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  #61  
Old 08-17-2019, 01:20 PM
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(to steer this thread a bit back to P.Christina herself)

https://blauwbloed.eo.nl/artikel/201...ina-1947-2019/
Foto collection of her life by dutch royalty tv show "Blauw bloed"

google translated
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  #62  
Old 08-17-2019, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Of course that was a socially desirable answer. What could he say? Yes, I wanted a title for myself and my children? Prince Henrik gave no socially desirable answers. And he was slashed in media.
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Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
There is a huge difference between a title of Count/Earl and the title King just because you married the Monarch. Not a relevant comparison IMO.
The latter has more rationale and precedent, but the remarks of Prince Henrik of Denmark, and the media reaction, reached far beyond a simple answer about a title.

In any case, I understand the point Duc_et_Pair was making was that Pieter's answer that he never requested a title does not necessarily imply that he would have rejected or resented a title had one been given.

And, to return to the topic of Princess Christina's life, I suppose the rumor(?) that Jorge Guillermo had hopes of a title becomes less believable considering his awareness that even Pieter van Vollenhoven, a working member of the royal house and the father of princes in line to the throne, did not receive one.

In light of his apparent interest in the privileges and benefits of the royal family, why did he not prevail on Princess Christina to request Parliament's authorization for the marriage, which would have allowed him to become a member of the Royal House?
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Old 08-17-2019, 01:34 PM
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Has the funeral date been announced?
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  #64  
Old 08-17-2019, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Of course that was a socially desirable answer. What could he say? Yes, I wanted a title for myself and my children? Prince Henrik gave no socially desirable answers. And he was slashed in media.
To put it in a broader picture: if he would have wanted to display "socially desirable" behaviour, then he would not have clashed throughout the years with several ministers in order to get his viewpoint across. He was the only one in the Royal Family who was opposed to the common viewpoints at the time. It gave trouble, so "socially desirable"?

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Has the funeral date been announced?
Not yet, and she will not be buried. She will be cremated.
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  #65  
Old 08-17-2019, 02:45 PM
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Flowers for Princess Christina at the entrance to the palace garden at the back of Noordeinde Palace.

https://www.anpfoto.nl/royalimages/s...ventid=5072580
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  #66  
Old 08-17-2019, 03:00 PM
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Wrong thread, but just to comment on Prince Henrik.
Friends and journalists (some where both) have come out now in the year after his passing and said that hearing about his illness makes his strange comments and strange behaviour more explainable.
The Henrik they knew would never have acted and said what in the way he did if he had been well. His biggest priority in life was his wife and he'd never do anything to hurt her, the monarchy or Denmark. Hearing this and knowing how dementia can creep up on you for many years before you and those around you realise that something is wrong it's not hard to think that, while he did have some points with his comments about his title, he'd never have become fixated on them as much as he did if he hadn't been ill.
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  #67  
Old 08-17-2019, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
In light of his apparent interest in the privileges and benefits of the royal family, why did he not prevail on Princess Christina to request Parliament's authorization for the marriage, which would have allowed him to become a member of the Royal House?
He probably understood (or Christina made it clear to him) that a marriage to a Roman Catholic man was not going to be approved. Irene's wedding was only about 10 years earlier and caused quite an uproar - both because of his claims to the Spanish throne and because he was Roman Catholic.
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  #68  
Old 08-17-2019, 03:13 PM
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Has the funeral date been announced?
No hint at all. But it will be a private ceremony at Noordeinde Palace in the Fagel’s Garden Pavilion allowing only family members and some close friends to pay their last respects. Her remains will be cremated in private too.


https://dutchreview.com/news/dutch/d...a-passes-away/
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  #69  
Old 08-17-2019, 03:35 PM
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Princess Christina is 'lying in state' in the Fagel Pavilion (just like her former brother-in-law prince Carlos Hugo) but that doesn't necessarily mean that the memorial service will be held in that same place.

