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  #221  
Old 02-03-2008, 09:44 PM
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I agree with you princeslily. I've always liked Mary, because she seems like a mature, hard worker, strong and independent woman. But Kate is very different from Mary. I think Kate is very private but at the same time she just like the spotlight. I even prefer Chelsy over Kate, because Chelsy seems a geniune person with very clear goals, even though she likes to have fun and stuff, but it's very different(at least to me).
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  #222  
Old 02-03-2008, 10:41 PM
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To me Kate seems strong minded, very discreet and pretty intelligent. She looks good in almost all the photos I've seen recently and she does not get falling down drunk on the weekends in the clubs. All good qualities.
Keep in mind that in the Windsor famiy the male needs a strong mate and the female of the species is the one in charge. The Q and Princess Anne are strong, steady and opinionated women. The Q Mother was the core of her family, Queen Mary was made of very stern stuff, The Duchess of Windsor was the one in charge...the list goes on.
I also noticed that the posts pretty much seem to be the same sort as Mary of Denmark got before she married. She was constantly criticized for always shopping, taking too much time off work, getting a good job because she 'knew' people, dropping her friends once she landed her prince, and not dressng appropriately at the weddings she and Fred attended. There was a lot of snark going on that had less to do with reality than projection.
I think that William loves her and might well marry her in 2010. As I've said before, she might well move on and decide that being the brunt of media attention and speculation is too high a price to pay. I'm sure that has a great deal to do with why she is no longer working for Jigsaw.
If they do marry, I'm sure the opinion of her will change for the better as people get to know the real person. All we have now to judge her on is still pictures and gossip.
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  #223  
Old 02-04-2008, 04:59 AM
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She's only discreet as to not talking to the press about her relationship. She's not discreet about her life. I mean if you want to go to a concert, horse race etc... discreetly, why go into the Royal box?

She doesn't seem like a strong mate to me as she doesn't even have a life of her own. She waits for William to call her. Not very strong and opinionated.

She is intelligent, academically but that is it.

What great deal has she to deal with right now???
  #224  
Old 02-04-2008, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
Kate has never spoken to the press; anything that the papers print about her is usually second/third hand, so the reality really is, that like Mary before her engagement, we know very little about this young woman and that is very unlikely to change unless they do become engaged.
Hi Amelia, Even though I have shortened it, your post was very well thought out and fair. Catherine has never spoken to the press and as far as we know, nor have any of her friends. We did have the boy she worked with selling a story to the press, which is probably why she left the employ of Jigsaw.
Quote:
Originally Posted by princesslily View Post
Mary continued her full-time work right up until she was engaged. Kate has hardly worked since she left university and even her colleagues have said that she doesn't take her work seriously.
Have they, I can honestly say I have seen nothing of this in the UK press!
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Mary didn't work to a celebrity businessman ie. Mario - famous photographer and Jigsaw, she actually worked in a normal business company.
You can find Jigsaw on most high streets, it is just a fashion chain.
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Mary never shown up in skimpy nightclub type outfits like Kate, although an age difference but if you are comparing then I will too.
Catherine wears 'normal' clothing when going to a nightclub, hardly what I would call excessively skimpy. If you watch ordinary young women coming out of nightclubs or public houses, you will really see 'skimpy' and much of it in bad taste, nor have we seen her throwing up in the street, mooning or even her skirt wrapped around her ears, as is 'normal' for many young women.
Quote:
Mary didn't leave constantly to go on luxurious holidays every month. I remember counting and Kate went on 10 luxurious holidays in one year!!!
Can we have links to the "10 luxurious holidays in ONE year", or even the links to luxurious holidays every month. Quite simply that is rubbish!
Quote:
Mary didn't go by herself to celebrity only events. If she did, she went with her prince. Thus, not promoting herself to be a celebrity.
What celebrity only events has the poor girl been to by herself?
  #225  
Old 02-04-2008, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Little_star View Post
That's not quite accurate, several people have said that the moment she met William she dropped them like a hot potato. A loyal friend it seems she may not be.
Do you have any links to that info as I can't recall having read about that?
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  #226  
Old 02-04-2008, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Mary continued her full-time work right up until she was engaged. Kate has hardly worked since she left university and even her colleagues have said that she doesn't take her work seriously.
Did Mary really work full-time up until her engagement? I have read many times that Mary went on numerous holidays with Frederick before their engagement, maybe what I have seen is incorrect but I do remember that being brought up at the time of their engagement. Also I have seen it said that she only got the job because of Frederick’s connections, again this may be incorrect but I brought it up because of the similarity to what was said about Kate’s job at Jigsaw and using her parent’s connections.
Quote:
Mary never shown up in skimpy nightclub type outfits like Kate, although an age difference but if you are comparing then I will too.
Kate wears typical nightclub clothes to nightclubs. She is called frumpy, boring and safe in her dress sense normally; if she dresses age-appropriate for a night out for friend she is chastised.

