Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall Current Events 5: September-October 2005

[Elspeth]

Yes, it'd be much more likely for Charles to make her a Lady of the Garter than for the Queen to. I assume he'll do so if she ends up being Queen Camilla, but I'm not sure about the situation if she really does becime Princess Consort.

 

[pollyemma]

Ok, I'm confused. the Duchess of Gloucester has the order of the garter???

she shared a carriage with Camilla at the garter service this year and she was not wearing the robes. (she was wearing a light blue suit with a pillbox hat, as i recall)

do some of the knights not wear their robes for the Garter service? is there a protocool for that or is it simply their choice?

 

[LaMinka]

Are Charles and Camilla take part in the visit from Norway in October?

 

[Elspeth]

Ok, I'm confused. the Duchess of Gloucester has the order of the garter???

No, she has the Family Order; I think that's the question that was being answered with that list which included the Duchess. The only royal ladies with the Garter are the Queen, Princess Anne, and Princess Alexandra (and the Queen Mother had it, if course). The Duchess of Gloucester and the Countess of Wessex also have the Family Order; I think the Duchess of Kent still has hers; Fergie and Princess Michael were never given it.

 

[pollyemma]

No, she has the Family Order; I think that's the question that was being answered with that list which included the Duchess. The only royal ladies with the Garter are the Queen, Princess Anne, and Princess Alexandra (and the Queen Mother had it, if course). The Duchess of Gloucester and the Countess of Wessex also have the Family Order; I think the Duchess of Kent still has hers; Fergie and Princess Michael were never given it.

Ok thanks a lot for the explanation! that helps a lot

Do you happen to know if members of the family order have a special insignia that they get to wear?

did Diana have the family order?

 

[Oppie]

Yes Diana had family orders. It is a yellow ribbon with a picture of the Queen on a broach surronded by dimonds (someone may be able to give a better discribtion) I think she got hers two years after she was married.

 

[pollyemma]

Ok, yeah. I know what you're talking about. she would wear it to state dinners. i didnt realize that was the family order. i'm learning so much today

It's kinda similar to ones the Swedish young royals wear with pictures of their dad only with a light blue ribbon.

 

[tiaraprin]

Camilla shouldn't get the family order either. She will get one if Charles does become king. Sarah Ferguson never got it, so why should Camilla?? She has done worse!!

 

[ysbel]

It seems the Family Order is a personal momento from the Queen to the receiver rather than an official state decoration. Why she didn't give one to Sarah who she initially liked is a mystery.

 

[Elspeth]

Camilla shouldn't get the family order either. She will get one if Charles does become king. Sarah Ferguson never got it, so why should Camilla?? She has done worse!!

She's been discreet and not talked to the press or trailed a parade of boyfriends around. The royal family seem to be of the opinion that the worst thing you can do is to talk to the press about things, not actually do them.

 

[grevinnan]

Camilla is married to the next King and whether she takes the title of Queen or not she will still be the first royal lady of the land. If QEII does not treat her as such she will only lessen the status of the Royal Family and give fuel to the critics of the monarchy. If the current Queen does not publicly treat Prince Charles' wife with the outmost respect, why would anyone else. If Prince Charles is to remain in line to ascend the throne then his wife Camilla has to be viewed with the reverence that the future consort is entitled to, and that includes receiving any orders that would normally be bestowed on the wife of the Prince of Wales.
If the Queen, the royal family and the brittish citizens does not like P. Charles choice of wife then they have to find ways to make sure he does not ascend the throne. No matter what one thinks of Camilla, the Prince of Wales made her his wife.

grevinnan

 

[ysbel]

That's a good point, grevinnan. I'm not a fan of Mette-Marit but the Norwegian Royal Family decided to accept her so its in the best interests of those who support the Norweigan monarchy to accept her too.

The interesting part of the monarchy for me is that its not based on merit or popularity but primogeniture and who the heir happens to choose for his wife. It makes for a more interesting cast of characters than an elected head of state who you know is going to have a certain image (complete with sound bites) based on what the opinion polls determine is most electable at the times.

In that way, royals are more like real people than our elected officials.

 

[tiaraprin]

She's been discreet and not talked to the press or trailed a parade of boyfriends around. The royal family seem to be of the opinion that the worst thing you can do is to talk to the press about things, not actually do them.

