Prince Harry Current Events 23: July 2008-May 2009

[christinacg]

BUT still, you can and should condemn his racist comment!

But the debate is, was it a racist comment? I'm still having a hard time accepting that it was. Maybe I'm as ignorant as you think Harry is, but to me its just another way of saying "Pakistani". And something can be offensive without being racist. I think implying that someone is racist is just as bad as an actual racist word. I would be so incredibly offended if anyone ever insinuated that I was a racist. Its not a label that should be given out lightly. I guess thats why I'm so eager to defend Harry. Too bad Harry will have to live with that label for the rest of his life, regardless of what the truth is.

 

[Mermaid1962]

The word Paki definitely has racist connotations, even here in Canada. It's definitely not a shortened forum of Pakistani. If you used the word here, you'd get jaw-dropped stares. The word is considered even uglier in the UK according to what I've picked up in different articles. Think of racist words that are used to refer to Jews and people of African descent--it's the same thing.

Personally, I doubt that Harry's racist; and I think that he did use the words in joking way. But he should have been aware of what the reaction would be if the tape was made public. He showed a tremendous lack of judgement IMO. He's apologized, and we should take his apology at face value and hope that this sort of thing doesn't happen again.

But the debate is, was it a racist comment? I'm still having a hard time accepting that it was. Maybe I'm as ignorant as you think Harry is, but to me its just another way of saying "Pakistani". .

 

[Idriel]

BUT still, you can and should condemn his racist comment!

A racist comment is a comment meant to demean, insult and trash someones ethnic or racial background.
His comment wasn't racist because his intend wasn't. I wish people would stop acting like it was.

Like the article posted by Little Star rightfully says, racism is an experience, not a word.
It's about being discriminated at work, in a restaurant, about being expelled from your country because you belong the the White minority, about people looking at you queer in airplanes, about being singled out for security searches at airports because you're the only non-Caucasian there, about being bullied at school, about being confronted by perfect strangers in the street, about your boyfriend dumping you because his family won't let him marry a White girl, etc.

I find it simply unacceptable of some people to underestimate the power of humorous racism.

Racism is never humorous. Some jokes are about races. People who tell them may or may not be racist.
Just like some jokes are about sexual orientation/hair colour/ gender.
You may find such jokes distasteful (many people do) but if we start calling anyone who makes a gay joke an homophobe, a Blond joke a sexist or a Jewish joke a antisemite, we won't see the end of it.

I may think that these comments come mostly from people who have never experienced racism, who were never on the other side and who never stood in the focus of such humour.

Everybody has been on the other side. As if racism is the monopole of one ethnicity.
Anyone who lives in a multicultural city has experienced racism. And even if you live in a little town with only 30 people of the same race you have heard it through the media. Have you ever heard an Al-Qaeda broadcast? Nobody needs to be explained what racism and hatred feels like, please stop that patronising.
And do not think for a minute that the British public is nonchalant when it comes to racism. Google Jade Goody to see how real displays of racism is received by the British public.

Racist comments are not tolerable. You are not a racist when you do so, but you are not fun either when you do make such a comment.

I agree with the first part, but not with the second. If you make racist comments, you are racist. Of course racism is in the intend.

He was not charming at all, but nothing more than a silly boy (which is a real shame, because all the expensive education was for nothing). He made not a good laugh. He IS the laugh, which is a shame.

Ah, the bliss of anonymity, where you have the privilege to make your mistakes and amend in private, without the whole word pouring slime upon you and making assumptions about your IQ.
All of those who are calling him an idiot and generally trashing him silly have I am sure never ever said anything that would sound deeply offensive to anyone.
I am glad such persons exist because it liberates the rest of us flawed mortals from the burden of perfection.

Army launches inquiry into who leaked Prince Harry's Paki Video

It is very sad that Harry cannot trust anyone.
I always gives William a hard time for what I percieved to be his paranoia, but I have to admit he probably has the right attitude.

 

[christinacg]

It is very sad that Harry cannot trust anyone.
I always gives William a hard time for what I percieved to be his paranoia, but I have to admit he probably has the right attitude.

Yeah its pretty clear that William is a lot more guarded than his brother. Hopefully he can give him some good advice.

 

[Fay]

Having seen the video I think Harry is exhibiting the usual kind of black humour found in the British Army, but he should know better than to use words like Paki, raghead and queer. I don't buy the he was my friend and nicknamed Paki story, sorry.

 

[ghost_night554]

It is very sad that Harry cannot trust anyone.

That's the one thing that is so sad about this whole thing, I can't believe whoever leaked the video could stoop so low and do such a thing. I believe that it was a nickname, I don't know it's just the tone of his voice but everyone is allowed to have their own opinion I suppose.

 

[MARG]

I hoped it would blow over once he had apologised but it seems to be getting worse...