The Princess Christina Concours shared that some of their laureates will make a musical contribution to the service. In April the princess had her final 'public appearance' at the finals of this yearly music competition that carries her name.
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  #70  
Old 08-17-2019, 05:12 PM
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Death of Princess Christina of the Netherlands: August 16, 2019

It seems it is a tragedy that Princess Christina’s visual impairment may have become a catalyst for a psuedo religious mania when Prince Bernhard introduced Princess Juliana to the faith healer Greet Hofmans, who came to have a great influence on Juliana, giving rise to the Dutch Royal Court crisis of 1948–1956. Since then it appears the Oranges stridently avoid manifestations of religious fervour despite Christina’s and Irene’s conversions to Roman Catholicism. It will be interesting to see if there are any RC trappings to Princess Christina’s funeral. There is talk of a humanist send off but I think that sort of thing might only be for birds as they say (or Princess Irene)
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  #71  
Old 08-17-2019, 06:03 PM
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I was reading Princess Christina's obituary in the New York Times today, and it included a link to a 1975 Times story about her engagement. That older story refers to a six-year-old boy who lived with Guillermo "for several years," and mentions that the child was no longer living with him and that no future plans had been made regarding the child.

It seemed like an odd thing to include in a news story about the engagement, so I'm curious what it was all about. Has anyone ever heard about it? What became of the child?

Here's the NYT obit: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/16/w...tina-dead.html

Here's the 1975 NYT story about the engagement: https://www.nytimes.com/1975/02/25/a...?module=inline
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  #72  
Old 08-17-2019, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by kalnel View Post
I was reading Princess Christina's obituary in the New York Times today, and it included a link to a 1975 Times story about her engagement. That older story refers to a six-year-old boy who lived with Guillermo "for several years," and mentions that the child was no longer living with him and that no future plans had been made regarding the child.

It seemed like an odd thing to include in a news story about the engagement, so I'm curious what it was all about. Has anyone ever heard about it? What became of the child?

Here's the NYT obit: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/16/w...tina-dead.html

Here's the 1975 NYT story about the engagement: https://www.nytimes.com/1975/02/25/a...?module=inline


How very peculiar since we haven’t heard anything about the child since or perhaps we have in some subsequent interview with Guillermo or the princess? The mention of the child is sits rather oddly in the engagement announcement interview :
“They were asked about a six‐year‐old boy from the school in Harlem who Mr. Guillermo had lived with for several years. Mr. Guillermo said that the boy was not living with him now and that although “we both want to continue our interest in his welfare,” no future plans had been made concerning the youngster.”
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  #73  
Old 08-17-2019, 06:51 PM
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It was said in the Dutch press that Jorge lived together with a man named Ned O'Gorman and together they took care of Perhaps mr. Gorman continued to take care of the child.
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  #74  
Old 08-17-2019, 09:50 PM
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First,the jerk had no title,second,there was vast physical abuse by that guy,not once but often.No,he went into a monastery hiding from the world and keeping himself closeted in more then one way by doing so,the cowardice lice,and afterwards moved back to the US where he came from and had lived with men instead of women before he met dear Christina through her work in NYC!
He is persona non grata here!
I'm pretty sure Cristina said "title," but perhaps I misundertood and what she meant and it was "position." Cristina would have most likely said that in Dutch and it was translated into either French or Spanish by one of the royal magazines. It could have been Hola or Point du Vue where I read it. It was a long time ago. Perhaps there was a mistake in the translation. However, I do remember the quote and she said that he was "insufferable," and that he only cared about his "position." In other words, he only cared about what his new found standing in society, since he met her.

By the way, I, also, heard that at work [the job that Prince Bernhard got him], they used to call him "the queen" because he was so arrogant that he acted more of a queen than a real queen!

Not surprised that he sort refuge in a monastary. I know that all of Holland hated him! I bet it might have even been dangerous for him to walk the streets alone!

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Originally Posted by Dalriada View Post
How very peculiar since we haven’t heard anything about the child since or perhaps we have in some subsequent interview with Guillermo or the princess? The mention of the child is sits rather oddly in the engagement announcement interview :
“They were asked about a six‐year‐old boy from the school in Harlem who Mr. Guillermo had lived with for several years. Mr. Guillermo said that the boy was not living with him now and that although “we both want to continue our interest in his welfare,” no future plans had been made concerning the youngster.”
Many years ago, I read that Jorge Guillermo and Mr. O'Gorman lived together and that they had adopted a little black boy. One of the rumors is that O'Gorman was Guillermo's lover. Considering how dastardly Guillermo turned out to be, I wouldn't be surprised if after he got on the gravy train with Princess Cristina, he just didn't care about the little boy anymore and put him up for adoption. I mean, he was no longer living with O'Gorman and considering how callous he turned out to be vis-a-vis poor Princesss Cristina, its not unlikely that this unfeeling man could have just put the child up for adoption.

