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  #81  
Old 12-26-2007, 07:29 PM
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I don't know, Russophile--she seems to really enjoy flaunting her children's status--and in the US everyone thinks she's a real duchess and is royalty--I'm sure she likes that. Let's face it, would she have been able to become the face of Wedgewood, develop home fragrences for Bed, Bath, and Beyond. or formed a signature line of Moissante (I spelled it wrong) jewelery (which is just fake diamonds)--if she wasn't capitilizing on being the Duchess of York?
I'm sure she'd like the financial security, but she seems to hvae that in check now. I think she loves the title--
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  #82  
Old 12-26-2007, 07:44 PM
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JC, I'm sure she LOVES the title for what she can get out of it. If somebody else came along and offered more, with a prenup, say, I'm sure she would jump at that chance as well.
RMay, all this flip-flopping of the Duchess, is it me, or does it remind one of her Libra personality of the scales constantly dipping one way, then the next, then back the other way always searching for balance. . .
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  #83  
Old 12-26-2007, 08:26 PM
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Let's face it, would she have been able to become the face of Wedgewood, develop home fragrences for Bed, Bath, and Beyond. or formed a signature line of Moissante (I spelled it wrong) jewelery (which is just fake diamonds)--if she wasn't capitilizing on being the Duchess of York? --
Of course not and that is why she did it. She had debts to pay and the Duchess title was her one sellable commodity. The Queen seemed to prefer that than paying Sarah's debts.

I agree with the rest of the members here, for both Andrew and Sarah, its time to move on. I don't think Sarah would lose much right now by losing her title. People here don't know her as the Duchess of York but as Sarah Ferguson, Prince andrew's ex and she still would be that if she remarried and dropped the title.

She could still keep the Wedgewood, the Moissante, etc. The title was good for giving her name recognition, but now she doesn't need it anymore.
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  #84  
Old 12-27-2007, 01:47 PM
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Sarah absolutely needs her title and she knows it. If she didn't, she would have moved away from it long ago. Sarah uses her daughters as commodities as well - she will keep them so close to her as to stangle them, all the while insisting that they want her acting this way - they love her being so "hip hop, mad" (a direct quote from her interview in the November Harper's Bazaar Magazine") and want her out bar hopping with them. She also says "they decide, I guide." I very much doubt it.

Sarah will do whatever she has to do to keep herself afloat. I admire her tenacity but her immaturity and clinginess are most unattractive, as is the hind end kissing of Camilla, The Queen and the RF in general.
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  #85  
Old 12-27-2007, 02:43 PM
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Sarah absolutely needs her title and she knows it. If she didn't, she would have moved away from it long ago. .
Why do you say Sarah needs her title?
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  #86  
Old 12-27-2007, 03:29 PM
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Judith might mean that she has USED the title but doesn't NEED it, but Judith should really weigh on in this.
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  #87  
Old 12-27-2007, 03:35 PM
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That makes more sense Russophile. Well I think she needed it at the beginning to keep herself afloat but now that she is financially solvent and she has her own brand identity, I don't think her endorsements are going to dry up just because she becomes plain Sarah Ferguson again.

Americans are a contradiction; we like titles, and they are good for catching our attention but I don't think we really put that much weight in them.

Diana von Furstenberg got people's attention because she was a countess but after awhile people here just knew her for her jeans.

I think over here, people don't care how you got the attention but once you're on the public's radar, you can move away from what made you famous in the first place.
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  #88  
Old 12-27-2007, 03:47 PM
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But I don't think Sarah is going to give the title up lightly. She strikes me as somebody who wants her cake and to eat it as well.
Yes, I admit being gaa-gaa over a title. Maryhill is not too far from here and down town at the Embassy Suites they had called it the Multnomah Hotel or the Portland Hotel, I can't remember which, but they still have the Queen Marie ballroom, Marie of Roumania had stayed at this hotel when she came though. When we had a meeting there, I got the book out that they had there at the front desk and drooled over it. Nobody at the front desk had ANY CLUE who I was talking about. . . .
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  #89  
Old 12-27-2007, 03:54 PM
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But I don't think Sarah is going to give the title up lightly. She strikes me as somebody who wants her cake and to eat it as well.
Yes, I admit being gaa-gaa over a title. Maryhill is not too far from here and down town at the Embassy Suites they had called it the Multnomah Hotel or the Portland Hotel, I can't remember which, but they still have the Queen Marie ballroom, Marie of Roumania had stayed at this hotel when she came though. When we had a meeting there, I got the book out that they had there at the front desk and drooled over it. Nobody at the front desk had ANY CLUE who I was talking about. . . .
LOL Russophile! Sounds like when I talk about royalty with my family.

