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  #421  
Old 07-27-2011, 02:07 AM
Aristocracy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dymphna View Post
Excellent points, Diarist. Andrew may not be "paying off her debts" himself--one way or the other.

I didn't realize that Diana was under a gag order after her divorce. I always thought that Sarah's syrupy sweet insistence that she just loves the entire RF was a direct reaction to Diana's controversial interviews before the divorce. Now, I've come to think it is her way of manipulation--of the press, of Andrew...I'm not sure which. Maybe both.

Even if Andrew is not paying the debts off himself, he could contribute a portion of the funds, and that would be sufficient "consideration" for Sarah's agreement to refrain from discussing the BRF. Perhaps Andrew benefits from Sarah's "loose lips". She repeatedly and emphatically stated that he was unaware of her cash for access scheme and that he was "whiter than white". If she had been silenced, who could have defended him?
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  #422  
Old 07-27-2011, 03:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Diarist View Post
Interesting points, although I do wonder whether Andrew is really as 'close' to Sarah as she says. I had the privilege of being in the Royal Enclosure at Ascot and saw that Andew was escorting a Miss Judith Hess; and whilst of course I do not know whether it is true or not, the British Press have also linked Andrew with a number of women over the past year or so.......

I am one of those people who don't really think that the fact that Sarah lives at Royal Lodge is really significant - whilst it is not the size of BP, it still has 30 bedrooms and Sarah is reputedly in a guest suite. With Andrew spending his free time (usually) on the golf course, I would not be surprised if he actually does not see so much of Sarah. OK, he will definately be with her - and rightly so - when it is a joint activity with Beatrice and Eugenie, but otherwise we might see Sarah and Andrew together occasionally in public, but I don't necessarily think that that in itself is evidence that they are as close as Sarah would like us to think......

Only my thoughts

Alex
I suspect that you're right. The fact that as soon as Sarah started talking about how close they are...Andrew showed up at Ascot with Judith Hess. Considering that he always goes to events alone, I think that action spoke volumes.
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  #423  
Old 07-27-2011, 04:41 AM
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That's quite an observation, kakieanne. I can't remember the last time we saw Andrew and Sarah together when Beatrice and Eugenie weren't also there. Seems to me that we'd see a picture of them leaving a restaurant together once in a while, but we never do now. Except for letting her stay in rooms in Royal Lodge, there's been no evidence that he has sympathy for her.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kakieanne View Post
The fact that as soon as Sarah started talking about how close they are...Andrew showed up at Ascot with Judith Hess. Considering that he always goes to events alone, I think that action spoke volumes.
  #424  
Old 07-27-2011, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fascinator View Post
Even if Andrew is not paying the debts off himself, he could contribute a portion of the funds, and that would be sufficient "consideration" for Sarah's agreement to refrain from discussing the BRF. Perhaps Andrew benefits from Sarah's "loose lips". She repeatedly and emphatically stated that he was unaware of her cash for access scheme and that he was "whiter than white". If she had been silenced, who could have defended him?
Look, the thing with Sarah is, that she protects him like mad, because Andrew is the only way she is living where she is living and is the only reason she isn't banned, after all her antics, from seeing her daughters. If he got angry and motivated enough, he could easily kick her out and then start fixing things so she ends up drowning in her debt and in her past mistakes. I think he was unaware, but he's keeping quiet (publicly at least) mainly to prevent an escalation. If Andrew were to give an interview denouncing Sarah, Sarah might end up retaliating (she strikes me as that sensitive and nervy) and then what?

At the moment, Andrew is likely keeping her until what control he can and then hopefully let sarah hang herself and keep the girls out of it. At least I hope that's what he's doing.
  #425  
Old 07-27-2011, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
I think he was unaware, but he's keeping quiet (publicly at least) mainly to prevent an escalation. If Andrew were to give an interview denouncing Sarah, Sarah might end up retaliating (she strikes me as that sensitive and nervy) and then what?

At the moment, Andrew is likely keeping her until what control he can and then hopefully let sarah hang herself and keep the girls out of it. At least I hope that's what he's doing.
That's a very good observation, I think. Plus there are families, who have some sort of "ill chicken" in their midst that psychologically made all of them dependend on her will. There a re alot of books dealing with that constellation in families where the members of a family would do all to protect the one in their midst, while this person is not really worth all these sacrifices, heartbreak and pain. It goes so far that members of the family actively destroy their own chances in life only to not be forced to leave their "chicken" alone or just facing the piper. And it's not born out of love (while that's surely a part of it) but out of being manipulated and used in such a way that they cannot do anything against it. Guilt, the feeling of not being thankful enough, the feeling of having more and better things... all kinds of feelings that those relatives feel.

