The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > British Royals > Current Events Archive

Join The Royal Forums Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #161  
Old 06-12-2006, 11:45 AM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,387
The monarchy stopped being a focus for reverence when Rupert Murdoch came to England and decided to attack the British class system by attacking the monarchy - it happened before Prince Charles and it happened before Murdoch became the owner of the Times which printed this latest article of 'concern for legality of the Prince of Wales' marriage

Bollocks! Murdoch would like nothing better than to destroy the monarchy and he said as much in a 1989 interview.

Here's an excerpt from the transcript of the PBS Frontline program:

Quote:
RUPERT MURDOCH, Newspaper Owner: [1989 interview] I used to feel that this was a society that was held down by a very stratified class system and that the royal family was the pinnacle of that and that you would never really open up this society to opportunity for everybody until you tackled this class system and it was very hard to see how you could tackle it with the royal family there.
I take Murdoch's concern for the legality of the marriage with quite a hefty grain (if not several buckets) of salt.

__________________

__________________
"One thing we can do is make the choice to view the world in a healthy way. We can choose to see the world as safe with only moments of danger rather than seeing the world as dangerous with only moments of safety."
-- Deepak Chopra
  #162  
Old 06-12-2006, 06:07 PM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,945
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel

I take Murdoch's concern for the legality of the marriage with quite a hefty grain (if not several buckets) of salt.
They say salt is not good for you but, Murdoch is certainly worse. Why is it that those who can't get in, set out to destroy the very thing they long to be part of?
__________________

  #163  
Old 06-13-2006, 12:03 AM
julial's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
They say salt is not good for you but, Murdoch is certainly worse. Why is it that those who can't get in, set out to destroy the very thing they long to be part of?
But I thought that M was also from aristocratic background... his father was a knight and he was sent to study in Oxbridge, no? In his own way, his family was the creme de creme of the Australian society...??? I guess he had too much of the strong personality which lebelled against his own class-because he felt that he could not fit in with his fellow classmates...any thought on this? His is very competence oriented-that was part of the reason why he wanted to marry the young Chinese girl and left his Australian wife who was more of a housewife and a part-time writer. His new wife is very much business oriented and very energetic-(not only being young)

The man is very much of paradox. I think he just wants to be the king himself!
  #164  
Old 06-13-2006, 06:03 AM
Warren's Avatar
Administrator in Memoriam
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 15,476
Quote:
Originally Posted by julial
But I thought that M was also from aristocratic background... his father was a knight
Being awarded a knighthood for services to publishing does not make one an aristocrat. The Murdoch empire commenced with a small-town Adelaide newspaper. He had to break in to the 'social circles' of the big cities of Sydney and Melbourne; his nickname was "The Dirty Digger." Maybe he still harbours that old resentment of being an outsider. Just as Mohammad Al Fayed still harbours resentments at his lack of acceptance into British 'society'. Money can't buy class.
__________________
Seeking information? Check out the extensive Royal A-Z
  #165  
Old 06-13-2006, 06:22 AM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,945
Britain is still very class orientated and as Warren has said, just because you are awarded a knighthood, does not mean you become a British aristocrat. He will, like al Fayed, always be seen as a wannabe, never quite belonging.
  #166  
Old 06-13-2006, 08:44 AM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by julial
The man is very much of paradox. I think he just wants to be the king himself!
I think you got that right!

His biggest paradox is ranting against an inheritance-based system while setting up his son as editor of some of his newspapers.

Doesn't he realize that's how the monarchy started? Originally kings got a certain amount of power and they groomed a son to succeed them. Looking out for your own family is one of the most primary human instincts.
__________________
"One thing we can do is make the choice to view the world in a healthy way. We can choose to see the world as safe with only moments of danger rather than seeing the world as dangerous with only moments of safety."
-- Deepak Chopra
  #167  
Old 06-13-2006, 06:19 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 10,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
I think you got that right!

His biggest paradox is ranting against an inheritance-based system while setting up his son as editor of some of his newspapers.

Doesn't he realize that's how the monarchy started? Originally kings got a certain amount of power and they groomed a son to succeed them. Looking out for your own family is one of the most primary human instincts.
He also inherited the business from his father who inherited it from his father - seems a bit hypocritical to me!!
  #168  
Old 06-14-2006, 04:49 AM
Jo of Palatine's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 3,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
Britain is still very class orientated and as Warren has said, just because you are awarded a knighthood, does not mean you become a British aristocrat. He will, like al Fayed, always be seen as a wannabe, never quite belonging.
Do you think Charles would never have been interested in Camilla if she hasn't been from an aristocratic or gentry background? What about Sarah Ferguson? Sie descends from landed gentry but doesn't behave accordingly. At least in my opinion.

