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  #41  
Old 08-05-2005, 10:02 AM
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Anyone about the relationship of Queen Beatrix with her sister Princess Irene?At the funerals of their parents,i saw Queen Beatrix went together with Princess Irene.But at other events like Queen's Day or the day opening Parliament,Princess Irene not attend oftenly.
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  #42  
Old 08-05-2005, 11:17 AM
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Happy birthday to princess Irene !!
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  #43  
Old 08-06-2005, 05:47 PM
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Hi QM Elizabeth,

The reason that princess Irene has been largely absent on Dutch Queensdays, is because she is not officially in line for the throne any longer. She gave up that prerogative in the sixties in order to marry the Catholic Carlos Hugo. The Dutch Royal family is of course Protestant, and in those days, one paid a price for marrying outside of the religious realm. How different nowadays, with Willem Alexander married to a Catholic!

I believe that the relationship between queen Beatrix and all her sisters is pretty amicable. In the eighties, however, Irene was known as a bit of a left-winger/liberal, and a vocal one at that, not quite sure what Beatrix made of that at the time. Irene and Beatrix differ night and day in temperament, it seems. Beatrix is the no nonsense, business-like queen, albeit a friendly one. Irene is the dreamy one with a sort of hippy value system. This doesn't exclude from the sisters getting along fine however, which I believe they do.
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  #44  
Old 08-09-2005, 04:35 PM
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I agree Princess Olga! I have never read anything to suggest that Beatrix doesn't get along with Irene (or any of her sisters for that matter). The Queen strikes me as a fairly non-judgmental person, so even though she may differ from Irene in temperment, interests, lifestyle, etc., I think she accepts Irene as she is.

One thing HMQueenElizabethII, it is true that at their father's (& mother's) funeral, Beatrice & Irene walked side by side up the aisle in the Church, etc., while Christina and Margriet followed behind. This does not mean that Irene is the Queen's favourite sister. The four sisters were simply walking according to their birth order, with the older sisters out front, the younger ones behind.
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  #45  
Old 08-09-2005, 05:00 PM
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Thanks Olga and Squidgy lots.So now i have got it,and know more about Queen beatrix and her sisters.Before i always wondered about this,why Princess Irene always went and sat alongside her sister Queen Beatrix but why at the other Royal Events she rarely attends.And now i have got the answers.Thanks you guys lots.
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  #46  
Old 08-10-2005, 05:38 AM
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one minor correction though, although it caused a public outcry in some regions of the country when Irene married a catholic (schools, streets etc named after princess Irene changed names), the reason that she did not ask consent to parlaiment for her wedding with the Duke of Parma was that the Duke was said to be pretender to the throne of Spain. The couple had to give up rights to either the dutch or the spanish throne, and the parma´s were not willing to give up their (silly) claims and Irene did.

The dutch RF did not attend the wedding of Princess Irene for this reason and because the dutch gouverment wanted to prevent an international accident with the spanish leaders as Franco preferred the present King to the house of Bourbon-Parma.
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  #47  
Old 08-10-2005, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
The dutch RF did not attend the wedding of Princess Irene for this reason and because the dutch gouverment wanted to prevent an international accident with the spanish leaders as Franco preferred the present King to the house of Bourbon-Parma.
Really? Do you mean that Juliana and Bernhard did not attend their own daughter's wedding?
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  #48  
Old 08-10-2005, 05:02 PM
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correct, they were forbidden by the dutch gouverment. Juliana, Bernhard, Beatrix, Margriet and Marijke (now Christina) wathed it on television at Castle Warmelo where Princess Armgard lived. Halfway during the wedding the television went black and they could not see more of their daughters wedding.
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  #49  
Old 08-10-2005, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
correct, they were forbidden by the dutch gouverment. Juliana, Bernhard, Beatrix, Margriet and Marijke (now Christina) wathed it on television at Castle Warmelo where Princess Armgard lived. Halfway during the wedding the television went black and they could not see more of their daughters wedding.
Oh my! That is sooooo sad! (And I have to admit, just a little funny - at least the part about the TV going black :)) Thank goodness that times have changed since then - at least I hope they have!
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  #50  
Old 08-10-2005, 08:59 PM
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How did you hear that story about the tv??? I wonder how the family must have felt.
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  #51  
Old 08-10-2005, 10:33 PM
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Marengo, what you're saying is very interesting. I had always thought that Carlos Hugo and his ancestors had a valid claim to the Spanish throne somehow, and that he and Irene didn't give up hope in that realm until well into the seventies. And then the fact that that hope turned out to be futille (i.e. with Juan Carlos ascending the throne, not carlos hugo) that was supposedly a major factor in the breakdown of irene's and carlos hugo's marriage.
Is that correct, as far as you know? If you have the information, would you mind kind of explaining why carlos hugo's claim to the spanish throne was a bit deluded? I'd love to get the skinny on that! Thanks much, this is a fascinating topic!
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  #52  
Old 08-11-2005, 03:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidgy
Oh my! That is sooooo sad! (And I have to admit, just a little funny - at least the part about the TV going black :)) Thank goodness that times have changed since then - at least I hope they have!
I am not sure they have, remember daddy Z. not being allowed to attend his daughters wedding?
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  #53  
Old 08-11-2005, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiffyBallerina
How did you hear that story about the tv??? I wonder how the family must have felt.
No, I read it in several books about Juliana / Bernhard / Beatrix, by different authors. I also wonder what the family felt, Irene was wearing a veil made from familylace so I think they supported her a bit, eventhough there was a sort of rift between Irene and her parents afterwards (reconsiliation was the birth of Prince Carlos in 1971, Juliana was a godmother)
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  #54  
Old 08-11-2005, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princess olga
Marengo, what you're saying is very interesting. I had always thought that Carlos Hugo and his ancestors had a valid claim to the Spanish throne somehow, and that he and Irene didn't give up hope in that realm until well into the seventies. And then the fact that that hope turned out to be futille (i.e. with Juan Carlos ascending the throne, not carlos hugo) that was supposedly a major factor in the breakdown of irene's and carlos hugo's marriage.
Is that correct, as far as you know? If you have the information, would you mind kind of explaining why carlos hugo's claim to the spanish throne was a bit deluded? I'd love to get the skinny on that! Thanks much, this is a fascinating topic!
The Carlist claim was / is valid, but in these days very unrealistic. In those years I think Franco gave some people enough leads for them to create hope, but he never intended to restore the throne to anyone else but Juan-Carlos. The marriage breakdown was indeed about lost hopes etc. I thought that Carlos-Hugo was more realistic then his ex-wife (his mother never forgave and blamed him for the murder of her husband & prince sixte inherited everything). Although I do not think Irene had any hopes by then to become Queen of Spain, she sympathised with the Carlist cause. I have an article somewhere of here attending a ceremony on a mountain of the carlists which turned out in a great mess & shootings etc.

