The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > British Royals > Current Events Archive

Join The Royal Forums Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #701  
Old 06-30-2012, 05:35 PM
miche's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: N/A, United States
Posts: 733
They did that last year but everyone was more interested in talking about how depressing Catherine dress was and William dancing. Why are people still talking about this like she's going to do it when Lisa Maxwell said Catherine never said she would do it on TV?
__________________

  #702  
Old 06-30-2012, 06:14 PM
EIIR's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Somewhere, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,658
Inviting homeless people to 'camp out' at Buckingham Palace would be even more of a stunt than Will and Kate sleeping rough. I can just see the headlines now, 'Royals invite homeless to sleep in BP garden and turf them all out again the next morning'.

My mum worked for 30 years in social housing and she said the causes of homelessness tend to be addiction to alcohol and/or drugs, and teenage kids running away from home. She told me that the homeless in our area were well known to the local housing association and that at some point each of them have been provided with social housing. More often than not however, the formerly homeless would leave the housing, because they don't want to settle in one place or have become so used to sleeping rough that they go back to it.

Homelessness will never be eradicated until we address the problems of addiction and family breakdown. The royals support lots of organisations who try and break this cycle, and it was so good to see that Kate chose an addiction charity as one of her first patronages.
__________________

  #703  
Old 06-30-2012, 06:42 PM
ghost_night554's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 3,785
I'm just gonna throw in my two cents in here. Normally I'm one who keeps hush with things like these but I really don't like when people say it's a PR stunt. Personally from what I've seen in the last few years from William Kate and Harry is that they do genuinely care about their charities and do want to try and make a difference in whatever way they can. Obviously they alone cannot fix all these problems but I do feel that they pull from these experiences such as sleeping on the streets and I never truly saw it as a PR stunt nor did I find it stupid. It's like if they go out there sleep on the street it's a PR stunt if they don't and do other types of events for the charities people(not necessarily here just in general)then accuse them of not caring enough, it's like how can they win they just can't really.
  #704  
Old 06-30-2012, 07:56 PM
HRHHermione's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Boston, United States
Posts: 2,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by EIIR View Post
Homelessness will never be eradicated until we address the problems of addiction and family breakdown. The royals support lots of organisations who try and break this cycle, and it was so good to see that Kate chose an addiction charity as one of her first patronages.
Which is why I was so happy to see the Duchess choose Action on Addiction as one of her charities. She seems to understand why it's an important issue.
  #705  
Old 06-30-2012, 08:39 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles CA, United States
Posts: 1,082
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost_night554 View Post
I'm just gonna throw in my two cents in here. Normally I'm one who keeps hush with things like these but I really don't like when people say it's a PR stunt. Personally from what I've seen in the last few years from William Kate and Harry is that they do genuinely care about their charities and do want to try and make a difference in whatever way they can. Obviously they alone cannot fix all these problems but I do feel that they pull from these experiences such as sleeping on the streets and I never truly saw it as a PR stunt nor did I find it stupid. It's like if they go out there sleep on the street it's a PR stunt if they don't and do other types of events for the charities people(not necessarily here just in general)then accuse them of not caring enough, it's like how can they win they just can't really.
It is a PR stunt because that's what William learned when he was growing up and that is what I have seen him reach for. In no way can someone at their social/wealth rank spend such a night without considerable risk to themselves - and great expense to others - hence it will not really be what a homeless person experiences. No more than William's going to an amusement park when he was young being photographed by a phalanx of photographers - was 'normal'.

Basically, it will be like camping out except on some dirty pavement that's been spat upon and maybe urinated on under a bridge, in a park on a park bench, again where animals have likely done their business - with bodyguards and police around. Kate can just use her imagination. There is far more than addiction and runaways - there are seriously mentally ill people - and the reality is cold, wet, dirty, smelly, hand-to-mouth, day-in-day-out - dealing with hostile police, property owners and everyday pedestrians, not to mention other homeless people that can be dangerous. I am admittedly painting the harshest picture - there is another side to it - which one night on a heating grate will not appraise one of.

Get caught in an airport during some emergency and you'll get the drift of what it's like to not have access to a bed, a toilet, a proper shower, food, water., etc.

It's a political statement if the homeless are allowed on the palace grounds? Interesting idea. The system isn't working - bare bald fact of it. There is no excuse that some of our number are forced out onto the streets to live, to panhandle, to beg. As long as we are in societies whose rationales are based on ownership - we will have the dispossessed - and the conundrum of what to do with them when they no longer are of use to anyone.

