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  #41  
Old 04-14-2019, 05:12 PM
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They can not do much about it. The King and the Queen are very popular and have a good rapport. The trick is to convince that a hereditary monarchy is the best form of state. I applaud the Dutch youngsters for having an independent mind and an own opinion. It would be worrisome if youngsters think that a hereditary monarchy is perfectly normal and the best for a country.

At the same time the support for a republic is nowhere. So I interpret this as unease. A monarchy is a strange institution and does this fit in a modern state and should it cost that much? At the same time they see no need to overturn it and call for a republic. Probably because the idea of one of those Dutch politicians as a president is less appealing than leaving the King and Queen (who enjoy great popularity and a good rapport) where they are, despite the doubt about the institution.
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  #42  
Old 04-14-2019, 08:09 PM
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I think that monarchy is a much better form of government than the republic. A king dedicates himself to his country much better than a president. For a king it is a mission. For a president, his job is just an ambition.
I love the idea of a royal family having a mission to represent their country and to have a "special role" in their country.
It is interesting to see how each royal family adapts to the evolution of the times.
Everything may change in the country, but the royal family is still there.
I love that my neighboring country (Spain) has restored its monarchy.
I am sad that my country (Portugal) abolished its monarchy in 1910. I have hope of a day to see it restored.
I will always be a monarchist.
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  #43  
Old 04-14-2019, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
Popularity of the dutch monarchy among young people (18-34) has decreased from 70% in 2007 to 55% at present. This is one of the results of the annual poll (always held sometime near the King's day celebration)
https://nos.nl/artikel/2280446-jonge...er-zitten.html

google translated
It is interesting to see that per the chart, a gap between those 18-34 and the national average only opened around the time of Queen Beatrix's abdication.
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  #44  
Old 04-15-2019, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
It is interesting to see that per the chart, a gap between those 18-34 and the national average only opened around the time of Queen Beatrix's abdication.
There are banners in my town, for these typical big King's Day events and one of them is called "Heimwee naar Bea" (Homesick for Bea).

Anyway the idea that the stately Queen making place for a younger generation would be a boost amongst youngsters was idle. But once again, the popularity and the rapport of royals themselves is very good. It is just that the monarchy, a system of designating the head of state by hereditary succession, is loosing it's appeal. It has been a downward trend for decades. At the same time the support for a republic is not developing, so all by all it is more a moodboard than something practical.
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  #45  
Old 04-20-2019, 11:23 PM
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In regards to the position of various political parties in the Netherlands towards the monarchy, I've found that only the Socialist Party, the GreenLeft, and the Party for the Animals are really interested in a republic. However keep in mind that this a long time goal, not really for a sort of "the moment we are in power" type of goal. As it stands, according to the current opinion polls for the next Dutch general election the three parties combined would get about 35% of the vote and the Socialist Party has actually been losing support in the polls from what I've seen so pro-Republican parties could actually wind up with less than 35%.

So nothing to really worry about, keep calm and carry on.

-Frozen Royalist
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  #46  
Old 04-21-2019, 03:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozen Royalist View Post
In regards to the position of various political parties in the Netherlands towards the monarchy, I've found that only the Socialist Party, the GreenLeft, and the Party for the Animals are really interested in a republic. However keep in mind that this a long time goal, not really for a sort of "the moment we are in power" type of goal. As it stands, according to the current opinion polls for the next Dutch general election the three parties combined would get about 35% of the vote and the Socialist Party has actually been losing support in the polls from what I've seen so pro-Republican parties could actually wind up with less than 35%.

So nothing to really worry about, keep calm and carry on.

-Frozen Royalist
No any Dutch party has a real practical desire for a republic and the Dutch fragmented landscape means always coalitions are needed to obtain a workable majority. But that the monarchy itself is loosing appeal is a phenomenon hardly to ignore. This counts for all institutions. For the Church, for the EU, for the Parliament, for Justice, for banks, for the education system, etc.

Once again it is not about the King or Queen Máxima themselves, whom enjoy a good approval and popularity. It is about having a system in which birth, and not a free democratic choice, delivers the next head of state.

That the current political parties do not favour a monarchy say nothing. Du moment that the monarchy scores around 50% in the polls, more and more politicians will back a referendum, under pressure of (social) media and smart campaigns by influencial republican-minded activists. Just take a look at Brexit, just take a look at the Gilets Jaunes, just take a look at the Catalonian secession movement, just take a look at the climate protests, just take a look at the Lega Nord/5 Stelle appeal in Italy.