It must have been a bit emberassing for the RF and in particular Queen Beatrix as she is fond of both Carlos-Hugo and Juan-Carlos.

In hindsight his claims were a bit unrealistic, but as I said before, in the 50-ties Franco gave the family some reasons to hope & expect (a way to keep the count of Barcelona quiet?). The carlist claims however date much longer back then Carlos-Hugo and Irene. I have a book about it called ´Royal Vendetta´, by the late Theo Aronson.Very interesting book!
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  #55  
Old 08-11-2005, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
I am not sure they have, remember daddy Z. not being allowed to attend his daughters wedding?
I did forget about that! Of course, you are right, things haven't probably changed that much. I feel sorry for the RF in a way. Sure they have wealth and privilege, etc. But their personal lives are dictated by politics and public pressure to such a large degree. This is true of all RFs I think.

Thanks for all the info Marengo. I find this topic fascinating. And thanks for the reference to the Theo Aronson book - I hadn't realized that he had written about the Dutch RF.
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  #56  
Old 08-11-2005, 10:22 AM
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I think things have changed. W-A married a Catholic! The whole thing with her dad is understandable- it had nothing to do with religious ties (when that was the major factor in Irene's situation). If I were Queen Beatrix, I wouldn't have allowed him there either.
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  #57  
Old 08-11-2005, 12:12 PM
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the troubles with Irene wasnt Carlos catholic background, as I said, it was because he and his father 'claimed´ the spanish throne, while the gouverment supported the claims of the count of Barcelona (and his son Juan-Carlos).
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  #58  
Old 08-11-2005, 01:34 PM
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Marengo, thanks for explaining! I didn't realize there was even a murder in the story! I have to go find that book you're mentioning, what a story!

By the way, Irene is probably my favorite Juliana daughter. She's a bit 'out there' but that makes her so fascinating. She wrote a couple of books about talking with animals, trees, etc. I wouldn't be surprised that instead of being 'catholic', these days she'd be practicing buddism or sth of the sort. (just conjecturing on the buddism thing!)
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  #59  
Old 09-13-2005, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princess olga
Marengo, thanks for explaining! I didn't realize there was even a murder in the story! I have to go find that book you're mentioning, what a story!

By the way, Irene is probably my favorite Juliana daughter. She's a bit 'out there' but that makes her so fascinating. She wrote a couple of books about talking with animals, trees, etc. I wouldn't be surprised that instead of being 'catholic', these days she'd be practicing buddism or sth of the sort. (just conjecturing on the buddism thing!)
I am sorry to disappoint you, but there is not. Madelaine of Parma (Carlos-Hugo's mother) was blaming CH for her husbands death (heart-attack) and said he murdered his father. Thats why her younger son Sixtus inherited everything and Carlos Hugo has to borrow money from his children. As Sixtus is not of the marrying kind it is possible that CH or his son(s) will get the family property back.
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Old 09-13-2005, 05:13 AM
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Here a picture originally posted by misshelen. It is Maria-Carolina of Bourbon-Parma (who looks rather well!) and Prince Alexander of Isenburg-Birstein. According to gossipmagazine 'weekend', the two are having a relationship (As Alexander did not attend previous public family gatherings, I assume he wasn't a friend of the family before, so they might be right (let's hope so). His sister Catherine is married to Archduke Martin of Austria-Este (brother of Lorenz of Austria/ Belgium) and it is said his sister Sophie is dating Georg-Friedrich of Prussia.

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...hmentid=197101
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