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  #341  
Old 07-07-2011, 10:32 PM
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If Sarah used the name Montagu after a family name she wouldn't the first or last to do so. Many writers use names of family members or places that mean something to them when they write. One of the first rules of writing is write what you know..

Some of the character names of the Young and the Restless (a US soap opera) are named after real life members of the Bell family (the family that created and currently writes and produces the show). Of course, since its Sarah its automatically discounted as a fairytale.

And considering that people in this very forum are always talking about Sarah getting a job, you would think people would be a little objective in her endeavors. The romance industry (particularly the regency period) is a growing booming segment of the book industry! If Sarah could write a fairly decent book (with all the cliche's included) she could establish a possible following, maybe get a 2 to 3 additional book contract and earn money that way.

I will be the first to call Sarah out on her issues/mistakes but she can't do right by some of you.
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  #342  
Old 07-07-2011, 10:33 PM
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Meadow, please marry me, that was a brilliant post.
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  #343  
Old 07-07-2011, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
And considering that people in this very forum are always talking about Sarah getting a job, you would think people would be a little objective in her endeavors. The romance industry (particularly the regency period) is a growing booming segment of the book industry! If Sarah could write a fairly decent book (with all the cliche's included) she could establish a possible following, maybe get a 2 to 3 additional book contract and earn money that way.

I will be the first to call Sarah out on her issues/mistakes but she can't do right by some of you.
Thumbs up, Zonk! (Why doesn't this forum have a thumbs-up icon?) This is the closest I can find but not quite what I intend.

Regarding the writing - in the end, all writing is autobiographical, one way or another. She is probably best going under a psuedonym at this point to - as mentioned - establish herself. She should make her mistakes in private, at least with the writing. Its interesting to reflect that were it not for tabloids and carefully planted cameras, and getting her drunk and leading her into a room to set her up, she'd likely be okay, wouldn't she?

Its important to recognize that the publishing business is going through major changes. In another economic climate Sarah's name may be just fine - the lack of success with her pitches is not necessarily a reflection on her. Might be but I have a hunch its not. We all have lean periods and not everything one does is always a hit out of the ball park. The fact that she even has the discipline and creativity to do what she does is laudable - give her a break - not about wrong doing - but give her a pat on the back: this woman is no sponger!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sliver_bic View Post
I wonder if she'd ever consider releasing somethign under a pen name. I know she's holding onto, "Duchess of York" like a drowning man with a life preserver but, if the story is good enough, could an editor convince her to try her hand without the RF limelight? The cloak job wouldn't last long but if it showed any sign of success it'd help her rebuild.
In the US, anyway, politicians and members of the military are always addressed by their last highest office/rank held, even if no longer in office or retired. So its 'general' even if the person is now a civilian, or its 'Governor' even though the person is no longer in office and was once a Senator. Sarah being styled the Duchess of York makes perfect sense to me. Deposed Royalty do it. Diana did it. It is the significant position that defines her in the world - it always will. Its part of who she is - why should she deny it? The world won't let her forget it. Or more correctly, the tabloids.
  #344  
Old 07-08-2011, 12:39 AM
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That's exactly what I thought, sliver_bic. I thought, "This description sounds familiar."


Quote:
Originally Posted by sliver_bic View Post
AM I the only one who sees that book and thinks it might have been Sarah (in better days) describing herself?
  #345  
Old 07-08-2011, 12:46 AM
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Romance novels, if done right, can make a person scads of money that would rival a lot of her endeavors. Add in selling rights to make miniseries and movies of the books and she would be raking in more than enough money. If she really played it right, she could wind up becoming a new Barbara Cartland, which would suit her just fine I'm sure. Given her flamboyance, I can easily see her wearing bright pink fluffy pastel outfits, diamonds, and poodles with rhinestone collars around their necks.
  #346  
Old 07-08-2011, 12:50 AM
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This is true. Everybody needs to escape from reality once in awhile, and a romance novel will do it for a lot of people.


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Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
Romance novels, if done right, can make a person scads of money that would rival a lot of her endeavors. Add in selling rights to make miniseries and movies of the books and she would be raking in more than enough money.
  #347  
Old 07-08-2011, 01:21 AM
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The romance novel industry is a BILLION dollar industry so maybe we shouldn't be so dismissive of Sarah's attempt to write the genre. I am not going to lie I have been known to buy a romance novel. Unless she is a Nora Roberts, Danielle Steel or Janet Dailey she isn't going rich rich, but most likely she can support herself.

