Queen Elizabeth and the Duke of Edinburgh Current Events 17: January-May 2008

[Skydragon]

The anti-bearskin people have been around for a while. I know they ran around after her in Canada in a bear costume (It was a friendly bear, though. It gave hugs to little children.)

They whine a lot, but they haven't come up with an artificial fur that's anywhere near as resilient.

Considering the weight of the headgear and the fact that when wet that weight increases, the smell and the lack of protection they offer, it really is time for the MOD to stop financing such cruelty. Many argue that it is traditional, but tradition didn't stop them disbanding and amalgamating dozens of regiments that were also traditional. Shame on them!

They are purely ceremonial, none of the guards units wear them in combat

 

[wbenson]

Considering the weight of the headgear and the fact that when wet that weight increases, the smell and the lack of protection they offer, it really is time for the MOD to stop financing such cruelty.

The bears would be killed anyways. They are killed as a part of a cull to keep numbers at a safe level in parts of Canada, I believe.

 

[Skydragon]

The bears would be killed anyways. They are killed as a part of a cull to keep numbers at a safe level in parts of Canada, I believe.

Perhaps not in this manner though -
- The Peta footage shows black bears, which are not protected in all Canadian provinces, being gunned down after being attracted to areas where large vats of food are provided. Campaigners claim that many mother bears are killed – leaving 70 per cent of their orphaned cubs to die within a year from starvation, exposure or predators.

Some adult bears are not killed instantly and have to be shot several times or flee only to die in agony
Call for ban on bearskins in bid to stop the slaughter in Canada - Scotsman.com News

Much better for HM to be seen to condemn this practise and urge the MOD to spend the money on providing servicemen and women with updated equipment or at the very least accommodation that is in good repair.

 

[BeatrixFan]

But why is it law that we have to care? This is what annoys me about the animal rights lobby, they demand that they must be listened to or else. Why should the Queen condemn something that most people couldn't care less about? Especially when we know that if they could, most of the Royal Family would be out there hunting.

 

[Skydragon]

But why is it law that we have to care? This is what annoys me about the animal rights lobby, they demand that they must be listened to or else. Why should the Queen condemn something that most people couldn't care less about? Especially when we know that if they could, most of the Royal Family would be out there hunting.

That is very simplistic, It would cause outrage on here if I said, why should I care whether a child is beaten by it's parent or a homosexual is beaten close to death, or a white middle age working class man is stabbed to death, or a black youth shot. Are you saying that HM and the rest of us shouldn't condemn these either or listen to the groups that campaign against such practices? Just because you don't care about a particular cause, doesn't mean you have the right to try to stop those that do, from speaking out.

 

[BeatrixFan]

It's a matter of importance though. Child abuse and gay rights are sort of more important than a dead bear being used to make a pretty hat.

 

[Al_bina]

[snipped]
Much better for HM to be seen to condemn this practise and urge the MOD to spend the money on providing servicemen and women with updated equipment or at the very least accommodation that is in good repair.

Why should Her Majesty be bothered with this matter? The special equipment for military personnel has nothing to do with the headgear in question. Military personnel must be properly equipped regardless of expenses related to other ceremonial clothing. Soldiers with the famous ceremonial headgear worn by standing guard at the London landmarks are viewed as an integral part of the Royal image.

 

[Regina]

It's a matter of importance though. Child abuse and gay rights are sort of more important than a dead bear being used to make a pretty hat.

Well to be honest I don't see why gay rights are more important than a dead bear killed by such unhuman and cruel methods. We just can't compare different situations. Gay's rights might be important to gays but they know very well how to call the public and media attention to their causes... Animal's pain should concern everyone, not only some group of the society. Animals cannot talk or ask for help and I can't understand how these horrible methods of killing animals still exist. Just to give an example, every year thousands of cats, dogs and other innocent animals are taken off the streets of China, just to be shoved into tiny cages with 4 or 5 other animals and shipped for days without food or water.
If MoD decided to stop financing bear pelts to make the Headpieces for the guards regiments , I think that would be so great!

 

[BeatrixFan]

Gays are humans, animals are animals. And don't even bring gay animals in my face 'cos there's no evidence a penguin dances at the other end of the ballroom. Anywho, if the bears croak naturally can we use their fur then? Or is this a blanket ban on anything that looks good?

 

[Skydragon]

It's a matter of importance though. Child abuse and gay rights are sort of more important than a dead bear being used to make a pretty hat.

To you perhaps.

