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  #821  
Old 04-25-2012, 10:02 PM
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As former wife of a peer, Sarah is entitled to use according title and style (Sarah, Duchess of York) until she remarries. She was in fact a Royal Highness for a brief period after her divorce and until 1997 when the Queen issued Letters Patent regarding the former wives of British Princes.

If Andrew and Sarah remarry (to each other), Sarah would automatically become Her Royal Highness, The Duchess of York. The only way Sarah could be stopped from using the title of Royal Highness is if the Sovereign of the time issues Letters Patent depriving her of the style; although it is unlikely to happen, it is not impossible - George VI issues similar Letters Parent in regards to the Duchess of Windsor (who would otherwise automatically be a Royal Highness and British Princess by marriage).
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  #822  
Old 04-25-2012, 11:43 PM
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Yes Sarah is DoY, but if she is called Miss___ what fills in the blank, I for one know that she will always be DoY in a similar way that Diana was PoW after the divorce. For me the question what if anything fills in the blank after Miss __.
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  #823  
Old 04-26-2012, 12:08 AM
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Right, there's no denying that she's Duchess of York, but I think as Kataryn had mentioned, calling her Duchess initially and then "ma'am" afterward might be fitting. Personally, I think "Duchess" is awkward-sounding, but it's less formal, I think, than "ma'am," though I think the latter's also a correct form of address.
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  #824  
Old 04-26-2012, 12:39 PM
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Ma'am is correct form of address not only for Duchesses, but also for virtually any royal and noble lady, from the Queen to a Viscountess.

Strictly speaking, the proper form of address to a Duchess (whether in her own right, wife, former wife, or a dowager) is Your Grace, so I'd assume that's how Prince Andrew's staff refers to Sarah now. For the duration of her marriage to Prince Andrew, Sarah - as a Royal Peeress (by marriage), would have been referred to as Your Royal Highness first, and Ma'am thereafter.
  #825  
Old 04-26-2012, 12:42 PM
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Sarah is not Her Grace in the same way that she is not HRH. Her Grace is a style that applies to Duchesses and Dowager Duchesses but not to the ex wives of dukes. I think Sarah would have to be satisfied with being Ma'am.
  #826  
Old 04-26-2012, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
Yes Sarah is DoY, but if she is called Miss___ what fills in the blank, I for one know that she will always be DoY in a similar way that Diana was PoW after the divorce. For me the question what if anything fills in the blank after Miss __.
Sarah will never again be known as "Miss". She has been a married woman who has divorced. Miss is reserved for women who have never been married, unless they prefer to be known as "Ms.", meaning undisclosed marital status, once only used for business but now used everywhere.

She should only be known as Sarah, Duchess of York, the former Sarah Ferguson, unless she remarries.
  #827  
Old 04-26-2012, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Sarah is not Her Grace in the same way that she is not HRH. Her Grace is a style that applies to Duchesses and Dowager Duchesses but not to the ex wives of dukes. I think Sarah would have to be satisfied with being Ma'am.
Sarah isn't a Royal Highness because Letters Patent issued by the Queen in 1997 removed the right of former wives of the British Princes to use the title; for a brief period after her divorce and before the 1997 Letters Patent Sarah was indeed a HRH. The style of Your Grace is used to address non-royal dukes and their spouses; there is no law or rule (that I know of) that forbids the use of the style for former wives of dukes. Sarah is former wife of a Duke; since her higher style of Royal Highness was removed from her, she has to use the "lower" style of Grace.

Ma'am is probably the most used form of address for all royal and noble ladies, so logically it should be often used when addressing Sarah as well.
  #828  
Old 04-26-2012, 01:13 PM
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Debrett's

Here's what Debrett's has to say about addressing the former wife of a duke:

The recommended (social) style of address is as follows:

Beginning of letter Dear Duchess

End of letter Yours sincerely

Envelope Jillian, Duchess of Hamilton

Verbal communication Duchess

Invitation Jillian, Duchess of Hamilton

Description in conversation The Duchess of Hamilton

List of Directors or Patrons Jillian, Duchess of Hamilton

Place card Jillian, Duchess of Hamilton

Legal document Jillian Duchess of Hamilton

*If the former wife of a duke subsequently remarries she adopts her style of address from her present husband. Thus if Jillian, Duchess of Hamilton, marries Mr Cuthbert Robinson she becomes Mrs Cuthbert Robinson.