Well if Sarah decides to hang onto the title at the cost of making a life for herself with the new identity she has created, then its her loss. Actually I think she would win out even more if she dropped the title and started pursuing the causes and people outside of the Royal Family that she has. She's reached a dead end with the royal family and a lot of people in America view her very favorably. In my humble opinion, her daughters are grown and she needs to cut her losses in England and make a new life for herself in the US.

Who knows? Maybe this Norwegian may convince her that people without titles can find fulfillment and happiness.
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  #90  
Old 12-27-2007, 04:24 PM
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To be able to name-drop The Duchess of York will always be more favorable in any situation whether it's in Britain or the US than to simply announce Ms. Sarah Ferguson. She'll hang on to that title 'til the day she dies and the reaction she receives as The DOY will only enhance her desire/importance to do so.
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Old 12-27-2007, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Bella View Post
To be able to name-drop The Duchess of York will always be more favorable in any situation whether it's in Britain or the US than to simply announce Ms. Sarah Ferguson. She'll hang on to that title 'til the day she dies and the reaction she receives as The DOY will only enhance her desire/importance to do so.
Who says she needs to name drop? People know who Sarah Ferguson is by now and they either like her or don't like her based on what they know. I don't think a title is going to change that.

Its not like she was a nameless, faceless wife of famous Hollywood actor for several years such that going back to her maiden name would plunge her into anonymity.

Sarah is not going to get anonymity now, even if she wanted it.

The difference between Sarah and Diana is that Diana became Princess Diana in the minds of the public so losing her title would lose a bit of the public identity she built up. However Sarah in the popular press was not referred to as Duchess Sarah or as the Duchess of York half the time but either as Fergie or her maiden name Sarah Ferguson. As far as the press and your public image, everything is in the name and most people know Sarah by her nickname or her maiden name rather than her title.

I bet if you did a poll of nonroyalwatchers and asked what Sarah was famous for and what her real title was, most people would say she was famous because she was once married to Andrew and then they would say they have no idea what her title was. Even Andrew is known more by his title of Prince Andrew rather than his title of Duke of York.

I still say she could easily drop the title with little ill effects to her current lifestyle.
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  #92  
Old 12-27-2007, 04:51 PM
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I'm not talking about Sarah name-dropping. I'm talking about people name dropping about HER. It's more impressive if someone were to day, "I had lunch w the DOY" rather than say, "I had lunch w Sarah Ferguson." And I'm sure Sarah realizes this. That's why I think she'll cling onto her title w both hands. She's more "marketable" as the DOY than Sarah F., no matter how well ppl know her.
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Old 12-27-2007, 05:24 PM
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She's more "marketable" as the DOY than Sarah F., no matter how well ppl know her.
Well I admit that it got her the first gig with Weight Watchers but you really think the title of Duchess of York will make sponsors pay more money for her?

If the sponsorships are society based then I can see that but Sarah doesn't cut a good figure in society so I don't think she would be up for the more prestigious sponsorships.

For the sponsorships that she is more suited for, I'm not convinced that they are all that impressed with royalty.

I think she has an opportunity to re-create herself.
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  #94  
Old 12-27-2007, 07:13 PM
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Sarah "needs" her title because she is addicted to it and what it has brought her in life - both good and bad. It is still her identity, as much as she protests that it is not. No one would be that interested in divorcee, single Mom Sarah Ferguson. Her interest and persona are tied up with Sarah, Duchess of York. She does not allow herself, her daughters or Andrew freedom from this identity. Her constant and unceasing claims about the stability of her daughters is also very dangerous. They are still very young women and will probably make some mistakes along the way to being grown ups. Every article about Sarah carries almost pathological praise by her of herself or Andrew about Sarah and her great parenting skills. My opinion is - if you are out bar hopping with your underage daughters, there is not much to brag about. If you must constantly call attention to yourself as great parent and put yourself out there as a role model - be careful it does not come back to bite you. The Princesses always have been and will always be in the public eye - always a vulnerable place even if your mother is not constantly bragging about how wonderful a parent she is to you.

I also believe that Sarah's constant praise of herself in this area is a guilt reaction to her lack of discretion in her early years of parenting. Unfortunately, we will always remember that Sarah's affairs took place in full view of her young daughters, complete with photographs.
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  #95  
Old 12-27-2007, 07:43 PM
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Sarah "needs" her title because she is addicted to it and what it has brought her in life - both good and bad. It is still her identity, as much as she protests that it is not. No one would be that interested in divorcee, single Mom Sarah Ferguson. Her interest and persona are tied up with Sarah, Duchess of York.
I don't think she is protesting that her identity is not the Duchess. I do think that she can separate herselr from the identity the Royal title gave her. Without the title, Sarah still would have princesses as daughters and there will always be someone who says Sarah Ferguson, mother to Princesses.

