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  #41  
Old 07-15-2011, 02:36 PM
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Okay...maybe its clear to other people but its not so clear to me...in what ways are the two Princesses spendy? Cause they like to travel to exotic jet set places? Other than the Queen and Prince Phillip (and maybe Anne, Edward and Sophie)...I can certainly think of other members of the BRF who like to travel to jet set places. Or does Charles skiing every year in Switzerland not count? William has certainly been to his fair share of expensive islands as does Harry with his annual trips to Africa? So what's the difference again? And if they become workers in teh private sector (and work like Kate a couple of times a week) and than have Fridays off...how is that different from Kate's parents supporting her when she was still taking those exotic vacations. And let's not forget that they have friends and family who have stuff that many of pay for...stuff like private islands, private jets, private yachts...they are not paying for any of that...so maybe it should be they like the good life? And again, how is that different than anyone else?

Again, it looks has if the York daughters are dealing with guilt by association.
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  #42  
Old 07-15-2011, 03:17 PM
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The outfits they wore to the wedding were estimated to cost quite a bit - particularly Beatrice's. 1500£ per appearance for a stylist is way more than most of us can afford - which is what I mean by spendy. This is not "upper middle class" behavior. The hat, which cost $2400 American did make money for charity - but I think any hat she'd worn that was similarly talked about in the press (regardless of initial cost) would have sold for a lot on eBay (no word if the deal actually went through to the highest bidder - that's still a secret, often very high bids do not go through on eBay, people get very excited).

She has worn several of those Treacy hats, and apparently he doesn't sell anything for much under $1500 each - and does she ever wear the same one twice? The outfits for the Royal Wedding (the several outfits, all told) were in the thousands of dollars as well.

I don't know about you, Zonk, but most 20-somethings aren't able to spend that much. As I understand it, the Queen has implied or said that the two girls should go make their own living - what I mean by "spendy" is that they are spending someone else's money, no?

It might be wise for Prince Andrew to teach them a bit more about money management, if it's not too late. I recall an article about how much he spent on the two girls, total, for the wedding. It was a significant sum. I think this plays into the Queen's decision to make it clear that the girls are not going to be working royals (but they still have the lifestyle, and Prince Andrew is paying for it).

I myself do not think Prince Andrew was completely incognizant of his ex-wife's cash for access schemes. I think he needs more money than he readily has, and his actions around the world seem to show that he is "working" to make as much as he can - and where does it go? Not all to philanthropy, that's for sure.

But good on Beatrice for wearing such a hat - it made her notorious and won a good bit of change for some charity (someone will remember which one).
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  #43  
Old 07-15-2011, 03:43 PM
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Actually if you look at pictures of Beatrice and Eugenie at various events (Royal Ascot, Trooping of the Colour, Easter and Christmas services)....they have in fact worn some of their Phillip Treacy hats several times. In fact, there are pictures of Beatrice wearing the hat at one particular event and Eugenie wearing it at another separate event. You can check those out at Ella Kay's Royal Hattery blog. So they do know how to reuse expensive items..and since we see that at certain events (i.e. Elton John AIDS gala, certain royal affairs) but not at ALL of their events...we don't know for certainty that they don't wear certain designer gowns again.

There are numerous certain events that members of the British aristocracy and the BRF attend that aren't reported. I have seen pics of Beatrice at certain events in Hello! that I haven't seen posted here (despite Iceflower's great picture posting skills )

But you are correct that Beatrice and Eugenie aren't like every 20 year old in regards to their clothes and lifestyle. But my point is that they aren't normal 20 year olds. If you follow the the likes of Petra Eccelstone, Holly Branson, Pippa Middleton, Tatiana Santo Domingo, Chelsy Davy, etc....they also were/are not normal 20 year olds. They are not like the rest of us who might need to work to help our families, put ourselves thru college etc.....that's not their life.