Camilla just helped break up the marriage of Diana and Charles, which damaged the monarchy just as much or probably more than Sarah's earlier antics.

 

[susan alicia]

do not understand how you reason, both were unfaithfull
except the husband of camilla might have understood the love affair and charles was an active participant
sarah humiliated her (faithfull) husband unbelievably with the swimmingpool pictures.

Or has camilla done worse because she is now higher in rank than sarah.

Camilla shouldn't get the family order either. She will get one if Charles does become king. Sarah Ferguson never got it, so why should Camilla?? She has done worse!!

 

[ysbel]

Camilla just helped break up the marriage of Diana and Charles, which damaged the monarchy just as much or probably more than Sarah's earlier antics.

The Queen may have mixed feelings about her personally but Her Majesty probably feels she can trust Camilla not to publicly embarass her. For a monarch that is very important.

 

[Elspeth]

Camilla just helped break up the marriage of Diana and Charles, which damaged the monarchy just as much or probably more than Sarah's earlier antics.

I was talking about the reason why the Queen might give a family order to Camilla when she didn't give one to Sarah. Having loose lips seems to be a far worse sin to the royal family than having loose morals.

 

[tiaraprin]

do not understand how you reason, both were unfaithfull
except the husband of camilla might have understood the love affair and charles was an active participant
sarah humiliated her (faithfull) husband unbelievably with the swimmingpool pictures.

Or has camilla done worse because she is now higher in rank than sarah.

On A & E's Biographies of Sarah and Andrew, it has been said that Sarah and Andrew had an agreement during their marriage about "extracurricular activities". Perhaps we haven't heard about Andrew's if he has had any.

 

[wymanda]

On A & E's Biographies of Sarah and Andrew, it has been said that Sarah and Andrew had an agreement during their marriage about "extracurricular activities". Perhaps we haven't heard about Andrew's if he has had any.

I hardly think that an american produced TV program is a reliable source of information on the private lives of a british prince & his wife!!!

 

[tiaraprin]

I hardly think that an american produced TV program is a reliable source of information on the private lives of a british prince & his wife!!!

That is quite a stuck up remark. A & E is a renowned program. They also had a bevy of British Interviews to back themselves up.

 

[iowabelle]

On A & E's Biographies of Sarah and Andrew, it has been said that Sarah and Andrew had an agreement during their marriage about "extracurricular activities". Perhaps we haven't heard about Andrew's if he has had any.

I'm wondering if that was Sarah's take on the situation.

But they didn't have the ideal beginning to their marriage, with him gone so much. Is that typical of a naval couple? I know that the Queen spent some time with Prince Philip on Malta (leaving Prince Charles behind) before the birth of Princess Anne.

 

[susan alicia]

perhaps. I find her being unfaithfull odd enough, would be surprised if he was unfaithfull too, it was a lovematch after all.

the girlfriends he has had since fergie are very discreet, saw an article in the daily telegraph about a woman who was very succesfull in an artgallery or pr, can not remember and she was also his currant girlfriend and she did not want to talk about it.

(am surprised that no member has yet found it necessary to say "this is a thread about etc )

On A & E's Biographies of Sarah and Andrew, it has been said that Sarah and Andrew had an agreement during their marriage about "extracurricular activities". Perhaps we haven't heard about Andrew's if he has had any.

 

[ysbel]

(am surprised that no member has yet found it necessary to say "this is a thread about etc )

Well, since you mentioned it I go back to what Elspeth was saying about the Queen giving Camilla the Family order.

For those who relate to Diana and the way she expressed her emotions, fears, hopes, and disappointments so openly, its hard to understand why the Royal Family may prefer Camilla's discretion even with the infidelity.

The Royal Family is not only a family but an institution in which members are born into and stay in for life. Every public institution has to have some control over their public relations. Its much harder to do this when individuals in the family lay themselves open to the press and create their own press campaigns no matter how noble the reasons or how real the hurt. It sounds very harsh but life in an institution is harsh. Not every woman needs the emotional openness that Diana needed to have a satisfying life.

