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  #1  
Old 10-30-2008, 12:24 AM
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Princess Eugenie of York 5: October 2008-April 2010

Welcome to part 5 of the thread to discuss Princess Eugenie's activities.

Please try not to have the thread veer off too much into discussions of her fashion and appearance (which should take place in the Beatrice and Eugenie thread in the House of Fashion), and also please bear in mind our rule about the difference between criticism and bashing.

Part 4, which covers June through October, is here.
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Old 10-30-2008, 04:40 AM
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Just coming back on the point that Skydragon raised about the increased cost of security because of Eugenie taking this trip with her father - do you think it would have been better for her to be sunning herself in the Carribean instead?

The key thing is that the girls have 24 hour security cover, wherever they go. It is wrong for us to expect that the girls restrict their movements, because of concerns relating to incremental security costs. Either the government cosider it appropriate for them to have security, or they do not (and I personally do not think they really need secuirty!)

I have never supported the idea of Andrew taking his daughters along, but I do think they will probably learn a thing or two on a trip like this compared to flopping on a beach somewhere.

Are they or should they be groomed for future royal duties - not really, as they will have increasingly minor roles with the passage of time.
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Old 10-30-2008, 05:23 AM
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Unless it is intended that they are only arm candy for someone, there is little to learn at the evening receptions that she shouldn't already know. Andrew is after all not supposed to be there merely as 'a royal', but as a government employee. Sorry, you won't convince me that this is training, it is the usual extras grabbing Air Miles Andy, who never really went away!
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Old 10-30-2008, 05:42 AM
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Unless it is intended that they are only arm candy for someone, there is little to learn at the evening receptions that she shouldn't already know. Andrew is after all not supposed to be there merely as 'a royal', but as a government employee. Sorry, you won't convince me that this is training, it is the usual extras grabbing Air Miles Andy, who never really went away!
Aww come on Sky. Give them a break!

Oi! Hold on there. I didn't mean a leg apiece!
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  #5  
Old 10-30-2008, 06:42 AM
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Surely the Gloucesters and Kents don´t have 24 hour security? If they have, then it is time for another fuss.
All HRHs receive 24/7 security, not just Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie. Prince and Princess Michael of Kent are HRH they receive 24hr security including when they’re on private trips abroad or in Prince Michael’s case on business trips to Russia. The recent photos of them holidaying in Italy and Croatia, that was with royal security. It’s all very well to be critical of the security given to Eugenie and Beatrice but it’s the same for all HRHs. Diana’s protection officer Ken Wharfe after falling out with her was transferred to the Duke of Kent, and he wrote that was much calmer. Peter and Zara Philips, the Kent and Gloucester children don't receive protection because they aren't HRH, their parents do. It's unfair to be critical of the protection that Eugenie and Beatrice receive as their titles require it according to royal protection guidelines.
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Why does she need to meet national leaders, when Charles becomes King, and if William marries, she will be a minor royal. I don't think we can rely on her meeting many national leaders on this holiday.
This is not a new thing for so called minor royals. Princess Marina, Duchess of Kent took her son the present Duke on an official trip to South East Asia when he finished as Le Rosey and before he went to Sandhurst, part holiday, part reward for finishing school, part royal training. Princess Alexandra also accompanied her mother on overseas ‘training’ trips. Princess Margaret in the 1980s took her daughter Lady Sarah, along on a trip to China, even though Sarah was never expected to do any royal duties. And I’m prepared to bet that neither Marina nor Margaret paid for their children to accompany them out of their private incomes. The Kents and Lady Sarah also spent their time going mainly to receptions and dinners, just like Eugenie and before her Beatrice. Eugenie on her first day met the Premier of Kyrgyzstan
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Perhaps the Queen one day will send her as her official representative to some country of value to the commerce and prestige of the UK but I think she should finish her schooling before then.
Eugenie has already had more education than Princess Alexandra, who left school just after her 16th birthday ever had. Alexandra as cousin of the Queen still was sent off to represent her in various countries, including giving some of them their independence. And the same amount that Princess Anne had, Anne completed her A-levels as has Eugenie. Neither Anne nor Alexandra went on to further education.
Quote:
Beatrice was supposed to travel for her gap year wasn't she, but I think that fizzled out after her trainee royal holiday.

