pdf
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  #216  
Old 04-11-2005, 12:56 PM
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Haya with Ali and Reem .

http://pdf.lahamag.com/pages/01-2005/224People02.pdf
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  #217  
Old 04-12-2005, 01:59 PM
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I wonder if PH and Shk Mo plan to have any children?
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  #218  
Old 04-14-2005, 12:57 AM
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~Humera~*~
whether you agree or disagree, most people know she's an educated, independent woman, especially for someone who lost her mother at a very young age and didnt always have her father's undivided attention.




Perhaps you haven't heard some of these so-called arguments? Im referring to those that are based on malicious hatred. I dont have to name names. It is bashing plain and simple. It has been going on for more than a year and some of the members who have engaged in it are either now banned or no longer post here. Those people were warned continuously by various mods and criticized by many members. Perhaps you dont have all the information about the people Im referring to. The so-called "this is our culture" argument holds Sheikh Muhammad responsible for nothing and lays all the blame on Haya as if she cast a spell on him, rendering him unable to use his head. In polygamous marriages it is often the women who are blamed as home wreckers. I have heard the argument that certain people dont like her because in the UAE, they dont like people to marry foreigners. The argument has often taken racial/racist overtones, ie, Sheikh Muhammad's first wife is better because she is of pure UAE blood and so are her children. Like there was even a UAE a hundred years ago. I wasnt born in the west and nor am a "westerner" but I know a narrow, superior, and backward point-of-view when I hear one. I dont care who says things like that. It is even worse when I hear things like that from fellow Muslims.

well, humera, I must write here that I appreciate this message so much, u just said what I had meant to say for so long- -this is our culture- well, it's just a rude way to tell ppl from the West not to intrude in this issue, so we must stay here, and read what some ppl, as Mo is their CP, that's their country, that's their culture etc. , are here just to bash and slander a woman who happened to fall in love with their icon, married to another icon, who happens to have been born in UAE, so her blood lineage is ok for them- as for Hayah, I have heard something about her past, but what past, she's always been descreet, she surely has had some flings, so what ? s her blood is arabic, totally, - imagine if Mo had gotten married to Iman, Raiyah or Aisha or Zein, whose blood is not fully arabic, OMG.....- we are talking about a bright, grad , Hashemite, Arab, Muslim, Princess, who's, btw, very beautiful, while we can't say that of Mo, who's so much older than her, though he's wealthier..... thanx, humera !:) :)
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  #219  
Old 04-14-2005, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tipper
well, humera, I must write here that I appreciate this message so much, u just said what I had meant to say for so long- -this is our culture- well, it's just a rude way to tell ppl from the West not to intrude in this issue, so we must stay here, and read what some ppl, as Mo is their CP, that's their country, that's their culture etc. , are here just to bash and slander a woman who happened to fall in love with their icon, married to another icon, who happens to have been born in UAE, so her blood lineage is ok for them- as for Hayah, I have heard something about her past, but what past, she's always been descreet, she surely has had some flings, so what ? s her blood is arabic, totally, - imagine if Mo had gotten married to Iman, Raiyah or Aisha or Zein, whose blood is not fully arabic, OMG.....- we are talking about a bright, grad , Hashemite, Arab, Muslim, Princess, who's, btw, very beautiful, while we can't say that of Mo, who's so much older than her, though he's wealthier..... thanx, humera !:) :)
you're welcome!
I think many people, like you perhaps, would've been afraid of misunderstanding or offending someone or another by making such a strong statement. But I suppose Im bold enough to point out what's wrong and unfair because no one can dismiss my opinion by saying "oh you're a foreigner or you're not Muslim, so you dont understand" and because im not a born "westerner" (whatever that means!)
And this happens on this board often, which is why a lot of people are afraid of making legitimate arguments because they're afraid of offending.
But I think tolerance and political correctness has its limits, especially when one side doesnt respect dissenting opinions or disparages other peoples' opinions under the guise of "well this is my culture and I know better."
None of us live in a cave.
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  #220  
Old 04-15-2005, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~Humera~*~
you're welcome!
I think many people, like you perhaps, would've been afraid of misunderstanding or offending someone or another by making such a strong statement. But I suppose Im bold enough to point out what's wrong and unfair because no one can dismiss my opinion by saying "oh you're a foreigner or you're not Muslim, so you dont understand" and because im not a born "westerner" (whatever that means!)
And this happens on this board often, which is why a lot of people are afraid of making legitimate arguments because they're afraid of offending.
But I think tolerance and political correctness has its limits, especially when one side doesnt respect dissenting opinions or disparages other peoples' opinions under the guise of "well this is my culture and I know better."
None of us live in a cave.

I agree, u're lucky as u are from both cultures, that's true, btw, I read, in a true story novel, that ppl from other ME countries , like Jordan ,Lebanon, etc. are being mistreated in KSA, so maybe it's the same in UAE, I'm starting to understand why they, I mean ppl who are from UAE, do hate Hayah so much, it's got nothing to do with her being his 2nd wife.....:) :) :)
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