But I don't think Sarah needs it; if she did then what about all the Americans who have made it here without titles and royal connections? I know that its hard for royalty watchers to admit it but not everybody really gives a hoot about royals and titles - not even in Britain. I was shocked to read the BBC readers reactions to the Queen's speech. They referred to her as a money sponging old hag that was living of the sweat of the rest of society. I think enough time has passed for Sarah to separate herself from her former life as a royal if she so chooses and apart from the money and exposure that she got from her early endorsements I think the Royal Experience has been a negative experience for Sarah rather than a positive experience. I thought at the beginning that she was a little careless but had a healthy self-esteem but after her stint with the Royal Family she looks insecure, unsure of herself and a little directionless. Before Sarah married, people often commented on her self-confidence; people don't say that anymore. I think it is because she married into a life that she could never fit into so she would be better off if she dropped the connections entirely...as much as she can with two princesses as daughters. She can still be friends with Andrew but I do think its best for her to move on.

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Her constant and unceasing claims about the stability of her daughters is also very dangerous.
Agree with you there. Beatrice does not look that stable.

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I also believe that Sarah's constant praise of herself in this area is a guilt reaction to her lack of discretion in her early years of parenting. Unfortunately, we will always remember that Sarah's affairs took place in full view of her young daughters, complete with photographs.
Well I actually think Sarah's intent on always speaking well of herself and the Royal Family is a reaction to some of the less than favorable comments that Diana made about the family. As a whole, I prefer positive supportive comments about your family rather than backbiting comments about them. However, I admit if the comments don't ring true then its better to say nothing.
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  #96  
Old 12-27-2007, 08:59 PM
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I thought at the beginning that she was a little careless but had a healthy self-esteem but after her stint with the Royal Family she looks insecure, unsure of herself and a little directionless. Before Sarah married, people often commented on her self-confidence; people don't say that anymore.
Hmm, that is so true! Sarah made many mistakes when she was in the royal family, but to me she seemed...not necessarily more "secure", but more genuine and spontaneous. She didn't think before she acted, but that was simply her personality. Now it seems to me that she thinks too much before she acts, and maybe for the wrong reasons. There isn't anything wrong with
learning to be more disciplined, but to me it seems like Sarah is just wearing a mask, trying to please people around her and prove to the royal family that she can change.

I also agree that Sarah isn't doing her daughters any favours by involving herself in their lives so persistently. One of the reasons I think this, is simply the way her daughters sing her praises, take her lead in everything, and declare she's their biggest role model. It sounds wonderful, but I'm not that much older than Beatrice, and I know that if my mother treated me this way, I'd feel smothered, and I think most well-adjusted young women would too. At some point you have to separate from your parents and even rebel against them a little. The very fact that Beatrice and Eugenie seem to accept and almost need Sarah's constant presence suggests to me that they aren't all that secure themselves.
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:25 PM
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Hmm, that is so true! Sarah made many mistakes when she was in the royal family, but to me she seemed...not necessarily more "secure", but more genuine and spontaneous. She didn't think before she acted, but that was simply her personality. Now it seems to me that she thinks too much before she acts, and maybe for the wrong reasons. There isn't anything wrong with
learning to be more disciplined, but to me it seems like Sarah is just wearing a mask, trying to please people around her and prove to the royal family that she can change.
That's true; I hadn't thought of that. If so its a shame because the Royal Family in their position can't afford anything or any one that does not have an innate sense of decorum. I find it interesting that the Royal Family actually preferred Sarah to Diana at first despite the lack of decorum. One of Diana's complaints was when Charles told her, Why can't you be more like Sarah?

I gathered it was because the Royal Family themselves show two faces: one to the public in their royal role which never makes a step out of place and the other face to each other and with their aristocratic friends like the Fergusons, the Shands, the Parker-Bowles which is a bit silly and not at all dignified. I remember reading about the Royal Family gag gifts to each other at Christmas and their contest to give the most worthless present (because they are the family with everything) That doesn't sound decorous at all. Or even Camilla's first comment to Charles about her great-grandmother, I thought was a bit out there to be talking to a prince but he clearly enjoyed it.