Beatrice travelled in South America before her trainee royal trip. Photos of her at Machu Pichu and in Argentina made the media. She travelled with friends. ( She spent time in the US right at the beginning of her Gap Year) She later travelled to Thailand after the royal traineeship, again Facebook pictures have just appeared of that trip.


Sorry moderators I don't know why the font is so small could it be made bigger? Easier on people's eyes! thanks


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Old 10-30-2008, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Oi! Hold on there. I didn't mean a leg apiece!
Thank you MARG, that's a coffee all over the place!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte1 View Post
This is not a new thing for so called minor royals. Princess Marina, Duchess of Kent took her son-----snipped----- Princess Alexandra also accompanied her mother on overseas ‘training’ trips. Princess Margaret in the 1980s took her daughter Lady Sarah, along on a trip to China,---snipped
You are however talking of a time when the Royal Family was still held in high regard. Times are different now and people, ordinary people are questioning the expense.
Quote:
----snipped--- She later travelled to Thailand after the royal traineeship
And what exactly has she done in the way of Royal events since her 'training', in fact what has she done, full stop!
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Old 10-30-2008, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Thank you MARG, that's a coffee all over the place!You are however talking of a time when the Royal Family was still held in high regard. Times are different now and people, ordinary people are questioning the expense.And what exactly has she done in the way of Royal events since her 'training', in fact what has she done, full stop!
What has she done..... let me think........actually I will have to think a bit longer and get back on this. Perhaps someone with a better memory and time to write a full list can help with this.
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Old 10-30-2008, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
What has she done..... let me think........actually I will have to think a bit longer and get back on this. Perhaps someone with a better memory and time to write a full list can help with this.
You know, Menarue, I'm thinking, too, and I'm coming up blank. Let's see there was that time she was checking the streets of London to make sure they were safe.....no wait, that was coming home from a club at 4am. OK, let's see--there was that time she went to, no wait, doesn't count--she was with her publicity hound of a mother---then there was that time she gave an official tour of the campus of her school--no wait, she was actually frollicking naked on the lawn---


Now, being serious for a moment....She, along with Bea, did represent Andrew at the Service of Thanksgiving for Diana, and last week I believe Eugenie undertook her first royal engagement and opened a Cancer Ward--and now she's off for two weeks accompanying her father. It is better than partying all night, I do agree. And, I think that she is making wiser choices at this age than her sister did--but, I do question the need for 24 hour security for a minor Royal.
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  #9  
Old 10-30-2008, 09:40 AM
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I have a thought, Prince Andrew will be having 24 hour security, would it be too much for them to keep an eye on his daughter too? Of course that would mean staying with her father, but then, she is learning, so it would be part of the course to stay and see how he does it. Perhaps they are already going to do this?
In my time there was no such thing as a gap year, but quite often young girls were off to what was called a finishing school in Switzerland, most of them had pretty fluent French when they came back.
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Old 10-30-2008, 10:04 AM
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I think how somebody spends their gap year tells a lot about that person. The unfortunate fact is that an awful lot of young people just use it as an extended holiday, and pretty much fritter away most of the time often going from vacation to vacation. I think that is what Bea did, and if not careful, that is what Eugenie will end up doing. Such a waste!
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Old 10-30-2008, 10:33 AM
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I don't quite understand how Pss B & E can be considered "minor" royals. They are the granddaughters of HM, daughters of a Prince. They are not cousins or in-laws. They are very high profile: 5th & 6th in line to the British throne. That to me does not constitute a minor royal. Of course they need security! In these precarious times, absolutely. I'm actually amazed that Peter & Zara Phillips don't have security. Now who should pay for this is another matter, but the issue of these girls needing FT security goes w/out question, imo.