Just a little bit of clever activism is needed to bring the institution into danger zone. Look what happened to the phenomenon of the popular figure of Black Peter in the Dutch Saint-Nicholas celebrations. Look what happened to the splendid Dutch Golden State Coach, with panels depicting colonial pride. Look what happened to statues or street names of once Great Men, whose actions of centuries ago are judged with the eyes of 2019. While the overwhelming majority does not care at all, direct and clever (social) media-activism by a vocal minority won all this.

And once again, do not look to darling Victoria, charming Amalia or sweet Elisabeth. As said: personal popularity is not one-on-one to be translated into popularity of the monarchy.
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  #47  
Old 04-21-2019, 03:57 AM
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So the professionally offended managed to get rid of Black Pieter?

When the pendulum swings back and all this offense-craze seize to have effect, we will be in for years where we all will have to develop a very thick hide!
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  #48  
Old 04-21-2019, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
So the professionally offended managed to get rid of Black Pieter?

When the pendulum swings back and all this offense-craze seize to have effect, we will be in for years where we all will have to develop a very thick hide!
While more than 85% loves the figure of Black Peter, under immense pressure of activists that figure has become an unwanted phenomenon in official public celebrations. While probably more than 85% sees no problem in the Golden State Coach, I bet that after the current restoration the then sparkling new guilded carriage will be stored in the Royal Mews as no one wants to see scenes of royal processions passing shouting and yelling protesters because of colonial depictions on the door panels. Then weird enough a ferocious minority wins it from the silent majority.

When such a minority makes good use of (social) media and dominates talkshows anf sparks a fiery debate, I can easily see the monarchy coming in danger zone. Not that it will be abolished, but the tranquil and distance will have made place for eternal debate. See Spain. I make myself no illusions. All what is worth keeping, is defenceless, these days.
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  #49  
Old 04-21-2019, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
Popularity of the dutch monarchy among young people (18-34) has decreased from 70% in 2007 to 55% at present. This is one of the results of the annual poll (always held sometime near the King's day celebration)
https://nos.nl/artikel/2280446-jonge...er-zitten.html

google translated
Nothing special really coming from that age group.Everything is oldfashioned to them,parents first in that respect..,costs too much,"we can do without this that and another thing etc etc enz..Nothing special especially when this group is only interested in app-away the day and to count the messages they receive and relate that to their popularity...They do NOT count in any serious poll in my book as they live by the craze of the day and haven't got a clue on what\s what and how and who and if you pay them for it...Oh...and then comes the time they need pecunia for this that and a morgage,a baby-sit a this that..and yes,reality sinks in and they see matters quite differently.No worries...In time they do seem to have that extra grey cell.Next!!!
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  #50  
Old 04-21-2019, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucien View Post
Nothing special really coming from that age group.Everything is oldfashioned to them,parents first in that respect..,costs too much,"we can do without this that and another thing etc etc enz..Nothing special especially when this group is only interested in app-away the day and to count the messages they receive and relate that to their popularity...They do NOT count in any serious poll in my book as they live by the craze of the day and haven't got a clue on what\s what and how and who and if you pay them for it...Oh...and then comes the time they need pecunia for this that and a morgage,a baby-sit a this that..and yes,reality sinks in and they see matters quite differently.No worries...In time they do seem to have that extra grey cell.Next!!!
Still in the same age group the popularity of the monarchy is in decline. For decades. Those mobiles, apps, Facebook and Instagram are there for years and years. So the fresh approach of the new royal couple (themselves popular anyway) had no effect in turning the tide for the institution.

There is no danger. But the downward trend certainly is there. When it jumps under 50% it gets a self-fulfilling force.

It also does not help that at the one side a prince is a speculant with hundreds of properties in Amsterdam, a city plagued with housing shortages. And it does not help that at the other side a princess sells Rubens, Lalique and others for big money. We can embrace ourselves when the Princess of Orange gets 1,6 million Euro per year in two years time, while the Belgians have parked Elisabeth's income. Mark my words. Floods of debate in TV shows with the one poll after the other. And the usual framing of "the millionaire Catharina-Amalia" against food banks et al ("Let them eat cake"). The Gilets Jaunes are not far away.
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  #51  
Old 04-21-2019, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Still in the same age group the popularity of the monarchy is in decline. For decades. Those mobiles, apps, Facebook and Instagram are there for years and years. So the fresh approach of the new royal couple (themselves popular anyway) had no effect in turning the tide for the institution.