Also, I was not comparing the two ladies; I am not a fan of comparing people. The fact we are all unique is a wonderful thing. What I was comparing is how the opinions that I have seen express about Mary and Kate seem, to me at least, very similar. I have seen Kate criticised for the same things Mary was and seen Kate deemed un-fit to be a future Queen like Mary was. The point that I was trying to express was that many who said these things about Mary did so without knowing much about the person behind the photographs, much like with Kate, and many of them were pleasantly surprised by what a wonderful princess Mary turned out to be (while also acknowledging that some still do not like Mary). I just found it interesting and wondered if Kate might surprise some of those who currently do not have a high opinion of her, that’s all.
  #227  
Old 02-04-2008, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by princesslily View Post
April 2007 - (2 weeks) Compassionate leave
What do you mean by that? What is a compassionate leave? Sorry, I'Ve never heard that expression before.

IMHO it's a bit unfair to count a trip to Cheltenham, Wimbledon or spending the weekend at you boyfriend's home a holiday. If you count that way, I'm close to doing nothing but holidaying....
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  #228  
Old 02-04-2008, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
What do you mean by that? What is a compassionate leave? Sorry, I'Ve never heard that expression before.
In the UK, compassionate leave is time off work that is being granted by your manager without being taken from your official holiday account. The decision if at all and how long is completely at your managers' discretion, usually compassionate leave is being granted in relation to serious personal issues, eg sickness or death of people close to you or other urgencies that require an absence from work. In no case it is being granted for leasure therefore it's not appropriate to connect Ms Middleton with this term when she wants to pay a visit at Cheltenham with Wills. I guess her "work" was staged anyway, eg Jigsaw had their share of advertisement and she could come and go whenever she wanted. Kate and a serious job - sorry, but that is a myth. Since her graduation she did nothing anywhere near what I would call a career.
  #229  
Old 02-04-2008, 10:09 AM
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When I mean holiday, I mean time off from work (not counting public holidays) not just travelling.
  #230  
Old 02-04-2008, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
In the UK, compassionate leave is time off work that is being granted by your manager without being taken from your official holiday account. The decision if at all and how long is completely at your managers' discretion, usually compassionate leave is being granted in relation to serious personal issues, eg sickness or death of people close to you or other urgencies that require an absence from work. In no case it is being granted for leasure therefore it's not appropriate to connect Ms Middleton with this term when she wants to pay a visit at Cheltenham with Wills. I guess her "work" was staged anyway, eg Jigsaw had their share of advertisement and she could come and go whenever she wanted. Kate and a serious job - sorry, but that is a myth. Since her graduation she did nothing anywhere near what I would call a career.
I believe that the only time the term “compassionate leave” was used in regards to Kate’s job at Jigsaw was directly after her and William ended their relationship. I think she left London and went to her parent’s house during the time off. Personally, I find it understandable due to the intense media interest at the time and probably the best for her and her co-workers.

