Crash: 7 Victims & Perpetrator Dead, 10 Wounded at Queen's Day 2009


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Yes,as did HM,Princess Margriet and Pieter van Vollenhoven.
They have visited 6 of the wounded this morning and this afternoon.Number 8 is still in critical
condition on a intensive care unit and can not be visited yet just as one other of the wounded.
The RF had especially invited family and loved ones to come to the hospitals.

HM visited wounded in the Isala Clinic in Zwolle,and talked to their families,Alexander and Máxima
visited wounded in the hospitals of the city of Tilburg,Utrecht and Amersfoort and talked with their
loved ones.Princess Margiet and Pieter van Vollenhoven visited the wounded at the Rijnstate hospital in Arnhem.


Het Koninklijk Huis
Thanks for the update Lucien, so nice of all the members of the RF going to visit with the victims and their families.
 
my sincere regrets for the loss of life and injuries to the oridinary citzens of Holland. There can be no precedent for this event eyeryone in every security sector can do their best but the idiot determined will do as fools do..... The public figures must either get on with their jobs or live in a gilded cage and be seen when permited to be seen and heard when it is deemed needful or get out and about and get on with their duties. Please let them get on with their duties otherwise many in history have died in vain. Again my condolences.
 
A sea of flowers at the Canadian War Memorial opposite the Needle.
The public is requested to put their flowers there as it would hamper traffic to put them at the Needle across the street.

PPE Agency

courtesy ppe

ANP Beeldbank

ANP Beeldbank

ANP Beeldbank

courtesy royalimages.

Prince Constantijn,who was in Amsterdam this evening to hand-out the prizes of the World Press Photo 2008,
(see his thread),said that Queensday should not be changed in any which way and should thus continue as we
are used to for decades.

HRH,and Princess Laurentien, were interviewed by NOS TV,they said all of the family have seen the tragedy
happen from the bus,and all are coping in their own way to get to terms.

Former PM Ruud Lubbers,Member of the Council of State,stated today that the Monarch has to remain visible.
Furthermore he stated that a change on the Throne isn't an issue right now and won't be for the next couple of years.

Ruud Lubbers is known to be close to HM also.
 
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My condoleances to all the victims of this fool crminal , who ruined what it must have been a great celebration for all Dutch people. My heart is with the Royal Family too. It must be very hard to cope with a so hard drama, that hit a pacific, good people as Dutch one is.Vanesa.
 
I only hope no more people will be dead.:sad:
 
HRH,and Princess Laurentien, were interviewed by NOS TV,they said all of the family have seen the tragedy
happen from the bus,and all are coping in their own way to get to terms.

Former PM Ruud Lubbers,Member of the Council of State,stated today that the Monarch has to remain visible.
Furthermore he stated that a change on the Throne isn't an issue right now and won't be for the next couple of years.

Ruud Lubbers is known to be close to HM also.

I do hope that the royal family members are able to eventually come to terms with this. I hope that they are able to find peace, whether it be through counseling or talking this over with each other. Events like this are traumatic, and everyone deals with them in a different way. I wish them peace.
 
I just think that the royal family should have step out of the bus and be along with the victims and give their support to them in the street near them, be more close to their people and not only wave on a bus. On a moment like this they should not only fell sorry, but also make something with "their own hands".That would make a lot of difference. Of course we have security problems but there were many many police officers there that could have escolt some members of the Royal family to the tragic place just for a while, that would make a big difference!
 
Are you serious?
You mean they should have stepped out of the bus directly after the accident?
No one knew if there was a bomb in the car in that moment.
There was chaos on the street.
People were in shock..
Furthermore: What should they have done? People need first help by doctors and not by Royals.
 
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they could not have done that, too dangerous. Besides it is not up to them I think at that moment, they are in the hands of the security service.

But I do find their visiting hospitals nothing out of the extra ordinary, just what you would expect them to do. Lots of posters are gushing about it but it would be really strange if they stayed away.
 
I just think that the royal family should have step out of the bus and be along with the victims and give their support to them in the street near them, be more close to their people and not only wave on a bus.

Sure...:nonono:
 
Are you serious?
People need first help by doctors .....

