Titles of the Dutch Royals

[Mbruno]

Are the Van Vollenhoven Prince of the Netherlands (HH)
Are de Bourbon Parme Prince or Princess of the Netherlands (HRH) ?

No Lippe-Biesterfeld anymore ??

Prof. Van Vollenhoven's and Princess Margriet's sons hold the personal (non-inheritable) title of "Prince xxx of Orange-Nassau, van Vollenhoven" with the style HH. Prince Irene's children have the title of "Prince/Princess xxx of Bourbon de Parme" with the style HRH. The latter is a foreign princely title legally incorporated into the nobility of the Netherlands.

Neither the Van Vollenhoven children, nor the Bourbon de Parme have the title of "Prince/Princess of the Netherlands". The two elder sons of Princess Margriet were, however, members of the Dutch Royal House until the abdication of Queen Beatrix. The younger Van Vollehoven boys were also born members of the Royal House, but lost their membership when they got married without seeking the consent of the Dutch parliament.

Prince Constantijn's children, as also members of the Royal House from birth until the abdication of their grandmother, Queen Beatrix, could also have been given by law the personal title of "Prince/Princess of Orange-Nassau" (HH), but the Queen, under the advice of the Dutch government, decided instead to elevate them to the Dutch nobility as "count/countess of Orange-Nassau". As explained by Duc et Pair, they belong to the noble family van Orange-Nassau van Amsberg and not to the royal House of Orange. Their comital title is inheritable by all descendants of the family in male line and, hence, can be transmitted only by count Claus-Casimir if he has any issue. Since Prince Constantijn also holds the predicate of Jonkheer van Amsberg inherited from his father, his children are also automatically Jonkheer or Jonkvrouw van Amsberg, in addition to count/countess of Orange-Nassau.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The late Prince Friso and his children as well the children of Prince Constantijn have:
- the surname Van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg
- the title Count (Countess) van Oranje-Nassau
- the predicate Jonkheer (Jonkvrouw) van Amsberg

This is peculiar because the predicate (not a title) Jonkheer or Jonkvrouw indicates a noble without a title. But they have a title... Count or Countess. Most likely they did this to stress the descendance from both Beatrix as well Claus: the last one was also of aristocratic descent. In Dutch law it is not allowed to "staple" titles into a name. This means that the highest title is used in connection with the surname. So the passports will show them as "[... given names...] Count (Countess) van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg".

Descendance via Claus von Amsberg:

Parent:
Von Amsberg (Adel) cr. Prince of the Netherlands (1966)

Grandparents:
Von Amsberg (Adel)
Von dem Bussche-Haddenhausen (Freiherren)

Great-Grandparents:
Von Amsberg (Adel)
Von Vieregge (Grafen und Freiherren)
Von dem Bussche-Haddenhausen (Freiherren)
Von dem Bussche-Ippenburg (Freiherren)

Great-Great-Grandparents
Von Amsberg (Adel)
Von Passow (Adel)
Von Vieregge (Grafen und Freiherren)
Von Gutschmidt (Freiherren)
Von dem Bussche-Haddenhausen (Freiherren)
Von Salviati (Adel)
Von dem Bussche-Ippenburg (Freiherren)
Von Chelius (Adel)

 

[maria-olivia]

May we say Princess Marilène, Princess Annette , Princess Anita , Princess Aimée ?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

May we say Princess Marilène, Princess Annette , Princess Anita , Princess Aimée ?

Yes, if you like. They are married to a gentleman with that title so they can be addressed with that title. Like the sisters of Queen Mathilde can be addressed as Marchioness Pallavicini and Baroness Jansen, the titles of their husbands...

 

[carlota]

Titles for Willem-Alexander and Máxima following abdication

following this thread here on Máxima title as queen, i wonder what titles her and WA will take following abdication to Amalia. of course this is a long way away at this point, but i was dissappointed to see Beatrix being made "only" a princess again when she abdicated, and i hope this is reconsidered for Willem-Alexander and Máxima...

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f48/princess-m-ximas-future-title-12957.html

 

[Princess Robijn]

That is highly unlikely. After Wilhelmina, Juliana and Beatrix, I just don't see them changing it. After the death of Princess Beatrix, hopefully far away, she will be listed as Queen Beatrix again.

A different scenario would be Queen Máxima surving King Willem-Alexander. The last time this happened was with Queen Emma, née Princess of Waldeck-Pyrmont. She was Koningin-Moeder (Queen Mother) and Regentes because of her underage daughter.

 

[JR76]

Isn't Maxima really "only" a princess but styled as Queen because of tradition?