Address the Former Wife of a Duke - Form of Address, authoritative guide to Addressing Wives of Dukes
  #829  
Old 05-04-2012, 07:31 AM
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Sarah, Duchess of York, pictured in London on May 3, 2012.



** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 ** Pic 3 **
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  #830  
Old 05-04-2012, 01:41 PM
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The Duchess of York goes on trial in Turkey over secret orphanage documentary

Duchess of York goes on trial in Turkey over secret orphanage documentary | GlobalPost

What do you think how the sentence will be? Freedom or prison?
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  #831  
Old 05-04-2012, 02:11 PM
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I'm curious as to why Sarah seems to find it necessary to hold the hand of the person with whom she is walking. It looks rather silly at this point when it's her daughters, but really strange when it is some other adult.
  #832  
Old 05-04-2012, 04:40 PM
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Trial of Duchess of York begins in Ankara

Another article about the trial, w/ a bit of explanation about the extradition request - which may explain why Sarah has not been doing her usual jetting around to other countries.

Re: the handholding, I've seen that in some countries it is the norm for adult women (usually close friends or siblings) to hold hands in public - but I've never thought this to be the case in Britain - my guess would be that she grabbed the helper's hand when she saw/passed close to the flashes of the cameras. Nice to see a longer skirt length - but what's up w/ the white bandages on her feet, again?
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Old 05-04-2012, 05:01 PM
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I think that she'll be sentenced to prison. As far as I can see, she did what she's accused of doing. There was no attempt by the documentary makers to hide the identities of the children--which seems to have been the law which had been broken. There should have been more research done on Turkish law before this documentary was screened. While I don't think there's any possibility that Sarah will "do time"--given that the British government won't extradite her--I do think that Sarah might have learned a hard lesson from this. I think that the others who made the documentary are responsible as well.


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The Duchess of York goes on trial in Turkey over secret orphanage documentary

Duchess of York goes on trial in Turkey over secret orphanage documentary | GlobalPost

What do you think how the sentence will be? Freedom or prison?
  #834  
Old 05-04-2012, 07:20 PM
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I really don't know what outcome to hope for. A conviction that would pretty much mean she cannot leave the UK so she could be kept on a short leash, or an acquittal that would mean she could leave the UK.
  #835  
Old 05-04-2012, 07:27 PM
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I have a feeling she'll be sentenced to prison in absentia, so it might very well be the short rein confined to the UK.
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  #836  
Old 05-04-2012, 08:43 PM
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Purely PR wise, this is actually a win for Sarah and a definite lose for Turkey.
Convicted or not, Sarah will be seen as something of a martyr, a person who is prosecuted for trying to aid helpless children and highlight their plight.
Turkey, on the other hand, will be seen a bully who, instead of resolving the issues presented in the documentary, chose to instead prosecute those who showed their failures. A really bad move on the part of the Turkish officials; it's not as though there is actually any chance Sarah will be de facto sentenced. All this trial will achieve is negative publicity for the country.
  #837  
Old 05-04-2012, 08:53 PM
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Agreed. Turkey appears as a backward country that is trying to censor images of suffering children. Sarah appears both courageous and martyr-like in comparison.
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Old 05-04-2012, 10:02 PM
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NGalitzine mentioned that a conviction would mean she cannot leave the UK; if that happens would she not be able to leave for a few months, a year, years, or as long as her prison sentence.
Just to play Devil's Advocate, but most orphanages throughout the world suck and need some serious reforms. From the little I know of what is going on it appears Sarah is in trouble for showing the faces of minors on tv.
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  #839  
Old 05-04-2012, 10:11 PM
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I think it would be more accurate to say that if convicted, Sarah is unlikely to travel to the countries that have extradition treaties with Turkey. If she ever wanted to, Sarah would be, for example, more than welcome to visit Armenia at any time without any fears of extradition.

Apart from showing faces of minors on TV, Sarah is also accused of a false declaration (of her plans for the visit) and trespassing into a Government institution. However, the main issue from Turkey's point of view is undoubtedly the less than flattering portrayal in the documentary. Turkey has some incredibly strict laws regarding "insults" towards the state. It is enough to mention their Article 301, which saw Nobel prize recipient Orhan Pamuk being prosecuted ex post facto for daring to comment on one of the more sensitive topics in Turkey's history.
  #840  
Old 05-05-2012, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
Agreed. Turkey appears as a backward country that is trying to censor images of suffering children. Sarah appears both courageous and martyr-like in comparison.
Maybe to some, but to others she looks more like a fake looking for publicity. I just no longer believes in her sincerity towards any cause except her own personae
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