Prince William and Kate Middleton current events 1: October-November 2007

[Duchess]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

. Diana never had to apply for or be interviewed for a job

don't forget diana was a part time nanny for the robertson's and would have had to be interviewed by the agency upon applying for work and by the robertson's to determine whether or not she was suitable. unless, of course, child minding agencies in the UK don't interview or do background checks?

Originally Posted by Skydragon

Working in a childrens nursery, she was a very low in the pecking order assistant, probably only allowed to change nappies and help play with the children. Neither of which shows a 'working background', IMO.

you don't consider these repsonsibilities important? i can tell you that as a working mother that's had to have child care these things are absolutely important and i think you'd be hard pressed to find a mother in the same position that would disagree. i'm no diana fanatic but i think her experience in a children's nursery was "working background" and she was smart enough and lucky enough to have found employment in an area that she obviously loved and excelled at.

as for catherine not applying for work, i'm sure she could have just about any job she wanted at this point as long as she was qualified but there are lots of people inthe world that get jobs through connections and are lucky enough not to have go through the whole application/interview process.

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

Do you honestly think that Kate has applied for the Jigsaw job in the same way Joe Average would have done and that the did the same work any other assistant buyer does in this tough business?

Yes I believe she had to apply to be considered, they are always recruiting and the standard practise is to send your CV, stating education and interests. She may have had the luxury of an interview at their home, but she still probably had to apply.

If you call Diana's job arranged to prepare her for a life as wife and mother than I would certainly call Kate's job arranged to accommodate to Will's needs and to be on stand by for leasure activities.

I didn't actually say it was arranged to prepare Diana for life as a wife and mother (In fact it should have trained her on being a wife and mother). As I am sure you are aware, even if Diana had married as her sisters did, she would not have been a full time mother and housewife, she would have had staff.

What you are forgetting with your statement that 'it was to accommodate Will's needs and to be on standby for leisure activities, is that William is an army officer, as well as a prince'. He, just like every other Officer, has to apply for and be granted time off. If he wants to take 2 weeks in February, he would have to have applied now, so unless he likes to 'spring' little holiday plans on Catherine, she too would have to have asked for the time off and possibly worked 'in lieu' before hand. I can't work out exactly what you mean by 'Will's needs'.

[georgiea]

Originally Posted by Duchess

you don't consider these repsonsibilities important? i can tell you that as a working mother that's had to have child care these things are absolutely important and i think you'd be hard pressed to find a mother in the same position that would disagree. i'm no diana fanatic but i think her experience in a children's nursery was "working background" and she was smart enough and lucky enough to have found employment in an area that she obviously loved and excelled at.

Duchess as usual I agree with you. And if people will read my post before yours. I think that both William and Harry missed this loving, nuturing mother after she died and look for that in their girlfriends.

[Luv2Cruise]

What Diana did was fine and fit with her experience as she, an upper class or aristocrat (I can't keep those terms straight) did not have a formal post-graduate degree.

Kate to her detriment has kept the world guessing regarding her professional activities. Unfortunately for her, because no one knows what she is doing with her time (nor do some of us feel the need to know as if we are the hall monitor) the press will attribute every picture of her to "shopping," when she could very well be on a completely different errand with a stop in a shop thrown in.

Again I believe she and William know and have known for a long time now that eventually they will marry. And Kate (with the knowledge and approval of William and her parents) must have made a decision not to seek regular employment in order to enjoy her few carefree years before sacrificing her freedom to do as she pleases before joining William's family and working and being on display until the day she dies -- and beyond even. I don't begrudge her this time. It is her time, time she will never have again if she marries William. Nor do I begrudge anyone their millions, whether or not earned or inherited.

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by Duchess

don't forget diana was a part time nanny for the robertson's and would have had to be interviewed by the agency upon applying for work and by the robertson's to determine whether or not she was suitable. unless, of course, child minding agencies in the UK don't interview or do background checks?

On the part time basis that she worked, no she would have probably got the job through friends of her sister. The agencies back then were either questionable to say the least or the main players Norland and Kensington insisted on full training, which Diana never had.

you don't consider these repsonsibilities important?

I consider stay at home mothers and fathers to be the absolute backbone of any society and they do one of the most important and hardest jobs going.

[Duke of Marmalade]

[quote=Skydragon;693768]

I can't work out exactly what you mean by 'Will's needs'.

