Sheikh Mohammed's Goldolphin operation hit by doping scandal


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I completely agree with you,Duke of Marmalade...
(On a side note:Your last sentence reminds me a little bit of Prince Charles famous "whatever love is" statement in the engagement interview.I found it strange at first,but over the years I believe I better understand what he wanted to say,because who can really pin down and say what "love" is ?)
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
It's not about SM's reaction but the reaction of the BHA. Such cases usually take months to be dealt with, the BHA taking their time.
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Even if the error was added or someone pleads guilty?
 
blauerengel said:
I just don´t understand why a trainer would risk his position and future with such a really bad move unless he is urged to do so or so much under pressure to deliver good results that he is willing to take every measurement possible to win, even if it is illegal....
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That could it be...... some also believe that manipulation to remain undetected.....I am not familiar in the theory of equestrianism. But I mean that some substances are allowed in UAE, which are considered as doping in Europe. Add to this: some drugs (painkillers) contain ingredients that are among the banned substances in Europe or/and U.S.
 
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blauerengel said:
I do not believe that the trainer made an "accident",in his position he MUST know the rules and legislation of the FEI,otherwise he is not in the right job and should seek a job in a less demanding position. Also,I do not believe that Sheikh Mohammed hires idiots,
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If you do not believe that it was the trainers mistake, and you also not believe that SM hires persons, who are unsuitable - who do you think committed the error?
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
There won't be any further investigations or evidence. The BHA imposed a suitable ban that Godolphin accepts, in return the topic is dead now for the authorities.

It remains the sentiment, that is obviously also shared by other posters, that it is hard to imagine that Mr. Super-in-control gives such an important job to a crook.

But this is Dubai: They will deal with the foreign authorities the way they have to, nothing more, and the rest will be dealt with internally. Whatever that means.
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Hmmmm.......Sounds true! Nevertheless I see it positive it was negotiated as quickly, without long discussions. Finally, it is also about the reputation and prestige.
 
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Duke of Marmalade said:
A long but very interesting article on this issue
Godolphin doping scandal threat to horse racing - Features - Scotsman.com

further infos
Godolphin now probed by police | Mail Online
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Thanks for the articles. Sorry, I am aware that it is a serious matter, but in the latter it is written: "Hitting back: Al Zarooni has claimed that the Sheikh advised him daily....." Ouch......:headache: I did not expect, he strikes back.....Does it be true or just a trick of the hot tabloid press?

In an other part we read: "By Thursday evening, as the final stragglers in the offices around the BHA's headquarters in London's Holborn made their way home, Al Zarooni climbed into a chauffeur-driven saloon car, racing's pariah bound for the airport and Dubai quicker than a thoroughbred horse." ;) Okay ..... the author´s horses seem to run away at a gallop .....Sometimes press articles are to smile because of the mode of expression (phraseology).....

In the first article then also incorrectly Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum called the Crown Prince of Dubai twice - bad press research I would say. It is uncertain whether one can believe all the writing......
 
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Well,to me it looks as if the people involved gambled with "calculated risks",they probably did not expect to get caught or they might have hoped to be saved because of Sheikh Mohammed´s influental position and wealth.
A few years I have personally dealt with some of the people of the stables in Dubai because one of the horses had to be transferred to France,some of them did not even speak proper English so I would not be surprised if they do not understand the subtetlies of the laws of the FEI.However the doping rules are quite simple:

Ethylestranol and stanozolol (the substances found in the horses) are anabolic steroids and therefore prohibited substances under British rules of racing, at any time - either in training or racing.

Anabolic steroids are only allowed in Dubai and Australia,nowhere else in the world.

That is such a simple rule,that even my 3yr-old niece could understand it....

