Sotheby's Auction of Drawings & Silver from the Collection of the Dutch RF: Feb 2019

[lucien]

Sotheby's Auction of Drawings & Silver from the Collection of the Dutch RF: Feb 2019

Sotheby's London will auction off drawings and silver,a.o. from the collections of the Dutch RF.

The top piece is a drawing by P.P.Rubens.

The RF is cleaning up their atticks,there have been other auctions,anonymous,here in The Netherlands too recently.

 

[JR76]

All those palaces must be pretty stuffed if they can't find a spot for a Rubens.
Why are they having a clear out? Cash is easier to divvy up between heirs?

 

[Marengo]

The website of Sotheby's says that the Rubens drawing ïs the: "property of a princess". It is expected to fetch between 2.5 and 3.5 million dollars. It belonged to the collection of King Willem II. Note that after his death most of his art collection was sold to the Russian emperor. His heirs feared that they would be unable to pay the king's enormous debts.

There are 12 other drawings of old masters to be sold and several lots with porcelein, glassware and silverware. These are expected to fetch another 2.5-3.5 million dollars. Among these lots is glassware that was a gift to Juliana and Bernhard on the occasion of their wedding.

The NRC claims that the Rubens drawing used to grace the walls of the NYC appartment of Princess Christina.

https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2019/01/03/koninklijke-familie-laat-rubens-veilen-a3127887

-

Under Dutch law each child receives the same share of assets from a deceased parent. To keep the most important items together Queen Juliana started several funds. The foundation of the royal art collection supposedly has the most important items in it. The drawings that are auctioned off were perhaps not added to this foundation.

Perhaps the late Queen interpreted the foundation in a way that only items relevant for the royal family were added: namely paintings of ancestors and such. A Rubens drawing has little to no connection to the house of Orange, even though it may be of superior art historic value than other pieces that were added to the foundation.

The items that are sold of may be owned by Princess Christina or perhaps they were not divided between the four sisters. The article is not clear about that.

I am surprised that a Rubens drawing can still leave Europe, I thought there were some laws in place to make sure our patrimony does not leave the continent. Let's hope at the very least that it will be acquired by a museum and not by some billionaire.

The RVD refused to comment.

 

[An Ard Ri]

It will be worth watching to see whats sold in New York on January 30th and also would there be any objection to the sale of a Rubens by the royal house?

 

[maria-olivia]

The Drawings are from Rubens itself, his Paintings are from himself and his Atelier.

 

[Marengo]

It will be worth watching to see whats sold in New York on January 30th and also would there be any objection to the sale of a Rubens by the royal house?

In 2016 some concerns were raised when the family sold a painting by Raden Saleh to a museum in Singapore and 1200 maps from the 17th and 18th century to John Fentener van Vlissingen.

The concerns were multiple: why were the works not offered to Dutch musea? Can it be considered national heritage? Who is the owner of the pieces? King Willem II paid for much of his collection from state money. And why does the royal archive decide what items are considered private property of the family and which ones belong to the state? Etc. Many people were/are -falsely- under the impression that all items that belong to the royal family art part of a royal collection and can not be sold.

Note that the maps were registered under the Royal Collections. But according to the RVD they belonged to the part of the collection that was considered private. The family also sold a table and chairs of the Indian Hall in Noordeinde palace. So the foundation must protect a more limited amount of items than was previously assumed.

The border between state and private property can be unclear. i read somewhere (Jutta Chorus biography of Beatrix IIRC) that Queen Beatrix removed some items from Soestdijk that she considered private. The secretary of culture at the time thought that they belonged to the state and sent a truck to Huis ten Bosch to collect the items. Something simular happened in Belgium when the then CP Philippe wanted some furniture from the palace on the Meir in Antwerp for his private apartments in Laeken while the Flemish government said the furniture belonged to the state & the items were duly returned.

It is a pity that the Rubens drawing -as maria-olivia says: by the master himself and not by his atelier - was never added to the art foundation of the RF. Noordeinde and Dam palace -which both resemble High end hotels instead of palaces- have plenty of empty walls. But considering it is private property they have all the right in the world to do with them as they see fit. If f.e. they belong to Pss Christina, it makes no difference if she sells them now or if her descendants will do so in x decades, as we saw in Denmark recently.

The general public of course has mostly other concerns than art or the royal family.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Princess Christina and her former husband Mr Jorge Pérez Guillermo have been very active in buying and selling artworks and antique. Their newly build villa, De Eikenhorst, on the royal estate De Horsten (now owned by the King) was stuffed from floor to roof with paintings and artworks.