Another view on the British class system: I found it very interesting when I lived for some time in Belsize Village, London that while the British seemed to be very class-conscious they didn't take this attitude on viewing foreigners. At least I never had the feeling that someone did. And due to my profession (I'm a wine and spirits expert) then I had a lot of contacts to people of the upper class as well - both in London and Scotland. Okay, I knew I was judged for who I was - but nobody ever asked about my family background, the way I spoke English and the knowledge in my topic seemed to be enough.
Which I consider a very pleasant way to behave as here in Germany it's mostly money that counts today.
  #169  
Old 06-14-2006, 06:25 AM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
Do you think Charles would never have been interested in Camilla if she hasn't been from an aristocratic or gentry background? What about Sarah Ferguson? Sie descends from landed gentry but doesn't behave accordingly. At least in my opinion.

... And due to my profession (I'm a wine and spirits expert) then I had a lot of contacts to people of the upper class as well - both in London and Scotland. Okay, I knew I was judged for who I was - but nobody ever asked about my family background, the way I spoke English and the knowledge in my topic seemed to be enough.
You can marry into the aristocracy and after a while be partially accepted, your children will be of course. The aristocratic line is what is important. Landed gentry are not aristocrats, so Sarah is basically a rich farmers daughter who married well and as you say acts accordingly.

You would have been judged on what you did, it is unlikely you would have been invited to mix with these people in an informal way. One person you never upset is your wine merchant!
  #170  
Old 06-14-2006, 07:47 AM
Jo of Palatine's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 3,323
It's a bit off-topic but I'd love to learn more about the workings of the British upper class, so maybe the moderators will allow this post to be answered? Thank you very much in advance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
You would have been judged on what you did, it is unlikely you would have been invited to mix with these people in an informal way. One person you never upset is your wine merchant!
Does I understand you right and you mean that people like wine merchants don't get invitations to mix with the upper class in Britain? Are they still expected to use the backdoor?

Then obviously the people who invited me to visit were not considering me to be of the same class as their wine merchant. Come to think of it, I never invited a wine merchant either.

But somehow it is degrading to think that my hosts just thought I was good enough to amuse their other guests with my knowledge when they invited me - should I have sent them a bill afterwards, I wonder? For "performing" at their parties? Or is it enough to still be on their list when it comes to sending christmas cards?
  #171  
Old 06-14-2006, 09:02 AM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
Do I understand you right and you mean that people like wine merchants don't get invitations to mix with the upper class in Britain? Are they still expected to use the backdoor?
But somehow it is degrading to think that my hosts just thought I was good enough to amuse their other guests with my knowledge when they invited me - should I have sent them a bill afterwards, I wonder? For "performing" at their parties? Or is it enough to still be on their list when it comes to sending christmas cards?
You are confusing upper class with aristocracy, however many 'upper class' people do expect tradesmen to use the back door, although a rich wine merchant is normally considered to be in the upper classes anyway.

Professors and 'experts' are guests and are therefore allowed to use the front. I should also say it depends on your host, the nouveau riche tend to 'use' people to help their social standing more than aristocrats, who feel they have nothing to prove.

Again if you struck up a friendship with your hosts, of course they will send you a christmas card but, does it have a personal note in it? Like many people, we send out a variety of cards ie. family, close friends, distant friends, acquaintances, businesses and people who happen to be in the address book that you have met or conversed with a couple of times.

Very complicated is it not?
  #172  
Old 06-15-2006, 12:46 AM
stellad's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , New Zealand
Posts: 688
Have any arrangements been made with regards to the funeral of Camilla's father, Major Shand?

Stellad
  #173  
Old 06-15-2006, 03:03 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: San Francisco, United States
Posts: 2,383
There is a big difference between being a personal friend and a useful acquaintance. It is sometimes very difficult to distinguish which group someone belongs to. However, over time the distinction usually makes itself known.
  #174  
Old 06-15-2006, 11:57 AM
WindsorIII's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tucson, United States
Posts: 406
Quote:
originally posted by Stellad
Have any arrangements been made with regards to the funeral of Camilla's father, Major Shand?

Stellad
I only know that arrangments are being made for a private, family funeral. I don't think it will be a big media event. They've asked the press to back off out of respect for Camilla.

