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  #341  
Old 03-09-2011, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bethaliz6894 View Post
this man did his time. there are plenty of people that do change and go on the straight and narrow.
sarah needs to be given a break.
Pedophilia has the highest rate of recidivism and re-offense of any major crime. Plenty? Wrong. Try "next to no chance of going straight and narrow."

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Originally Posted by bethaliz6894 View Post
sarah needs to be given a break.
Why? Seriously, why? For close on thirty years, she has be given nothing but breaks and second chances.

Someone else here called out for empathy. Empathy for someone who guzzles greedily at every consumable and leaves others to pay the bills? "Put yourself in her shoes," they cry. I don't run up debts I can't pay, and I don't get drunk and sell out my ex-husband. So I'm not about to put myself in the shoes of anyone who does so.

"Global financial meltdown" to most people meant lost jobs, savings depleted, becoming homeless, and reduction to poverty. For Sarah, it meant nothing at all - she's back partying in the Caribbean, skiing the slopes. So really, what kind of empathy should someone who has lost their home back to a bank and is putting her children on the school lunch program so that they have one decent meal a day, supposed to have for a person who gets a pedophile to pay off her debts and then goes partying around the globe?

Sorry....anyone who compares Sarah's self-inflicted woes to the millions whose lives have been completely wrecked by the global financial meltdown is simply not making a reasonable comparison. It's like comparing a fender bender to a ten-car pileup - Sarah's woes being the fender bender, of course.

I doubt that even Oprah Winfrey would want anything to do with her now. I'm really amazed at the level of justification being fronted for a child molester, but I know that even Oprah has limits.
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  #342  
Old 03-09-2011, 02:35 PM
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I'm not at all comfortable with the idea of "forgiving" Sarah because due to her situation she was desperate. I believe that royal or not we should all assume the consequences of our actions. And I'm naively tempted to believe that Sarah is leaning on my side on this.

Sarah herself said what she did was stupid and will pay back (will she really do it is another question). Of course she can say that as another one of her childish attempt to manipulate the public opinion and get away with it one more time .

All teenagers have done that at one moment or another with their parents - telling them the exam was so but so difficult that when the results arrive the parents who were afraid of a total failure are happy with a less than usual results. But Sarah is no longer a teenager, isn't she?
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  #343  
Old 03-09-2011, 03:30 PM
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Because attacks on Andrew and Sarah, particularly, continue, it is perhaps worthwhile reflecting on all criticism as to their lack of judgement about Epstein.

Jeffrey Epstein was/is a highly-regarded financial whizz, a self-made billionaire, whose influence, friendship and stock exchange knowledge has frequently been sought out by others - President Bill Clinton; former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak; New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson; Donald Trump and former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers; Al Gore; Kevin Spacey amongst other high-profile actors, Katie Couric, George Stephanopolous, etc. His friends also include a number of high profile footballers, and Rosa Monckton, close friend of Princess Diana. Epstein has been a serious and respected player in the highest reaches of politics, of both major political parties, and, hitherto, an admired philanthropist. Harvard University has stated that it won't be returning the $30m which Epstein gave them, nor Princeton, nor the many high-level scientific projects he sponsors.

Allegedly, Epstein escaped more serious charges which would have attracted a 20 year jail term, for reasons best known to the federal authorities and the Republican US Attorney-General at the time, Alberto Gonzales. It's been noted, as well, that Epstein's high-powered and expensive legal defence team included, amongst others, Ken Starr, who hounded and berated President Clinton for years about an alleged sexual liaison with Ms Lewinski.

Co-incidentally, and allegedly, at the time that even more damaging charges were to be laid against Epstein, a major hedge fund prosecution in which Epstein offered to give evidence was heating up. To the best of my knowledge, Epstein didn't give evidence and the charges against him were, allegedly, drastically reduced,i.e. federal charges were dropped.