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community mobile app

 

[Stefan]

Isn't Maxima really "only" a princess but styled as Queen because of tradition?


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community mobile app

Yes. At the time of their Wedding it was discussed that she should remain Princess Máxima after WA's accession but the then goverment ndecied to leave the Issue to the goverment who would be in charge at the time of the abdication. Her official title is now Queen Máxima, Princess of the Netherlands not Queen of the Netherlands.

 

[Mbruno]

Dutch law says that a monarch upon addication is styled "Prince of the Netherlands" and that would be Willem-Alexander's title if he stepped down. Maxima, on the other hand, is already a Princess of the Netherlands (and Princess of Orange-Nassau) in her own right and would continue to be so if WA abdicated. In fact, those are her only true titles; she is referred to as "queen" and HM by courtesy only, and not by law.

In any case, I think we are getting ahead of ourselves here. There is no requirement that WA should abdicate in favor of Amalia and maybe he will never do it. Wilhelmina and Juliana abdicated for health reasons. It is not so clear to me why Beatrix abdicated, as she could easily have kept the job for many years to come, but, again, the fact that she did abdicate doesn't mean her son will do the same in the future.

 

[carlota]

thanks for the clarification! it's interesting seeing all these differences in titles in the different monarchies...

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

It is not so clear to me why Beatrix abdicated, as she could easily have kept the job for many years to come, but, again, the fact that she did abdicate doesn't mean her son will do the same in the future.

The Queen herself stated on television (announcing her abdication):

"I am abdicating, not because my duties are becoming too burdensome, but because I am convinced that it is time for the responsibility for our country to be passed to a new generation. On the 30th of April this year, with the utmost confidence, I shall hand over the kingship to my son, the Prince of Orange."

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The Royal House Act 2002 says it clear:

Article 8
1. The presumed successor of the King, and the King who has abdicated the kingship, bear the title Prince (Princess) of the Netherlands

Article 9
1. The King, the presumed successor of the King, and the King who has abdicated the kingship, bear the title Prince (Princess) of Orange-Nassau

wetten.nl - Wet- en regelgeving - Wet lidmaatschap koninklijk huis - BWBR0013729

So, like Queen Wilhelmina, Queen Juliana and Queen Beatrix, also King Willem-Alexander will revert to the style he had before the kingship:

Since 4 September 1948
HRH Princess Wilhelmina of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau

Since 30 April 1980
HRH Princess Juliana of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau, Duchess of Mecklenburg

Since 30 April 2013
HRH Princess Beatrix of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau, Princess of Lippe-Biesterfeld

Since ??-??-??
HRH Prince Willem-Alexander of the Netherlands, Prince of Orange-Nassau, Jonkheer van Amsberg

 

[Mbruno]

following this thread here on Máxima title as queen, i wonder what titles her and WA will take following abdication to Amalia. of course this is a long way away at this point, but i was dissappointed to see Beatrix being made "only" a princess again when she abdicated, and i hope this is reconsidered for Willem-Alexander and Máxima...

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f48/princess-m-ximas-future-title-12957.html

Following an abdication, Willem-Alexander will have the title of Prince of the Netherlands. That is determined by law.

As for Máxima, her title of Queen is merely a courtesy title. Her only legal titles are Princess of the Netherlands and Princess of Orange-Nassau, which she is in her on right. If her husband ceases to be king, I suppose she will drop her courtesy title and revert to using only her legal titles. I din’t think it is a controversial issue.

A more interesting question iIMHO is what title and style Máxima would take as a widow when Amalia ibecame Queen.

 

[lucien]

Following an abdication, Willem-Alexander will have the title of Prince of the Netherlands. That is determined by law.

As for Máxima, her title of Queen is merely a courtesy title. Her only legal titles are Princess of the Netherlands and Princess of Orange-Nassau, which she is in her on right. If her husband ceases to be king, I suppose she will drop her courtesy title and revert to using only her legal titles. I din’t think it is a controversial issue.

A more interesting question iIMHO is what title and style Máxima would take as a widow when Amalia ibecame Queen.

Princess,she would prefer to be styled Princess again instead of the pompous and old fashioned Queen Dowager or Queen Mother.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Princess,she would prefer to be styled Princess again instead of the pompous and old fashioned Queen Dowager or Queen Mother.