Franky, I dont' know why she doesn't go the Princess Michael of Kent, Victoria Holt, Allison Weir or Philppa Gregory route.....historical fiction novels. Providing of course, that Sarah has the talent for writing such books.
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  #348  
Old 07-08-2011, 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
That's exactly what I thought, sliver_bic. I thought, "This description sounds familiar."
I remember reading the description of this book before, and the heroine's name was Lady Margaret Sarah (Sarah's name is Sarah Margaret!) I believe, also, that the heroine fell in love with a naval officer...

The reason I don't think Sarah will be making a career out of writing romance novels is the length of time it has taken this one book to be published. Romance novelists have to turn out books quickly. Sarah probably has the right imagination to write romance or historical novels, but I'm not sure she has the talent or attention span.
  #349  
Old 07-08-2011, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger View Post
Oh dear - her 'Kool-Aid'? She got to where she is by making tons of mistakes. She got to where she is by facing down the hate in the tabloids. She got to where she is by refusing to be defined by the haters who said a woman could not - and especially a black woman - could not. Oprah is a role model. Oprah's achievements are stunning. Oprah has a lot to share with Sarah. - and I could see Oprah wanting Sarah to succeed. Oprah knows what it is like to be slammed down and slammed down hard. Oprah knows what it is to fail - to get it wrong, to make the same mistakes over and over again. Interesting 'Kool-Aid'.

BTW, I don't watch her - or didn't - except for a few times over the years. I am acutely aware of her in the business, of course, and of her success - in my case particularly around the 'Group Reads' she has done. I am acutely aware of her charity work - both publicized and not. She may certainly be business savvy, but she is as successful as she is because she has integrity. Not that she is not flawed - I'm sure she is - she'd be the first to tell us - as she has!
There's a big saying that what you give out returns to you. I have never really been a Oprah fan of her show but on the occasions that i did, she was purely professional and knew how lead a person on topic to talk about this or that without any glib funnies or off the shoulder remarks. On an interview level, I'd rank her very close to Barbara Walters. On a humanitarian level, I think the show got carried away. cars for all. trips to Oz for all and that brought attention to what Oprah wanted people to see.. To me that was like a promo to watch me and see what I do next and the next thing we know, Habitats for Humanity was in the global face. This world she works in is a give and take world and she's not only given but i think by taking she knows she has more to give back and so on and so forth. Quoting me and saying Habitats was before Oz or what ever is cool but this is just an example. Its a give and take world. I use my examples from my limited knowledge of her show.

Perhaps that's the lesson she wishes she could pass on to Sarah by example. Perhaps working with Oprah something will rub off. If it did, maybe Sarah could make it in a talk show world. She'd have to learn how to really focus on someone else (even if she's never met the person) and draw that person out and talk about them.

The more I see of Finding Sarah and the promotions for the book of the same name, I've find myself coming to see that what she is after with all this is a self image and not self esteem. Its a step forward though. I don't think in any way she means harm. She's learning perhaps how to do this stuff called life.

I wish her well. There's a lot of us out there that have told our life stories and to people that would benefit from it. If it helped, good. If it didn't, so what. What she HAS done takes guts.
  #350  
Old 07-08-2011, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger View Post
In the US, anyway, politicians and members of the military are always addressed by their last highest office/rank held, even if no longer in office or retired. So its 'general' even if the person is now a civilian, or its 'Governor' even though the person is no longer in office and was once a Senator. Sarah being styled the Duchess of York makes perfect sense to me. Deposed Royalty do it. Diana did it. It is the significant position that defines her in the world - it always will. Its part of who she is - why should she deny it? The world won't let her forget it. Or more correctly, the tabloids.
Diana's actions made her title her own,which is why Camilla, despite legally being The Princess of Wales, doesn't use the title. Sarah has simply held onto her title and tattooed it onto her forehead, she has created a life where she is nothing without it and according to some reports, she still walks around with business cards that say 'The Duchess of York'.