That the trainer took full charge is not a sign that he is guilty-usually guilty people take time,first neglect,or they try to make themselves look better and get away with less punishement through the help of a brilliant (and well-paid) lawyer.
That´s the way it usually goes,even if I know I am guilty I would wait to ask my lawyer and let him/her handle the situation to the best og my interest.Anything else would be foolish...
I see it that way:The trainer took all the blame so that the people higher up the ladder would not get the shame and so that Godolphin can say it was only the trainer´s fault...
 
blauerengel said:
A few years I have personally dealt with some of the people of the stables in Dubai because one of the horses had to be transferred to France,some of them did not even speak proper English so I would not be surprised if they do not understand the subtetlies of the laws of the FEI.
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I do not know who you're talking there (ostler/ stable boy?) but I am firmly convinced that the important people of the stables understand English well. At least may be sure to find someone who speaks English well enough in the yard.


blauerengel said:
Anabolic steroids are only allowed in Dubai and Australia,nowhere else in the world. That is such a simple rule,that even my 3yr-old niece could understand it....
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That could be the problem. Someone (or the trainer) has forgotten this rule or might to be hoped it would not detected.....
 
Well,hoping that a certain rule or breach of a certain law will not be detected is not the right way to do business....

I was certainly NOT talking to a stable boy,I was talking to an Emirati man who has a responsible position in the training of the horses,but for reasons of discretion I cannot disclose his name in a public forum.
 
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Well I'm not answering to the main subject but I will answer to people not speaking proper English , the thing is in the UAE we speak Arabic as a main language it is normal that a lot of people speak only their native language so when you are in UAE you should expect that a lot of people don't speak English, French, Spanish or any other language. I have been to one of the big stables in France and between my poor French and the trainers poor English I managed to call a friend to translate!
In the UAE normaly if they are not fluent in a language and somthing important is happening a translater will be present :)
 
I do understand every nation has their native language,however if you want to do business with people from other countries you must be able to talk in a different language...nowadays most people speak English and for me English should be the absolute minimum to expect from an educated person...I would not even call it a foreign language,English is so important that everyone should try to at least speak at a basic level so that they can communicate with people from other countries.
Especially in such a rich country like UAE with so much resources and (as I believe) free education for every citizens,I do not understand why people fail to learn foreign languages or why they are not interested to cultivate their mind and develop/use their intellectual potential.
Again,this is not a racist-motivated comment,I get also disappointed by many European and US citizens who do not try to learn other languages even though they have all the possible chances to do so! Like public libraries,schools,university,private language courses or tuiton from nationals or learning by listening to radio or tv from foreign countries.If you live in a poor country with no proper educational system I would understand and try to talk to you by hand and foot and facial expressions because I understand that some people grow up in an environment that did not give them a chance to unleash their potential and learn. Maybe that is too much,but I expect a certain level of education & basic knowledge of English from somebody who is coming from a wealthy nation with all the opportunities to learn and use their brains.

BTW:To save the grace of stable staff and the people who do the menial unglamorous work in the stables I must say that most of them,nationals from Asian countries like India,Bangladesh,etc., spoke better English than the people they worked for....
 
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blauerengel, I refer to your statment in post # 42. I do not agree with some points in it. I am aware (and I carry the responsibility for it) that I´m in boiling water again if I criticize you publicly. I am far from embarrass you here. So I decided to write a personal message to you.....

Generally: It is not easy for everyone to learn and to express themselves in a foreign language confidently. I have great respect for those who try to learn a foreign language, and somehow strived for the development of a communication between persons with different native languages.

blauerengel said:
I do understand every nation has their native language,however if you want to do business with people from other countries you must be able to talk in a different language.......
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I agree, but why you don´t want to learn Arabic if you negotiate or "work" with UAE stables from time to time and you know that some (or the majority of) important persons can not speak a proper English? If you want to do business.......
 
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blauerengel said:
Well,hoping that a certain rule or breach of a certain law will not be detected is not the right way to do business....
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Right, I agree. It is not the right way to do business, but some people (anywhere in the world) do their business in this way.....Usually they have success before they plunge deep.....

blauerengel said:
I was certainly NOT talking to a stable boy,I was talking to an Emirati man who has a responsible position in the training of the horses,but for reasons of discretion I cannot disclose his name in a public forum.
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No one wants to know his name, it should be remain your secret and isn´t important for the discussion here. But unusually for a person in such a position, especially if negotiations are scheduled, necessary or to be run.....in such cases normally a translator of trust is been consulted.
 
Suspended Goldolphin trainer Mahmood Al Zarooni 'advised to appeal' eight-year BHA ban for horse doping - Telegraph

Al Zarooni to appeal?

The BHA also confirmed the trainer, who was at the helm of Moulton Paddocks in Newmarket, had personally brought the drugs into the United Kingdom on a flight from Dubai, where horses in training can be given anabolic steroids and can race 28 days later.

