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  #1041  
Old 04-17-2013, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
Well I think it's a typical bitchy comment from the DM. I don't suppose that they wrote a similar comment to the picture of the Queen smiling and laughing with the Thatchers on the Steps of St Paul's ; or the smiles and laughing of other guests including senior politicians.

This is a form of bullying, just picking on one guest who's behaviour was in line with other guests.

Kicking Sarah should not be a hobby for a national newspaper or for anyone else for that matter.
That's what has become, a hobby for the media and others. Sarah was just smiling and greeting members of the congregation like everybody else.
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  #1042  
Old 04-17-2013, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
Well I think it's a typical bitchy comment from the DM. I don't suppose that they wrote a similar comment to the picture of the Queen smiling and laughing with the Thatchers on the Steps of St Paul's ; or the smiles and laughing of other guests including senior politicians.

This is a form of bullying, just picking on one guest who's behaviour was in line with other guests.

Kicking Sarah should not be a hobby for a national newspaper or for anyone else for that matter.
I could not agree more. It's become very clear that some people genuinely enjoy disparaging Sarah, even over incredibly harmless actions. I find myself feeling a bit sorry for her.
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  #1043  
Old 04-17-2013, 08:29 PM
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is si nice see sarah in an oficial event. she do some wrong things in the past but she stil is the mother of two princesses. I am happy for her-
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  #1044  
Old 04-17-2013, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
Well I think it's a typical bitchy comment from the DM. I don't suppose that they wrote a similar comment to the picture of the Queen smiling and laughing with the Thatchers on the Steps of St Paul's ; or the smiles and laughing of other guests including senior politicians.

This is a form of bullying, just picking on one guest who's behaviour was in line with other guests.

Kicking Sarah should not be a hobby for a national newspaper or for anyone else for that matter.
Agree, cepe. There were lots of smiles at the service. I noticed the Cheneys seemed ebullient too. It's sort of understandable - she was a well respected lady who led a full life.
  #1045  
Old 04-17-2013, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
That's what has become, a hobby for the media and others. Sarah was just smiling and greeting members of the congregation like everybody else.
To me it all depends on how WIDE the smile is. And Sarah's smile was a bit too wide for my personal taste. I would interpret a smaller greeting smile as correct for a funeral which, again for me, is not a place to express joy when meeting old acquaintances or enjoying being back in the public light not too far from your ex-mother in law the Queen.
  #1046  
Old 04-17-2013, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Princess BellyFlop View Post
To me it all depends on how WIDE the smile is. And Sarah's smile was a bit too wide for my personal taste. I would interpret a smaller greeting smile as correct for a funeral which, again for me, is not a place to express joy when meeting old acquaintances or enjoying being back in the public light not too far from your ex-mother in law the Queen.
Oh dear god.

Sure, let's get out our tape measures and come up with an acceptable etiquette standard. "Smiles may not exceed this width"
  #1047  
Old 04-17-2013, 09:15 PM
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I get the idea that different sizes of smiles (and different smiles in general) are appropriate for different occasions and moments. However without context - literal lines of "this is what was said, this is who Sarah was greeting, this is their expression) we have no grounds to say what is and isn't appropriate. This just seems like another attempt to attack Sarah.

I know, personally, at the last funeral I remember laughing really hard at one moment, despite the fact that I was bawling throughout it. I wasn't the only one to laugh at that moment either, in the context it was appropriate.
  #1048  
Old 04-17-2013, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Ish View Post
I get the idea that different sizes of smiles (and different smiles in general) are appropriate for different occasions and moments. However without context - literal lines of "this is what was said, this is who Sarah was greeting, this is their expression) we have no grounds to say what is and isn't appropriate. This just seems like another attempt to attack Sarah.

I know, personally, at the last funeral I remember laughing really hard at one moment, despite the fact that I was bawling throughout it. I wasn't the only one to laugh at that moment either, in the context it was appropriate.
I agree Ish. And I thought this particular service seemed to have a lot of people who were glad to see and greet one another. I personally think the smiles were way less offensive than the cameras were. Just my opinion though.
  #1049  
Old 04-18-2013, 05:09 AM
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I think you need to look again - she is in the second/third row on the family side. IF you want to consider "pecking order" (why?) then that's pretty good.

She was sitting beside Lord Bell, Baroness Thatcher's spokesman (person who broke the news of her death) and close friend.
I suspect that she simply came two hours before the service and took the best possible place.
When your seat is reserved, you don't wait two hours in a church.
  #1050  
Old 04-18-2013, 05:21 AM
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I suspect that she simply came two hours before the service and took the best possible place.
When your seat is reserved, you don't wait two hours in a church.
All guests were asked to be in their places by 10:00. If they had all turned up at 10:00 then they would not have followed the instruction. The doors opened at 09:00 and there were already guests waiting to get in - and Sarah was not one of them.

2,300 people to be in place and ready by exactly 11:00 - this is a logistical question and as usual the British achieved this by individuals such as the Duchess of York doing what they were asked.