Princess Christina lives abroad. Her children live abroad. They have virtually no any royal business to do (in contrary to their Bourbon-Parma cousins for an example) and that part of the family has been active in selling and investing, for an example with trusts on the Channel Islands.

Picture: salon in De Eikenhorst when Princess Christina lived there: http://www.paleizen.nl/Paleizenbest...g/Wassenaar/Bibliotheek tijdens Christina.jpg

Picture: salon in De Eikenhorst now: https://images1.persgroep.net/rcs/7...=e9b4e2a1869038ffcaf318a6d1463b0b&quality=0.8

The two pictures also show total different tastes in art and understandably that private persons can buy art, but of course also sell art.

 

[Marengo]

During/after the divorce the princess auctioned the collection that she and Jorge Guillermo built. I believe one painting (with a peeled orange IIRC) was bought by Palace Het Loo.

The items that are offered today supposedly come from the inheritance of Queen Juliana. It is possible that they belong to Pss Chrstina but it is not certain.

Note that Queen Juliana was no stranger to selling possessions either. You will be familiar with the story that a shocked courtier reported some of Juliana's jewels stolen after seeing them offered in a shop window in London, only to discover that it was the Queen herself who sold them.

It is fortunate that the most important paintings of the family were donated by King Willem I to the state. They form(ed) the base of the collection of our national museum. It was the second time he saved these treasure for the nation. The first time was after the battle of Waterloo when he sent the army to the Louvre to confiquate them after the French looted them. The Italians were unable to do so.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The foundations set up by Queen Juliana are stuffed with items considered "subservient to a proper execution of the royal dignity".

Of course, one can argue: is a drawing of Rubens or 18th C silverware not subservient to the royal function? But when one visits exhibitions in Amsterdam or Apeldoorn and sees the artworks but also all the gold-, silver-, crystal- and porcelain ware during State Banquets, when one sees the unbelievable jewels of Queen Máxima and when we know that the Royal House Archives in The Hague have extra underground floors in depôt added, and that the conservator of Het Loo says "only a fraction" from the collection of the House is in exhibition, then we may assume all four the Princesses have received valuable items but that the bulk, with the most important items, have been placed in these foundations, to serve King Willem-Alexander or the future Queen Catharina-Amalia.

 

[lucien]

During/after the divorce the princess auctioned the collection that she and Jorge Guillermo built. I believe one painting (with a peeled orange IIRC) was bought by Palace Het Loo.

The items that are offered today supposedly come from the inheritance of Queen Juliana. It is possible that they belong to Pss Chrstina but it is not certain.

Note that Queen Juliana was no stranger to selling possessions either. You will be familiar with the story that a shocked courtier reported some of Juliana's jewels stolen after seeing them offered in a shop window in London, only to discover that it was the Queen herself who sold them.

It is fortunate that the most important paintings of the family were donated by King Willem I to the state. They form(ed) the base of the collection of our national museum. It was the second time he saved these treasure for the nation. The first time was after the battle of Waterloo when he sent the armybto the Louvre to confiquate them after the French looted them. The Italians were unable to do so.

All this material to be auctioned is from the late Princess Juliana's youngest daughter.She has no use for them nor have her children as they all have a shipload,or in any case more then enough of this sort of items.All is legal without any trouble/problem by anyone else of the Family nor Dutch Law.It's all simular to the sale last month of items of the estate of the late Danish Princess Elisabeth by her offspring.

We,or some,might think the world of it all,but to the sellers it's all the same,with the exception of a Rubens ofcourse.The Dutch Museum Fund will try to keep the Rubens within our borders,I hope they succeed.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I understood none of the offered items is in the database with protected patrimonium under the Erfgoedwet 2016 (Heritage Act 2016) which would mean it needs to be offered to Dutch museums or the State, to protect it from leaving the country.

The Rubens drawing is of importance but not that important that there is a ban to bring it to auction.

 

[Mbruno]

The foundations set up by Queen Juliana are stuffed with items considered "subservient to a proper execution of the royal dignity".

Of course, one can argue: is a drawing of Rubens or 18th C silverware not subservient to the royal function? But when one visits exhibitions in Amsterdam or Apeldoorn and sees the artworks but also all the gold-, silver-, crystal- and porcelain ware during State Banquets, when one sees the unbelievable jewels of Queen Máxima and when we know that the Royal House Archives in The Hague have extra underground floors in depôt added, and that the conservator of Het Loo says "only a fraction" from the collection of the House is in exhibition, then we may assume all four the Princesses have received valuable items but that the bulk, with the most important items, have been placed in these foundations, to serve King Willem-Alexander or the future Queen Catharina-Amalia.