Key findings delivered in Mahmood al-Zarooni steroids doping case | Sport | The Guardian
Mahmood al-Zarooni brought steroids in Godolphin case back from Dubai | Sport | guardian.co.uk
Godolphin trainer Mahmood Al Zarooni's trail of deceit over doped horses - Telegraph
 
Imanmajed said:
I agree, but why you don´t want to learn Arabic if you negotiate or "work" with UAE stables from time to time and you know that some (or the majority of) important persons can not speak a proper English? If you want to do business.......
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How interesting,so if Sheikh Mohammed´s horse got tested positive on doping in a large number I should defend myself because I do not speak proper Arabic? I miss to see the connection....

Again:I was not doing any business,I only assisted a friend who only speaks French & English and asked me to translate for him on the phone,nothing more...I did not take any money and I do not represent any company or organisation. I only did a favor to a friend who was unable to talk to the Emirati man on the mobile phone.

My issue is not the topic of this thread,but as it seems you like to use my lack of Arabic language knowledge to distract from the main topic-Who is the mastermind behind this whole doping mess?
 
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Duke of Marmalade said:
Sheik Mohammed and Mahmood Al Zarooni doping scandal: Racing is in crisis - MARTIN SAMUEL | Mail Online

He only agreed to appear before camera at all because his horse, Dawn Approach, had just won the 2,000 Guineas. Getting a question he didn’t like, he loftily ended the interview. For a man who could have been held responsible for the actions of his employee, he seems rather confident.

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Oh good grief... It seems that reality TV has infected everyone's minds and no one is happy unless cameras are following someone around 24/7 and picking up their every word.


Sheikh Mohammed has already issued a lengthy statement concerning this issue. He fired al-Zarooni, locked down his stables and is conducting an inquest into his other stables. He was swift and decisive in his action. Is that not enough? What else do want from the man?? Do you want him put in the stocks? Or flogged? See him burned at the stake? Or perhaps you want him to leave racing altogether and take with him hundreds (maybe even thousands) of jobs? Would that make you happy?


I don't blame the Sheikh for refusing to answer a silly question from an impertinent reporter. Her question was classless and downright tabloid and I wouldn't have responded to it either. The Sheikh has already made a statement about this matter and he doesn't owe the press anything beyond that. Anything else is just plain harassment.
 
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blauerengel said:
How interesting,so if Sheikh Mohammed´s horse got tested positive on doping in a large number I should defend myself because I do not speak proper Arabic? I miss to see the connection....

Again:I was not doing any business,I only assisted a friend who only speaks French & English and asked me to translate for him on the phone,nothing more...I did not take any money and I do not represent any company or organisation. I only did a favor to a friend who was unable to talk to the Emirati man on the mobile phone.

My issue is not the topic of this thread,but as it seems you like to use my lack of Arabic language knowledge to distract from the main topic -Who is the mastermind behind this whole doping mess?
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You are right, your issue is not the topic of this thread....

:bang: But from whoever than you should we know about your personal impression (language problems by important people of the "foreign-owned" stables in Europe)? You add a personal touch to the topic. Remember? Read your own posts No. 38, 42, 46......Why do you like to show a deliberate misunderstanding?
.
 
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charlieprk said:
Oh good grief... It seems that reality TV has infected everyone's minds and no one is happy unless cameras are following someone around 24/7 and picking up their every word.

Sheikh Mohammed has already issued a lengthy statement concerning this issue. He fired al-Zarooni, locked down his stables and is conducting an inquest into his other stables. He was swift and decisive in his action. Is that not enough? What else do want from the man?? Do you want him put in the stocks? Or flogged? See him burned at the stake? Or perhaps you want him to leave racing altogether and take with him hundreds (maybe even thousands) of jobs? Would that make you happy?

I don't blame the Sheikh for refusing to answer a silly question from an impertinent reporter. Her question was classless and downright tabloid and I wouldn't have responded to it either. The Sheikh has already made a statement about this matter and he doesn't owe the press anything beyond that. Anything else is just plain harassment.
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I agree with you charlieprk. The detection of doping was a "godsend" for the hot-blooded tabloid press, prone to exaggeration....Mostly they forget the objectivity. The matter was resolved quickly by all parties - comprehensively and competently. It was wise of Sheikh Mohammed to refusing to answer silly questions.
 