Would Beatrice be better off focusing on a career after she graduates? Should she not live the jet set life, etc. Hopefully she will come to a happy balance.

Frankly it just bothers me that these girls have been written off as just like their parents when at 22 and 21 they dont' know what their future holds. Isn't it the norm that kids their age like to party and go clubbing? Of course their verision of a club and vacation is MUCH different than mine. It bothers me when people generalize children of criminals (oh he/she is going to be just like her mother/father) when they haven't exhibited anything of the sort. Its not fair to put labels on people when they have dont' nothing to deserve them. I mean, look at the children of Princess Margaret and the Earl Snowdon.
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  #44  
Old 07-15-2011, 05:22 PM
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I agree that the BRF are probably being a bit premature in writing off the Princesses' value to the working monarchy. I used to feel they were worthless, but have since changed my mind on that. We don't know what they can do, as they have yet to try anything as adults. I say let's wait and see. I think they are "good" girls. A parent may influence a child's behaviour, but in the end they will choose their own attitudes, develop their own interests and live their own lives. They are fortunate that they have that choice.

As for the clubbing, it's what young people do. I clubbed way back and still like to do so, but only occasionally.

Vive la Yorks!
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  #45  
Old 07-15-2011, 05:38 PM
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I certainly wasn't generalizing - except to say that *all* rich and famous 20-somethings (royal or not) tend to be spendy in a way that the rest of the 20-somethings cannot be.

My two daughters could actually spend more than they do (their father, stepfather and grandparents have been willing to be indulgent) but have preferred to tough it out. I am rather more like Queen Elizabeth in terms of money ideology, I think that tasteful and economical are possible. However, of course their dad wants them to splurge - but I do think that he looks very very stressed in the pictures of the last two years, and has three females to support. He may feel a bit of guilt or something similar about bailing out Sarah, and is offering equal amounts of funds to his daughters (what dad wouldn't?)

But all three of those women should be thinking about some form of independence - Andrew won't be around forever. Unlike the Duke of Cornwall, the Duke of York doesn't have a regular income from his Duchy (I've tried to research where exactly the Duke of York gets his money; his own travels are often working visits - but I've not yet read anything convincing about where he gets his funds - aside from his mother).

Queen Elizabeth's expenses are of course her own business, but I do think she thinks about paring down the expenses to the UK (witness the stopping of the 500,000£ a year security for the princesses - I believe that's what it was).

The two princesses should certainly have fun - and it's great that they exchange hats and wear them more than one time; but spending 2000£ per hat, or so, still seems extravagant to me. It looks like at least 6 showed up in the last year - probably a year's income from some workers in the UK, no?

College age people need some budget limits, I guess is what I'm saying - whether they are royal or not (and I am equally critical of the brand new cars/sound systems bestowed upon so many of my students).
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  #46  
Old 07-15-2011, 06:00 PM
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Well, I totally agree that SOME people (really its not just college students) have no concept of money and certainly don't know how to live on a budget.

I think since we dont' know how much Andrew money has a lot of people assume that he is living solely off the Queen. We (and I) don't know so since this is Beatrice's thread we probably shouldn't get off topic but I do think that if the Queen Mother was like Diana (Harry received more of her estate than William) she made provisions for those who wouldn't benefit from the Duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster. I would think she made trusts so they couldn't touch the principal. So that would be Anne, Edward, Andrew and their children (Beatrice, Eugenie, Zara, Peter and Louise). Cant recall if James was born yet. She probably also took care of Margaret's children and grandchildren.

As for the cost of the hat...yes thats certainly a lot of money for me....maybe not so for Beatrice...but I look at as investment...when I first started working full time..I purchased a lot of work clothes and as the years went on...I just added to it. Never the big outlay.

But I think there is a lot we dont know...for all we know the Queen is purchasing some of Beatrice's clothes....she could have sold a lot more on Ebay that wasn't publicized. Not trying to bring up Kim Kardashian (and really more pop starts, etc.) but there are a lot of people who sell designer clothes on Ebay than you realize. And they are pretty famous.

