Sarah, Duchess of York Current Events 10: November 2007-February 2008


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Sarah on the outs.....

Questions regarding Sarah: It seems that she is the one person who will never be forgiven for her antics of long ago. Why is this? The whole royal family has embraced Camilla for God's sake, why not forgive Sarah? She is always purposefully excluded from all events. Is this because of Prince Philip? Sarah's ego? The fear that she will talk Prince Andrew in marrying her again?

Possible - my own opinion- Sarah tries too hard.

I read in a recent magazine that she stated that has always loved Camilla (best friends with her late mother) and that Diana was about to call her before she died, asking "where is big Red" although there has never been any reference to this in any of the "last days of Diana" info. William and Harry will not speak to her (again, odd as they have totally embraced Camilla - they "love her to bits" according to Harry.) She smothers her girls, insisting that they want and chose this - they want her with them because she is "so hip" (her own words) but she continues to be banished from every royal event. She never says anything but nice things about everyone royal - almost to the point of being too ingratiating. She doesn't have any family left - both parents now gone - so holidays must be hard for her.

Will she be forever on the outs with the royals?
 
I think the reason Sarah is not "forgiven" is because her behaviour is/was considered so tacky and crude it went beyond anything the BRF had ever had to deal with. While true Camilla had an affair w Charles while both were married to other ppl, Camilla was always discreet. She still maintained an air of class. From what I know, this sort of demeanor is very important to the RF. Camilla (and other "rebel" royals) wasn't loud and obnoxious. Traits associated with Sarah. Besides, she was the Other w whom a Royal was having an affair. Sarah was The Royal having an affair with an Other. And Camilla & Charles are looked upon by many as soulmates cruelly seperated by a family and fate they could not bend. Sarah was out having fun while her husband was in the service. And Sarah didn't just have one affair (with her true love), she had more than one. And she dragged her young children along for the ride, something that does not sit well w people, royal or not. Sarah was, and still is in some circles, seen as a selfish "me" person who abused her royal status to her advantage. And yes, she tries way too hard.
 
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You know what, up until recently I wouldn't have agreed with most critics of Sarah. I thought she was unfairly criticized during her marriage to Andrew for unncessary things like her weight, dress sense, personality, etc. Yes, she made some huge mistakes (the affairs) but afterwards she seemed genuinely regretful and was quite willing to take responsibility for her mistakes. I have her autobiography (My Story) and I started really liking her when I read that book because she came across as a fairly genuine person whose mistakes weren't so much premeditated, as the result of a complete lack of self-awareness.

But now, I think Sarah's changed for the worse. Low self-esteem and overly high self-importance are really two sides of the same coin--self-centredness. I think Sarah's always worried a lot about what people think of her, but when she was younger she always thought she was unworthy, etc. Now, I get the sense that she thinks she's entitled to everything and completely ignores anyone who doesn't tell her what she wants to hear. Sometimes she really does come across as a "me-me" person and that's disappointing because I always liked her.
 
Overly high self-importance--rmay286 you have hit the nail on the head, in my humble opinion. While I do not dislike Sarah, I readily admit that I do find her annoying! I think she rides her daughters' coattails and that she just really does a lot of things wrong that a 48 year old woman should have gotten right by now. I also think that she inflates herself hoping to win attention with the whole Diana thing--constantly saying things such as "I miss her every day"-- and "she was going to call me"--I say its shameless and the reason that Princes William and Harry won't really have anything to do with her is because they see that behavior and what it really behind it. Sarah flaunts her connection to royalty in a celebrity type manner and that is a no-no for someone who is the mother of two HRH's. She is really just too "out there" in my opinion.
 
What do Sarah's tights have to do with whether or not she is seeing this Norwegian tycoon? :confused:
 
Did you see them? They are hideous. I know my husband would flat out refuse to be seen in public with me wearing stockings that unflattering--not sure how Sarah's "friend" would feel about them either!
 
Yes I saw them but she was with her ex-husband Andrew and not the Norwegian tycoon so I don't think the tycoon was on hand to disapprove of her clothing choice. Now whether she will wear them when he is around, remains to be seen.

When I saw your article I was more struck by the fact that Sarah and Andrew seem really chummy and very close friends.

If I were the Norwegian tycoon, I'd be a lot more worried about that than I would be about her tights. Nothing like an ex-husband looking over your shoulder when you're trying to date a new woman.
 
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ysbel said:
When I saw your article I was more struck by the fact that Sarah and Andrew seem really chummy and very close friends.
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Very close indeed!! I've always wondered about their 'relationship'.
ysbel said:
If I were the Norwegian tycoon, I'd be a lot more worried about that than I would be about her tights.
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Too right!!
ysbel said:
Nothing like an ex-husband looking over your shoulder when you're trying to date a new woman.
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Even though the girls are (young) adults any potential 'step' would be under the microscope, officially. Any potentential husband even more so (unofficially), I suspect.
 