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Duke of Marmalade said:
Mahmood al-Zarooni has launched an appeal against the eight-year worldwide training ban he was given recently for doping horses with steroids. The news caught many in the sport by surprise, as Zarooni offered no defence at the original hearing 11 days ago.
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In fact, this is very surprising......:ermm:. Apparently, two different kind of souls dwell in his heart.
 
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Imanmajed said:
I agree with you charlieprk. The detection of doping was a "godsend" for the hot-blooded tabloid press, prone to exaggeration....Mostly they forget the objectivity. The matter was resolved quickly by all parties - comprehensively and competently. It was wise of Sheikh Mohammed to refusing to answer silly questions.
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Well,AFAIK there have been 15 horses tested positive,this is not a small number in this case.
This time,the press did not over-exaggerate,it was only right that they invest time and efforts into researching who and why this could happen.

Don´t tell me that the media is biased-if it is biased,it is biased in favour of Sheikh Mohammed because everyone in horse-business knows that there is far much more to lose than the 1000 jobs (or more,just a number from a British newspaper article) that are directly linked to Godolphin in Newmarket.Nobody wants Sheikh Mohammed to pull out from Great Britain,nobody wants him to invest his money elsewhere-but still: People expect him to play by the rules and they wish to see clean horse sport,no doping or any other illegal means to win the races.There is no racism,discrimination or bias,only the fact that a large number of horses have been tested positive and someone must accept responsibility for this.
 
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blauerengel said:
Well,AFAIK there have been 15 horses tested positive,this is not a small number in this case.
This time,the press did not over-exaggerate,it was only right that they invest time and efforts into researching who and why this could happen.
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I agree, 15 horses tested positive is a large number. But with my statement I did not mean the investigating authorities. Of course, the approach of the authority was correct. They had to examine what is happened and who bears responsibility in any form. My statement was referring to the yellow press reports, which are over-exaggerate. They were like hungry predators catching their prey without mercy. I have missed a little bit objectivity in their reporting.

blauerengel said:
People expect him to play by the rules and they wish to see clean horse sport,no doping or any other illegal means to win the races.
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This is also the concern of Sheikh Mohammed. He has responded quickly but with a pinch of sanity, prudence and assertiveness.
 
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Interesting article,charlieprk :) I do believe that it might have something to do with the doping scandal but who knows what thoughts or plans lead them to this decision?
I hope they will find someone else to sponsor the Endurance rides. Maybe Qatar or a rich private investor might jump in for Sheikh Mohammed´s investments?

Also interesting to know the number of his horses,I always knew he has a lot of horses,but so many horses are quite impressive! I imagine all of the horses running around free in Hyde Park (LDN)*lol*:

Sheikh Mohammed, who owns 700 endurance horses, had underpinned Euston for years, and funded world championship events. (taken from the telegraph article)

Also from the article above:
If Middle Eastern federations are excluded, endurance riding has a cleaner doping record than the Olympic discipline of show jumping worldwide.

Karen Collier added: “Endurance GB puts the welfare of the horse at the heart of our sport, with strict veterinary controls at all stages of our competitions.
 
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Duke of Marmalade said:
Godolphin's plans for Saeed bin Suroor to take charge of the Newmarket stables previously run by the banned Mahmood Al Zarooni have been blocked.
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The main reason for this step is certainly the fact that the authorities want to wait for the results of further testing. Only then a decision of a successor make a sense.
 
blauerengel said:
Also from the article above:
If Middle Eastern federations are excluded, endurance riding has a cleaner doping record than the Olympic discipline of show jumping worldwide.
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Misleading quote. As far as I know, steroids are also allowed in training/therapy in the US & Australia. You just can't use them on race day. Europe is the only place where these substances are banned which is why the rest of the world has has met this scandal with a collective shrug.
 
charlieprk said:
Misleading quote. As far as I know, steroids are also allowed in training/therapy in the US & Australia. You just can't use them on race day. Europe is the only place where these substances are banned which is why the rest of the world has has met this scandal with a collective shrug.
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Right, in UAE the substances are also allowed for therapy or training legally.
 
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