The questions are large, indeed, that William - and Kate - are purported to be interested in. If I see him - them - honestly and courageously really studying the issues - maybe attending some post graduate courses in economics, sociology and political theory - really looking at how things work - I might start being impressed with his - their - sincerity. But popping down to the homeless shelter for a photo-op? Nope, doesn't do it.
  #706  
Old 06-30-2012, 08:55 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger View Post
It's a political statement if the homeless are allowed on the palace grounds? Interesting idea. .
Very much a political statement. The palaces are the property of the state. For the monarchy to open up the property to the homeless (which would incude alcoholics, drug addicts, the mentally ill etc) would put those properties and their occupants (not only royals) at risk but would also be seen as interferring in something that is a political as well as a social issue. It would look like the monarchy would be highlighting what some say are failed government policies. Politics is something a constitutional monarch stays away from.

What would happen if these homeless people decided they didn't want to leave the next day? It would be like the Occupied Movement last fall, hard to get rid of and embaressing to everyone.
  #707  
Old 06-30-2012, 09:49 PM
Queen Penelope's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Camrose, Canada
Posts: 712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger

It is a PR stunt because that's what William learned when he was growing up and that is what I have seen him reach for. In no way can someone at their social/wealth rank spend such a night without considerable risk to themselves - and great expense to others - hence it will not really be what a homeless person experiences. No more than William's going to an amusement park when he was young being photographed by a phalanx of photographers - was 'normal'.

Basically, it will be like camping out except on some dirty pavement that's been spat upon and maybe urinated on under a bridge, in a park on a park bench, again where animals have likely done their business - with bodyguards and police around. Kate can just use her imagination. There is far more than addiction and runaways - there are seriously mentally ill people - and the reality is cold, wet, dirty, smelly, hand-to-mouth, day-in-day-out - dealing with hostile police, property owners and everyday pedestrians, not to mention other homeless people that can be dangerous. I am admittedly painting the harshest picture - there is another side to it - which one night on a heating grate will not appraise one of.

Get caught in an airport during some emergency and you'll get the drift of what it's like to not have access to a bed, a toilet, a proper shower, food, water., etc.

It's a political statement if the homeless are allowed on the palace grounds? Interesting idea. The system isn't working - bare bald fact of it. There is no excuse that some of our number are forced out onto the streets to live, to panhandle, to beg. As long as we are in societies whose rationales are based on ownership - we will have the dispossessed - and the conundrum of what to do with them when they no longer are of use to anyone.

The questions are large, indeed, that William - and Kate - are purported to be interested in. If I see him - them - honestly and courageously really studying the issues - maybe attending some post graduate courses in economics, sociology and political theory - really looking at how things work - I might start being impressed with his - their - sincerity. But popping down to the homeless shelter for a photo-op? Nope, doesn't do it.
In regards to William sleeping rough for a night, IMO I think most saw that for what it was - an opportunity for him to get an idea of what it's like to sleep on the street like a homeless person, not necessarily to recreate the homeless experience. He did this to raise awareness for homelessness, and that, to me, is all he needs to do. I don't think he or Kate need to take any post grad courses or anything of the like to prove sincerity. Nice if they would, but I probably wouldn't give much thought to it even if they did. To me, they have loads of requests for patronages and demands on their time (William more so), and the fact that they have selected these charities (after what I can only guess would have been some careful deliberation) is enough for me. I don't expect them to know everything. I just expect them to surround themselves with good liasons within the charities to help them know what they need to know. If the charities are happy with their patronage, there's not much more to be asked of them.
  #708  
Old 06-30-2012, 09:55 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,272
Based on the number of posts on this topic it would seem that just the idea of Catherine or William sleeping on the streets raised the profile of the homeless issue. Be honest with yourselves, before this topic came up how much time did you spend even thinking about the homeless or possible solutions/aid for the homeless?
  #709  
Old 06-30-2012, 10:25 PM
LadyGabrielle's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: kapaa, United States
Posts: 1,190
Touche. You hit that right on the head. I suppose this subject has caused a stir. My apologies for that. I was just trying out to figure a way for the BRF to be more involved. Making appearances and sleeping with the homeless for a night is not the answer. Now working in a shelter, feeding the homeless a few days a week or spending time talking with them, thats different. I agree that would probably be better than having them camp out on the palace lawns. I just wish more could be done for these people in need. Of course my mother ( rest her soul ) would tell me that it is up to all of us to help when we can by giving what we can.
  #710  
Old 06-30-2012, 10:36 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Green Bay, United States
Posts: 562
Unfortunately, a certain percent of the homeless do not want to be helped, or are too memtally ill to be helped. We have a very good homeless shelter in our town, no one is turned away. During the day they try helping with job training, budgeting, etc. but some refuse to try. Some do get into permanent housing, but year to year the numbers do not decline. Our town is only 125,000 and if we are unable to make progress, I can't imagine the mountain in a large city like, London, New York, Los Angeles.
  #711  
Old 06-30-2012, 10:45 PM
HRHHermione's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Boston, United States
Posts: 2,614
Look, you also have to consider what their roles are and how they can do the most good. Think about it- when William does things for Centrepoint, he helps bring in a TON of donations, which go towards expanding services.