 

[Russophile]

Well to be honest I don't see why gay rights are more important than a dead bear killed by such unhuman and cruel methods. We just can't compare different situations. Gay's rights might be important to gays but they know very well how to call the public and media attention to their causes... Animal's pain should concern everyone, not only some group of the society. Animals cannot talk or ask for help and I can't understand how these horrible methods of killing animals still exist. Just to give an example, every year thousands of cats, dogs and other innocent animals are taken off the streets of China, just to be shoved into tiny cages with 4 or 5 other animals and shipped for days without food or water.
If MoD decided to stop financing bear pelts to make the Headpieces for the guards regiments , I think that would be so great!

You forgot last year's Chinese government beating all stray dogs to death as they didn't have rabies tags on them, regardless if they were rabid or not. But if you go to China and and protest, then you most likely will be thrown in jail yourself.
Can they make a synthetic hat? If it's so smelly, why wear it?

 

[BeatrixFan]

To you perhaps.

And I'd hope to the Queen who seems like a realist.

 

[wbenson]

We just can't compare different situations.

We can and do all the time.

Gay's rights might be important to gays

I think it should be important to every single human being in the world, but that's just me, I guess.

How many bearskins are even made annually? I can't imagine it's a high-need or high-loss item, so I don't think it would even change how many bears were killed. That said, I think if a high-quality all-weather synthetic skin can be made, go for it.

I don't think they should be focusing attention on the Queen anyways. It's not like she's suddenly going to condemn bearskins in her next Christmas message. They should be going solely to the MoD, which is where there letters to the Queen will be forwarded.

 

[Roslyn]

Well this is a potentially volatile little discussion, isn't it!

I happen to care a great deal about gay rights, but I also care a great deal about animal rights, and particularly their right to not be treated cruelly by Homo sapiens, which is the cruelest animal on earth I think, both to its own species and others.

As for bear hats, I am very, very, strongly opposed to the killing of wild animals to satisfy human vanity or merely because humans want their fur or their tusks or other parts of their bodies. The soldiers don't need these bear fur hats to keep warm in the field; it's only ceremonial. Should animals be killed to provide props for mankind's ceremonies? Definitely not.

However, if these black bears are going to be killed anyway because of government culling programmes, and if the culling is humane and if the animals are not allowed to suffer unduly, then if the MOD wants the bear hats, I think they should probably have them. It is arguable that it is better that the fur be used for a valid purpose than left to rot with the dead animal's carcass, but I'm not entirely sure I support that argument.

Should HM protest about them? Elizabeth II is a woman to whom tradition is extremely important, and who is not known for taking a stand about anything at all, so I don't think she'll say anything about these bears even if she wanted to, which I doubt.

And if any member of the RF is going to protest about bears, I would rather they protested about Sun Bears.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Exactly. If the bears are gonna die anyway then let their pelts be turned into pretty things for the gays. Best of both worlds. I demand fur hats for homo homo sapiens.

 

[Skydragon]

I happen to care a great deal about gay rights, but I also care a great deal about animal rights, and particularly their right to not be treated cruelly by Homo sapiens, which is the cruelest animal on earth I think, both to its own species and others.

Homo non sapiens seems more apt - non thinking man.

However, if these black bears are going to be killed anyway because of government culling programmes, and if the culling is humane and if the animals are not allowed to suffer unduly, then if the MOD wants the bear hats, I think they should probably have them. It is arguable that it is better that the fur be used for a valid purpose than left to rot with the dead animal's carcass, but I'm not entirely sure I support that argument.

That is the problem, they are not being killed humanely, many are left to suffer and many are killed and their cubs are left to die from predators and starvation. If these thugs were not paid for the skins, most wouldn't stoop so low as to entice them to a feeding area over a period of weeks, only to attempt to earn extra money.

HM is patron of the RSPCA
Philip is President Emeritus of the WWF

As head of the armed services HM should be ensuring money goes to supporting her servicemen/women, not trappings for the tourists.

Exactly. If the bears are gonna die anyway then let their pelts be turned into pretty things for the gays. Best of both worlds. I demand fur hats for homo homo sapiens

Now that would be Homo, Homo Non Sapiens.

 

[Roslyn]

Exactly. If the bears are gonna die anyway then let their pelts be turned into pretty things for the gays. Best of both worlds. I demand fur hats for homo homo sapiens.

You do make me laugh, BeatrixFan!

That is the problem, they are not being killed humanely, many are left to suffer and many are killed and their cubs are left to die from predators and starvation. If these thugs were not paid for the skins, most wouldn't stoop so low as to entice them to a feeding area over a period of weeks, only to attempt to earn extra money.