I doubt if we're looking at marriage anytime soon for Sarah; and yes, I think it would be very difficult to marry the ex-wife of one of the Queen's sons--but we're (not that we know anyway) not at that point yet.
BTW--let's say Sarah does remarry--she would lose her title, wouldnt' she? Would the Queen give her a new title like Princess Alexandra who is now a Countess? I can't see that happening, but who knows?
 
On re-marriage to a non-titled person she would become Mrs xxx, and that would be the end of the York connection in name.
 
jcbcode99 said:
I doubt if we're looking at marriage anytime soon for Sarah; and yes, I think it would be very difficult to marry the ex-wife of one of the Queen's sons--but we're (not that we know anyway) not at that point yet.
BTW--let's say Sarah does remarry--she would lose her title, wouldnt' she? Would the Queen give her a new title like Princess Alexandra who is now a Countess? I can't see that happening, but who knows?
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I wasn't thinking of so much of marriage at this point but rather that an attentive ex-husband would put many a man off from the simple act of dating a woman to get to know them better.

I know that the Queen of Denmark has given Alexandra a title in her own right but I can't see that becoming standard practice even in Denmark. With the possibility of royals divorcing and re-marrying more than once, that's a lot of titled exes dotting the countryside at a time when the royal families are trying to tone down their numbers.
 
jcbcode99 said:
BTW--let's say Sarah does remarry--she would lose her title, wouldnt' she?
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Some one who has a title doesn't lose it by re-marrying. As Warren mentioned, if Sarah re-married she would no longer be able to use " ,Duchess of York" as a surname. But Sarah doesn't hold a title so she has none to lose. Her ex-husband does have a title and while married to him she was the Duchess of York, which is a way of saying "Mrs. Duke of York".
 
The status of ex-wives in the peerage system is so confusing; but I don't think Sarah would want to lose her style as Duchess of York.
 
Sarah is still "Duchess of York" but she is no longer HRH The Duchess of York; upon her divorce she lost the HRH and the "The". Also, wasn't her legal name something like "Sarah Mountbatten-Windsor?" I guess it would still be her legal name unless she remarries.
So, while married, she was Her Royal Highness The Duchess of York and her full style was: Her Royal Highness, The Princess Andrew, Duchess of York, Countess of Inverness and Baroness Killyleagh
And now she is simply, Sarah, Duchess of York, meaning she is no longer a duchess she just holds the style? Also, in Scotland, wouldn't she still retain the style "Countess of Inverness" even after a divorce?
 
jcbcode99 said:
And now she is simply, Sarah, Duchess of York, meaning she is no longer a duchess she just holds the style?
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Right, she isn't a duchess; she doesn't hold the style of a duchess, but she does hold the style of a divorced ex-duchess.
 
For women, the easiest way to remember it, is if you were born with it, it is yours. If you married it, if you remarry you lose it.

I honestly don't know if Sarah remembers who Sarah F is, but she will always have the connection through her daughters. Even if she couldn't introduce herself as Duchess of York, she would probably introduce herself as mother to princess Beatrice and Eugenie.:rolleyes:
 
ysbel said:
I wasn't thinking of so much of marriage at this point but rather that an attentive ex-husband would put many a man off from the simple act of dating a woman to get to know them better.
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Judging from the way this Norwegian businessman is described, he doesn't seem like the type who's looking for someone to settle down with. Didn't an article quote his spokesperson as saying he was already in a relationship with someone else? Maybe he likes the fact that Sarah's close to Andrew, because it signals that she's not free for anything more than a casual flirtation, and that's all this man wants.

I don't really understand Sarah's behaviour, though. Andrew seems to date casually but everything I've ever seen/read of him suggests that he's never really wanted anyone but Sarah. On the other hand, half the time Sarah talks about wanting a man, and the other half of the time reminds everyone how close she is to Andrew. She complains that the royal family won't let her back in, then says she prefers spending most of her time in America. I can't imagine that Sarah is only hanging on to Andrew/the royals because she thinks she won't succeed without her title. If that's the reason, I think she's misguided. Title or not she'd still be a well-known face. Jackie Kennedy did not stop being famous when she became Jackie Onassis.

I kind of think Sarah wants the best of both worlds. I think it will be very interesting to see what happens when Prince Philip dies. Because I have a feeling Andrew thinks his father is the main obstacle preventing him and Sarah from remarrying. Whereas I think for Sarah, Philip might be more of an "excuse" (even if she doesn't realize this herself) to stay in this limbo state with Andrew. I think Sarah does want the security of Andrew and the royal family, but doesn't really have any interest in giving up the freedom she's gotten from being divorced. It goes along with her dressing and acting like she's eighteen. She's going to look increasingly pathetic if she tries to keep it up indefinitely, but I wonder what it would take to make her really let go of her past and move forwards?
 