There is much which can be said about this entirely sordid affair but this is not the place. Suffice it to say that, instead of continually gnawing at Sarah York's lack of judgement and probity, consider that she found herself in excellent company, much of which was more worldly-wise than she, and certainly much more intelligent.

As for the view expressed that her daughters must be ashamed of her - not so. They adore their mother and have frequently said so.
  #344  
Old 03-09-2011, 04:00 PM
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I have the impression that Sarah left her debts for Prince Andrew's office to sort out while she went off holidaying. It's like she didn't care where the money came from or who had to do without full payment. It would have been more honest to declare bankruptcy when she realized that her debts couldn't be paid. There have been so many people who have suffered because of the economic melt-down. Really suffered, as you say, NaP.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NotAPretender View Post
Sorry....anyone who compares Sarah's self-inflicted woes to the millions whose lives have been completely wrecked by the global financial meltdown is simply not making a reasonable comparison. It's like comparing a fender bender to a ten-car pileup - Sarah's woes being the fender bender, of course.
  #345  
Old 03-09-2011, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962
I have the impression that Sarah left her debts for Prince Andrew's office to sort out while she went off holidaying. It's like she didn't care where the money came from or who had to do without full payment. It would have been more honest to declare bankruptcy when she realized that her debts couldn't be paid. There have been so many people who have suffered because of the economic melt-down. Really suffered, as you say, NaP.
In the US if you declare bankruptcy you still have to pay off the debt (change to law), is it the same in England? Maybe she thought her finances would become public if she filed but you're right she would have been better off in light of this scandel, I think
  #346  
Old 03-09-2011, 06:04 PM
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Whatever the rights or wrongs of Sarah's actions now, all of her financial worries are and always have been predicated on the miserable treatment she received from the Palace at the time of her divorce. Her settlement of $15,000 pa (now $22,000 pa) was insulting and offensive to many. Advice to her at the time to not accept the offer and to contest it was unheeded by her as she said that she didn't want to cause 'more trouble' for Andrew. This was discussed in Parliament and is verifiable.

Sarah's behaviour whilst married, was justly questionable, I agree. However, she wasn't the only one who was behaving adulterously. One of the most disappointing things about the whole issue was the breathtaking hypocrisy which was directed at her. One of her greatest critics, the late Princess Margaret was splenetic in her attacks on the Duchess: Princess Margaret, of all people, who led, arguably, the most questionable life of all.

The reality is that the Duchess, who'd lived within the royal family for 10 years and in such a style, was virtually discarded, homeless and nearly penniless. She was the mother of the Queens only granddaughters, at the time, and many people found her treatment, and the apparent expectation that she jet a job at Tescos, little short of disgraceful. To me, it's always been a massive blot on the standards of decency and probity in the family, which I've always found painful and worrying.

I feel compelled to defend Sarah only in the light of unfair reporting about her in the trashy tabloids and the willingness of some to attack her on the basis of this tosh. Those who have little knowledge of her history in the royal family should not believe everything which is written about her today.

For instance, who really believes that her 'selling' her husband to an undercover journalist was her idea, and hers alone?
  #347  
Old 03-09-2011, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
I have the impression that Sarah left her debts for Prince Andrew's office to sort out while she went off holidaying. It's like she didn't care where the money came from or who had to do without full payment. It would have been more honest to declare bankruptcy when she realized that her debts couldn't be paid. There have been so many people who have suffered because of the economic melt-down. Really suffered, as you say, NaP.
I don't have a problem with Sarah leaving her debts to Prince Andrew's office, because I don't think she was capable of sorting them out herself. But I do agree that she went wrong in adamantly refusing to declare bankruptcy under any circumstances. It seems that in her eagerness to avoid bankruptcy, Sarah was willing to let anyone pay her debts for her, and was willing to pay her former employees a fraction of what she owed them. It has really backfired on her now. And she is just as indebted as she ever was, if Prince Andrew, Epstein, and her other "friends" have been paying her debts.