Also, I disagree that B & E will fade away into the sunset in a matter of time. If anything I feel they will be called upon to represent the BRF as the Kents, Gloucesters, P/Pss Michael age and retire from public duty. By that time Charles should have become King and he (and his wife) and his sons (and their wives) will obviously be the Main Focus of the BRF, but that will only leave his siblings to carry on other royal duties and Pss Anne's children, not being HRHs, will probably not so who does that leave: Pss B & E. So I def. think it's good that the York girls start learning about international protocol and things like that. Giving them exposure to the movers and shakers they'll probably be dealing with in the future is a wise decision. And things like banquets and dinners and soirees are very important in this world, so even tho Pss E may only be attending 'after meeting' events, it's still a good idea.
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Old 10-30-2008, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
You are however talking of a time when the Royal Family was still held in high regard. Times are different now and people, ordinary people are questioning the expense.
Then, quite frankly, the 'ordinary people' should vote to stop funding the PPO's if that is the case. It is a bit unfair to cast blame on Eugenie for wanting to travel like any other girl her age just because of the taxpayer cost for her security officers. Also to accuse an 18 yr old of not working for the public when it was not too long ago that her cousin, the future king, wasn't doing anything either, even though he is several years older, is equally unfair.

The times you speak of were when royals, especially the female ones, did not go to college, but went directly into public service because the public was expected to provide for them for life in one capacity or another. That won't happen anymore, so now the girls need an education. Who was the last HRH born British princess to attend university before Beatrice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
I have a thought, Prince Andrew will be having 24 hour security, would it be too much for them to keep an eye on his daughter too? Of course that would mean staying with her father, but then, she is learning, so it would be part of the course to stay and see how he does it. Perhaps they are already going to do this?
Although his detractors will be reluctant to admit this, Andrew is actually working on this trip and it would be inappropriate for Eugenie to accompany him on these meetings. It is a little more complicated a relationship than a "take your daughter to work day" at this level. So sharing protection would not be feasible in this way as they could not choose which one to watch when they are in two separate locations.
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Old 10-30-2008, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by kimebear View Post
Then, quite frankly, the 'ordinary people' should vote to stop funding the PPO's if that is the case. It is a bit unfair to cast blame on Eugenie for wanting to travel like any other girl her age just because of the taxpayer cost for her security officers. Also to accuse an 18 yr old of not working for the public when it was not too long ago that her cousin, the future king, wasn't doing anything either, even though he is several years older, is equally unfair.
TPTB have said each time that Beatrice & Eugenie were on holiday with their father to be taught royal duties, I am simply asking what royal duties has Beatrice done since the tuition? How did being on holiday teach her how to cut ribbons, etc? I have no problem with either of them following in the footsteps of 100000 of youngsters, off on their gap year, to see the world, pick peaches, help in orphanages etc, but they all mange it without a couple of burly UK funded police officers to hold their hands. If people continue to see this complete waste of money funding the protection of these two girls, then they may just back the UK doing away with the monarchy altogether.
Quote:
The times you speak of were when royals, especially the female ones, did not go to college, but went directly into public service because the public was expected to provide for them for life in one capacity or another. That won't happen anymore, so now the girls need an education. Who was the last HRH born British princess to attend university before Beatrice?
I was replying to Charlotte1, who posted details of the protection afforded other royals from past years. My reply was that it was done because then because the RF were held in high esteem, they were honoured and feted wherever they went. Now you can see the younger royals falling out of nightclubs etc. When the boys mother dispelled the aura that many thought surrounded the RF, it dispelled the reverence. Whereas they respect (or should that be respec) people that are stars, celebs and the like and those like Branson, they do question exactly what have the royals done to deserve 'our' money to be spent on them. As the older generation die off, we may see a rise in the amount of people calling for a republic here in the UK.
Quote:
Although his detractors will be reluctant to admit this, Andrew is actually working on this trip and it would be inappropriate for Eugenie to accompany him on these meetings. It is a little more complicated a relationship than a "take your daughter to work day" at this level. So sharing protection would not be feasible in this way as they could not choose which one to watch when they are in two separate locations.
Yes Andrew is out there working as an employee of the government, so why take the daughter, why couldn't she have popped off on holiday/gap year without her father?
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Old 10-30-2008, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
TPTB have said each time that Beatrice & Eugenie were on holiday with their father to be taught royal duties, I am simply asking what royal duties has Beatrice done since the tuition? How did being on holiday teach her how to cut ribbons, etc? I have no problem with either of them following in the footsteps of 100000 of youngsters, off on their gap year, to see the world, pick peaches, help in orphanages etc, but they all mange it without a couple of burly UK funded police officers to hold their hands. If people continue to see this complete waste of money funding the protection of these two girls, then they may just back the UK doing away with the monarchy altogether.
I think you have created a bit of an impossible situation for them, then. Firstly, let's assume that Beatrice and Eugenie must have told their grandmother where to stick the royal duties that she wanted them to carry out if the girls are to be blamed for not undertaking any.