I don't know, Russophile--she seems to really enjoy flaunting her children's status--and in the US everyone thinks she's a real duchess and is royalty--I'm sure she likes that. Let's face it, would she have been able to become the face of Wedgewood, develop home fragrences for Bed, Bath, and Beyond. or formed a signature line of Moissante (I spelled it wrong) jewelery (which is just fake diamonds)--if she wasn't capitilizing on being the Duchess of York?
I'm sure she'd like the financial security, but she seems to hvae that in check now. I think she loves the title--
 
JC, I'm sure she LOVES the title for what she can get out of it. If somebody else came along and offered more, with a prenup, say, I'm sure she would jump at that chance as well.
RMay, all this flip-flopping of the Duchess, is it me, or does it remind one of her Libra personality of the scales constantly dipping one way, then the next, then back the other way always searching for balance. . .
 
jcbcode99 said:
Let's face it, would she have been able to become the face of Wedgewood, develop home fragrences for Bed, Bath, and Beyond. or formed a signature line of Moissante (I spelled it wrong) jewelery (which is just fake diamonds)--if she wasn't capitilizing on being the Duchess of York? --
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Of course not and that is why she did it. She had debts to pay and the Duchess title was her one sellable commodity. The Queen seemed to prefer that than paying Sarah's debts.

I agree with the rest of the members here, for both Andrew and Sarah, its time to move on. I don't think Sarah would lose much right now by losing her title. People here don't know her as the Duchess of York but as Sarah Ferguson, Prince andrew's ex and she still would be that if she remarried and dropped the title.

She could still keep the Wedgewood, the Moissante, etc. The title was good for giving her name recognition, but now she doesn't need it anymore.
 
Sarah absolutely needs her title and she knows it. If she didn't, she would have moved away from it long ago. Sarah uses her daughters as commodities as well - she will keep them so close to her as to stangle them, all the while insisting that they want her acting this way - they love her being so "hip hop, mad" (a direct quote from her interview in the November Harper's Bazaar Magazine") and want her out bar hopping with them. She also says "they decide, I guide." I very much doubt it.

Sarah will do whatever she has to do to keep herself afloat. I admire her tenacity but her immaturity and clinginess are most unattractive, as is the hind end kissing of Camilla, The Queen and the RF in general.
 
judith14011 said:
Sarah absolutely needs her title and she knows it. If she didn't, she would have moved away from it long ago. .
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Why do you say Sarah needs her title?
 
Judith might mean that she has USED the title but doesn't NEED it, but Judith should really weigh on in this.
 
That makes more sense Russophile. Well I think she needed it at the beginning to keep herself afloat but now that she is financially solvent and she has her own brand identity, I don't think her endorsements are going to dry up just because she becomes plain Sarah Ferguson again.

Americans are a contradiction; we like titles, and they are good for catching our attention but I don't think we really put that much weight in them.

Diana von Furstenberg got people's attention because she was a countess but after awhile people here just knew her for her jeans.

I think over here, people don't care how you got the attention but once you're on the public's radar, you can move away from what made you famous in the first place.
 
But I don't think Sarah is going to give the title up lightly. She strikes me as somebody who wants her cake and to eat it as well.
Yes, I admit being gaa-gaa over a title. Maryhill is not too far from here and down town at the Embassy Suites they had called it the Multnomah Hotel or the Portland Hotel, I can't remember which, but they still have the Queen Marie ballroom, Marie of Roumania had stayed at this hotel when she came though. When we had a meeting there, I got the book out that they had there at the front desk and drooled over it. Nobody at the front desk had ANY CLUE who I was talking about. . . .
 
Russophile said:
But I don't think Sarah is going to give the title up lightly. She strikes me as somebody who wants her cake and to eat it as well.
Yes, I admit being gaa-gaa over a title. Maryhill is not too far from here and down town at the Embassy Suites they had called it the Multnomah Hotel or the Portland Hotel, I can't remember which, but they still have the Queen Marie ballroom, Marie of Roumania had stayed at this hotel when she came though. When we had a meeting there, I got the book out that they had there at the front desk and drooled over it. Nobody at the front desk had ANY CLUE who I was talking about. . . .
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LOL Russophile! Sounds like when I talk about royalty with my family.

Well if Sarah decides to hang onto the title at the cost of making a life for herself with the new identity she has created, then its her loss. Actually I think she would win out even more if she dropped the title and started pursuing the causes and people outside of the Royal Family that she has. She's reached a dead end with the royal family and a lot of people in America view her very favorably. In my humble opinion, her daughters are grown and she needs to cut her losses in England and make a new life for herself in the US.

Who knows? Maybe this Norwegian may convince her that people without titles can find fulfillment and happiness.
 
To be able to name-drop The Duchess of York will always be more favorable in any situation whether it's in Britain or the US than to simply announce Ms. Sarah Ferguson. She'll hang on to that title 'til the day she dies and the reaction she receives as The DOY will only enhance her desire/importance to do so.
 
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