But as I said before Beatrice if she lives a jet set life but doesn't try to keep up financially with the Holly Bransons, she should live well off. Her kids will most likely have to work. We do know that the Queen set up a trust fund for her and Eugenie as a result of the York divorce settlement. So if it was invested wisely and didn't get hit by the GFC she should be okay. Goodness knows what she received from the Queen Mother and the Queen when she dies.
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  #47  
Old 07-15-2011, 06:09 PM
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I don't want to take the thread too much off topic, but way of background information, this might help as background also to Beatrice's wealth


Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessKaimi View Post

But all three of those women should be thinking about some form of independence - Andrew won't be around forever. Unlike the Duke of Cornwall, the Duke of York doesn't have a regular income from his Duchy (I've tried to research where exactly the Duke of York gets his money; his own travels are often working visits - but I've not yet read anything convincing about where he gets his funds - aside from his mother).

At the time of the divorce of the Duke and Duchess of York, Andrew's assets were stated by the reliable broadsheet press, quoting Palace Spokesmen but on a 'Chatham House' basis as 1. His Naval Salary 2. His Civil List payment [subsequently refunded to the Treasury by the Queen] and 3. An Insurance Policy. Subsequently, it has been stated, although we have no way of knowing whether or not this is true, that it is belived he was one of the Grandchilden / Great Grandchildren to have received a legacy from the Queen Mother. Not all her Granchildren etc were beneficiaries if they were felt to have access to other sources of income in their own rignt [in due course if necessary] e.g. Prince of Wales, Prince William. Oddly enough, one of the ironies of the situation was that when Sarah was at the start of her post divorce career, her income from WeighWatchers, her divorce settlement [far more generous than she pretends] her photoshoots for Hello, her literary endeavours, her Waterford Crystal [as I think it was] was such that the Times even listed her in their annual wealth list - something Andrew never acheived so in other words she was richer than him at one point!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessKaimi View Post
Queen Elizabeth's expenses are of course her own business, but I do think she thinks about paring down the expenses to the UK (witness the stopping of the 500,000£ a year security for the princesses - I believe that's what it was).

The figure you quote is that which has appeared in the papers; actually the money for the security of Beatrice and Eugenie came directly from the taxpayer, not the Queen, and was in addition to the Civil List payments made to HM etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessKaimi View Post
The two princesses should certainly have fun - and it's great that they exchange hats and wear them more than one time; but spending 2000£ per hat, or so, still seems extravagant to me. It looks like at least 6 showed up in the last year - probably a year's income from some workers in the UK, no?
£12,000 I believe is indeed the average yearly income for those in the UK.



ETA: I am such a slow typist that Zonk's post appeared first.
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  #48  
Old 07-16-2011, 01:27 AM
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I don't see what the big deal is about the York girls' money. They are from a wealthy (and royal) family, so comparing them to (more average) women from the middle/upper middle class is moot. There are alot of wealthy young people out there who had the good fortune of fate to have been born into wealthy families (outside of the entertainment/sports industries, most rich folks in their early 20s did not earn the $$$ on their own). Look at that Eccelstone girl who just bought the infamous Spelling mansion for $85 million in cash. What is she, 22 years old or something?
With the royals I understand there are issues about what the taxpayers are footing the bill for, but in the case of the Pss' B & E's vacations and clothes, I think the funds for these things come from personal accounts.
So they're young and wealthy and live (seemingly) an ideal life? So what? They're lucky in many ways. Unlucky in other ways. I think the issue should be how will they use their fortunate circumtances to make a positive difference?
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  #49  
Old 07-16-2011, 02:27 AM
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Well, Beatrice has already made something of her life by getting a university degree, and Eugenie is following her sister's example.
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  #50  
Old 07-16-2011, 11:39 AM
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I know that the security money came from taxpayers and not the Queen. And now, apparently, the girls live with less security (rather than Dad footing the bill).