Seats were reserved with names.
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  #1051  
Old 04-18-2013, 05:23 AM
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At these large events two things happen:

1. people do have set seats.
2. people have a window in which to arrive to facilitate seating and to cater for protocol.

Sarah thus arrived during the window in which she was asked to arrive and went to the seat she was allocated - in the second row behind the family.
  #1052  
Old 04-18-2013, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
At these large events two things happen:

1. people do have set seats.
2. people have a window in which to arrive to facilitate seating and to cater for protocol.

Sarah thus arrived during the window in which she was asked to arrive and went to the seat she was allocated - in the second row behind the family.
Yup. That was where she was supposed to sit.

Some people may need to just accept that Sarah isn't quite the pariah the media paints her as- she was always well-liked by those who knew her and I'm sure she still maintains a lot of the same friendships she had when she was a member of the royal family.
  #1053  
Old 04-18-2013, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
At these large events two things happen:

1. people do have set seats.
2. people have a window in which to arrive to facilitate seating and to cater for protocol.
I know this general rules. But one more rule exists: 'less important' people arrive first, 'more important' (better seats) arrive later, the queen arrives latest.
  #1054  
Old 04-18-2013, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Spheno View Post
I know this general rules. But one more rule exists: 'less important' people arrive first, 'more important' (better seats) arrive later, the queen arrives latest.
What do you class as 'less important people'? Sarah was sat in VIP Reserved seating as the live news report stated directly behind The Thatcher Family. Reserved seating went 10+ rows back behind The Thatcher Family and The Queen. Sarah arrived at 9:15am along with several other hundred guests. There were over 2,000 people in St Paul's Cathedral yesterday and like Cepe said, if they all arrived at 10am, it would have been chaos. Reserved seating or not.

The Queen arrived last, because she is The Queen, she arrived 5 minutes prior to Maggie arriving.
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  #1055  
Old 04-18-2013, 07:16 AM
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With reference to the debate about Sarah smiling...

I agree with other comments that this is typical tabloid bullying of Sarah, of the kind that she has had to put up with for many years. She could have spent hours looking glum, but the newspapers will pick through tons of photos to find the "smiling" ones that can fit their own agenda of criticising her.

And as for the smile being too wide... I've often noticed when watching TV footage of Sarah that her facial expressions are naturally very expressive - the facial muscles tend to move a lot as she speaks or gestures. So when you take a still photo, the expression often seems somewhat exagerated. (I think the same is true of Beatrice, which makes it easy for photographers to select wide-eyed, open-mouthed expressions if they want her to look bad!)

And thirdly, as others have pointed out, the funeral of someone who lived a long and full life has elements of celebration of that person's life, which was certainly the case yesterday.

Personally, I'm really happy for Sarah that she had this chance to say goodbye to someone she admired and respected, and also that she was able to be part of an important day in the life of the nation. It hurt her to be excluded from the wedding, and I'm so glad that wasn't the case yesterday.
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  #1056  
Old 04-18-2013, 07:27 AM
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Oh dear god.

Sure, let's get out our tape measures and come up with an acceptable etiquette standard. "Smiles may not exceed this width"
Great idea! Someone should invent a "smiler" that can be discreetly inserted in mouth to measure said smile.
  #1057  
Old 04-18-2013, 07:33 AM
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I didnt find Sarh's smiles or "grins' any different from those of all others, while greeting each other.
See in my (Indian) culture, we are supposed to be as serious and mournful as possible at funerals, not even thinking of producing something that looks like a smile.
But in Diana's funeral (my first Western one), I saw Queen smiling when greeted by Dean of W'minster, I was surprised. But then slowly I understood, that it is OK to smile, while greeting at funerals, as they are not actual deaths..
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  #1058  
Old 04-18-2013, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Spheno View Post
I know this general rules. But one more rule exists: 'less important' people arrive first, 'more important' (better seats) arrive later, the queen arrives latest.

So the second row - right behind the mourning family - isn't one of the 'better seats' while the rows behind the second row are 'better seats' because the people who were seated there arrived later than Sarah according to you. To me the further forward you are the better seated you are.

However you are in fact incorrect - it is easier to get over 2000 people seated if people to be seated in different parts of the venue arrive at different times so that they can be spread out rather than having all the 'more important' people trying to reach the 'better seats' at the same time.

If they have 500 people to seat in each 15 minute slot (and they only had from 9 -10 to get the bulk of the people in and seated) it is far easier if they could direct them in 4 or 5 different areas - so 50 here and 50 there with another 20 to the front couple of rows etc and then repeat that during the 2nd, 3rd and 4th 15 minutes arrival slots.

Thus Sarah arrived during her allocated slot and was sent to the second row - right behind the family - I would say into one of the 'better seats' in the cathedral where she could see the proceedings rather than those at the back who would have seen very little.
  #1059  
Old 04-18-2013, 02:29 PM
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The gurning exhibitionist: Fergie makes her presence known at Margaret Thatcher's funeral | Mail Online
  #1060  
Old 04-18-2013, 02:34 PM
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As if to give further credence to my earlier post, another bullying and bitchy article by the DM. It is a rag of a paper
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