How will Eugenie's trip help teach her how to cut ribbons? I don't know about the ribbons, but as she is expected to participate in the evening events, she will get experience at that level. Just because she was born a princess does not mean that she has a lot of experience with formal galas and dinners with foreign dignitaries. She is only 18 and has never attended a function like this at her grandmother's court. She needs to get the experience from somewhere, after all.

As for the bodyguards, I'm sorry, but I just don't understand the extreme. Are you suggesting that all that stands between the UK's monarchy and a republic is a couple of security officers for the York princesses? If that is the case, then things are dire indeed.

What would be your suggestions then? Should the girls not go to university and just do local public duties? How about not protecting them overseas? What about not allowing them to leave the country altogether? How about Andrew taking a job at Burger King to make sure that it is not taxpayer money spent when Eugenie needs fare money for the Tube? Better still. Let's see a DM article about how the forever disgraced former Duchess of York now pays for her daughters' security out of her book proceeds because the UK won't protect two princess daughters of a decorated war hero. That should go over really well with the 'ordinary people'.
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Old 10-30-2008, 12:37 PM
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Oh yes, I had forgotten, they´re the daughters of the hero of the Falklands. We can´t forget that.
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Old 10-30-2008, 01:10 PM
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Nor should their father be treated as if he never did anything for his country other than drain the taxpayer coffers.
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Old 10-30-2008, 02:13 PM
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Nor should their father be treated as if he never did anything for his country other than drain the taxpayer coffers.
Right on, Kimebear!

And Sky, you make alot of good points but I do have to say that you can not compare the York girls to 1000 other students going off on their gap year w/out 2 burly bgs. The 1000 other students aren't potential kidnapping/murder targets as the York girls are. And while they were indeed born into a life of great wealth and privy, they also could be blown away just walking down the street by some fanatic who wants some attention or who's trying to make some statement. Most of us can enjoy relative (and safe) anonymity but they will always have to live w the underlying fear of being harmed just for who they are.
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Old 10-30-2008, 03:50 PM
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I think you have created a bit of an impossible situation for them, then. Firstly, let's assume that Beatrice and Eugenie must have told their grandmother where to stick the royal duties that she wanted them to carry out if the girls are to be blamed for not undertaking any.
I wouldn't for a moment think they said that, but the fact remains that they were probably not invited to do any 'royal duties', they are just not crowd pullers.
Quote:
How will Eugenie's trip help teach her how to cut ribbons? I don't know about the ribbons, but as she is expected to participate in the evening events, she will get experience at that level. Just because she was born a princess does not mean that she has a lot of experience with formal galas and dinners with foreign dignitaries. She is only 18 and has never attended a function like this at her grandmother's court. She needs to get the experience from somewhere, after all.
What evening events, how many have we seen her invited to? She would have been taught to eat at the table with knife, fork and spoons while she was school, if not at home.
Quote:
As for the bodyguards, I'm sorry, but I just don't understand the extreme. Are you suggesting that all that stands between the UK's monarchy and a republic is a couple of security officers for the York princesses? If that is the case, then things are dire indeed.
Now you are being just a little condescending. It is not just the bodyguards, it is all the money that people presume is being spent to give this girl a holiday, very few believe the royal in training line. Most days these girls put themselves in danger, by tipping alcohol down their throats until they can barely stand and yet they may be in danger from who exactly. They may be titled Princess, but they are not very ladylike.
Quote:
What would be your suggestions then? Should the girls not go to university and just do local public duties? How about not protecting them overseas? What about not allowing them to leave the country altogether? How about Andrew taking a job at Burger King to make sure that it is not taxpayer money spent when Eugenie needs fare money for the Tube? Better still. Let's see a DM article about how the forever disgraced former Duchess of York now pays for her daughters' security out of her book proceeds because the UK won't protect two princess daughters of a decorated war hero. That should go over really well with the 'ordinary people'.
They can do anything they want, with or without bodyguards. If their father seriously thinks they might need protecting, then pay for it! Even the police, last year said it was a waste of money! Disgraced forever DoY, where on earth did that come from? Decorated war hero, lets not go there please, I've known more deserving of a war medal and unsung undecorated war heroes than Andrew has had free meals, There are many decorated war heroes whose sons and daughters happily troll about without the call for protection.