We don't know how rich they are, but I don't think Prince Andrew is independently mega-rich. Yes, the girls both have university degrees (thousands of people do) but the job market is not that great - it remains to be seen if they can pull in much income on their own.

My point is that people can have a good revenue stream for awhile (as Sarah once did) but not be able to indefinitely keep up a certain lifestyle. I merely hope the princesses have been taught money management. Time will tell.

In the meantime, people in Los Angeles are having fun imitating Princess Beatrice's fascinator in honor of Carmaggedon:

Carmaggedon Fascinators...
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  #51  
Old 07-16-2011, 05:12 PM
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I read years ago (before Andrew was married) that the Queen had set up trust funds for her younger children when they were very young. The figure I head was 1 million dollars.

I'm sure there were stimulations put on the money. Perhaps Andrew didn't have access to it at the time of the divorce. If the money has been left to grow, it would be a substantial amount by now.
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  #52  
Old 07-16-2011, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renata4711 View Post
Well, Beatrice has already made something of her life by getting a university degree, and Eugenie is following her sister's example.

I'm not anti-education, far from it, but these days many university degrees are the educational equivalent of a degree in basket-weaving.

Some students see their college years as a four-year party, and graduate with few substantial skills or knowledge, although they are still able to say they have a degree. They log the hours, so they "earned" the degree.

I'm not saying Beatrice's degree is like that, but let's see what use she makes of it before regarding it as a great accomplishment.
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  #53  
Old 07-16-2011, 06:09 PM
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Mirabel, you appear to be in league with the editors of some of our better British newspapers!!! [joke]. Beatrice's degree is in The History of Ideas from Goldsmiths' College, University of London. Some journalists have commented on its limited vocational use etc etc and have taken the view [perhaps unfairly, I don't know much about this particular college] that it is not scholastically demanding etc etc. Poor Beatrice, she can't win can she?

Alex
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  #54  
Old 07-17-2011, 01:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diarist View Post



Not all her Granchildren etc were beneficiaries if they were felt to have access to other sources of income in their own rignt [in due course if necessary] e.g. Prince of Wales, Prince William. Oddly enough, one of the ironies of the situation was that when Sarah was at the start of her post divorce career, her income from WeighWatchers, her divorce settlement [far more generous than she pretends] her photoshoots for Hello, her literary endeavours, her Waterford Crystal [as I think it was] was such that the Times even listed her in their annual wealth list - something Andrew never acheived so in other words she was richer than him at one point!
Not quite, D, it was Wedgewood china. I remember because Sarah was on Regis and Kathy Lee (before Kelly replaced her) and actually turned a cup upside down and stood on it to prove how strong the china was.
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  #55  
Old 07-17-2011, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renata4711 View Post
Well, Beatrice has already made something of her life by getting a university degree, and Eugenie is following her sister's example.
I'm talking about more than just getting a degree. Getting a degree is wonderful, but what are you going to do with it is the point I'm trying to make. And this isn't necessarily just directed at the York girls, it's basically a question I think everyone, esp. those born into priviledge, need to ask themselves.
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Old 07-17-2011, 03:17 AM
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Not quite, D, it was Wedgewood china. I remember because Sarah was on Regis and Kathy Lee (before Kelly replaced her) and actually turned a cup upside down and stood on it to prove how strong the china was.

Thanks Russso, actually we are both right: the Company is one and the same now - 'Waterford Wedgewood'. I can remember being in the USA when Sarah was graciously showing the correct way to imbibe from crystal glasses and tumblers. I have to say it was slightly incongruous to look at a tv clip of Sarah acting in a would-be refined manner....the London Times once described her m.o. as ' A creak of a (creaking) suspender [as in garter belt] followed by a noisy cackle'.


Slightly off topic - I remember Kathy Lee from my visits to the US - 'I don't believe I said that' used to be her catchphrase. And yes, it's true, fine bone china is actually very strong indeed, although I would not care to try it at home.