I don't think the purpose of the art collection is "to serve King Willem-Alexander or the future Queen Catharina-Amalia". Instead, to use the same terminology that is used in the UK to refer to the Royal Collection and the Occupied Palaces Estate, they are "held in trust by the sovereign for the nation".

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I don't think the purpose of the art collection is "to serve King Willem-Alexander or the future Queen Catharina-Amalia". Instead, to use the same terminology that is used in the UK to refer to the Royal Collection and the Occupied Palaces Estate, they are "held in trust by the sovereign for the nation".

No. The nation has nothing to do with it. The foundations were set up by Queen Juliana, essentially her inheritance went to a fifth, non-natural legal entity, aside her four daughters. It has nothing to do with the nation. The descriptions of the royal foundations are clear:

The Foundation Archives of the House Orange-Nassau 1968:
"To collect and to manage the archivalia of the House Orange-Nassau, the House Nassau, or a House related to these"
Manager of the Foundation: His Majesty The King
This foundation is the base of the House Archives and it's building in the park of Noordeinde Palace.

The Foundation Regalia of the House Orange-Nassau 1963
The Foundation Crown Properties of the House Orange-Nassau 1968
Both Foundations merged into the Foundation Crown Properties of the House Orange-Nassau 2008:
"To ensure that descendants of Her Majesty Queen Wilhelmina, princess of Orange-Nassau, have properties at their disposal, needed for the execution of the royal dignity"
Manager of the Foundation: His Majesty The King
This foundation is the base of the countless properties in the palaces which are in use. From carriages to jewels. From artworks to goldware.

Foundation Historic Collections of the House Orange-Nassau 1972
"To collect and to manage works of art and objects related to the House Orange-Nassau or the House Nassau which are no longer in daily use"
Manager of the Foundation: Her Majesty Queen Máxima
This foundation is the base of the countless objects loaned to exhibitions, loans to Het Loo Palace, loans to museums in- and outside the Netherlands, loans to private houses of members of the royal family.

Sotheby's stated that the offered items (drawings, china, glassware by Lalique, some 18th C silverware) are "property of a Dutch princess". The drawing of Peter Paul Rubens was acquired by King Willem II, the Lalique glassware a gigt to Queen Juliana, so we know it is from the inheritance of Queen Juliana to one of her daughters. It seems the drawing was seen in the New York appartment of Princess Christina, so possibly she is the seller.

 

[maria-olivia]

Yesterday the 4th Dutch News.nl wrote :
Anonymous Dutch Royal put up Rubens drawing for Auction. Owner of private collections are free to auction off the item.
(Prince Bernard did it before for WWF.)
Certainly the Dutch Royal family knew it.
Items from royal Provenance are actually " bingo" for the great selling Houses. !25 % )
A lot a minor royals are in money need , it started last year with the Bourbon and the Rosenborg.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Yesterday the 4th Dutch News.nl wrote :
Anonymous Dutch Royal put up Rubens drawing for Auction. Owner of private collections are free to auction off the item.
(Prince Bernard did it before for WWF.)
Certainly the Dutch Royal family knew it.
Items from royal Provenance are actually " bingo" for the great selling Houses. !25 % )
A lot a minor royals are in money need , it started last year with the Bourbon and the Rosenborg.

Princess Christina is absolutely not in need: Queen Juliana has set up a special foundation to finance her three youngest daughters: Stichting Bewind 1963. Followed by another foundation: the Foundation Functional Costs House of Orange-Nassau 1968. The Princesses Irene, Margriet and Christina have never had a normal paid job or something. They have married pauvre husbands. But they lead fine lifestyles. That money is provided by these foundations, plus their inheritances (after 2004), plus the loans of properties from royal foundations to use in their private houses.

These three princesses are all in their seventies and have children and grandchildren. The real fragmentation will start there, with the four Bourbon-Parmas, the four Van Vollenhovens and the three Guillermos. And all of them will have to pay inheritance taxes. And maybe the three Guillermos or Christina's advisers said: sell the Lalique, sell the Rubens, sell that porcelain, invest it in assets. It will save them problems with distribution and taxes.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Princess Christina and her former husband Mr Jorge Pérez Guillermo have been very active in buying and selling artworks and antique. Their newly build villa, De Eikenhorst, on the royal estate De Horsten (now owned by the King) was stuffed from floor to roof with paintings and artworks.