Officially Máxima still is prinses der Nederlanden. She is only Queen by courtesy. A missed opportunity to make the position of the consort gender neutral and non-discriminatory for ever, which was actually the intention of the Royal House Act 2002

de Koning &
de Prinses der Nederlanden

de Koningin &
de Prins der Nederlanden

---------------------------------------------

de Prins van Oranje &
prinses [....] der Nederlanden

de Prinses van Oranje &
prins [....] der Nederlanden

 

[Kataryn]

The Royal House Act 2002 says it clear:

Article 8
1. The presumed successor of the King, and the King who has abdicated the kingship, bear the title Prince (Princess) of the Netherlands

Article 9
1. The King, the presumed successor of the King, and the King who has abdicated the kingship, bear the title Prince (Princess) of Orange-Nassau

wetten.nl - Wet- en regelgeving - Wet lidmaatschap koninklijk huis - BWBR0013729

So, like Queen Wilhelmina, Queen Juliana and Queen Beatrix, also King Willem-Alexander will revert to the style he had before the kingship:

Since 4 September 1948
HRH Princess Wilhelmina of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau

Since 30 April 1980
HRH Princess Juliana of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau, Duchess of Mecklenburg

Since 30 April 2013
HRH Princess Beatrix of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau, Princess of Lippe-Biesterfeld

Since ??-??-??
HRH Prince Willem-Alexander of the Netherlands, Prince of Orange-Nassau, Jonkheer van Amsberg

I like that fact that the ex-queens Wilhelmina and Juliana were buried with the highest title they held in their life: both as queens. So other than in life, in death the Dutch still believe in a kingdom forever...

 

[lucien]

I like that fact that the ex-queens Wilhelmina and Juliana were buried with the highest title they held in their life: both as queens. So other than in life, in death the Dutch still believe in a kingdom forever...

Immediatly after the passing of a former Monarch who after her Abdication holds the title of Princess,the Court as well as the Staats Courant will announce that the deceased will henceforth be known as Queen again.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Immediatly after the passing of a former Monarch who after her Abdication holds the title of Princess,the Court as well as the Staats Courant will announce that the deceased will henceforth be known as Queen again.

To be more precize: it became Queen Juliana again "vanaf het moment van de bijzetting" ("from the moment of the interment").

Proof: the Order of Service for the Funeral of Her Royal Highness Juliana Emma Louise Marie Wilhelmina Princess of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau, Duchess of Mecklenburg, Princess of Lippe-Biesterfeld:

http://www.radio4.nl/deklassieken/nieuws-pagina/75

 

[Kataryn]

To be more precize: it became Queen Juliana again "vanaf het moment van de bijzetting" ("from the moment of the interment").

Proof: the Order of Service for the Funeral of Her Royal Highness Juliana Emma Louise Marie Wilhelmina Princess of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau, Duchess of Mecklenburg, Princess of Lippe-Biesterfeld:

Nieuws Pagina - De Klassieken - NPO Radio 4 - Liturgie bijzetting koningin Juliana

It is so ritualistic that a former queen who on abdicating became a princess again is only again recognized as queen in death as "late" as she is really buried - so there are at no moment two queens regnant of the Netherlands above the earth. Not that it mattered for the deseased but it's an elegant way to deal with the fact that the Netherlands know an interregnum but make sure the people of the future will know who the deseased was in life. For it surely would look strange if the history books are telling of king this and queen that but in the Royal crypt only princesses and princes are buried...

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

It is so ritualistic that a former queen who on abdicating became a princess again is only again recognized as queen in death as "late" as she is really buried - so there are at no moment two queens regnant of the Netherlands above the earth. Not that it mattered for the deseased but it's an elegant way to deal with the fact that the Netherlands know an interregnum but make sure the people of the future will know who the deseased was in life. For it surely would look strange if the history books are telling of king this and queen that but in the Royal crypt only princesses and princes are buried...

It is more or less the same with the abdicated Edward VIII who is also King again on his grave stone:

The Prince Edward Albert Christian
George Andrew Patrick David
Duke of Windsor

King Edward VIII​

 

[Kataryn]

It is more or less the same with the abdicated Edward VIII who is also King again on his grave stone:

The Prince Edward Albert Christian
George Andrew Patrick David
Duke of Windsor

King Edward VIII​

I didn't know that. Thank you. Fascinating!

 

[Tatiana Maria]

1. By Royal Decree of February 16th, 1966 is declared that the children from this marriage (then Crown Princess Beatrix and Prince Claus) would bear the style and title HRH Prince (Princess) of the Netherlands, Prince (Princess) of Orange-Nassau, Jonkheer (Jonkvrouwe) van Amsberg.

2. By Royal Decree of January 25th, 2002 is declared that the children from this marriage (Crown Prince Willem-Alexander and Crown Princess Maxima) will bear the style and title HRH Prince (Princess) of the Netherlands, Prince (Princess) of Orange-Nassau.