I have never seen her time at Cheltenham or anywhere else she may of went during the year described as compassionate leave by the press or anyone else.

Quote:
When I mean holiday, I mean time off from work (not counting public holidays) not just travelling.
I hate to nit-pick princesslily but you did say "Mary didn't leave constantly to go on luxurious holidays every month". That would hardly describe a day of work.
  #231  
Old 02-04-2008, 10:49 AM
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Poor Kate. She'll never get it right in the eyes of a lot of women no matter what she does. I wonder why we're often so mean to our own? I don't really see men acting that way about each other.
  #232  
Old 02-04-2008, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
Do you have any links to that info as I can't recall having read about that?
Tatler hinted at it quite heavily once IMRIC, plus I remember reading some comments online made by a friend of hers. It was in one of the papers, I cannot recall which, so I'm afraid I don't have a link.
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  #233  
Old 02-04-2008, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
In the UK, compassionate leave is time off work that is being granted by your manager without being taken from your official holiday account. The decision if at all and how long is completely at your managers' discretion, usually compassionate leave is being granted in relation to serious personal issues, eg sickness or death of people close to you or other urgencies that require an absence from work. In no case it is being granted for leasure therefore it's not appropriate to connect Ms Middleton with this term when she wants to pay a visit at Cheltenham with Wills. I guess her "work" was staged anyway, eg Jigsaw had their share of advertisement and she could come and go whenever she wanted. Kate and a serious job - sorry, but that is a myth. Since her graduation she did nothing anywhere near what I would call a career.
The compassionate leave was a week or so spent at her parents home after the break up with William. She would have been advised to absent herself from work, because of the overwhelming media scrum and questioning of her work colleagues. Compassionate leave is not normally paid at the full rate.

The extra day off to go to the races had nothing to do with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by princesslily View Post
When I mean holiday, I mean time off from work (not counting public holidays) not just travelling
Quote:
Originally Posted by princesslily View Post
Mary didn't leave constantly to go on luxurious holidays every month. I remember counting and Kate went on 10 luxurious holidays in one year!!!
No you said luxury holidays. As Catherine allegedly only worked part time, a long weekend would not have involved time off.
  #234  
Old 02-04-2008, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
The compassionate leave was a week or so spent at her parents home after the break up with William. She would have been advised to absent herself from work, because of the overwhelming media scrum and questioning of her work colleagues. Compassionate leave is not normally paid at the full rate.
I agree on the first part - it's fine to grant compassionate leave on the occasion of a split, especially in this case with all the media frenzy.

Second part - no. Compassionate leave is usually being paid at full rate.

I have to stress that these rules apply for serious work relationships and I doubt that Kate has ever worked under such rules applying for her.
  #235  
Old 02-04-2008, 01:52 PM
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I would guess that all the harsh judgments are due to the fact that people have very high expectations for future Princesses and possible Queens. While I can understand that a well educated woman with an impressive CV who's fluent in several languages, looks gorgeous, has impeccable manners and possibly an aristocratic background would be the perfect Princess, I think it's important to keep in mind that these women are not simply applying for a job, they'll be the future wife of the men concerned. Hence the main reason for the men involved to chose them as bride should be whether they love them and can spend the rest of their lives with these women. The rest, IMO, can be learned if the women know what they are in for and are given the necessary help and guidance. Therefore I wouldn't rule Kate out as a suitable Princess who might do a good job in The Firm. If William and the rest of the Royal Family help her to find her place and guide her, she'll manage just fine, like all Crown Princesses in Europe have so far. Royal life surely is a very damanding matter but it's hardly rocket science a reasonably intelligent young woman couldn't learn and adapt to. I don't think a Royal marriage ever failed because the bride wasn't up to par with Royal duties. Problems that arose, were usually rooted in private marriage difficulties. The key would be a stable loving relationship between the Royal spouses and whether that is the case between William and Kate can only be answered by them really.
  #236  
Old 02-04-2008, 03:14 PM
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The "compassionate leave" nonsense after the breakup stories was so invented. The Daily Mail even worded it as a mere possibility, and how is going to Cheltenham to see a horse race counted as a holiday????
  #237  
Old 02-04-2008, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Second part - no. Compassionate leave is usually being paid at full rate.
As you will see from just these two snippets.... 1. Compassionate leave is not given/paid for non relatives (breaking up with a boyfriend doesn't count as CL). 2. If you are unable to take it from your allowance, you are only paid for 3 days.
Quote:
'Compassionate leave' is a term used to describe time off work to cope with personal circumstances. There is a statutory right called 'time off for dependants' which gives you the right to unpaid time off in some circumstances
Time off for dependants (compassionate leave) : Directgov - Employment