My guess is it will be a low key, just close family funeral. Although I suspect we will see a few photos anyways.
  #175  
Old 06-15-2006, 04:16 PM
stellad's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , New Zealand
Posts: 688
Thank you Windsor111

Stellad
  #176  
Old 06-15-2006, 06:25 PM
selrahc4's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: , United States
Posts: 760
Most aristocrats, nobility, and royalty if nothing else have exquisite good manners. Typical of this, I think, would be what James Callaghan once said when discussing the time he was Prime Minister, that the Queen offers "friendliness but not friendship".
__________________
aka Janet on some other forums
  #177  
Old 06-15-2006, 06:48 PM
Duchess's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: xx, Canada
Posts: 1,649
about the class system - as long as you're useful you're in(even if you don't have titles and wealth but better if you have money and breeding). once you've outlived your usefulness the butler will show you the door. most country's have the same system....try breaking into high society in...say new york or washington or palm beach or beverly hills or toronto or vancouver or ottawa. the only difference is that the upper classes (at lease in north america) wish they had the nobles and aristocrats that the UK has.
__________________
Duchess
  #178  
Old 06-15-2006, 08:33 PM
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: ***, United States
Posts: 16,894
This really isn't the appropriate place for an in-depth discussion of the class system. Could we perhaps get back on topic?

Elspeth

British royals moderator
  #179  
Old 06-19-2006, 02:53 AM
julial's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 237
Camilla, did not come from as good background as Diana... thus, she was not a good match to Charles previously. Now she is the consort of the future king-her status has been elebated by love. Not refering to the Duchess of Cornwall, but I always find it intersting that it is usually those who made it who behave quite snobby than those who are actually born into it.
  #180  
Old 06-19-2006, 02:58 AM
julial's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
Do you think Charles would never have been interested in Camilla if she hasn't been from an aristocratic or gentry background? What about Sarah Ferguson? Sie descends from landed gentry but doesn't behave accordingly. At least in my opinion.

Another view on the British class system: I found it very interesting when I lived for some time in Belsize Village, London that while the British seemed to be very class-conscious they didn't take this attitude on viewing foreigners. At least I never had the feeling that someone did. And due to my profession (I'm a wine and spirits expert) then I had a lot of contacts to people of the upper class as well - both in London and Scotland. Okay, I knew I was judged for who I was - but nobody ever asked about my family background, the way I spoke English and the knowledge in my topic seemed to be enough.
Which I consider a very pleasant way to behave as here in Germany it's mostly money that counts today.
Well Charles did not choose Camilla based on her social status...
I find it interesting that many Brisith gentlemen tend to choose some random Asian women with no particular background as their wives. I guess if you do not come from the same social system, such as being foreigners, it might actually work better in terms of being friendly. People from same background tend to look at each other more harshly because they know too well. One thing I noticed-the ones who are at the top of the social pyramid seem not caring all that much about who they associate, date or marry... look at Frederick, Joachim, Philippe, Max, Hakkon, Victoria, and others... they all choose their partners from non aristocratic background. In fact, those partners’s previous social standing may not even be middle class.

I did not know the social value of Germany was similar to that of the United Sates-the center of Capitalism. Usually countries with longer affluent history value more of culture and class, than those new countries. For example, I was surprised to find out that the country of Liechtenstein is actually quite wealthy yet people seem no need to show off.

In one way or another, I have read that Diana did not behave too upperclass when it concerned about "stiff upper lips" and this was not well-liked by those in the same class, if not royals. Camilla, on the other hand, I read, is more liked by the royal circles due to her maturity and discreetness. Diana was very much liked by people outside of her own class-so she was as political as her counterparts.

__________________

Closed Thread

Tags
camilla, duchess of cornwall, prince charles, prince of wales


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall Current Events 13: March-April 2006 Elspeth Current Events Archive 217 04-17-2006 02:06 AM
Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall Current Events 10: December 2005-January 2006 Elspeth Current Events Archive 181 01-07-2006 01:23 PM
Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall Current Events 3: June-July 2005 Elspeth Current Events Archive 167 07-28-2005 12:30 PM
Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall Current Events 2: May-June 2005 Elspeth Current Events Archive 210 06-21-2005 10:47 AM
Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall Current Events 1: April 9, 2005-May 2005 Elspeth Current Events Archive 196 05-11-2005 11:30 PM




Popular Tags
ascot 2016 best gown best gown september 2016 best hat best outfit catherine middleton style coup d'etat crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mary fashion crown princess mette-marit current events duchess of cambridge duchess of cornwall's fashion e-mail fashion poll germany grand duke jean greece kate middleton king abdullah ii king felipe king felipe vi king willem-alexander member introduction monarchy new zealand nobel gala norway november 2016 october 2016 opening of parliament picture of the week poland state visit to norway prince bernhard prince charles princess madeleine princess marie princess mary princess mary daytime fashion princess mary fashion princess mary hats queen juliana queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen letizia style queen mathilde queen mathildes outfits queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania queen rania in oslo royal fashion september 2016 spencers state visit state visit to denmark succession sweden the duchess of cambridge the duchess of cambridge casual wear the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge fashion the duchess of cambridge hats


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:21 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016
Jelsoft Enterprises