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Curiously enough in 1975 Beatrix told her former nanny -as recorded by the late Willem Oltmans (!) who had the same former nanny- that Jorge Guillermo 'came from an excellent family' and was not a goldigger.



I am not quite sure in how far this was true by the time the two met. She was at least very independant. The princess left her parents when she was sixteen to live with a friend & her parents. For her studies she moved to Groningen and later to Montreal where she studied on the conservatorium and after that to New York. She lived abroad in anonimity and even had a job as a singing teacher and gave sound therapy to blind people. I suppose New York in the seventies was hardly a place where naivité could be sustained for a long time.
Jorge Guillermo did come from an excellent family, his father was a doctor of medicine and his mother was an ex-minister of education in Cuba and in exile, a Professor [Ph.D] of Spanish at a University in Maryland. His brother was a nuclear physicist. Jorge was the least accomplished in his family as he was only a school teacher. When he got married, it was said that he was writing a book on operas. I don't know if it ever got published, but after marriage, he did publish at least one book on Cuban architecture and another on Dutch architecture if I remember correctly.

Even though he did come from a solidly middle class and accomplished family, I do believe that he was a gold digger, simply because Cristina was so much weathier than he could ever hope to be.
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  #75  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:53 PM
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Many years ago, I read that Jorge Guillermo and Mr. O'Gorman lived together and that they had adopted a little black boy. One of the rumors is that O'Gorman was Guillermo's lover. Considering how dastardly Guillermo turned out to be, I wouldn't be surprised if after he got on the gravy train with Princess Cristina, he just didn't care about the little boy anymore and put him up for adoption. I mean, he was no longer living with O'Gorman and considering how callous he turned out to be vis-a-vis poor Princesss Cristina, its not unlikely that this unfeeling man could have just put the child up for adoption.
Ned worked in a school in Harlem. He took temporary custody of one of his students Ricky. This was when Jorge lived with him. He never adopted the boy but considered him a son. Ricky died of AIDS in 1996.
https://www.library.georgetown.edu/e...ugh-poets-lens
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  #76  
Old 08-18-2019, 02:19 AM
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Death of Princess Christina of the Netherlands: August 16, 2019

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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
Ned worked in a school in Harlem. He took temporary custody of one of his students Ricky. This was when Jorge lived with him. He never adopted the boy but considered him a son. Ricky died of AIDS in 1996.

https://www.library.georgetown.edu/e...ugh-poets-lens


This Ned O’Gorman seems to have been a genuinely kind and talented man according to this archive material at the Georgetown university library. Jorge by contrast flitted from one thing to another in his life. Perhaps the allure of a foreign princess must have been momentarily mesmerising for Jorge to drop all committments to everything else except himself.
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  #77  
Old 08-18-2019, 03:07 AM
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There is a huge difference between a title of Count/Earl and the title King just because you married the Monarch. Not a relevant comparison IMO.
That was not the context. Prince Henrik touched a big fat pink elephant in the porcelain cabinet, with the blindingly obvious question: why are male spouses treated differently than female spouses? In this era of Me Too, inclusivity and acting like differences in gender are an absolute no-no.

Let us turn it around: were Margriet and Christina two Princes, then their spouses, 100% in the same position as Pieter and Jorge, would have been princesses. Look at Pieter's very own four daughters-in-law.

It is socially desirable to play down and claim that a title means nothing at all. If Pieter had said the blindingly obvious question: hey, why are all my daughters-in-law Princesses and why am I - 52 years a member of the Royal House with a spotless parcours- still just Pieter?

When Jorge Guillermo or Pieter van Vollenhoven claim: pfffwt, a title? It is the same like: pfffwt, a knighthood or a honour? Nooooo, totally un-important! That is the convention. That is the socially desirable answer.

Of course it means nothing. Yeah. Sure. Unless they get a title, a knighthood or a honour.... We all know better.
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  #78  
Old 08-18-2019, 07:43 AM
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Was Princess Christina a grandmother ,her children live very much out of the spotlight.
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  #79  
Old 08-18-2019, 07:48 AM
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Her eldest son has two children, according to wiki.
The children and grandchildren are rarily in the news.
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Old 08-18-2019, 08:02 AM
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And her daughter has two sons according to Hein Bruins.
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