"I wonder if she'd ever consider releasing something under a pen name"the reasoning being that her name is Mud and as such, someone might convince her to give anonymity a shot, at least at first, to see how she could do. It would be a great victory for the woman if the book actually did something without her pushing it as it could not be claimed that she was, "trading on her royal connections". Yes, the fact that she got published was helped by those connections but everything can't be perfect.
  #351  
Old 07-08-2011, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger View Post
In the US, anyway, politicians and members of the military are always addressed by their last highest office/rank held, even if no longer in office or retired. So its 'general' even if the person is now a civilian, or its 'Governor' even though the person is no longer in office and was once a Senator. Sarah being styled the Duchess of York makes perfect sense to me. Deposed Royalty do it. Diana did it. It is the significant position that defines her in the world - it always will. Its part of who she is - why should she deny it? The world won't let her forget it. Or more correctly, the tabloids.
Thank you, Tyger, for that very reasonable and well-argued justification for Sarah being referred to as The Duchess of York. It amazes me how obsessive people get about the technicalities of her title, even down to that little word “the”!

And more generally, I think your recent posts have been superb – eloquent and empathetic, with a genuine sense for Sarah as a human being, with all her many great qualities. It’s been a pleasure to read them!
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  #352  
Old 07-08-2011, 04:21 PM
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Oh I don't know, the romance books all follow a set pattern/formula. Russo has been known to read them on occasion after all the stuffy bio.'s she's read. Maybe this could be a new venue for Sarah?
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  #353  
Old 07-08-2011, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FergieFan View Post
And more generally, I think your recent posts have been superb – eloquent and empathetic, with a genuine sense for Sarah as a human being, with all her many great qualities. It’s been a pleasure to read them!
Thank you, FergieFan, that is high praise! Thank you.

P.S. I think you might see my text differently, however, if we ever wind up having a disagreement of opinion.

Just saying.
  #354  
Old 07-08-2011, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sliver_bic View Post
Diana's actions made her title her own,which is why Camilla, despite legally being The Princess of Wales, doesn't use the title. Sarah has simply held onto her title and tattooed it onto her forehead, she has created a life where she is nothing without it and according to some reports, she still walks around with business cards that say 'The Duchess of York'.
Camilla's 'inability' to use The Princess of Wales moniker has everything to do with why some are saying that Sarah will impact the next Duchess of York - possibly thinking along the lines of the Duke of Clarence. You are assuming a positive regarding Diana when in fact there may be a negative reason regarding Diana for avoiding the moniker. There have been titles that have been so infused by a particular personality that forever after they summon up that individual. The Duchess of York is one such, I guess we can safely say, as was Diana in recent times. I would have to say that Diana did as you say - she 'created a life where she [was] nothing without [the title]'. Diana 'cashed in' on her RF connections (she never would have been on the Fayed boat were she not who she was in regards the RF, for example, nor would the paparazzi have followed her, nor would charities have wanted her - if anyone was defined by her title it was Diana and she used it) as much as you think Sarah is doing - and yet Sarah has been more discreet than Diana ever was. For that discretion there has not been one word of praise and recognition. The fact that she is being stalked - and set up - by tabloids ever as much as Diana was (with Diana's complicity) never gets a nod.

The comparison of these two women is fascinating - especially when you consider their similar mother experiences, too. Both had eating issues. I could go on - but how different the tabloids have treated them. I have a wager that Diana would not have fared very well with the tabloids as the years wore on had she lived, especially as the physical effects of the bulimia became more and more difficult to hide with make-up (as it was already happening - it was becoming increasingly clear that bulimia was beginning to ravage her looks). Diana may have eventually gone Sarah's route and then some. But that's speculation and we will never know - but why is Diana cut such tremendous slack and Sarah not? Its a curious thing....
  #355  
Old 07-08-2011, 11:52 PM
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For one thing, Diana is dead; she's no longer causing scandals and people tend to forget these things over time. Some posters have been truly scathing about Diana, and so I don't think it's that she's "cut slack." Some of the threads here about Diana are more-or-less memorial threads with pictures and so on. People who collect Diana pictures aren't apt to be highly critical of her, except for people like me who perhaps remember Diana's more innocent years, in the early 80s, with nostalgia. However, I'm highly critical about her later years and particularly the few years before she died. The thread about Diana's legacy is quite balanced, I think, with "pro" opinions and "con" opinions.