= accommodate his schedule, be it duty (eg Cheltenham) or not ( eg clubbing, vacation etc)

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by Luv2Cruise

What Diana did was fine and fit with her experience as she, an upper class or aristocrat (I can't keep those terms straight) did not have a formal post-graduate degree.......

Diana was from a (titled) aristocratic family, which in the UK is seen as being at the top of the heap of the upper classes.

It is her time, time she will never have again if she marries William. Nor do I begrudge anyone their millions, whether or not earned or inherited.

You are right, it is her time, time that will never come again, whether she marries William or not. Why should we expect her to live a certain way, for the POSSIBILTY that she might marry into the royal family. What if she has already decided that William may be a fun friend or boyfriend but is not husband material?

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

=
accommodate his schedule, be it duty (eg Cheltenham) or not ( eg clubbing, vacation etc)

But we all have to do that, whether as boy/girlfriend, wife/husband, mother/father.

[Luv2Cruise]

Good point. And thanks for the explanation of the terms. We have nothing near this in the States! Which explains my curiosity/fascination.

[Luv2Cruise]

Originally Posted by Elspeth

Maybe one who wants her daughter to have a life of her own and not one where she becomes public property.

I said "proud" not necessarily wanting or scheming for their daughter to become part of the royal family.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

But we all have to do that, whether as boy/girlfriend, wife/husband, mother/father.

I wouldn't say "have to" but "want to". And sometimes a job does not allow people to accommodate other people's schedules, even if they want to; unless they are employed by Jigsaw, of course

[Duchess]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

On the part time basis that she worked, no she would have probably got the job through friends of her sister.

the agencies/kindergarten that she worked for may have been suggested by friends of her sister but she still would have had to apply for the position.

Originally Posted by Skydragon

The agencies back then were either questionable to say the least or the main players Norland and Kensington insisted on full training, which Diana never had.

it's highly unlikely that a family such are the roberston's would register with a "questionable" agency. as for training, since diana's responsibilities involved the smaller children and, as you say changing nappies she probably didn't need much formal training for that.

Originally Posted by Skydragon

I consider stay at home mothers and fathers to be the absolute backbone of any society and they do one of the most important and hardest jobs going.

but what you implied is that the responsibilities she had were unimportant and not considered a "working background". parents, at least most parents that play a hands-on role in the lives of their children, do these very important things and since diana was being paid a wage for doing it then it is considered a working background.

Originally Posted by Skydragon

...I believe she had to apply to be considered, they are always recruiting and the standard practise is to send your CV, stating education and interests. She may have had the luxury of an interview at their home, but she still probably had to apply.

skydragon, you've been out of the workforce too long. catherine's stint at Jigsaw was an example of networking at it's best. she was most likely not interviewed for her position. it's obvious that she was considered for the job on the basis of her connection to the future King. as an assistant "buyer" (as the media chooses to incorrectly refer to her position) she would have had to have experience in retail purchasing at some level which, considering her age, she wouldn't have. also, knowing that she worked only part time and was entitled to extensive vacation time for someone that hadn't been with the company very long tells you that a) her hours of work and time away were all negotiated to her benefit and b) Jigsaw saw her only for marketing purposes and took advantage of that, not to mention that i believe the owners are friends of either parents or someone she knows and they did her a favor by hiring her and this is where they benefitted.

[mizzy2006]

Originally Posted by Luv2Cruise
What sane person who does not roam in William's circles would not be proud for their daughter to marry him?

I think Richard Branson did say that her daughter might not be interested to be William's wife because of the formality. But, yeah.. we never know.

I know my mom did mention to me and all my siblings not to be involved with any royalty becoz she cant stand any royal protocol. She may only refer specifically to the royal families in my country eventhough they are not 'so popular'.. But I wont say she will agree on other royalties too...

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by Duchess

but what you implied is that the responsibilities she had were unimportant and not considered a "working background". parents.

From what I read of Diana's education and early life, the kindergarten stint wasn't considered by her or her family as a working background. It was a 3 day a week half day job which she wouldn't have done if her job as a ballet teacher for children hadn't failed.

Diana was a bit aimless when she met Prince Charles and her father helped her out at a lot of steps of the junction. Unlike her sisters, she had failed her O levels, her parents sent her to a finishing school in Switzerland, she got homesick and dropped out of that. She came back to London to live with her sister. I don't know how she got the job at the ballet school but it didn't last long. Then her father bought her a townhouse or apartment in a very exclusive building and she received income from the rent of her two roommates from her father's investment. She got the job teaching kindergarten 3 days a week for half days and then quit that job when the attention of the press got so much that it was scaring the children.