3. The marriage of Prince Johan Friso to Mabel Wisse Smit was conducted without the necessary permission of the Parliament. Prince Johan Friso was therefore automatically declined of the right of succession for himself and his descendants.

By Royal Decree of March 19th is declared that from the moment of his marriage Prince Johan Friso retained the personal title Prince of Orange-Nassau with the style Royal Highness and received the hereditary title count as well as the surname "van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg.

4. By Royal Decree of May 11th, 2001 is declared that the children from this marriage (Prince Constantijn and Princess Laurentein) will bear the title Graaf if male (Gravin if female) van Oranje-Nassau, Jonkheer if male (Jonkvrouwe if female) van Amsberg.

A distinction is made in the Netherlands between the royal house and the royal family. Not every member of the Orange-Nassau family is a member of the royal house. Membership of the royal house is restricted by Act of Parliament to the head of state, the former head of state, the members of the royal family in line for the throne, and their spouses. The monarch is head of the royal house. The present royal house consists of Queen Beatrix and her sons - Princes Willem-Alexander and Constantijn, Princess Catharina-Amalia, the daughter of Prince Willem-Alexander, countess Eloise and count Claus-Casimir, the daughter and son of Prince Constantijn, the Queen's father Prince Bernhard, the Queen's younger sister Princess Margriet, her husband Mr Pieter van Vollenhoven, and their four sons Princes Maurits, Bernhard, Pieter-Christiaan and Floris, and the Princesses Máxima, Laurentien, Marilène and Annette.

I believe the workings of Dutch titles are comparable to Belgian titles: there is no such title as "Countess of Orange-Nassau" or "Jonkvrouwe van Amsberg", but the surname "of Orange-Nassau" is used after the title of "Countess" and the surname "van Amsberg" is used after the predicate "Jonkvrouwe".

For example, the Royal Decree of May 11, 2001 says:

De geslachtsnaam van de kinderen die geboren mochten worden uit het huwelijk van Zijne Koninklijke Hoogheid Prins Constantijn Christof Frederik Aschwin der Nederlanden, Prins van Oranje-Nassau, Jonkheer van Amsberg met Petra Laurentien Brinkhorst luidt «van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg», met de titel graaf en het predikaat jonkheer.

Zij zullen zijn: graaf (gravin) van Oranje-Nassau, jonkheer (jonkvrouwe) van Amsberg.


(The family name of the children who may be born in the marriage of His Royal Highness Prince Constantijn Christof Frederik Aschwin of the Netherlands, Prince of Orange-Nassau, Jonkheer van Amsberg with Petra Laurentien Brinkhorst is "of Orange-Nassau van Amsberg", with the title count and the predicate jonkheer.

(They will be: count (countess) of Orange-Nassau, jonkheer (jonkvrouwe) van Amsberg.)
​

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I believe the workings of Dutch titles are comparable to Belgian titles: there is no such title as "Countess of Orange-Nassau" or "Jonkvrouwe van Amsberg", but the surname "of Orange-Nassau" is used after the title of "Countess" and the surname "van Amsberg" is used after the predicate "Jonkvrouwe".

For example, the Royal Decree of May 11, 2001 says:

De geslachtsnaam van de kinderen die geboren mochten worden uit het huwelijk van Zijne Koninklijke Hoogheid Prins Constantijn Christof Frederik Aschwin der Nederlanden, Prins van Oranje-Nassau, Jonkheer van Amsberg met Petra Laurentien Brinkhorst luidt «van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg», met de titel graaf en het predikaat jonkheer.

Zij zullen zijn: graaf (gravin) van Oranje-Nassau, jonkheer (jonkvrouwe) van Amsberg.


(The family name of the children who may be born in the marriage of His Royal Highness Prince Constantijn Christof Frederik Aschwin of the Netherlands, Prince of Orange-Nassau, Jonkheer van Amsberg with Petra Laurentien Brinkhorst is "of Orange-Nassau van Amsberg", with the title count and the predicate jonkheer.

(They will be: count (countess) of Orange-Nassau, jonkheer (jonkvrouwe) van Amsberg.)
​

That is correct but a Jonkheer (Jonkvrouw) is not a title but a prefix to designate untitled nobility.

So the children of Prince Constantijn and Prince Friso have:
a surname (Van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg),
a title (graaf/gravin van Oranje-Nassau) and
a predicate (jonkheer/jonkvrouw van Amsberg).