So thinking about that I wonder if it wasn't the York-girls choice to become working girls instead of working princesses because that would remove a chance from them that their mother might envy. Just a thought.
  #426  
Old 07-27-2011, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fascinator View Post
Even if Andrew is not paying the debts off himself, he could contribute a portion of the funds, and that would be sufficient "consideration" for Sarah's agreement to refrain from discussing the BRF. Perhaps Andrew benefits from Sarah's "loose lips". She repeatedly and emphatically stated that he was unaware of her cash for access scheme and that he was "whiter than white". If she had been silenced, who could have defended him?
Excellent point. If she's going to continue to do these things, and if he is going to continue to let her live at the palace and support her financially, she has to be able to defend him in public.
  #427  
Old 07-27-2011, 10:14 AM
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An even better idea is for her not to have done it in the first place then he wouldn't have needed defending! Also it rings very hollow when she won't even admit what she did was wrong and is gaining financially of his friends and him.
  #428  
Old 07-27-2011, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadow View Post
An even better idea is for her not to have done it in the first place then he wouldn't have needed defending! Also it rings very hollow when she won't even admit what she did was wrong and is gaining financially of his friends and him.
Very, very good point. She's running around saying that she didn't do anything wrong (meaning she would not think twice about doing it again?!) and meanwhile the RF and Andrew's friends are bailing her out.

What is in it for Andrew's friends? I've often wondered that. It really doesn't look good for Andrew, IMO.
  #429  
Old 07-27-2011, 02:22 PM
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But what can Andrew and the girls do? Sarah didn't always show her worst side in public like this. Her family became so intensely loyal to her, I think, because Sarah portrayed herself as a victim of the cruel British press. She created a kind of "us against the world" mentality that I think Andrew and the girls accepted, because they saw just how vicious the press could be. And at one time, Sarah was pretty well-behaved, so it looked like the press and the royal family just couldn't give her a break. I'm sure that many people on these forums, including me, had good things to say about Sarah during the years when she was a Weight Watchers spokeswoman.

So did Andrew. As far as Andrew's public support is concerned, it's interesting, because when their girls were growing up, I remember him making public statements about what a good mother she was, and appearing with her regularly in public. It's true, though, that those statements and those public appearances have gradually disappeared. I think Andrew must realize that Sarah is a liability to his public image (especially now)! One wonders if the girls are beginning to clue in, as well. If Tyger's recap about Beatrice's tears is right, it looks like Beatrice loves her mother, but doesn't like the person she has become. I wouldn't be surprised if Andrew feels the same way.

The problem is that it seems like Sarah, Andrew, Beatrice and Eugenie are such a tight family unit that they're almost co-dependent on each other. None of them will tell Sarah that she has a problem, because it would break their us-against-the-world circle - they'd be betraying one of their own, or something like that. At least that's how I see it - they're all afraid that if they cut Sarah loose, they're throwing her to the wolves.

It is very sad, but I think Sarah will take her whole family down with her before they cut her loose.
  #430  
Old 07-27-2011, 02:42 PM
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I think they want to extract her, but they just want it to be very clear to the public and press WHY they are cutting her out. I wonder if secretly the York princesses hate their mother and hate how she's been ruining things for them. They can't just walk away, because Sarah will likely follow, so they are stuck slowly cutting her out, saving themselves by degrees and having more of their life wasted.
  #431  
Old 07-27-2011, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
I think they want to extract her, but they just want it to be very clear to the public and press WHY they are cutting her out. I wonder if secretly the York princesses hate their mother and hate how she's been ruining things for them. They can't just walk away, because Sarah will likely follow, so they are stuck slowly cutting her out, saving themselves by degrees and having more of their life wasted.
I don't think that they hate her. I think that they are probably deeply protective and loving of her at the same time that they are realizing much more of her nature as it reveals itself. I can only imagine it's similar to loving someone with a drinking problem. They (those with a drink or drug problem) are who they are, and as they worsen, they either seek help on their own or live in denial. But at some point, if they do not find help that sticks, you as the person who loves them, has to loosen the ties or risk drowning yourself.

It doesn't mean that you stop loving them. It only means that you have started loving yourself a bit more, and have performed a triage.
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  #432  
Old 07-27-2011, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Eyes View Post
Like most people to varying degrees of this forums I have been critical of some of Sarah's antics and absolutely agree she should keep a lower profile, but NGalitzine your dislike for Sarah runs so deep I find it a bit irrational. I'm assuming that she hasn't never hurt you personally. I'm actually not far off thinking you wouldn't be too sorry if she dropped dead in the morning. All that been said your opinion is your honest opinion and your are fully entitled to it, and I sincerely apologise in advance if I have misintrepreted or read too much into your posts.
As Diarist might say I do not wish to offend.
I actually quite liked her when she married into the family in 1986, I bought into the whole "breath of fresh air" story the press put about.

I don't hate her but I have absolutely no respect for her, and believe she will continue to inflict more damage on her chldren, on her ex-husband and on herself. She is a 50 year old woman with the needs of a small child, someone must always be there to take care of her or rescue her. The concept of personal responsibility is not one she is familiar with.
  #433  
Old 07-27-2011, 10:07 PM
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It doesn't mean that you stop loving them. It only means that you have started loving yourself a bit more, and have performed a triage.

Exactly. You save yourself because you are the only person in the end that you can save.

