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  #81  
Old 12-04-2005, 07:54 AM
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One thing I agree with the MP on, they need to be careful. On one hand, they don't want to offend many people but on the other hand they don't want to downgrade the position of wife of Prince of Wales. It's dangerous territory. Once a wife's position has been degraded; its hard to bring it back.
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  #82  
Old 12-04-2005, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
One thing I agree with the MP on, they need to be careful. On one hand, they don't want to offend many people but on the other hand they don't want to downgrade the position of wife of Prince of Wales. It's dangerous territory. Once a wife's position has been degraded; its hard to bring it back.
I really think it is only a case of waiting. More and more people that you speak to are now accepting Camilla. The change in Charles is so obvious, who could begrudge them happiness.:)
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  #83  
Old 12-04-2005, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon
I really think it is only a case of waiting. More and more people that you speak to are now accepting Camilla. The change in Charles is so obvious, who could begrudge them happiness.:)
I don't disagree with you there, skydragon but they have a fine balancing act to do. If they make too few concessions to public opinion, their efforts will backfire, but if they make too many concessions to public opinion, they degrade the position.

I think the MP was right when he said it hadn't all been thought through at the beginning.
  #84  
Old 12-04-2005, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
I don't disagree with you there, skydragon but they have a fine balancing act to do. If they make too few concessions to public opinion, their efforts will backfire, but if they make too many concessions to public opinion, they degrade the position.

I think the MP was right when he said it hadn't all been thought through at the beginning.
If you think how public opinion and peoples perception of Camilla has changed since the wedding, I really do think it will only be a matter of time before she is included.
Another way is that if Camilla's ex were to die (not something I hope or wish for I hasten to add), the church will then recognise Camilla fully.
I have to be honest, one major shock is all some of my countrymen and women can take in a year!:)
  #85  
Old 12-04-2005, 04:11 PM
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I am sorry to say but the queen took a cowardly approach to the prayer issue. Camilla is married to the heir to the throne and should at all times be treated as such. Is it too late to base decisions on like or dislike. All priests have to include the Queen in the prayers whether they like her or not. It is a matter of honoring the symbolism and role of the royal family - not a popularity issue.

Both the Queen and Charles failed in their duty this time for not standing up for the consort to the heir of the throne.
  #86  
Old 12-04-2005, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by grevinnan
I am sorry to say but the queen took a cowardly approach to the prayer issue. Camilla is married to the heir to the throne and should at all times be treated as such. Is it too late to base decisions on like or dislike. All priests have to include the Queen in the prayers whether they like her or not. It is a matter of honoring the symbolism and role of the royal family - not a popularity issue.
.
The Queen had to take the British church goers feelings into consideration. The majority of Brits will thank her for that, I think it showed great personal courage and strength to recognise that.
  #87  
Old 12-04-2005, 04:36 PM
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I think it is a cowerdly act. Yes there is a balance in that they are praying for Camilla when they say the royal family in general but not specifically but it goes against tradition and makes it into a popularity constest. The monarchy will only survive with the traditions that insure its continuation. The Queen has just made it more difficult for herslef when in the future she is accepted and then has to add Camilla. I think the time for precaution is over and she should be treated as any wife of the heir is.
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Old 12-04-2005, 04:55 PM
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I don't think it's a matter of popularity as much as a matter of people not wanting to have to say a specific prayer for a woman who, in the eyes of the church, is in an adulterous repationship because her first husband is still alive.
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Old 12-04-2005, 04:59 PM
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Yes but the church blessed the marriage and approved it so there should be no problems when it comes the divorce issue. Is the anglican like the catholic church in believing that once married always married. Or being a state church recognize divorces given by the state as church divorces too.
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Old 12-04-2005, 05:13 PM
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I don't know if this has been posted yet, if it has, then sorry.
"CAMILLA MAKES ROYAL CHRISTMAS CARD DEBUT"
http://www.hellomagazine.com/royalty...illachristmas/
  #91  
Old 12-04-2005, 05:18 PM
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the queen's decition the queen decition. she has been queen by 53 years, is a wise woman and knows what she does. may she has reasons that we do not know. she not invited sarah for christmas ans queen know why, not us.
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  #92  
Old 12-04-2005, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
I don't think it's a matter of popularity as much as a matter of people not wanting to have to say a specific prayer for a woman who, in the eyes of the church, is in an adulterous repationship because her first husband is still alive.