The Nobility Act and the Civic code describes that the surname is preceded by a title or a predicate.
So it is "Eleonore gravin van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg" and "Max graaf van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg"

There are only a few exceptions, in which a noble title "breaks" in a surname:

Wolthera Juckema van Burmania barones Rengers
(surname: Juckema van Burmania Rengers)

Elisabeth van Panthaleon barones van Eck
(surname: van Panthaleon van Eck)

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Thank you for the information! But what I meant was that, according to the Royal Decree, the title is "graaf/gravin" and not "graaf/gravin van Oranje-Nassau" and the predicate is "jonkheer/jonkvrouw" and not "jonkheer/jonkvrouw van Amsberg", which I believe is in accordance with Dutch practice.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Thank you for the information! But what I meant was that, according to the Royal Decree, the title is "graaf/gravin" and not "graaf/gravin van Oranje-Nassau" and the predicate is "jonkheer/jonkvrouw" and not "jonkheer/jonkvrouw van Amsberg", which I believe is in accordance with Dutch practice.

Surname: Van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg
Title: graaf/gravin van Oranje-Nassau
Predicate: jonkheer/jonkvrouw van Amsberg

But Dutch name law only allows the use of a title in combination with the surname. See the official list from the Hoge Raad van Adel and search for Van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg.

https://www.hogeraadvanadel.nl/adel...families/noord-nederlandse-adellijke-families

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Surname: Van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg
Title: graaf/gravin van Oranje-Nassau
Predicate: jonkheer/jonkvrouw van Amsberg

But Dutch name law only allows the use of a title in combination with the surname. See the official list from the Hoge Raad van Adel and search for Van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg.

https://www.hogeraadvanadel.nl/adel...families/noord-nederlandse-adellijke-families

I understand that the title is always used in combination with the surname, but I'm afraid I don't understand the basis for the statement that "van Oranje-Nassau" is included in the title. The list fom the Hoge Raad van Adel also lists "graaf" rather than "graaf van Oranje-Nassau" as the "noble title".

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I understand that the title is always used in combination with the surname, but I'm afraid I don't understand the basis for the statement that "van Oranje-Nassau" is included in the title. The list fom the Hoge Raad van Adel also lists "graaf" rather than "graaf van Oranje-Nassau" as the "noble title".

You can not be a baron of a graaf on itself. It is always in combination with a given surname.
An example: the Dutch family De Riquet de Caraman, which continues in Belgium. Not only is there a difference in surname for the very same family, also the Dutch have only designated the head as prins, where the Belgians were more generous and applied this on the whole senior branch.

According the Dutch Royal Decree:

Surname
de Riquet de Caraman

The head
Philippe de Riquet de Caraman, prins van Chimay

The rest
de Riquet graaf (gravin) de Caraman


According the Belgian Royal Decree:

Surname
de Riquet de Caraman-Chimay

The head
Philippe de Riquet de Caraman-Chimay, prins van Chimay

Senior branch
de Riquet prins (prinses) de Caraman-Chimay

Junior branch
de Riquet graaf (gravin) de Caraman-Chimay

 

[Tatiana Maria]

What I have been attempting to say is that, to the best of my understanding, "graaf van Oranje-Nassau" is not a title, but a combination of the title "graaf" and the surname "van Oranje-Nassau".

In Belgium, a title is not connected to a given surname.

 

[Mbruno]

You can not be a baron of a graaf on itself. It is always in combination with a given surname.
An example: the Dutch princely family De Riquet de Caraman continues in Belgium.

According the Dutch Royal Decree:
- surname = de Riquet de Caraman
- the head of the family = de Riquet de Caraman, prins van Chimay
- the rest of the family = de Riquet, graaf (gravin) de Caraman

According the Belgian Royal Decree (acknowledging the existing Dutch nobility):
- surname = de Riquet de Caraman-Chimay
- the senior branch = de Riquet prins (prinses) de Caraman-Chimay
- the junior branches = de Riquet graaf (gravin) de Caraman-Chimay

In the Netherlands:
Elie de Riquet de Caraman, prins van Chimay (head)
Philippe de Riquet graaf de Caraman (son)

In Belgium:
Elie de Riquet de Caraman-Chimay, prins van Chimay (head)
Philippe de Riquet prins de Caraman-Chimay (son)

Is the style for names of Belgian noblemen the same in Dutch and in French ?

For example, do you say in French :

Patrick comte d’Udekem d’Acoz

Or

Comte Patrick d’Udekem d’Acoz ?

 

[Somebody]

What I have been attempting to say is that, to the best of my understanding, "graaf van Oranje-Nassau" is not a title, but a combination of the title "graaf" and the surname "van Oranje-Nassau".

In Belgium, a title is not connected to a given surname.

In the Netherlands it is. That's why someone who is the child of a count will not be a count(ess) him/herself if the parents would decide that the child would use their mother's surname.