Princess Christina lives abroad. Her children live abroad. They have virtually no any royal business to do (in contrary to their Bourbon-Parma cousins for an example) and that part of the family has been active in selling and investing, for an example with trusts on the Channel Islands.

Picture: salon in De Eikenhorst when Princess Christina lived there: http://www.paleizen.nl/Paleizenbest...g/Wassenaar/Bibliotheek tijdens Christina.jpg

Picture: salon in De Eikenhorst now: https://images1.persgroep.net/rcs/7...=e9b4e2a1869038ffcaf318a6d1463b0b&quality=0.8

The two pictures also show total different tastes in art and understandably that private persons can buy art, but of course also sell art.

Hard to believe its the same room ,though the red colour is a bit over powering I prefer the style of the room during Princess Christina's tenure.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Hard to believe its the same room ,though the red colour is a bit over powering I prefer the style of the room during Princess Christina's tenure.

As they throw nothing away, I believe the green sofa in the salon of Princess Christina is the same as what is now in the library of De Eikenhorst:

Christina:
http://www.paleizen.nl/Paleizenbest...g/Wassenaar/Bibliotheek tijdens Christina.jpg

Willem-Alexander:
https://images3.persgroep.net/rcs/Q...=93a17a8fd81db0de025c8abd1cca1279&quality=0.8

For an example, the King has temporary office spaces in the park of De Eikenhorst (containers). His choice? Arch-ugly fauteuils once used by his father Prince Claus at Drakensteyn, at least 50 years old, including plaid.... :
https://nos.nl/data/image/2017/10/13/424140/xxl.jpg

 

[maria-olivia]

The Auction is not cancelled and I hope Rubens work will come back to Europe.

 

[tommy100]

Well at least they aren't buying those awful sofas and chairs.

 

[tommy100]

Princess Christina is absolutely not in need: Queen Juliana has set up a special foundation to finance her three youngest daughters: Stichting Bewind 1963. Followed by another foundation: the Foundation Functional Costs House of Orange-Nassau 1968. The Princesses Irene, Margriet and Christina have never had a normal paid job or something. They have married pauvre husbands. But they lead fine lifestyles. That money is provided by these foundations, plus their inheritances (after 2004), plus the loans of properties from royal foundations to use in their private houses.

These three princesses are all in their seventies and have children and grandchildren. The real fragmentation will start there, with the four Bourbon-Parmas, the four Van Vollenhovens and the three Guillermos. And all of them will have to pay inheritance taxes. And maybe the three Guillermos or Christina's advisers said: sell the Lalique, sell the Rubens, sell that porcelain, invest it in assets. It will save them problems with distribution and taxes.

Absolutely, for the children and grandchildren why have a Reuben on the wall instead of cash in the bank?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Multi-millionaire Bernhard van Vollenhoven, with his race circuit and his 350 houses in Amsterdam alone, can buy it without problem. The same can be said about multi-millionaire Mabel, over there in Kensington. Probably both have access to equally valuable artworks, via purchase, as gifts, inheritance or just loans from the Foundation Historic Collections of the House Orange-Nassau. I have no idea if these artworks are offered first to family. I guess so.

 

[maria-olivia]

Milliardaires Mr Ch from China , Mr W from Russia or Mr Z from Dallas will buy valuable artworks.

 

[Marengo]

According to the NRC the items that are being auctioned off indeed belong to princess Christina.

https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2019/01/08/te-veilen-oranjekunst-van-prinses-christina-a3136062

The first time the princess auctioned things was in 1988. At the time she auctioned 100 historical coins that belonged to her grandmother. She claimed to have little pleasure in these coins due to her limited eye sight. Fred Lammers noted that the costs for the interior decoration of the Eikenhorst were higher than anticipated.

 

[maria-olivia]

Marengo , I went to Haarlem with a belgian group in december . We visited the Frans Hals Museum and in the afternoon de Teylers Museum , your oldest Museum . I saw indeed this Battle of Anghiarai Drawing in the Da Vinci Drawings Exhibition without knowing it belonged to your Princess Christina.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The critics say that Princess Christina should offer her items to Dutch museums because "we" must keep the Rubens drawing.

I do not understand that. That drawing was never public. It has been in Princess Christina's NY appartment. "We" could not see it. Had Princess Christina not offered it fo auction, it would have been inherited by Bernardo, Nicolas or Juliana Guillermo, all of them living in foreign countries. The drawing would have left the Netherlands as well, without one even realizing.