Quote:
Paid leave, usually within a maximum of 3 days, may be granted to enable an employee to deal with difficult domestic or family circumstances such as:
Serious damage to home (e.g. fire or flood); - Serious illness of a family member
Special / Compassionate Leave - Human Resources - Canterbury Christ Church University
  #238  
Old 02-04-2008, 07:02 PM
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Very well said, Isana. I agree with you on all points.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Isana View Post
I would guess that all the harsh judgments are due to the fact that people have very high expectations for future Princesses and possible Queens. While I can understand that a well educated woman with an impressive CV who's fluent in several languages, looks gorgeous, has impeccable manners and possibly an aristocratic background would be the perfect Princess, I think it's important to keep in mind that these women are not simply applying for a job, they'll be the future wife of the men concerned. Hence the main reason for the men involved to chose them as bride should be whether they love them and can spend the rest of their lives with these women. The rest, IMO, can be learned if the women know what they are in for and are given the necessary help and guidance. Therefore I wouldn't rule Kate out as a suitable Princess who might do a good job in The Firm. If William and the rest of the Royal Family help her to find her place and guide her, she'll manage just fine, like all Crown Princesses in Europe have so far. Royal life surely is a very damanding matter but it's hardly rocket science a reasonably intelligent young woman couldn't learn and adapt to. I don't think a Royal marriage ever failed because the bride wasn't up to par with Royal duties. Problems that arose, were usually rooted in private marriage difficulties. The key would be a stable loving relationship between the Royal spouses and whether that is the case between William and Kate can only be answered by them really.
  #239  
Old 02-04-2008, 11:02 PM
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Of course Ms. Middleton is Prince William's girlfriend -- this notion that she is somehow a "beard" is quite silly. And frankly, they seem to be reasonably well-suited to one another. They are both fairly attractive, they've known each other for years and share an age group and various aspects of cultural experience with each other and with their contemporaries. Neither is an intellectual powerhouse or remarkably ambitious; but then, intellect and ambition are clearly not great assets where the British royal family is concerned. Ms. Middleton doesn't seem to possess much of a work ethic, but Prince William isn't exactly setting the world on fire either. Middleton does, at least, appear to be admirably discreet and poised, which is all she may need to be.

In other words, they have far more going for them than did Diana and Charles, a couple of vastly different ages and cultural experiences who barely knew one another when they became engaged after five months of "dating" and couldn't possibly have been "in love." (Diana's claims notwithstanding.) I don't particularly care whether they marry or not, but they're far better off than William's parents were.
  #240  
Old 02-05-2008, 10:09 AM
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{response to deleted post removed - Elspeth}

On January 31, it was Kate's mother's birthday. Kate looked lovely, in my opinion.
Kate Middleton and family out celebrating her mother's 53rd birthday, London, Britain - 31 Jan 2008

Kate 1
Kate 2
Kate and Pippa
Kate and Carole (Kate's mother)
James Middleton (Kate's brother)
Michael Middleton (Kate's father)
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