There is no danger. But the downward trend certainly is there. When it jumps under 50% it gets a self-fulfilling force.

It also does not help that at the one side a prince is a speculant with hundreds of properties in Amsterdam, a city plagued with housing shortages. And it does not help that at the other side a princess sells Rubens, Lalique and others for big money. We can embrace ourselves when the Princess of Orange gets 1,6 million Euro per year in two years time, while the Belgians have parked Elisabeth's income. Mark my words. Floods of debate in TV shows with the one poll after the other. And the usual framing of "the millionaire Catharina-Amalia" against food banks et al ("Let them eat cake"). The Gilets Jaunes are not far away.
Ridiculous!!As are the gillets jaunes btw!!We had it all before with every Heir everywhere,people will get over it soon enough,they always do.Food banks or not,there have always been differences.C'est la vie!
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  #52  
Old 04-24-2019, 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by lucien View Post
Ridiculous!!As are the gillets jaunes btw!!We had it all before with every Heir everywhere,people will get over it soon enough,they always do.Food banks or not,there have always been differences.C'est la vie!

You have an optimistic nature. I wish I have the same.
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  #53  
Old 04-25-2019, 02:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
You have an optimistic nature. I wish I have the same.
I always have an optimistic and REALISTIC view.You should know after over a decade
...for crying out loud..And what's more:I am right and never go by the craze of the day,ever!

And btw,that age group is the first to take to the streets,starts flee markets,goes picknicking and joins other folks on a Ballen boat and takes care to make sure there's a traffic jam in the canals...and that's only in Amsterdam...let alone the rest of the country..They have to have something to complain before their grey cells sink in,or was that something else..
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  #54  
Old 04-27-2019, 07:12 AM
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The traditional annual enquête about the monarchy by the NOS (the Dutch equivalent of the BBC):

PERSONAL RAPPORT

The King maintains his all-time high: 7,6 out of 10.
Queen Máxima maintains her all-time high: 8 out of 10.
Princess Beatrix has a score of 7,4 (her highest was in her last year as Queen: 7,8)



SATISFACTION WITH THE KING

26% is very satisfied
47% is satisfied
18% is neither satisfied nor unsatisfied
5% is very unsatisfied
4% has no opinion
-----
100%



SHOULD THE MONARCHY BECOME STRICTLY CEREMONIAL ?

52% thinks it should stay as it is now
18% favours a ceremonial kingship
11% does not want a monarchy but a republic
19% has no opinion
-----
100%



SUPPORT FOR THE MONARCHY

18-34 years
57% for a monarchy
19% for a republic
24% no opinion
-----
100%

35-54 years
67% for a monarchy
14% for a republic
19% no opinion
-----
100%

55 years and older
79% for a monarchy
12% for a republic
9% has no opinion
-----
100%

All age groups
68% for a monarchy
15% for a republic
17% does not know
----
100%



DO YOU AGREE THE KING SHOULD EXPRESS HIS OPINION IN PUBLIC ?

36% thinks this is undesirable (up from 29%)
36% thinks this is more or less desirable (down from 37%)
16% thinks this is desirable (down from 20%)
12% has no opinion (down from 14%)
-----
100%



THE KING SHOULD READ THE ADDRESS FROM THE THRONE

51% thinks the King should read the Address indeed
15% does not care who reads the Address: the King or the Prime Minister
28% thinks the Prime Minister should read the Address
6% has no opinion
-----
100%



THE KING PLAYS NO ROLE ANYMORE IN THE FORMATION OF A CABINET

38% thinks the King should still play a role (down from 41%)
29% thinks it is correct that the King is out of this process (up from 24%)
25% thinks it is okay when the King has a role but also when he has not (same score as last year)
8% does not know (down from 9%)
----
100%



ACCOUNTABILITY OF THE COSTS OF THE ROYAL HOUSE

70% thinks it is important that the Royal House gives account about the expenses (same score as last year)
61% thinks there whould be more openness (down from 63%)



I AM CONCERNED ABOUT THE COSTS OF THE ROYAL HOUSE

29% is concerned about the costs of the Royal House (same score as last year)
28% is neutral about the costs of the Royal House (down from 29%)
37% is not at all concerned about the costs of the Royal House (same score as last year)
6% has no opinion (up from 5%)
-----
100%



HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THE SALE OF PRIVATE ART BY MEMBERS OF THE ROYAL FAMILY ?