But then when they are out in public, they are the Royals and not a hair is out of place. I think Sarah was appreciated and affirmed in her private relationships with the Royal Family but in her public role, she failed to match their decorum and so I think in that case they were (understandably) harsh with her. After all, the royal duty to the public is their bread and butter and reason for being.

But I think the years of being in that role and not being able to fit in took its toll on Sarah and unfortunately Beatrice is showing the same lack of self-esteem that Sarah has. I'm not sure why that is unless it is because Sarah does seem to push Beatrice into a glamorous, sexy image and Beatrice is not a glamourous type of girl. If she goes that route, I'm afraid she'll only be laughed at and that will make her feel worse about herself.
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  #98  
Old 12-28-2007, 12:22 PM
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I think enough time has passed for Sarah to separate herself from her former life as a royal if she so chooses and apart from the money and exposure that she got from her early endorsements I think the Royal Experience has been a negative experience for Sarah rather than a positive experience. I thought at the beginning that she was a little careless but had a healthy self-esteem but after her stint with the Royal Family she looks insecure, unsure of herself and a little directionless. Before Sarah married, people often commented on her self-confidence; people don't say that anymore. I think it is because she married into a life that she could never fit into so she would be better off if she dropped the connections entirely...as much as she can with two princesses as daughters. She can still be friends with Andrew but I do think its best for her to move on.
This is a view with which I agree. It's within her control to specify how she's presented to the public in her commercial endeavors and talk show appearances. If she would drop the duchess connection and drop all comments about the royal family other than her daughters she'd earn a respect from me which has never existed. Sometimes I think if I hear one more time about her saying that the Queen has always been so kind to her I'll scream. It's been nearly 16 years since the separation and 12 since the divorce and surely it's time for her to stand or fall on her own.

It would be nice to think that she has developed a healthy self-esteem but I'm not so confident that is the case. Her pre-Andrew life with Paddy McNally didn't seem one in which she exhibited self-confidence or independence so I don't think her royal experience was the start of her problems, though she may have thought they were going to be solved by it. From the beginning I thought her clowning and making googly-eyes was a sham and cover-up for her insecurity and that her breeziness was somewhat forced. Like Diana the seeds of her "failure" were there before marriage and to blame only the royal family is unfair and possibly unreasonable.

Many have expressed their admiration for her as a "strong woman" "working tirelessly to clear her debts" (cleared long ago, by the way) "fighting for her independence", while it seems to me that as long as she trades on her royal connection weakness and dependence are the traits being revealed. I know that the argument can be made that it isn't she doing this but others who continue to highlight the connection. If she truly wanted to separate herslef and show strength and independence she could stop acquiescing.

And, ysbel, I loved your phrase "the Royal Experience has been a negative experience for Sarah rather than a positive experience" for it immediately reversed itself in my mind to "the Sarah Experience has been a negative experience for the Royals rather than a positive experience"
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  #99  
Old 12-28-2007, 12:32 PM
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Russophile, I love your story! I do the same thing, and nobody gets it. Ysbel--my husband constantly tells me I need a new hobby, and he just doesn't get it either.
As for Sarah--I was watching that Good Morning America thing or something recently and she was on (seeing the little boy who she says she thinks about daily,etc...) and she was referred to as "The Duchess of York" constantly within the segment. When she does an installment for the show, she is the "Duchess of York"; when she is in the papers for anything--charity work, etc.., she is the "Duchess of York", but on her websites she is Sarah Ferguson and the Duchess of York kinda shows up, but not quite like I expected. So, it is interesting--perhaps she is beginning to step away from the title--but then she uses it all the time, too. But, either way, even if she stops using or it or remarries, she will always be the mother of two Princesses.
I will say that I don't think she parents her daughters as she should, but when you look at her relationship with her own mother, she never had a good example, either.

Oh, and here is a link to her jewelery website:
Sarah's Jewelry
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  #100  
Old 12-29-2007, 06:28 PM
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Firstly, I couldn't agree more with the hi lited comments of ysbel's. I too think is it time for Sarah to move on and make a life for herself. I can understand the reluctance when the girls were small but now they are young women. Time to let them stand on their own 2 feet.

Sarah can still have a wonderful life of happiness of her own. I am not sure she has the self confidence to do that though. I believe that Sarah thrives on the attention that being connected to the British Royal Family brings with it. I think there is a fear of doors not opening without it.

jcbcode99--It was the NBC Today show. Sarah is a special correspondant for them. She shows up periodically with the type of story that you saw. Everytime she is on they refer to her as The Duchess of York. They might also say Sarah Ferguson but the emphasis is on using the title as introduction. Even calling her royalty on occasion.
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