The girl is getting a holiday with training on royal duties, lets hope when she returns from her adventures, we see her perform some of these royal duties!
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Old 10-30-2008, 03:56 PM
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snipped------- The 1000 other students aren't potential kidnapping/murder targets as the York girls are. And while they were indeed born into a life of great wealth and privy, they also could be blown away just walking down the street by some fanatic who wants some attention or who's trying to make some statement.
As has been shown by the events in New York, Pennsylvania, Arlington & of course London, anyone and everyone can be at risk!
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Old 10-30-2008, 09:00 PM
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I wouldn't for a moment think they said that, but the fact remains that they were probably not invited to do any 'royal duties', they are just not crowd pullers.
I disagree. I think that having them in the public might encourage younger citizens to take an interest in the monarchy if they have the chance to see a royal contemporary.

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What evening events, how many have we seen her invited to? She would have been taught to eat at the table with knife, fork and spoons while she was school, if not at home.
Princess Eugenie embarks on first Royal tour - Telegraph

"Although she will not attend any business meetings with ministers, she will accompany her father to evening receptions and dinners"

While I'm sure that she knows what fork to use during the salad, she will gain etiquette and protocol experience by attending any evening function she may be invited to while on this trip.

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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Now you are being just a little condescending. It is not just the bodyguards, it is all the money that people presume is being spent to give this girl a holiday, very few believe the royal in training line. Most days these girls put themselves in danger, by tipping alcohol down their throats until they can barely stand and yet they may be in danger from who exactly. They may be titled Princess, but they are not very ladylike.
I don't think you can call it condescension when I question how ridiculous the public call to action could become about these girls. In your own words they are not 'crowd pullers', they are not 'ladylike'. You quote that their protection is a 'waste of money'. Why not just lobby your MPs to abolish their protection and have done with it? They will never be on the civil list, so just end it already if the taxpayers don't want them. They don't have to lose their titles to lose their taxpayer funded goodies, and they could lose all the criticism that accompanies it which would be better in the long run for all concerned.

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They can do anything they want, with or without bodyguards. If their father seriously thinks they might need protecting, then pay for it!
Well there is a double edged sword if I ever saw one. In your opinion all of Andrew's money is taxpayer funded money already. In your viewpoint then, what would be the difference if he did pay for their security himself?
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Even the police, last year said it was a waste of money! Disgraced forever DoY, where on earth did that come from?
From the nine out of ten comments made in all of her threads on this board that are derrogatory in nature. The overwhelmingly negative tone of which are so off putting that members that like Sarah will not post there anymore.

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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Decorated war hero, lets not go there please, I've known more deserving of a war medal and unsung undecorated war heroes than Andrew has had free meals, There are many decorated war heroes whose sons and daughters happily troll about without the call for protection.
I know more people that live in my neighborhood that are deserving of being my next president than either of the two men that will win the position in a couple of days, but that doesn't change anything that either candidate has done in their lives or the privileges or risks that their position accords their families.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
The girl is getting a holiday with training on royal duties, lets hope when she returns from her adventures, we see her perform some of these royal duties!
On this we can agree. Also, if there was a tiara worthy event in there somewhere, I wouldn't complain!
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