37% thinks it is private and their own private business indeed
46% thinks it is private but should nevertheless be seen as cultural patrimonium worth to preserve
17% has no opinion
-----
100%


CLASSIFICATION OF THE KING

73% agrees with the classification "human" (up from 71%)
68% agrees with the classification "involved" (up from 65%)
65% agrees with the classification "empathic" (up from 58%)
53% agrees with the classification "kind" (up from 48%)
24% agrees with the classification "formalistic" (same score as last year)
22% agrees with the classification "impartial" (down from 24%)
5% agrees with the classification "distant" (down from 7%)



OPINION ON THE KING'S MEDIA APPEARANCE

57% agrees with the classification "involved" (up from 54%)
48% agrees with the classification "professional" (up from 43%)
28% agrees with the classification "formalistic" (up from 26%)
29% agrees with the classification "convincing" (down from 31%)
27% agrees with the classification "natural" (same score as last year)
8% agrees with the classification "unsecure" (down from 11%)
8% agrees with the classification "artificial" (same score as last year)
5% agrees with the classification "distant" (down from 6%)



MOODBOARD ON THE KING

"The Dutch appreciate the King because of his spontaneous nature and his accessibility, his interest in people and his feeling for keeping up with the times."

"What the Dutch do appreciate less in the King are the costs of the Royal House, his sometimes stiff appearance and his luxurious lifestyle."



DO YOU AGREE WITH THE FOLLOWING STATEMENTS ?

75% agrees that the King is a good ambassador for the country (up from 73%)
41% thinks it is important that the King shows himself in (social) media (same score as last year)
13% agrees that the King has not enough modernized the Royal House (down from 15%)
10% agrees that the King is far too close to the people (down from 12%)



HOW SATISFIED ARE YOU WITH QUEEN MÁXIMA AS CONSORT TO THE KING ?

37% is very satisfied (same score as last year)
42% is satisfied (up from 40%)
13% is neither satisfied nor unsatisfied (up from 12%)
1% is unsatisfied (down from 2%)
2% is very unsatisfied (up from 1%)
5% does not know (down from 7%)
-----
100%



DO YOU KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT QUEEN MÁXIMA AS CONSORT TO THE KING ?

19% knows very good what Queen Máxima does as Consort to the King (up from 18%)
57% has a global idea what Queen Máxima does as Consort to the King (down from 58%)
24% has no good idea what Queen Máxima does as Consort of the King (same score as last year)
-----
100%



WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ABOUT QUEEN MÁXIMA'S OTHER ACTIVITIES ?

Queen Máxima's activities in finance go well with her role as Consort to the King
55% agree
6% does not agree

I know well what Queen Máxima does for the United Nations
30% agree
24% does not agree

The inclusive finance portfolio is risky for someone who is under ministerial responsibility
13% agree
35% does not agree

As Consort to the King, Queen Máxima should not have other activities
7% agree
69% does not agree



DO YOU AGREE WITH THE KING'S WISH TO KEEP THE PRINCESSES OUT OF THE PUBLIC EYE ?

78% agree
11% does not agree
11% has no opinion
----
100%



DO YOU THINK PRINCESS CATHARINA-AMALIA SHOUD ALREADY DO PUBLIC DUTIES?

17% says yes
63% says no
20% has no opinion
-----
100%




Source: http://content10c2d.omroep.nl/urishi...nquete2019.pdf
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  #55  
Old 04-27-2019, 10:36 AM
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Thanks, Duc_et_pair

Well, this confirms my impression that the Dutch are rational and levelheaded people, who don't go over the top emotionally.

So by and large the Dutch are pretty pleased with the monarchy. The number of republicans are not much different from other monarchies. Around 15-25 %.
There is a good deal of satisfaction with the Regent Couple. And that's not bad for a new King!

People wish the King should keep his nose out of politics in general and don't be too controversial in his statements in particular. That's in line with other monarchies as well.

57 % being in favor of the monarchy among the 18-34 year olds isn't bad either.
It's at that age where you have strong political opinions that are often less nuanced than they become later on.
It's also at that age, where you are more busy studying, standing on your own legs, partying, trying out relationships, establishing a career a home and a family, so it's no particular wonder that 24 % are not that interested in the monarchy. (And probably many other things that you find time to concern yourself with past 34...)

All in all this is a pretty good survey.
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