Sarah is here and now, making cringe-making statements and doing dubious things, which is why she's criticized.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger View Post
- but why is Diana cut such tremendous slack and Sarah not? Its a curious thing....
  #356  
Old 07-11-2011, 08:50 AM
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I do have a problem with Sarah being styled 'THE Duchess of York'. Whilst Zonk is quite right about retention of styles and titles by deposed royals / the military etc, under English Law [the position with styles and titles is sometimes a bit different in Scottish law], on divorce Sarah lost the right to be 'THE Duchess of York' and legally is styled 'Sarah, Duchess of York'. It is similar with non-royal titles, e.g Miss Susan Smith marries Sir George Plenty. She is then known as Lady Plenty [Never ever ever Lady Susan Plenty' - the tabloids often get this distinction wrong] On divorce, she becomes Susan, Lady Plenty.

I am not a 'Fergie hater'. In fact, I have actually met Sarah on many occasions and indeed first came across her long, long before she became involved with Prince Andrew. Apart from this, whenever I write something on a controversial subject matter, I am always anxious to try to present what I have to say in as neutral a way as possible.

However, I have to say that - and however unfair this may sound - if Sarah did not have a 'duchess' title to use, I am quite CERTAIN that none of her projects would EVER have got off the ground. Right from the earliest days of her marriage, Sarah has used her title for commercial gain. Please, please, everyone, note carefully that I am NOT saying that Sarah is talentless, no good at anything etc etc. Far from it - Sarah is regarded as a competent public speaker and has fronted campaigns for organisations as diverse as Weight Watchers to china manufacturers. She is a published author of children's books. But the problem is this - I am quite sure that Sarah only got those opportunities because she is trading on her royal title. By this, I mean no disrespect to Sarah, but that I am sure that there are a good few people throughout the English Speaking world who could have done the same or even better IF THEY HAD HAD the same opportunities as Sarah to gain the appropriate profile to present themselves in this way........

I feel that the Oprah interviews and the accompanying book are a terrible mistake for Sarah. I take the view that Oprah - who is a very astute businesswoman - saw 'value' in a series about Sarah as giving a high profile to Oprah's new tv venture. Please not that I am NOT saying that Oprah is unkind etc etc. To me though, Oprah may well project genuine friendliness to Sarah, but that is not the same as friendship. And in the final analysis I perceive that there is in fact a conflict of interest between Oprah's commercial needs and Sarah's own needs, some of which are of course commercial and some of which are personal.

In my very humble opinion, Sarah's confessions and her behaviour as exposed on Oprah's tv series can only - in the long run - have a terrible effect on Sarah's current business plans. Before Oprah, Sarah was projected as a pretty savvy businesswoman. Now, for a sum of money which well-informed forum members have advised me is either £200,000 or $200,000 dollars, Sarah [who I think really needed to be properly advised by competent independent advisors and not just tv executives etc] has revealed herself to be completely incompetent with even the most basic understanding of financial matters, has revealed herself to be very economical with the truth over matters as diverse as the 'cash for access sting' [look at what she said on Fox and then compare that with the Fake Sheikh clip], her upbringing [contrast what she says now about the alleged abuse she suffered, when previously she herself as written about her happy upbringing - as well as the apparent contradiction and apparent inaccuracies (her sister Jane seems to be remembering things differently) (and it also seems bad to drag these matters up now that her parents are dead and in no position to defend themselves)] and her own position as mother of her two daughters - Sarah now shows how much she needs her daughters to take care of her emotionally - a COMPLETE role-reversal if ever there was one and Sarah has also revealed that she can only survive by plundering her daughters' trust funds [ and I remember not so long ago that Sarah actually received an award for Mother of the Year - ye gods, now look at what we now know about her parenting skills - the unspoken subtext must now be thank god the Yorks employed a nanny from one of the best training colleges in the world, or goodness knows how her beloved children would have turned out....] And on a personal leve, in a very humble way, could I ask everyone here to think how it all appears to me, because it is about a person who I met and liked....is my own judgement that bad, because truly the Sarah I met did not seem to be the Sarah that is now being revealed to us all, and not a particularly nice or honourable Sarah at that....