Just off to the Polo now,

Alex
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  #57  
Old 07-17-2011, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Diarist View Post
Thanks Russso, actually we are both right: the Company is one and the same now - 'Waterford Wedgewood'.
Ah! Thank you for the clairification!
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  #58  
Old 07-18-2011, 03:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
I'm not anti-education, far from it, but these days many university degrees are the educational equivalent of a degree in basket-weaving.

Some students see their college years as a four-year party, and graduate with few substantial skills or knowledge, although they are still able to say they have a degree. They log the hours, so they "earned" the degree.

I'm not saying Beatrice's degree is like that, but let's see what use she makes of it before regarding it as a great accomplishment.
Very few college degrees are considered practical on their face - for example, pretty much all of the social sciences and humanities. And that's universally accepted by students and employers. But unless the employer is in a specialized field (e.g., electrical engineering) it does not matter. University students are taught to critically think, research, write, etc. An undergraduate degree is simply the base requirement to get any decent job these days. Regardless of the degree, employers just want to hire a smart college grad with good common sense and excellent communication/people skills so they can teach them their business.

I would expect Beatrice to start in some low-paying (but well-connected) job. She'll be lucky in that she has extra income. Almost no starting jobs these days for college grads pay a living wage. (That's why so many live at home right now or work several jobs.) Most of the recent jobs college grads find are also "starter jobs." If Beatrice continues to work, I wouldn't be surprised if she changed her job a few times to find the right company, fit, pay and field.

And if she's like all of my friends, Beatrice will also have a quarter life crisis. "I'm 25, I have an excellent education but work in a low-paying job that I dislike, can barely afford to pay my bills, I have no idea what I want to do with my life, there are no better options, something needs to change but I don't know what." Okay, so Beatrice will have a few advantages with trust funds and what not, but if she struggles in a few years trying to find her place and meaning in the world, I wouldn't blame her.

Even if Beatrice pulls a lot of strings and uses connections, we should cut her some slack. The life of a young working college grad is not so easy these days. I'm not usually one to defend Beatrice or pay much attention to her, but it sounds like there are a lot of unrealistic and unfair expectations being placed upon her.
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Old 07-18-2011, 06:31 AM
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There’s 2 points I’d like to make, here.
Firstly, I think it’s perfectly normal that Beatrice, as a Princess, lives a lifestyle that is inevitably a long way above what most of us could aspire to. To expect anything else is unrealistic. And there is no evidence that she is spending beyond her means. As others have pointed out, her title opens up many possibilities of hospitality at the expense of the very wealthy (which many of her friends are), or of companies or institutions. Plus she has a trust fund. I don’t see a problem with any of that. Her position in life comes with responsibilities and with certain problems (press criticism, etc.), but also with a certain privileges and entitlement.

Secondly, on her degree – a 2:1 in History and history of Ideas from Goldsmiths is definitely an achievement. There are some dubious degree courses, but this is a proper academic degree from a highly respected institution. And whilst I agree that any degree in whatever subject is a must for graduate level jobs, I also truly believe that a high quality university education is worthwhile IN ITSELF. It stimulates intellectual curiosity and mental discipline, and hopefully sets off a lifelong interest in whatever you study, even if you never formally study again.

For me, Beatrice should be very proud of her achievement, and certainly deserves the chance to celebrate and relax after all her hard work.
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  #60  
Old 07-18-2011, 08:14 AM
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We will see what she does over the next few months, with her connections she shouldn't have too much trouble getting a position somewhere. She has had a great holiday so far so she either has started applying or should. I know some graduates who have applied for several jobs and the best ones will be snapped up quickly even in this sort of economy. Her degree allows her several options so she is lucky that way. I think maybe Virgin may offer her something but she will need to be careful because the press will have a field day if she gets something she isn't deemed qualified for.
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