But if he started working the lines at the food kitchen? It would actually interrupt services. The hoard of photographers would probably get out of control, and it could seriously disturb and bother some people who already have fragile mental health. Plus, it could get exploitative very quickly- having pictures of the people there for services broadcasted day after day.

William and Kate (and the rest of the Royal Family) have very unique roles. I think they try to do good with them, but they have to be realistic about what those roles are for them to be able to accomplish anything.
  #712  
Old 06-30-2012, 11:33 PM
soapstar's Avatar
Super Moderator
Picture of the Week Coordinator
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hermosa Beach, United States
Posts: 3,299
The Palace has denied the rumors about Kate sleeping on the streets with the homeless.

Quote:
"There are no plans for the Duchess to sleep out for Centrepoint," the spokesperson tells PEOPLE. "She doesn't have any official role with Centrepoint, but will obviously continue to support the Duke in his patronage of the charity.
http://www.people.com/people/package...608016,00.html

Also, Lisa Maxwell (the source for the original rumor) was on some U.K. talk show and reiterated that there were no plans for Kate to do it. She said the two of them were discussing William's participation and when she asked Kate about doing it too, Kate said, "Well, maybe".
  #713  
Old 06-30-2012, 11:43 PM
ghost_night554's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 3,785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Penelope View Post
In regards to William sleeping rough for a night, IMO I think most saw that for what it was - an opportunity for him to get an idea of what it's like to sleep on the street like a homeless person, not necessarily to recreate the homeless experience. He did this to raise awareness for homelessness, and that, to me, is all he needs to do. I don't think he or Kate need to take any post grad courses or anything of the like to prove sincerity. Nice if they would, but I probably wouldn't give much thought to it even if they did. To me, they have loads of requests for patronages and demands on their time (William more so), and the fact that they have selected these charities (after what I can only guess would have been some careful deliberation) is enough for me. I don't expect them to know everything. I just expect them to surround themselves with good liasons within the charities to help them know what they need to know. If the charities are happy with their patronage, there's not much more to be asked of them.
This exactly was the point I was trying to convey with my post. I totally agree with your post Queen Penelope.
  #714  
Old 06-30-2012, 11:53 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles CA, United States
Posts: 1,082
Quote:
Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Be honest with yourselves, before this topic came up how much time did you spend even thinking about the homeless or possible solutions/aid for the homeless?
Presumptuous. My experience is daily and very much am involved in looking at the solutions. That's why the dilettantes annoy me - a lot. I abhor 'celebrity' that uses the poor and destitute to raise their 'empathic' and 'involved' meter.
  #715  
Old 07-01-2012, 12:07 AM
ghost_night554's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 3,785
Well then what William and Kate are not sincere? I suppose if you see it that way with William and Kate then you'd have to apply it to all other members of the royal family both past and present.
  #716  
Old 07-01-2012, 01:00 AM
HRHHermione's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Boston, United States
Posts: 2,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger View Post
Presumptuous. My experience is daily and very much am involved in looking at the solutions. That's why the dilettantes annoy me - a lot. I abhor 'celebrity' that uses the poor and destitute to raise their 'empathic' and 'involved' meter.
And I would normally agree, but the Royal Family aren't celebrities- the Queen and her family are national symbols. Their primary job is to be empathic and involved and to represent all citizens, including those who are marginalized.

You mention graduate courses in social work, etc... which is the right background for someone who is going to administer programs and work in the trenches. That's not what William and Kate are ever going to do- moreover, it's not what they CAN do. Their job is to represent all, and that means being able to cover many, many organizations.