I believe the kindergarten job was gotten on the basis of the references from the Robertsons because you don't need a special degree to teach kindergarten. Diana had private nannying jobs with two families and I believed that at least one of them came from her father's friendships.

Wealthy and exclusive American families don't always go through the top agencies to find top quality childcare. There was a mini scandal awhile back when a prospectvie Attorney General of the US was found out to have hired an illegal alien to raise her children.

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

I wouldn't say "have to" but "want to". And sometimes a job does not allow people to accommodate other people's schedules, even if they want to; unless they are employed by Jigsaw, of course

And do we actually know how many times Catherine has had to say 'I can't get the time off'?

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

And do we actually know how many times Catherine has had to say 'I can't get the time off'?

No we don't - but we don't know either if she had to ask at all when she wanted to take time off.

Originally Posted by Duchess
skydragon, you've been out of the workforce too long. catherine's stint at Jigsaw was an example of networking at it's best. she was most likely not interviewed for her position. it's obvious that she was considered for the job on the basis of her connection to the future King. as an assistant "buyer" (as the media chooses to incorrectly refer to her position) she would have had to have experience in retail purchasing at some level which, considering her age, she wouldn't have. also, knowing that she worked only part time and was entitled to extensive vacation time for someone that hadn't been with the company very long tells you that a) her hours of work and time away were all negotiated to her benefit and b) Jigsaw saw her only for marketing purposes and took advantage of that, not to mention that i believe the owners are friends of either parents or someone she knows and they did her a favor by hiring her and this is where they benefitted.

Duchess, you hit the nail on the head

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by Duchess

the agencies/kindergarten that she worked for may have been suggested by friends of her sister but she still would have had to apply for the position.

I believe, as an assistant, therefore with no real responsibility, (or so it was considered back then), it would probably have been a case of the owner mentioning she needed a couple of assistants to a mother, who replied that a friend of hers had a younger sister looking for some extra cash. That is how it worked, according to friends.

it's highly unlikely that a family such are the roberston's would register with a "questionable" agency. as for training, since diana's responsibilities involved the smaller children and, as you say changing nappies she probably didn't need much formal training for that.

Which is why I conclude that she got the job by the means already mentioned.

but what you implied is that the responsibilities she had were unimportant and not considered a "working background". shortened quote.

Had Diana been in charge of or doing the majority of the work, then I would consider it a working background. Had she completed training, for the post, of some sort. But like Catherine, each job she had was part time (in fact 3 mornings less per week, without any famous or royal boyfriend at that time) and unlike Catherine she only met with women from a similar life that her sisters enjoyed.

skydragon, you've been out of the workforce too long. catherine's stint at Jigsaw was an example of networking at it's best. she was most likely not interviewed for her position. it's obvious that she was considered for the job on the basis of her connection to the future King. as an assistant "buyer" (as the media chooses to incorrectly refer to her position) she would have had to have experience in retail purchasing at some level which, considering her age, she wouldn't have. also, knowing that she worked only part time and was entitled to extensive vacation time for someone that hadn't been with the company very long tells you that a) her hours of work and time away were all negotiated to her benefit and b) Jigsaw saw her only for marketing purposes and took advantage of that, not to mention that i believe the owners are friends of either parents or someone she knows and they did her a favor by hiring her and this is where they benefitted.

I believe that her parents helped her get the job, I also accept that they probably skipped over the interview at headquarters. However it is not that hard to get a trainee buyer position at any of the major retailers, with a degree. Almost all of the major retailers here, constantly advertise, in their stores and the papers for 'trainee buyers', trainee managers' etc. Even Tesco in Inverness and Dingwall has adverts up for both. I accept that she has an arrangement that she can work 10 days over a couple of weeks, in order to have extra time off, due probably to her involvement with William. We had the daughter of a friend working for us, who had a similar arrangement and she was paid pro-rata if she had to have too many extra days. It was agreed and arranged with her parent and the girl herself, she wasn't reliant on our money to pay her way and the arrangement worked for us all.

Duchess, I have never been in the workforce, I am one of these ghastly (or so it seems from some of the comments) members of society that has never had to be in paid employment (and not because of who I married).