That's why the Royal family cannot handle it when one of their own divulges secrets to the press. They end up having to go into spin control with the press while the problem inside is still there. Affairs and marriage troubles they can handle as long as they're handled inside the family. These problems are not new to them and the family has survived them. Some say that Camilla caused the problems between Charles and Diana but I think even without a Camilla there would have been problems and with Diana's nature she would have been open to the public with those problems too.

Right now, except for Princess Michael. the Queen has probably got the most control over the Royal Family's public relations than she's had for a long time. It has got to be easier for her as a monarch than it was before. Camilla has shown that she will support the Queen in this regard which must be a relief. This woman has been on the throne for over 50 years and is almost 80 years old an age long past when most people retire. She's probably tired of having to deal with the spin control with Diana and Charles and thankful that with Camilla she won't have to. Charles, unmarried in a relation to Camilla, was not going to give the Queen any peace and Charles unmarried without someone to support him would have caused the Queen a lot of grief and worry.

I also think that Camilla was not exactly happy about the idea of marrying into the Royal family. She was fine the way she was so I see the marriage as a kind of sacrifice for her to keep her man. I think the Queen sees it and appreciates the efforts she's made to fit in.

Since the Family Order is a personal recognition from the Queen to members of the Royal family, I can see the Queen giving it to Camilla if not this year, at least in a few years.

 

[Warren]

Since the Family Order is a personal recognition from the Queen to members of the Royal family, I can see the Queen giving it to Camilla if not this year, at least in a few years.

The Queen takes things very slowly and deliberatley, and seems to test the waters of public opinion before doing anything too "controversial." Her declining to attend the actual marriage in Windsor was a good example of her having it both ways. Instead she stayed in her Castle and attended the ceremony and party there. May not have kept Charles happy, but everyone could sympathise with her "dilemma."

The marriage of Charles and Camilla was, before the event, considered to be one of the great "tests" for the Monarchy. How pleased HM must be that, generally speaking, the public reaction to the marriage and to Camilla herself has been so relatively positive. There was no crisis, the Family has continued to do what it has always done, and Camilla herself has proved to be something of a surprise with her fashions, ability to work the crowd, and attendance at serious Royal events.

However, with one eye on what the public may think or accept, she will be her usual conservative self in waiting a while before giving Camilla the Royal Family Order. A private Family decoration it may be, but it has public significance and will be seen as awarding Camilla a very high accolade. It will be interesting to see when Queen Elizabeth feels the timing is right.
.

 

[ysbel]

How pleased HM must be that, generally speaking, the public reaction to the marriage and to Camilla herself has been so relatively positive. There was no crisis, the Family has continued to do what it has always done, and Camilla herself has proved to be something of a surprise with her fashions, ability to work the crowd, and attendance at serious Royal events.

However, with one eye on what the public may think or accept, she will be her usual conservative self in waiting a while before giving Camilla the Royal Family Order.

I totally agree Warren. I was simply attempting to explain in a rather longwinded way why the Queen would even consider giving Camilla the order at all given the extramarital affair.

 

[branchg]

In my opinion, the Queen will no doubt grant the Royal Family Order to Camilla as she takes on more royal duties and defines her public role. As with most things, the Queen will proceed cautiously in granting additional recognition to Camilla as the wife of the heir to the throne, but I'm sure she is pleased so far with the public's reaction.

 

[Zonk]

I think she will get it within two years...however..she will need to increase her royal duties. Perhaps do more solo events. The main explaination for the "duo tour" ......not sure how the public will react to Camilla. Which I think has been somewhat positive (and I say that as not a fan of Camilla.)

 

[wymanda]

However, with one eye on what the public may think or accept, she will be her usual conservative self in waiting a while before giving Camilla the Royal Family Order. A private Family decoration it may be, but it has public significance and will be seen as awarding Camilla a very high accolade. It will be interesting to see when Queen Elizabeth feels the timing is right.
.

Personally, I think we will see Camilla wear the order (& a tiara) during the Norwegian state visit.

 

[iowabelle]

Personally, I think we will see Camilla wear the order (& a tiara) during the Norwegian state visit.

Tiara yes, order no.

 

[Aussie Princess]

When is the Norweigan state visit? I wonder what her tiara will be like?Can't wait to see it!

 

[HMQueenElizabethII]

When is the Norweigan state visit? I wonder what her tiara will be like?Can't wait to see it!

It will take place from 25th to 27th October 2005, Aussie Princess