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  #321  
Old 09-17-2014, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Fatima.Qureshi View Post
Salam/Hello everyone, I wanted to know why some people including friends and acquaintances of Sheikh Hamdan Bin Mohammed call him BU RASHID since we are told he is not married and as a result has no son named Rashid? May be I am thinking the wrong way, so will any enlightened person answer my query.
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Originally Posted by Ridah View Post
.... If his friends call him BU RASHID, then maybe they're just trying to tease him.....
Bu Rashid = descendant of Rashid! Rashid was the name of his grandfather.
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  #322  
Old 09-17-2014, 03:59 PM
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I don't understand why people keep some of their wifes secretly >_< IMO its absolutely fine with having 2-3 wifes but why give just one wife the position of being an official wife, why not treating them equally.
It's a cultural thing. Family means everything for Emirati.The private life is of particular importance, especially the part which refers to the women of the family. They are not an object that you publicly shows around like a trophy. All wives are official (legal married). There is no hierarchy if someone has more than one wife.
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  #323  
Old 09-17-2014, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Ridah View Post
I do get your point but what i'm saying is that a girl should atleast be given the position of being someone's wife. Like i would seriously mind if my future husband refuses to be married to me (just like Hamdan is addressed as Single). Don't take me to the parties or officially announce my name in public but atleast don't address yourself as a single. I hope you get my point.
See I certainly understand how appalled you feel about this whole deal. Firstly look at Sheikh Mohammed for example, although in terms of order Sheikha Hind is his third wife, she is still considered first as well as the official wife. Reason? What I believe is the women of the family have a better status because they are royal firstly, secondly their culture promotes cousin marriage pretty much which is good to strengthen relationships and most importantly the blood remains blue and loyal of the babies born. An outsider woman becoming a part of the family herself needs so much to learn about adapting herself, language, norms and the much much more about the family being the head wife. But then again this is what I think the reason is and seriously all the woman who become secret wives are pretty fine with their husbands not so willing to acknowledge them officially, fir example Sheikh Mohammed's only wives who are officially regarded wives are Sheikha Hind and Princess Haya and both are royal in their own capacity. All his other wives are never mentioned by him. I think they also believe in drawing fine line between their royal women and the commoner wives, after all royal wives need that royal status and might not want to see themselves on the same scale as that of commoner wife who might actually be a belly dancer or an ordinary kindergarten teacher or an air-hostess, etc. And about that Sheikh Hamdan issue being called BU RASHID and still calling himself single, I cannot still says he is married secretly unless someone comes forward about it with proof. I am yet to receive comments from other members here who are much more qualified regarding such topics. I am myself very confused about it.
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  #324  
Old 09-17-2014, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Imanmajed View Post
It's a cultural thing. Family means everything for Emirati.The private life is of particular importance, especially the part which refers to the women of the family. They are are not an object that you publicly shows around like a trophy. All wives are official (legal married). There is no hierarchy if someone has more than one wife.
Thanks Iman for clearing up our doubts. You explain beautifully! :)
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  #325  
Old 09-17-2014, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imanmajed View Post
It's a cultural thing. Family means everything for Emirati.The private life is of particular importance, especially the part which refers to the women of the family. They are not an object that you publicly shows around like a trophy. All wives are official (legal married). There is no hierarchy if someone has more than one wife.
Being a muslim and a hijabi, i myself don't prefer people presenting their wifes in public as a trophy or a show peice. But, Say for example Zoe was married to Sheikh Mohammad long time back but only recently people got to know about her. I don't prefer showing muslim girls pictures in public but atleast including their names on the wikipedia page or the official website is the least you expect.
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  #326  
Old 09-17-2014, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Imanmajed View Post
Bu Rashid = descendant of Rashid! His grandfather`s name was Rashid.
Okay so there's no secret wife :P Thanks Iman.
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  #327  
Old 09-17-2014, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Fatima.Qureshi View Post
What I believe is the women of the family have a better status because they are royal firstly,
We have no ROYAL families in UAE! But we have RULING families, who look back on a long and successful tradition to govern tribes, and also a state since 1971. They are the great leaders of UAE! We owe them and their wise decisions the development of our country.

A Shaikh is a dominant, paramount member of a tribe. Rather you can compare the rank of a Shaikh with an Indian chief as with a prince charming from 1001 nights. In the past you can not be a Shaikh by birth, but by power, wisdom and acceptance. And thats what is the meaning of SHAIKH - old, wise man. The inheritance of the title changed a little bit in the last 150 years. But the meaning remains the same and can not be equated with a royal provenance.

There is also a religious version of the title Shaikh, but I´m sure you did not meant here.
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  #328  
Old 09-17-2014, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Ridah View Post
Okay so there's no secret wife :P Thanks Iman.
Right, no secret wife! I´m sorry to disappoint you!
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  #329  
Old 09-17-2014, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imanmajed View Post
We have no ROYAL families in UAE! But we have RULING families, who look back on a long and successful tradition to govern tribes, and also a state since 1971. They are the great leaders of UAE! We owe the development of our country and our future because of their wise decisions.