I have to say, though, that I sometimes think Sarah takes the fall for scandals while Andrew somehow gets away because he is a member of the royal family. If the Duke of York's office was taking care of her financial affairs, then even if Sarah knew what was going on, I think Prince Andrew should be held mostly responsible. It's just too coincidental that he was pictured with Epstein in December, and shortly thereafter, Epstein was reported to have paid 15,000 pounds to Sarah's former employee.

Anyhow, I think once again people are too hard on Sarah. To me, she just makes huge errors of judgment, but I think that comes from being naive and somewhat self-centred. I don't think she's the greedy villain some of you are portraying. And at least Sarah apologized (whether it was sincere or not). I notice Prince Andrew hasn't apologized at all for his friendship with Epstein, probably because he sees it as beneath him as a royal.
  #348  
Old 03-09-2011, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Polly View Post
For instance, who really believes that her 'selling' her husband to an undercover journalist was her idea, and hers alone?
You know, I still wonder about this--and I wonder if we will find out someday that Prince Andrew did "know" (or should have known, in much the same way as even though he didn't "know" Epstein was a pedophile, he should have guessed). The reason I say this is because when I have watched or read interviews with Prince Andrew, he sometimes comes across as confident to the point of arrogance about "the job he is doing for Britain." I remember Sarah saying in the NOW video that Andrew "meets all these amazing people" and then "sends them my way." Is it beyond the stretch of the imagination that Sarah came up with the idea to sell access to Andrew because Andrew often tells her how important he is and that he can drum up business for anyone she might send to him?

I remember that in her autobiography, Sarah says that she received immense criticism for allowing Hello! to do a photo spread of her family at Sunninghill--but she noted that Andrew never came in for the same criticism, even though he was in the pictures and obviously agreed to the photo shoot.

I do think there is a double standard--one for Sarah, and one for Andrew and other members of the royal family.
  #349  
Old 03-09-2011, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polly View Post
She was the mother of the Queens only granddaughters, at the time,

Zara was born in 1981 and was and is the eldest granddaughter of the Queen.

Beatrice wasn't born until 1988 and Eugenie 1990.
  #350  
Old 03-09-2011, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Polly View Post
Whatever the rights or wrongs of Sarah's actions now, all of her financial worries are and always have been predicated on the miserable treatment she received from the Palace at the time of her divorce.
Hogwash.

She has made literally millions since that time. Millions - pounds or dollars - trading on Brand Sarah which was entirely predicated on her former title. Since that title came from the Royal family - letting her keep it in any form was a pretty hefty financial gain; the Queen, as the font of all such, could very easily have stripped her even of the style normally accorded to the divorced wife of a peer. Having been a Royal duchess - and retaining the style of 'Duchess of York' - was a very lucrative outcome for her. Who would buy anything from a mere Sarah Ferguson? But Duchess of York - that sells: and sell that, over and over and over again, Sarah did.

Restated very simply: remaining (or retaining) "Duchess of York" was a financial bonanza for the former Sarah Ferguson, that paid dividends for decades. That was her settlement.

So her financial worries are not because of what she didn't get - it's because of what she spent. And spent. "All" of her woes due to that settlement? Hogwash. Pure hogwash. Millions have passed through her hands, into an endless void.

So now she scrapes not even the bottom of the barrel, but down into the bottom wood of the vessel itself.

Oh, Andrew's right there in it; I'm not excusing him for any of this. He was up to his now-jowly neck in all of this and every step of the way for the past twenty-odd years.

Hell, I even have one of her books, when I was going through Weight Watchers. I paid retail, so I supported her.

Now? I can't even find a solution for her as I attempted to do under the Cash for Access.

Seriously - I wonder what the Duke of E has to say about all of this.
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  #351  
Old 03-09-2011, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Polly View Post
....

She was the mother of the Queens only granddaughters, at the time, and many people found her treatment....