HM is patron of the RSPCA
Philip is President Emeritus of the WWF

If this is this case, and the killing is not being done humanely, HM should put an end to the bearskin hats. I didn't realise she was patron of the RSPCA. As such she has a duty to find out the facts and take action.

Let the homo homo sapiens have fake fur hats; there could be sequins involved.

 

[Regina]

We can and do all the time.

I agree we do, but we shouldn't. As I said, animals don't ask for help, they depend on us, and their suffering is very real.
There are many organizations and religions against gays rights but none is against animal's rights. This shows how universal the love for animals should be (imo).
As PETA UK site says "The skins come from bears shot in Canada, including many who are shot several times before they die. Some escape the hunters and bleed to death. When mother bears are killed, orphaned cubs are left behind to starve". If this is not a cruel treatment, then tell me what is it.
I think Her Majesty and MoD should change their minds, but I believe the Canadian Government is even more guilty to allow such a thing in their territory.

 

[Russophile]

Let the homo homo sapiens have fake fur hats; there could be sequins involved.

Highly doubtful, they have excellent taste, after all!

 

[wbenson]

I think Her Majesty and MoD should change their minds, but I believe the Canadian Government is even more guilty to allow such a thing in their territory.

The Queen has nothing to do with it. It would be a violation of the oath that she took at her Coronation to overturn MoD policy. If the MoD decides on big floppy straw hats with wax fruit tied on, then on that glorious day in June, all the Royal Colonels will be lined up on Horse Guards Parade in their new headgear. Perhaps Charles could have one with a replica of some organic fruit. Likewise for if they decide to make hats out of baby seals. She'll go along as her Ministers advise her to do.

 

[Elspeth]

We have a perfectly good thread in Members' Corner to debate animal rights concerns. I know this issue is somewhat relevant to the Queen's current events, but please let's not take this thread off topic.

Thanks.

 

[Gita]

The Queen opens new London Heathrow Airport terminal

 

[iceflower]

Pics 13.+14.3.2008

Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip visit the Tate & Lyle sugar
refinery to celebrate its 130 years of production on March 13,
2008 in London, England.

** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 ** Pic 3 **

And here are some more pics of their visit to the new T5 Heathrow
terminal in London, today, March 14:

** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 ** Pic 3 **

 

[antonieta]

Thank you iceflower for the pics.

 

[fanprincipesasturi]

Isabel II, en 3D | elmundo.es

 

[iceflower]

Pics 16.3.2008

Thank you iceflower for the pics.

You are most welcome, antonieta

I'm happy to see that Prince Philip made a visit to Germany today

Britain's Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh during a visit to the Queen's
Royal Hussars, in his role as their Colonel-in-Chief, in Paderborn-Sennelager,
Germany, 16 March 2008. Given the Irish origins of the regiment, Prince
Philip will celebrate St. Patrick's day 17 March with the soldiers, their
families and invited veterans.

** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 **

 

[Royal Fan]

Hope im still able to be out and About at 86 Prince Philip There will never be another like him.

 

[PrincessofEurope]

Newsletter articles about the visit
Visit comes at 'most promising time' for NI - Belfast Today
Monarch salutes battle-scarred soldier - Belfast Today
Queen meets McAleese as Republic visit 'moves closer' - Belfast Today
Queen arrives in Northern Ireland - Belfast Today
Right royal welcome for HRH - Belfast Today

for anyone who doesnt know what Queens university (where im a student but due to our easter holidays the students didnt get the opportunity to see her) looks like then here is a picture - for about the past month there has been frantic preparations ahead of her visit lots of painting, tidening up and gardening
http://www.ni-photos.jmcwd.com/queens-university-belfast.jpg
http://www.roundtowerlime.com/images/queens-university.JPG
http://titus.phy.qub.ac.uk/group/Jorge/AMA203/title.jpg

Belfast Telegraph articles
Queen meets McAleese ahead of first trip south - Local & National - News - Belfast Telegraph
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/article3532626.ece?service=popup&index=1
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/article3532626.ece?service=popup&index=0
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/article3532626.ece?service=popup&index=2

 

[PrincessofEurope]

some more pictures from 19th march 2008 in Belfast
Picture details with the Irish President at Queens Lanyon building
Picture details with the new stone in the Lanyon building
Picture details Belfast City Mission meeting the children
Picture details Vice-Chancellor's Lodge with the Irish President
Picture details
Picture details in the Great Hall at Queens
Picture details close up of her lovely hat

 

[HMQueenElizabethII]

Her Majesty has just shown out really lovely outfit and hat again. The outfits, she is dressing, really helps her look much younger. Hope more outifts will come by Maundy or Easter service this Sunday. Can you just believe she is nearly 82?I of course, cant.