They can't do that if they work on any one cause exclusively, as you seem to suggest they should.
  #717  
Old 07-01-2012, 01:04 AM
Daria_S's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: My own head, United States
Posts: 8,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
But then how do you get them to leave?
Remember Grammercy Park?

If you call the police, it looks like you are strong-arming poor desperate people.
If you don't, think of the mess.

The RF would be smart not to try this, imo. It's a lose-lose situation.
Agree completely. It'll always be a catch twenty-two for these people. They do something, they get criticized, they don't do something, they get criticized as well. Their best bet is to follow their conscience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyGabrielle View Post
Well Im not saying to do it everyday. Im saying maybe do this once a week. Let the homeless know that they have a comfortable place on the palace lawns in a designated area to go to where there will be good food and maybe comfortable cots to sleep on. There could be homeless volunteers who would be there to make sure no one wanders or gets in trouble. Rope an area off that is far enough away from the palace. You cant tell me there isnt enough room on the palace grounds to do this once a week. To me it would feel more sincere if it was done on a consistant basis. Anyone can sleep on the streets once. I think if the people knew this would be available to them on a weekly basis there would be less of a chance they would get out of hand. I dont know. Its just a thought. I just think it would be a great move on the part of the BRF who live in a palace where they are separated from the real world. They have so much and the place is so huge I dont see why they couldnt do this just once a week. Just my opinion.
This would be a bad move politically, not to mention, it would more than likely hurt tourism. Let's face it, the Royal residences are tourist attractions. Even if people can't go inside or on the grounds of the said residences (unless it's the time of year when it's open to the public), they still may want to pass by and see what it looks like. If a word gets out that there are homeless people on the palace grounds, not too many people would want to go near there. I know that many tourists who come to visit New York City choose not to take the metro, because of the fact that there are so many homeless people using the stations as a shelter. Those of us who live here know it's not the case, but tourists go by what they hear on the news or see on TV. It gives certain places and areas a bad vibe, and I don't think UK would want that. As to the issue of homelessness in general, it happens everywhere; even countries that have more socialist form of government/social programs. I lived in USSR for the first ten years of my life, and was told how lucky I was because I was living in a country where everyone had enough to eat and a place live; we were all equal, and no one was rich or poor. Yeah, all one had to do was step into a bar, and they'd see plenty of people addicted to alcohol or drugs that had nowhere to go. Getting rid of monarchy or changing the system is not going to solve this type of problem, but educating people on the evils of addiction and alcoholism at an early age very well might. That's all I'm going to say on the issue, because otherwise it'll get political, and my views may tick quite a few people off (let's just say I'm not a fan of what I had to live with growing up).

I don't think William and Catherine are doing any of their charity work to get attention. If they wanted attention, they'd be going to glamourous events several times a week, and living it up in London, but instead, they're leading a quite and relatively modest life in Wales, and doing what they can to help those who are less fortunate. They cannot go and work at a soup kitchen or a homeless shelter, because that will definitely attract photographers, and in my opinion, they won't like that (and it won't be fair to those who are using the shelter to get help). I personally give them lots of props for really getting involved with their charities, and making themselves known not just as patrons who come once in a while and hand a check, but real supporters that are not afraid to get their hands dirty.
__________________
"My guiding principles in life are to be honest, genuine, thoughtful and caring".
~Prince William~


I'm not obsessed with royalty...I just think intensely about it.
  #718  
Old 07-01-2012, 01:48 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles CA, United States
Posts: 1,082
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost_night554 View Post
Well then what William and Kate are not sincere? I suppose if you see it that way with William and Kate then you'd have to apply it to all other members of the royal family both past and present.
No - I wouldn't say that. HRHHermione gave some clarity and some additional context regarding how the BRF is viewed in their own domain - which remains an on-going learning for me. I have a particularly high regard for the work Prince Charles has done and continues to do. Significant impact at the level he is able to work.

I have no wish to see celebrities or the flashy crowd trailing cameras coming into the hard-luck world - when it happens its excruciating. If you understand why there is a hard-luck world one would never-ever do that - especially to children. Never to children.

That said I know well-known people that in the anonymity of their private lives, in the silence and the dark of a profound personal commitment, when and where no one is aware - and will never be aware - do roll up their sleeves and work 'in the trenches' when they can - as well as give the big check. Everyone should - and if you do you will realize that it's not about the big checks. They are bandaids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
And I would normally agree, but the Royal Family aren't celebrities - the Queen and her family are national symbols. Their primary job is to be empathic and involved and to represent all citizens, including those who are marginalized.