I am so sorry to have to say this, but I think that for the next few years, Sarah's business and charity programmes and her personal life are all going to be 'tainted' by what she has herself revealed. I looked at her off to Annabel's [high society] nightclub the other day to celebrate the retirement of its long-serving barman, and all I could think of is 'is it appropriate for her to be out on the town in an expensive gown etc etc' when we now all know how precarious her financial situation is? [in other words, is the £ coming from her daughters or the (presumably rapidly diminishing) £200,000, Is it right that she should be seen publically enjoying herself out at one of the world's most expensive nightclubs when several of her own personal staff have been forced to accept a lowly proportion of what was due to them etc etc? Is it right that she should be wearing such an expensive gown or carrying such a costly designer bag? etc etc

Instead of having her current affairs recorded here, for Sarah's sake I think that [to use that famous political quotation] ' a period of silence in now in order', whilst she lowers her profile right down in an attempt to recover some dignity in a very sad situation.

I will end now with my usual disclaimer, namely that the foregoing is my own opinion and I don't wish to offend anyone. But, my goodness, it makes me so incredibly sad when I look back to what I [and others] thought in 1986 was a very welcome 'breath of fresh air' coming into a monarchy jaded by the apparent vanity of the Princess of Wales and compare it to the Sarah we see in 2011.

Alex
  #357  
Old 07-11-2011, 09:21 AM
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I think it is very well said Alex. It also makes you wonder who the real Sarah is! I do think she is very good at public events putting on a good face etc. I agree I think she has made her situation worse with this Oprah show. It is clear she tells lies and people are picking them up. Sadly I don't think she will get much better if she truly learns anything from Finding Sarah we should be seeing it. So far she seems to be doing what she did before and people will wonder where she is getting the cash from. I hope she hasn't been taking it from the girls because it isn't fair on them in the long run. Time will tell......
  #358  
Old 07-11-2011, 10:15 AM
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Thank you for your input Meadow, and do you know, some of it just breaks my heart. I can remember when Sarah joined the BRF, it seemed so ideal. With the 'love affair' of Charles and Diana rapidly unravelling for all to see, it seemed wonderful to have a Royal couple who actually seemed to love each other....and then there was the wonderful advantage of Sarah actually being a very competent horsewoman and able to ride out with Her Majesty, and also being keen to learn carriage driving from Prince Philip [none of which appealed to Diana....] And Sarah did not seem obsessed with clothes [a trait of Diana which many of the Royal Family did not understand - to them, clothes were best epitomised by the Queen Mother's famously quoted phrase 'The props'] And even at meals, there was Sarah tucking in and enjoying her food [and how!! with hindsight] whereas Diana was all eating disorders and calorie counting. Balmoral barbeques were right up Sarah's street - Diana famously loathed them... everything seemed so promising for Sarah at the start.....
  #359  
Old 07-11-2011, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FergieFan View Post
Thank you, Tyger, for that very reasonable and well-argued justification for Sarah being referred to as The Duchess of York. It amazes me how obsessive people get about the technicalities of her title, even down to that little word “the”!
Sigh.

She is Sarah, Duchess of York. She is not T he Duchess of York and she has not been since 1996. Done and done. She has the same style as any other divorced wife of a peer. Not entitled to anything more than that, despite the fact that she has just never gotten over it all.

And it is not a "little" word. As any amount of time on this forum could tell you, it is incredibly significant. Don't believe me? Ask Prince Phillip, who had to wait until he had been married to the Queen for several years before being granted "The" before his name.

She's not entitled to it, and it is endlessly wearisome to have to explain the correct and proper usage of titles, styles, and names in what is a Royal forum.
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  #360  
Old 07-11-2011, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Diarist View Post
Thank you for your input Meadow, and do you know, some of it just breaks my heart. I can remember when Sarah joined the BRF, it seemed so ideal. With the 'love affair' of Charles and Diana rapidly unravelling for all to see, it seemed wonderful to have a Royal couple who actually seemed to love each other....and then there was the wonderful advantage of Sarah actually being a very competent horsewoman and able to ride out with Her Majesty, and also being keen to learn carriage driving from Prince Philip [none of which appealed to Diana....] And Sarah did not seem obsessed with clothes [a trait of Diana which many of the Royal Family did not understand - to them, clothes were best epitomised by the Queen Mother's famously quoted phrase 'The props'] And even at meals, there was Sarah tucking in and enjoying her food [and how!! with hindsight] whereas Diana was all eating disorders and calorie counting. Balmoral barbeques were right up Sarah's street - Diana famously loathed them... everything seemed so promising for Sarah at the start.....
I remember those days, Alex. Fondly.
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