Rather you can compare the rank of Shaikh with an Indian chief as with a prince charming from 1001 nights. In the past you can not be a Shaikh by birth, but by power, wisdom and acceptance. And thats what is the meaning of SHAIKH - old, wise man. It changed a little bit in the last 150 years. But the meaning remains the same and can not be equated with a royal provenance.
Ok fine, I got you and what you mean to say. But them again I would say that mostly the ruling members use titles such as HRH for both male and female members. This thing and secondly media quotes them as Gulf royalties which gives an impression to the world that these are royal families. Besides what you say seems legible too!
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  #330  
Old 09-17-2014, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Ridah View Post
But, Say for example Zoe was married to Sheikh Mohammad long time back but only recently people got to know about her. I don't prefer showing muslim girls pictures in public but atleast including their names on the wikipedia page or the official website is the least you expect.
It is not part of our culture to do so. It remains to be seen whether this will change over the years with the younger generation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatima.Qureshi View Post
Ok fine, I got you and what you mean to say. But them again I would say that mostly the ruling members use titles such as HRH for both male and female members. This thing and secondly media quotes them as Gulf royalties which gives an impression to the world that these are royal families. Besides what you say seems legible too!
HRH = His/Her Royal Highness - In UAE this is right only in the case of Princess Haya because her father was the late king Hussein of Jordan.

No one of the UAE Shaikhs/Shaikhas is called HRH but titled HH which means His/Her Highness. Also this additional term (HH) is only used for high-level or ruling Shaikhs and Shaikhas. Sometimes media ignore all of that because of a lack of knowledge they seem to have.
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  #331  
Old 09-17-2014, 05:18 PM
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Yup, these media people screw thing up pretty drastically :)
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  #332  
Old 09-21-2014, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Imanmajed View Post
It is not part of our culture to do so. It remains to be seen whether this will change over the years with the younger generation.
I hope it does change :) *fingerscrossed*
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  #333  
Old 09-28-2014, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Fatima.Qureshi View Post
All his other wives are never mentioned by him. I think they also believe in drawing fine line between their royal women and the commoner wives, after all royal wives need that royal status and might not want to see themselves on the same scale as that of commoner wife ...
It seems that these men officially recognize only the wives that they would have difficulty divorcing due to political reasons.

Unofficial wives are in the position of being far more disposable. After all, these secret marriages can be made and broken by the man for any petty reason without any public exposure or criticism. Do these unofficial wives ever know what's coming?

Worst of all, once divorced, the children of these women seem to be taken from their mothers and parceled out to be raised by "official" wives or paternal female relatives. I do not have a very high opinion of anyone who participates in separating a child from its own mother. Imagine the feelings of isolation, abandonment and low self-esteem this imposes on a young child.
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  #334  
Old 09-29-2014, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Reuniontrio View Post

Unofficial wives are in the position of being far more disposable. After all, these secret marriages can be made and broken by the man for any petty reason without any public exposure or criticism.
A marriage - official or unofficial - is not a public matter! Only the two partners have the right to make decisions about their marriage.

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Do these unofficial wives ever know what's coming?
Do you ever know whats coming???

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Originally Posted by Reuniontrio View Post
Worst of all, once divorced, the children of these women seem to be taken from their mothers and parceled out to be raised by "official" wives or paternal female relatives. I do not have a very high opinion of anyone who participates in separating a child from its own mother. Imagine the feelings of isolation, abandonment and low self-esteem this imposes on a young child.
First: This does not happen in all cases and also not in the form as you describe it!

Second: Usually in the ruling families it is mostly done with the consent of the biological mother to prepare young family members well for their future tasks. In this time the biological mother is in contact with her kid(s) but lacks of specific knowledge of family tradition of a ruling house from their own experience. The child is not taken away from her but merely additionally educated to be a Shaikh or Shaikha by an offcial wive who come from a ruling family.
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  #335  
Old 10-01-2014, 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Reuniontrio View Post

Worst of all, once divorced, the children of these women seem to be taken from their mothers and parceled out to be raised by "official" wives or paternal female relatives. I do not have a very high opinion of anyone who participates in separating a child from its own mother. Imagine the feelings of isolation, abandonment and low self-esteem this imposes on a young child.
Unofficial wife's children are never separated from their mothers and PARCELED out to be raised by anybody else like Sheikha Mahra was raised up by her own mother Zoe, But only in few cases the child is raised by some other women because of reasons unknown. Ofcourse not for separating them from their mothers and torturing them emotionally and mentally.
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  #336  
Old 10-01-2014, 03:19 PM
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Ridah, you might be right, but let me tell you Sheikha Mahra's case is very different compared to other children from non-official wives. Sheikh Mohammed never knew about Mahra's existence, until she was 11 years old. Mahra's mom Zoe did not let him know she was expecting Mahra fearing that he would take away the child from her. Sheikha Mahra was raised as Catholic all these years until she recently met her father, converted and changed named to be called Sheikha Mahra. And this story quoted was told by Zoe, Sheikha Mahra's biological mom. A father knowing about her daughter's existence after so many years definitely tells a thing or two to me at least However, on a safer side, things might not be that bad with every wife/ Sheikh.
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  #337  
Old 10-01-2014, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Imanmajed View Post
Bu Rashid = descendant of Rashid! Rashid was the name of his grandfather.
No that's not it, in UAE and some gulf countries sertan men names are assosiated with son names until an actual son is born
Ahmed is bu Shihab
Rashid is bu Snidah
Hamdan is bu Rashid