i agree. the queen has a tricky role to follow because she is not only the head of state but the head of the church. if church doctrine says one thing, she would be wrong to challenge it and do whatever she wanted. It has been said that she is a woman of deep religious conviction so I guess she had to draw the line somewhere.

a question: Did the church blessing legitimize the marriage for the church of england or did it serve another function?
  #93  
Old 12-04-2005, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corazon
the queen's decition the queen decition. she has been queen by 53 years, is a wise woman and knows what she does. may she has reasons that we do not know. she not invited sarah for christmas ans queen know why, not us.
I seem to recall that Sophie will also not be mentioned by name. I think it's more the case that HM is seeing the sense of scaling things back & accepting that the entire population do not support the royal family. IMTS, in Queen Mary's day the King, the Queen, the Prince of Wales & all of their other children as well as, prior to her death, Queen Alexandra and all the royal spouses were mentioned by name in prayers. Things have changed a lot in the intervening years and people are just not as accepting of this type of show anymore.
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  #94  
Old 12-04-2005, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wymanda
I seem to recall that Sophie will also not be mentioned by name. I think it's more the case that HM is seeing the sense of scaling things back & accepting that the entire population do not support the royal family. IMTS, in Queen Mary's day the King, the Queen, the Prince of Wales & all of their other children as well as, prior to her death, Queen Alexandra and all the royal spouses were mentioned by name in prayers. Things have changed a lot in the intervening years and people are just not as accepting of this type of show anymore.
but sophie not is future king's wife. are diferents situations.
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Today the world has embraced new royal Princesses in the form of Mary of Denmark and Maxima of the Netherlands. But it's questionable whether even these hugely popular, increasingly glamorous future Queens will ever capture the world's imagination in the same way as Diana.
As Mario acknowledges: "She really was a true Princess".
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  #95  
Old 12-04-2005, 08:03 PM
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Are the churches by law required to pray for the royal family. Many churches will include Camilla in their prayers as support for their future head. The queen does take her role as head of the church very seriously. I guess she playing it safe is best. The people who still do go to church regurally are probably really religious and condemn adultery.
  #96  
Old 12-04-2005, 10:24 PM
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On the flip side, including Camilla in the prayer will raise the hackles from some quarters as well. Since she is not formally known as Princess of Wales, perhaps that's one reason she is being excluded. Sort of the rank has its priviledges...and being mentioned in prayer as part of the priviledge of being known as PoW. Wasn't it mentioned before that as Duchess, Camilla is supposed be #4 in the royal ladies ranking? One can hardly pray for #4 when the 2nd & 3rd ladies are not mentioned either.
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Old 12-04-2005, 11:17 PM
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Its becoming too complicated and dangerous in my opinion. I know they are trying to play it safe but they are obviously downgrading Camilla. It is making the situation harder for Camilla because when she becomes fully accepted, and all signs lead to that, it will a bit hard to upgrade her without people making fun of the windsors. They need to keep it simple and treat Camilla as a low-key wife of the Prince of Wales for know and increase her role later. Hopefully things will change next year.
  #98  
Old 12-05-2005, 01:07 AM
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It sounds like a snubbery and made a difference between the treatment of Camilla and Diana again. But once Camilla accpeted this and calmed herself about this, it may be beneficial in the long-term period. The most important thing for Camilla is that Charles loves her always. Once Charles becomes the King, her status will be never denied. Now only Queen, Duke and Prince of Wales are in the prayers and I think Camilla will find her way to be contented and calm Charles as well.
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Old 12-05-2005, 02:03 AM
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Camilla left out of royal prayer
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...05/ixhome.html
  #100  
Old 12-05-2005, 02:15 AM
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I was saddened to learn that The Duchess of Cornwall will not be included in the prayers' list but that's the desicion of HM Queen Elzabeth and I think she had reasons for it.
Am I right in suggesting that the desicion could be the result of the fact that The Duchess comes (in rank) after The Pricness Royal?
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