Those who have little knowledge of her history in the royal family should not believe everything which is written about her today.
Perhaps her history has been revised, then, because Zara Phillips would take issue with you erasing her from the "history in the royal family."
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  #352  
Old 03-09-2011, 08:09 PM
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Does the person have to pay the entire debt, or a portion of it in the US? It's a portion here, but the person of course loses their credit rating until they pay off what the creditors have agreed on.


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Originally Posted by MRSJ View Post
In the US if you declare bankruptcy you still have to pay off the debt (change to law), is it the same in England? Maybe she thought her finances would become public if she filed but you're right she would have been better off in light of this scandel, I think
  #353  
Old 03-09-2011, 08:18 PM
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She was given money to buy a house for herself and her daughters. She needn't have got a job at Tesco's, because she had worked in the publishing field before her marriage and also had marketable office skills. She took a secretarial course before that, which is what many, many women have used over the years to get a foothold in the business world. She could have gone back into the publishing industry. Her name was valuable, given the jobs that were given to her and the way that she must have attracted investors to her various business ideas. Woman, ordinary women, have been successful with much less. But when people want "champagne on a beer budget", debt is what happens.


[QUOTE=Polly;1214350]The reality is that the Duchess, who'd lived within the royal family for 10 years and in such a style, was virtually discarded, homeless and nearly penniless.
  #354  
Old 03-09-2011, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
She was given money to buy a house for herself and her daughters.
Money was set aside for her to buy a house but as no house has been bought the money has never been given - it could still be given of course, but so far it hasn't been as it was earmarked for a house and Sarah has never found a suitable residence.

She was given a paltry settlement as it consisted of about 15,000 pounds a year, two trust funds for the girls (not for her) and the money to buy a house when a house was bought - effectively she got 15,000 pounds a year and nothing more. The rest either has never been given or is for the girls but not for her. The total amount was about 3 million pounds with the bulk of that for the girls and for the house.
  #355  
Old 03-09-2011, 11:39 PM
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Wow. That's less than $30,000 a year, American - right? That would never, ever happen in the Blue States of America. How long were they married? Of course, perhaps she settled for what they offered (that's the decent thing to do).

I know people in California who get temporary payments for palimony that fund their expensive attorney so they can get way more.
  #356  
Old 03-09-2011, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by PrincessKaimi
Wow. That's less than $30,000 a year, American - right? That would never, ever happen in the Blue States of America. How long were they married? Of course, perhaps she settled for what they offered (that's the decent thing to do).

I know people in California who get temporary payments for palimony that fund their expensive attorney so they can get way more.
She told Oprah she settled for less in order to mantain a good relationship with the RF (which means she didn't wanna fight)
  #357  
Old 03-09-2011, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962
Does the person have to pay the entire debt, or a portion of it in the US? It's a portion here, but the person of course loses their credit rating until they pay off what the creditors have agreed on.
It stays on your credit rating ten years so even after you've repaid it's still on there, I believe they make agreements for portion owed but depends on case- attorneys get paid first :)
  #358  
Old 03-10-2011, 02:01 AM
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Wow. That's less than $30,000 a year, American - right? That would never, ever happen in the Blue States of America. How long were they married? Of course, perhaps she settled for what they offered (that's the decent thing to do).

I know people in California who get temporary payments for palimony that fund their expensive attorney so they can get way more.

It was based on Andrew's naval pay at the time - not potential inheritance from his mother and grandmother.
  #359  
Old 03-10-2011, 02:08 AM
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Nothing suitable? I wonder what that means, exactly? I'd think that, in a place with as many buildings as the London area has, that she'd be able to find something.


  #360  
Old 03-10-2011, 02:09 AM
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I see. Thanks, Mrs.J.
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It stays on your credit rating ten years so even after you've repaid it's still on there, I believe they make agreements for portion owed but depends on case- attorneys get paid first :)
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