I'm quite sure she knows everything about that....

Prince Constantijn handed out prizes last night for the World Press Photo 2008.
This is what he had to say on the tragic events in Apeldoorn.
I haver posted it in his thread,but feel it also belongs here,as it expresses the
feelings of not only a first hand witness,but also one of the people targeted:

http://www.koninklijkhuis.nl/content.jsp?objectid=29122
 
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I just think that the royal family should have step out of the bus and be along with the victims and give their support to them in the street near them, be more close to their people and not only wave on a bus. On a moment like this they should not only fell sorry, but also make something with "their own hands".That would make a lot of difference. Of course we have security problems but there were many many police officers there that could have escolt some members of the Royal family to the tragic place just for a while, that would make a big difference!


Could you tell me how they should do this? Apart from that that they were in the hands of there security (like susan alicia said) and that there was chaos all around them (like Her_Majesty said), they also were totally shocked, don't know what to do. Do you assume that they had to go out of the bus, obviously shaking and thrilling as they were, to eliminate their emotions and to speak to the people who need medical help. They are human being from flesh and blood. They cannot switch their feeling on and off. They also needed to take a deep breath.
Seriously I don't understand you...:nonono:
 
Well because they are human being from flesh and blood I think that they maybe could have step out of the bus, of course that was a big security problem but they could have done it, that is just me thinking what they could have done... Of course I know that medical services where more needed at that time, but to me that image of them waving and them what happen to those people that were there just to see them again waving...I cannot explain better sorry:nonono:!
 
:previous:

When did they wave after the accident occured? Not once after the car smashed into the needle did a wave come from any member of the royal family. They were, like the rest of the spectators, in terrible shock. The only people which needed to be with the victims were the paramedics, and then later their families in hospital, not the royal family walking amongst the injured.
 
Sorry Biboquinhas, I really do not understand your comments. People where dying on the street!!! They were resuscitating some of the wounded. What could they have done???? In emergencies like this only medical people are needed.
You are absolutely not realistic.
I was watching "koninginnedag" on the T.V I saw it happening, It was unbelievable, and be reassured that the royals did not wave after this happened.
 
Apart from anything else it would have been 100% foolish for the Royal Family to have got out of the bus and wandered amongst the crowds. What if the driver wasn't the only one? What if that was a distraction and someone had a gun? It just wouldn't have been safe for Queen Beatrix and her family, or the spectators.
 
My deepest sympathies to the Dutch people.

Thank you Lucien for keeping this thread updated.

I must say, more shocking than any pictures or videos of the event was the Queen's speech.
I have never seen such a look of aggravation and sheer misery on the face of such a notoriously strong and fearless person. I don't even speak dutch but her sadness was overwhelming and I found the video very hard to watch.

It was truly, deeply heartbreaking and anyone (cough*Biboquinhas*cough) who question the deep shock and genuine concern the Royal family felt should watch it in a loop.
 
Truly I cannot see how having the Royal Family stepping out to "comfort" seriously injured people would have been beneficial. Their security details would have never permitted this to happen as it could endanger their lives and the public's safety. The paramedics who were were assisting the injured would have had their own actions distracted or impaired by the addition of other people on the scene.

IMO removing the Royal Family was the correct thing to do in that time.
 
they (I do not know which royals, I heard it on tv) waved to the people waiting at the Palace het Loo. There is a lane lined with trees that goes upto the palace in the park where very happy enthousiastic people were waiting for the bus and waving to them. Those people did not have an idea of what had just happened and out of courtecy to them, the royals waved back.

:previous:

When did they wave after the accident occured? Not once after the car smashed into the needle did a wave come from any member of the royal family. They were, like the rest of the spectators, in terrible shock. The only people which needed to be with the victims were the paramedics, and then later their families in hospital, not the royal family walking amongst the injured.
 
I just think that the royal family should have step out of the bus and be along with the victims and give their support to them in the street near them, be more close to their people and not only wave on a bus. On a moment like this they should not only fell sorry, but also make something with "their own hands".That would make a lot of difference. Of course we have security problems but there were many many police officers there that could have escolt some members of the Royal family to the tragic place just for a while, that would make a big difference!