Quote:
Sarah didn't always show her worst side in public like this. Her family became so intensely loyal to her, I think, because Sarah portrayed herself as a victim of the cruel British press
And of course, the 'evil' courtiers (everyone's favorite scapegoat) who wanted her to do her stupid job. She was a different person behind closed doors and I am thankful that we are finally seeing it and so are more people. To be frank, I never liked her and for some time didn't like Diana at all, but now I am beginning to sympathize with Diana more and Sarah even less. Now the public is finally seeing what the courtiers have probably been seeing and now we are really vindicated (AT LAST) when it comes to our dislike. I have no tolerance for this sort of thing from any woman, since we have more than enough OPPORTUNITIES to end up making our own honest way in this world.
  #434  
Old 07-27-2011, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
I actually quite liked her when she married into the family in 1986, I bought into the whole "breath of fresh air" story the press put about.

I don't hate her but I have absolutely no respect for her, and believe she will continue to inflict more damage on her chldren, on her ex-husband and on herself. She is a 50 year old woman with the needs of a small child, someone must always be there to take care of her or rescue her. The concept of personal responsibility is not one she is familiar with.
NGalitzine, I think it's because she was very likeable (and they as a couple) in the beginning that people are so disappointed now. Thank you for clarifying your thoughts, please know that I didn't intend to insult you by slightly disagreeing with your opinions.
  #435  
Old 07-27-2011, 10:28 PM
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i have always liked Sarah, I may not have liked what she has done, or protrayed as doing. but you never know really what is going on in her life, or what has gone on in her life. We dont know her thoughts, feelings or the thoughts and feeling of her family. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt...good people do bad things. I dont believe the bad actins of someone makes a bad person it simply makes mistakes.
  #436  
Old 07-28-2011, 01:32 AM
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You can give someone the benefit of the doubt if they make a couple of mistakes and learn from them. Sarah doesn't seem to learn from hers and she continues to make the same mistakes time after time. Sarah is not a stupid woman but I think her greed and sense of entitlement overrides her senses. Clearly someone who has been on the verge of bankruptcy not just once but a couple of times in Sarah's case knows what causes it but doesn't do anything to fix the problem. Sarah could have been set for life if she had lived within her own means and not frittered the money she earnt away and she has nothing to show for it. I don't find selling access to your husband a mistake it doesn't take a genius to work out that is just wrong on so many levels. Sarah must have told someone she was willing to open doors to Andrew, then she needed to arrange to meet the Shiek, then talk about the cash then arrange the actual cash exchange meeting that is just one mistake after the other. Besides Sarah doesn't see what she does as mistakes they are all someone else's fault and she is the victim!
  #437  
Old 07-28-2011, 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Irish Eyes View Post
NGalitzine, I think it's because she was very likeable (and they as a couple) in the beginning that people are so disappointed now. Thank you for clarifying your thoughts, please know that I didn't intend to insult you by slightly disagreeing with your opinions.
That's a statement that can apply to myself. I was a big Sarah fan from the beginning and she was so likeable, it added to her charm for me. I am very disappointed in her now, I admired the way she brought herself back from the brink the first time of her money troubles.
I've been accused on some MB's of being a Sarah "hater", but the irony of it all was that in the months before her NOTW scandal, I was posting articles about her charity visits and stating my admiration for her visits to cancer hospitals and visiting the patients and raising awareness.
  #438  
Old 07-28-2011, 02:40 AM
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Spare us your latest sob story Fergie! Even the Duchess of York's most ardent apologists have deserted her


Quote:
There used to be a time when I felt rather sorry for Sarah, Duchess of York.


As the infamously toe-sucked, debt-ridden, disaster-prone former daughter-in-law of the Queen was banished from royalty’s inner circles, and took to eating her Christmas Day lunch alone at Wood Farm, on the Sandringham estate, while her daughters joined the Queen up at the Big House, it seemed the pathetic Sarah had joined Wallis Simpson and Princess Diana among those outcasts who highlight our Royal Family’s unfortunate capacity for unforgiving ostracism.


And while the not entirely virtuous Camilla Parker Bowles appeared to bask in a rosy glow of royal acceptance and approval, the treatment meted out to the wretched Fergie often seemed cruel, harsh and lacking in Christian charity
.


Read more: Sarah Ferguson: New TV series on Oprah Winfrey channel is embarrasingly emotional | Mail Online

Neat new opinion piece.
  #439  
Old 07-28-2011, 03:34 AM
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This is part of Sarah's tragedy: she's a woman who has the energy to accomplish truly worthwhile things, but she's lost so much goodwill that I don't know whether any charity would want her involved now. It's sad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katrianna View Post
... I was posting articles about her charity visits and stating my admiration for her visits to cancer hospitals and visiting the patients and raising awareness.
  #440  
Old 07-28-2011, 09:06 AM
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Over the years several charities have stopped using Sarah because of the bad press she gets. With all the recent troubles who would have her? She isn't trustworthy and doesn't take responsibility she isn't a good example of anything for anyone. You need to believe someone when they are talking about something and I'm afraid Sarah has lost a lot of people respect and trust. Especially when she tells Dr Phil she wants to be a public figure and be famous would she be there for the people or just to get the attention for doing something good! Huge problem for her now....
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