Once he is married and his first son is born then he would be "bu what ever the name is)
Bu = Abu = father of
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  #338  
Old 10-02-2014, 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Fatima.Qureshi View Post
Ridah, you might be right, but let me tell you Sheikha Mahra's case is very different compared to other children from non-official wives. Sheikh Mohammed never knew about Mahra's existence, until she was 11 years old. Mahra's mom Zoe did not let him know she was expecting Mahra fearing that he would take away the child from her. Sheikha Mahra was raised as Catholic all these years until she recently met her father, converted and changed named to be called Sheikha Mahra. And this story quoted was told by Zoe, Sheikha Mahra's biological mom. A father knowing about her daughter's existence after so many years definitely tells a thing or two to me at least However, on a safer side, things might not be that bad with every wife/ Sheikh.
Shukran for the information Fatima, can you please post the link of the interview where zoe disclosed this information :)
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  #339  
Old 10-02-2014, 03:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Ridah View Post
Unofficial wife's children are never separated from their mothers and PARCELED out to be raised by anybody else like Sheikha Mahra was raised up by her own mother Zoe, But only in few cases the child is raised by some other women because of reasons unknown. Ofcourse not for separating them from their mothers and torturing them emotionally and mentally.
I was simply observing that the (3?) children who have been "raised by other women because of reasons unknown" are all the children of divorced "unofficial wives". One more might have been in the same situation, but as has been pointed out, what the mother saw happening to some of the older children led her to conceal her pregnancy.

Do I really think that Emiratis don't know the reasons for this phenomenon? No. I think the reasons are probably very well known, and likely include the "unofficial" status of the marriage, the national origins of the women and, I suspect, their religion.

In a polygamous family, the father spreads his attention among possibly dozens of children and multiple women. Mothers are advocates in helping their children get time, attention and other valuable resources. The privileged "official" wife who is a near relative of the husband has little interest in advocating for the needs of other offspring of her husband. Why would she? They are competitors to her own children and therefore her own status. Is anyone suggesting that this is not true?

Her main goals are: 1. Keeping those other children on the sidelines 2. Making sure that those children (especially the girls) do not do anything to jeopardize the reputations of her own children. Children without mothers are very easy to deal with in this regard. They can be taught from an early age to keep a low profile and not demand very much, because they have no mother to advocate for them. Thus, there is a motivation to marginalize the biological mother and get her completely out the sphere of influence so the children can be taught their place without interference.

The one child of an "unofficial" divorced foreign wife who has not kept a low profile has not exactly been embraced with loving arms by the "official" wife's children, has she? Because she was raised by her mother, rather than a female relative or official wife who could make sure that she was trained to keep her head down and know her place.
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  #340  
Old 10-04-2014, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Reuniontrio View Post
I was simply observing that the (3?) children who have been "raised by other women because of reasons unknown" are all the children of divorced "unofficial wives". One more might have been in the same situation, but as has been pointed out, what the mother saw happening to some of the older children led her to conceal her pregnancy.

Do I really think that Emiratis don't know the reasons for this phenomenon? No. I think the reasons are probably very well known, and likely include the "unofficial" status of the marriage, the national origins of the women and, I suspect, their religion.

In a polygamous family, the father spreads his attention among possibly dozens of children and multiple women. Mothers are advocates in helping their children get time, attention and other valuable resources. The privileged "official" wife who is a near relative of the husband has little interest in advocating for the needs of other offspring of her husband. Why would she? They are competitors to her own children and therefore her own status. Is anyone suggesting that this is not true?

Her main goals are: 1. Keeping those other children on the sidelines 2. Making sure that those children (especially the girls) do not do anything to jeopardize the reputations of her own children. Children without mothers are very easy to deal with in this regard. They can be taught from an early age to keep a low profile and not demand very much, because they have no mother to advocate for them. Thus, there is a motivation to marginalize the biological mother and get her completely out the sphere of influence so the children can be taught their place without interference.

The one child of an "unofficial" divorced foreign wife who has not kept a low profile has not exactly been embraced with loving arms by the "official" wife's children, has she? Because she was raised by her mother, rather than a female relative or official wife who could make sure that she was trained to keep her head down and know her place.
I agree with you, it now makes sense why some of sheikh mohammeds children were raised by his sisters and I think mahra's mum was smart to hide her pregnancy so mahra wouldn't be taken from her, I mean imagine having ur child taken away such a sad feeling and loss.
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