Well because they are human being from flesh and blood I think that they maybe could have step out of the bus, of course that was a big security problem but they could have done it, that is just me thinking what they could have done... Of course I know that medical services where more needed at that time, but to me that image of them waving and them what happen to those people that were there just to see them again waving...I cannot explain better sorry:nonono:!


With all due respect . . .

I honestly do feel that I get the general idea of what it is that you're saying.

However . . .

In my humble opinion, there might and could possibly have been a larger catastrophe had the royals even attempted to get off the bus. And as others have stated as well, medical personnel --- who would CERTAINLY have been able to assist the victims more immediately, logically and readily than any of the royals --- were on the scene and attending to the needs of the injured. In my mind, had any of the royals been so foolish as to leave the bus to go to the injured, their presence would have been hindering what was logically the first piority then, which would have been to attend to the needs of the wounded.

And their presence there might also have caused more people to be injured and killed, as it was not known at the time whether or not this man had any accomplices in the crowd. And by then, anyway, he had also clearly shown that he did not care at all who else he injured in order to get to the royals.

Also --- and I'm choosing to be blunt, here --- if their security people were worth a damn, anyway, then they would have kept any of the royals --- even by using physical force, if need be --- AWAY from any areas at all where the wounded/dead were, or were being worked on or attended to, should any of them have been so foolish as to try to move off the bus and into those areas.

As a sort of paralell example . . .

When our President was sworn in earlier this year, he and his wife decided to leave the security of their car and walk for part of their parade route (at least a couple of times, as I recall now) to the reviewing stand.

Had anyone with an agenda chosen to try to injure them, believe me, regardless of whoever else might have happened to have gotten injured --- simply by being in the wrong place at the wrong time --- the Secret Service security detail surrounding them and in their car would've hustled them --- physically --- out of the line of fire, or whatever, into their car, and out of there.

IMMEDIATELY.

I feel that Queen Beatrix and the rest of the royals DID meet the standard of what it is that I believe you're referring to and suggesting.

The Queen took to the Dutch television airwaves to express her and her family's shock and dismay over what had happened. And NO one who actually witnessed that footage, I believe, can doubt for one second her honest anguish and grief over the events of the day. She --- as well as other royals --- visited the surviving victims in the hospital. I have no insight at all into the inner workings of their security detail, but I would tend to believe that security for all of those visits was much heavier than it would have been otherwise. Yet the royals chose to go ahead and personally visit the wounded after the incident. They could just as easily have chosen to stay inside the walls of Het Loo (that's the palace they were in, I believe?) and be updated via phone calls, etc., regarding the condition of the wounded. Or just spoken to them (were it permitted) via phone. As far as I know, they will also be in attendance at a formal service of mourning and remembrance, later on this week. And, from what I gathered, by reading this thread, the Queen has already stated that the Queensday celebrations will be continued in the future, as per usual.

Again, I personally feel they've met the standard of what I think you might be expecting from them, given who they are and the circumstances involved.

These are just my thoughts and observations regarding what you stated earlier.
 
Well because they are human being from flesh and blood I think that they maybe could have step out of the bus, of course that was a big security problem but they could have done it, that is just me thinking what they could have done... Of course I know that medical services where more needed at that time, but to me that image of them waving and them what happen to those people that were there just to see them again waving...I cannot explain better sorry:nonono:!

I think that if they were actually waving, it may have been something that they did out of shock. When people encounter traumatic events, they react differently, but it is very common to see people in shock exhibiting behavior as if the event didn't really happen at all. It is the brain's way of protecting the body. I didn't see anyone waving, but if they were, it is most likely done out of shock. Another explanation could be that they were waving at a child in the audience (there were a lot of children present that day). Not all children, particularly very young children, may not have been aware of what was happening, and if one of the royals waved, it could have been done for a child (which would make sense-we want to protect children and shield them from evil). I understand what you are saying, biboquinhas, but it really would have been next to impossible for the royals to get off that bus. They didn't know whether they were still in danger, and their security probably wanted to get them out of there as soon as humanly possible.
 
According to newspaper the 'Telegraaf' the main target of Karst T. were the prince of Orange and princess Maxima. Apparently he said so much to the security officers when they held his head in the car.