You mention graduate courses in social work, etc... which is the right background for someone who is going to administer programs and work in the trenches. That's not what William and Kate are ever going to do- moreover, it's not what they CAN do. Their job is to represent all, and that means being able to cover many, many organizations.

They can't do that if they work on any one cause exclusively, as you seem to suggest they should.
Understood. I stand corrected - and am better informed.

However, I will say that certain members of the BRF function as though they see themselves as celebrities. In fairness, its not their fault. The issue is a lot larger and too complex - and off-topic.

Also, I wasn't recommending courses in social work - but in sociology - even Cultural Anthropology. Certainly economics. Makes sense to me. But then I am not British and while I have an interest in all things royal I have a very clear view of every human being being life-long learners. Royalty does have social entre - to use that in significant ways as with the United Nations - as an example - requires knowledge of what you speak, background experience, work in the field. That's what makes for credibility.

I do think they are sincere - or I think Kate is in her heart - though she has a hard time 'selling' her comfort level with it all right now imo. For some reason, and I can't say exactly why, William does not strike me as sincere.

I would counsel them not to presume to come to a foreign country that has no formal ties to them as future monarchs and decide to do a 'poverty tour'. I won't go on about it only to say that that little bit of grandstanding they engaged in last year in the US to prop up William's 'brand' had me steamed. Always will.
  #719  
Old 07-01-2012, 09:28 AM
Osipi's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 6,652
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
What would be a better idea for William and Catherine would be to create initiatives for homeless people to get off the streets, find job and lives for themselves with the help of the government.
Isn't this what Centrepoint does? Perhaps with William and Kate being out there for a night, it spreads the word that Centrepoint is there and available for those that need their services. As much as it seems that in doing this, they'd draw attention to Centrepoint for the public and build up donations, the other side of the coin is actually going out there on the streets and talking with those people that perhaps don't have access to the internet, the papers and media and let them know what is available.

I'm trying hard to remember just which documentary it was that I saw not too long ago (perhaps leading up to the Jubilee Thames Pageant) where William went to Africa for a week for his Tusk foundation and with him he took three teens from Centrepoint.

The main point to me is that when these royals get involved in something they believe in, they really do get involved hands on and its kind of laying the old adage "cutting ribbons and opening hospitals" stereotype of royal patronage to rest.
__________________
“When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy’. They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life.”
― John Lennon
  #720  
Old 07-01-2012, 11:45 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Philadelphia, United States
Posts: 3,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger View Post

The system isn't working - bare bald fact of it. There is no excuse that some of our number are forced out onto the streets to live, to panhandle, to beg. As long as we are in societies whose rationales are based on ownership - we will have the dispossessed - and the conundrum of what to do with them when they no longer are of use to anyone.

Well, what can you do?
There is nothing anyone can do!

It's not a question of making excuses; it's a grim fact of life on the streets.

So many people think if you can get the homeless into housing and get them jobs, the problem will be solved.
BUT- they can't hold jobs. Many can't even function at all; they are hardcore addicts and/or mentally ill.

It's against the law to institutionalize anyone against his will, or to force them to take medication.

Locally we have people who go out in vans on cold nights to try to persuade the homeless to go to shelters. Mostly they refuse, and they can't be forced.
So then what?
__________________

Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Duchess of Cambridge Current Events 4: January 2014-February 2015 Zonk Current Events Archive 599 01-31-2015 10:01 PM
The Duchess of Cambridge Current Events 3: January-December 2013 Zonk Current Events Archive 1034 01-01-2014 11:44 AM




Popular Tags
ascot 2016 best gown best gown september 2016 best hat best outfit catherine middleton style coup d'etat crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mary fashion crown princess mette-marit current events current events thread duchess of cambridge e-mail farah diba fashion and style fashion poll grand duke jean greece infanta elena kate middleton king abdullah ii king felipe king felipe vi king willem-alexander member introduction monarchy new zealand nobel gala norway november 2016 october 2016 opening of parliament picture of the week prince bernhard prince charles princess charlotte of cambridge princess marie princess mary princess mary daytime fashion princess mary fashion princess mary hats queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen letizia style queen mathilde queen mathildes outfits queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima cocktail dresses queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania royal fashion september 2016 state visit state visit to denmark succession sweden the duchess of cambridge the duchess of cambridge casual wear the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge fashion the duchess of cambridge hats the duchess of cornwall eveningwear


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:30 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016
Jelsoft Enterprises