There is some weird thinking amongst the critics. The drawing is not on the list of protected patrimonium but still it should stay in the Netherlands, they claim. The private person Christina wants to get good revenue for it, but no, she should offer it to Dutch museums for "a reasonable price".

The double standards by the critics are unbelievable. Every owner is free to purchase and to sell, but apparently not Christina.

 

[lucien]

The critics say that Princess Christina should offer her items to Dutch museums because "we" must keep the Rubens drawing.

I do not understand that. That drawing was never public. It has been in Princess Christina's NY appartment. "We" could not see it. Had Princess Christina not offered it fo auction, it would have been inherited by Bernardo, Nicolas or Juliana Guillermo, all of them living in foreign countries. The drawing would have left the Netherlands as well, without one even realizing.

There is some weird thinking amongst the critics. The drawing is not on the list of protected patrimonium but still it should stay in the Netherlands, they claim. The private person Christina wants to get good revenue for it, but no, she should offer it to Dutch museums for "a reasonable price".

The double standards by the critics are unbelievable. Every owner is free to purchase and to sell, but apparently not Christina.

Hear Hear Hear!!

Some,...read..the critics.on fora and boards alike..think Christina needs their approval to sell anything!!Clearly cases of "fan"/ "hobby" deformation!!Who on earth do they think they are??!!gnore them.Too rediculous for words,really,the nerve!

 

[Lee-Z]

The double standards by the critics are unbelievable. Every owner is free to purchase and to sell, but apparently not Christina.

As i understand it, official art collections are obligated to try to find a way to keep relevant art in the country, big private collectors aren't obligated but often still do adhear to that policy.
The Orange family is legally completely in the right to do what they do, but morally, as a sort of "first family of the country" it's a different matter.

This just gives more fuel to the idea that the very rich Orange family is primarily interested in money and will do a lot to either get more or not spend it if they can get others to spend.

those were my 2cts

Article about the matter quoting Sjarel Ex, director of Boijmans van Beuningen
https://www.ad.nl/show/oranjes-moet...ling-dit-is-niet-de-koninklijke-weg~a89e868f/
(can't get google translate to take it without cookie trouble)

 

[Somebody]

The Dutch prime minister stated in his press conference that he would not interfere in this matter.

 

[Lee-Z]

as there legally nothing wrong i didn't really expect the politicians to interfere, the Oranges can do with their collection what they want

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

SECOND CHAMBER OF THE ESTATES-GENERAL

QUESTIONS by the member Mrs S. Belhaj (D66) to the Minister-President about the sale of a drawing by Rubens ("Nude Study Of A Young Man With Raised Arms") by the royal family.

ANSWERS by the Minister of Education, Culture and Sciences, Mrs I.K. van Engelshoven.

Date: January 8th 2019

----------------------------------------------------

QUESTION 1
What is your opinion about the intended auction in the USA by the royal family of an artwork, which is a pre-study of one of Rubens' most famous works, without offering it to Dutch museums first?

ANSWER 1
The artwork is private property of the royal family. It is to any particulier to decide if, when and how an artwork is offered for sale.

QUESTION 2
Are you of the opinion that it is important to keep this kind of artworks owned by the royal family in Dutch ownership, as much as possible? If no: why not?

ANSWER 2
Fiscal rules and the policy of museums are aimed to encourage voluntary contributions to the public ownership of artworks. The initiative to obtain works of importance lies with the museums. Museums which believe that an artwork on the market could be an important addition to the collection, can request financial support from the Mondriaan Fund. They can also request financial support from the Museal Purchases Fund as well from several private funds to obtain desired artworks.

QUESTION 3
Are you, as Minister-President, willing to make an appeal to the royal family, to inventarize if there is Dutch interest in the artworks? If no: why not?

QUESTION 4
Are you of the opinion, concerning properties of the royal family, that first an inventarisation should be made of interest by Dutch museums, to prevent Dutch artworks disappearing in foreign hands?

ANSWER 3 and 4
In reply I would like to refer to the given answers on the questions 1 and 2. There is no any need to make an exception for the royal family on the usual procedures.

QUESTION 5
Are you willing to answer these questions as soon as possible, seeing the date of the intended auction?

ANSWER 5
Yes.


https://www.tweedekamer.nl/kamerstukken/kamervragen/detail?id=2019D00551&did=2019D00551