---

Former prime minister Ruud Lubbers (CDA) was in the political programme 'Buitenhof' yesterday and also said that Queen's Day should remain unaltered, though in the future (after an abdication) they might want to limit the amount of people that are participating.

---
Palace het Loo placed a mourning advertisement in the NRC Handelsblad (and maybe in other newspapers too) commemorating the 6 victims:

Wilfrido Plantijn,
John Veldhuizen,
Netty Martens,
José van den Berg,
Ad Teunissen,
Roel Nijenhuis.
 
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Abdication ..? Queen Beatix may abdicate ..? Did the accident prompt politicians to rehash the possibility of the abdication? If it did, it is a rather sad development.
 
According to newspaper the 'Telegraaf' the main target of Karst T. were the prince of Orange and princess Maxima. Apparently he said so much to the security officers when they held his head in the car.

---

Former prime minister Ruud Lubbers (CDA) was in the political programme 'Buitenhof' yesterday and also said that Queen's Day should remain unaltered, though in the future (after an abdication) they might want to limit the amount of people that are participating.

---
Palace het Loo placed a mourning advertisement in the NRC Handelsblad (and maybe in other newspapers too) commemorating the 6 victims:

Wilfrido Plantijn,
John Veldhuizen,
Netty Martens,
José van den Berg,
Ad Teunissen,
Roel Nijenhuis.
So his main target was not HM Queen Beatrix, but Prince W-A and Princess Maxima?
 
That is the conclusion of the newspaper indeed. When the security people asked him questions he repeatedly said the names of Willem-Alexander and Maxima:

Prinselijk paar doelwit - Binnenland - Telegraaf.nl [24 uur actueel, ook mobiel] [binnenland]
(in dutch)

-------------------------------------

From Dutchnews.nl:

Royal attack: investigation continues (update)

Monday 04 May 2009
The investigation into Karst Tates' motives for driving his black Suzuki car into the crowd watching the royal motorcade during the Queen's Day celebrations still remains unclear on Monday.
The newspapers are full of speculation about the reasons for the attack.
The Telegraaf reports that crown prince Willem-Alexander and princess Máxima were Tates' real target, quoting police sources. The paper says Tates spoke to military police staff after his car smashed into the obelisk close to the royal bus and repeated their names.
This statement is considered essential to the investigation, the paper says.

Read the entire article here.
 
An interesting article from the NRC Handelsblad:

Will Queen's Day ever be the same again?

Published: 1 May 2009 19:41 | Changed: 4 May 2009 10:48

By our news desk

To freely mingle with the people was the very essence of Queen's Day and the hallmark of the Dutch royal family. Did Karst T. change that forever?

Queen Beatrix, crown prince Willem-Alexander and princess Máxima will attend next Monday's national remembrance ceremony in Amsterdam as planned. The government information service RVD confirmed the royal presence - an annual tradition - after doubts had been cast following Thursday's deadly incident in Apeldoorn. Amsterdam authorities say they are studying the need for extra security measures.

Read the entire article here.
 
I'm quite sure she knows everything about that....

Prince Constantijn handed out prizes last night for the World Press Photo 2008.
This is what he had to say on the tragic events in Apeldoorn.
I haver posted it in his thread,but feel it also belongs here,as it expresses the
feelings of not only a first hand witness,but also one of the people targeted:

Het Koninklijk Huis

A clip of his interview with the NOS:

http://koningshuis.nos.nl/video/bek...e/constantijn-koninginnedag-met-open-karakter

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Animation of the route that Karst T. took:

http://koningshuis.nos.nl/video/bekijk/id/tcm:5-512554/title/animatie-van-het-drama-op-koninginnedag

------------------------------------------------------

Interview of Astrid Kersseboom with the prime minister (on April 30th):
http://koningshuis.nos.nl/video/bek...gesprek-astrid-kersseboom-met-balkenende-2009

------------------------------------------------------

Curious detail: various owners of black Suzuki Swift, like the one used in Apeldoorn, have reported vandalism to their cars. Sometimes people even show their fists to the drivers in anger... (as reported in the Telegraaf on sunday).
 
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