[Duchess]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

I believe, as an assistant, therefore with no real responsibility, (or so it was considered back then)it would probably have been a case of the owner mentioning she needed a couple of assistants to a mother, who replied that a friend of hers had a younger sister looking for some extra cash. That is how it worked, according to friends. Which is why I conclude that she got the job by the means already mentioned. Had Diana been in charge of or doing the majority of the work, then I would consider it a working background. Had she completed training, for the post, of some sort. But like Catherine, each job she had was part time (in fact 3 mornings less per week, without any famous or royal boyfriend at that time) and unlike Catherine she only met with women from a similar life that her sisters enjoyed. I believe that her parents helped her get the job, I also accept that they probably skipped over the interview at headquarters. However it is not that hard to get a trainee buyer position at any of the major retailers, with a degree. Almost all of the major retailers here, constantly advertise, in their stores and the papers for 'trainee buyers', trainee managers' etc. Even Tesco in Inverness and Dingwall has adverts up for both. I accept that she has an arrangement that she can work 10 days over a couple of weeks, in order to have extra time off, due probably to her involvement with William. We had the daughter of a friend working for us, who had a similar arrangement and she was paid pro-rata if she had to have too many extra days. It was agreed and arranged with her parent and the girl herself, she wasn't reliant on our money to pay her way and the arrangement worked for us all.

Duchess, I have never been in the workforce, I am one of these ghastly (or so it seems from some of the comments) members of society that has never had to be in paid employment (and not because of who I married).

the fact that you've been fortunate enough not to have "had paid employment" doesn't make you ghastly regardless of what some people think.

at the risk of derailing this thread into a "diana discussion" i'll refrain from addressing the portions of the post regarding diana...suffice it say that i disagree.

as for the catherine portion - my point is entirely that catherine was probably hired as what is referred to in the retail industry as a "category asistant" and does mostly administrative jobs, pretty much the same as a secretary or administrative assistant. they track stock levels at stores, address stock issues with store managemen and do tons of data entry...all the grunt work but no buying. having said that, working 3 days a week is nowhere near enough time to adequately do that kind of job. for all we know, she may not even have been receiving a pay cheque. perhaps they had some sort of arrangement whereby she appeared to "work" for them and in return for the "privilege" (for lack of a better word) of using her name/being connected to a "celebrity". however, if for some reason she ever decides to go into the retail business, or fashion business, she can still put it on a cv (resume for all us north americans) as gainful experience. yes it's very common for businesses to advertise for trainees at all levels but this wasn't the case with catherine. even with the degree she had (art history? or something like that?) she wouldn't be doing a buyer's job with that kind of degree that's for sure. it's obvious that this job was never meant to lead anywhere or last long and sure enough it's turned out exactly that way. i don't hold that against her though.

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by Duchess

.... my point is entirely that catherine was probably hired as what is referred to in the retail industry as a "category asistant" and does mostly administrative jobs, pretty much the same as a secretary or administrative assistant. they track stock levels at stores, address stock issues with store management and do tons of data entry...all the grunt work but no buying. having said that, working 3 days a week is nowhere near enough time to adequately do that kind of job........ it's obvious that this job was never meant to lead anywhere or last long and sure enough it's turned out exactly that way. i don't hold that against her though.

Here that would be a stock control clerk. Perhaps we should re-label her job as assistant to the buyers assistant. Now these are the boys and girls that are sent out to get the sandwiches, make the coffee, field the phone calls that the buyers assistant does not want to take. I know of a couple of young women who took up posts as trainee buyers, (one with a degree in Geography), who moaned that all they did was chase up suppliers and make the tea. I was surprised either of them knew how to make tea!

[Duchess]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

Here that would be a stock control clerk. Perhaps we should re-label her job as assistant to the buyers assistant. Now these are the boys and girls that are sent out to get the sandwiches, make the coffee, field the phone calls that the buyers assistant does not want to take. I know of a couple of young women who took up posts as trainee buyers, (one with a degree in Geography), who moaned that all they did was chase up suppliers and make the tea. I was surprised either of them knew how to make tea!

a "clerk" is a lower position than an "assistant" but that's probably more in line with what catherine was doing however you couldn't have the potential future queen was a lowly clerk (sorry to any clerks out there...i'm just being facetious) it just isn't glamorous enough.

[zembla]

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