Only days after the Queen agreed that Prince Harry was sufficiently mature to have his own private office at St James's Palace, he has repaid her trust by plunging the Royal Family into another controversy with his 'Paki' comment.

Prince Harry 'Paki' row: 'He has to learn a painful lesson' - Telegraph

Please correct me if I am wrong but didn't this infamous gaffe occur 3 years ago? And if so, how is that "repaying her trust etc" when he has only been granted a shared private office with his brother this year?

 

[moby]

I also think it was not Harry's intention to offend someone with his comments. I understand the context within which he used those words and if he were a regular person serving in the Army, all this, of course would be a non-issue. I'm not saying that "Paki" won't be as offensive if uttered by anybody else other than a public figure. The reality, however, is that despite the world's seeming obsession with political correctness, especially when it comes to race, a person belonging to a minority will almost always be called "Fl*p" or "P*ki" or "Ch*nk" a few times in his/her life if residing in or traveling to a place where he/she is a part of a racial minority.

Like a lot of people here, what actually surprises me about this incident is that Harry allowed himself to fall into the habit of using those names and worse, to be caught on camera doing so. Unlike him, I'm a private person who doesn't have the limitations that he does but there's no way I would be able to bring myself to refer to a person with a race-related derogatory name, even in jest. I attribute that to my upbringing and education, both of which taught me that using such names expresses ignorance, insensitivity and bad taste. Harry has had people spend thousands of pounds for his upbringing and education but has he learned that simple lesson? Nope. The boy needs to wisen up and fast.

 

[Nitefeatherz]

That's the one thing that is so sad about this whole thing, I can't believe whoever leaked the video could stoop so low and do such a thing. I believe that it was a nickname, I don't know it's just the tone of his voice but everyone is allowed to have their own opinion I suppose.

The prince is adult- if he didn't want it to be seen by others he wouldn't have put it on video much less made copies and given then to others that were with him.

The tone of his voice only tells us that HARRY thought it was amusing... I know personally I have not commented when I was the young, minority woman in the room and all my (male) co-workers were making sexist comments. I didn't complain or speak up because I wanted to get my job done.

Yeah, the guy they are nicknaming can complain but after that he's always going to be marked as a tattletale or a bad sport. I can see why he wouldn't want to piss off someone he is going into combat with who might be watching his back.

IMO they were really asking for this video to be seen. Expecting those that aren't with the troop (or whatever it's called) he was with to understand automatically all the innuendo is a major mistake.

I don't blame whoever put out this video... I blame the people who taped the video to start with. No one forced Prince Harry to make those comments. He is an adult and should be called to answer for his actions whether they are good or bad.

 

[ghost_night554]

Whose to say Harry made copies of the video? As for a complain being made if it truly bothered the guy I don't think he would have kept his mouth shut for so long,considering the way the media works he could have gotten the message across one way or another if he desperately wanted to complain. I don't think Harry ever dreamed of the video leaking let alone such an uproar to be made of it, ya I agree he should have been more careful of the words he used while being on camera but I highly doubt he was trying to offend anyone, yes how can you draw a conclusion from such a short video but at the same time you can't draw conclusions that he was really trying to hurt someone.

 

[MARG]

. . . . . . . Ah, the bliss of anonymity, where you have the privilege to make your mistakes and amend in private, without the whole word pouring slime upon you and making assumptions about your IQ.
All of those who are calling him an idiot and generally trashing him silly have I am sure never ever said anything that would sound deeply offensive to anyone.
I am glad such persons exist because it liberates the rest of us flawed mortals from the burden of perfection.

I would like to say that I am in awe of the way everyone seems to have embraced this "bashing" party with all the fervour of a crusadeing 19th century Methodist minister, but then I'd be displaying outrageous religious predjudice in this oh so very PC world.

It was 3 years ago. Not surprisingly he has grown up a bit (a stint in Afghanistan certainly helped). He apologised. Is this a slow news week or what? Get over it.

Army launches inquiry into who leaked Prince Harry's Paki Video
It is very sad that Harry cannot trust anyone.
I always gives William a hard time for what I percieved to be his paranoia, but I have to admit he probably has the right attitude.

I am glad they are investigating because, regardless of the video's content, 3 years after the fact someone in that class has certainly not conducted himself as an "Officer and Gentleman". They probably made a lot of money but they have also brought the Army into disrepute. Neither greed nor sleeze are desireable traits in an Officer.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

But the debate is, was it a racist comment? I'm still having a hard time accepting that it was. Maybe I'm as ignorant as you think Harry is, but to me its just another way of saying "Pakistani". And something can be offensive without being racist. I think implying that someone is racist is just as bad as an actual racist word. I would be so incredibly offended if anyone ever insinuated that I was a racist. Its not a label that should be given out lightly. I guess thats why I'm so eager to defend Harry. Too bad Harry will have to live with that label for the rest of his life, regardless of what the truth is.

Interesting post. What if Harry had said: Our little Pakistani friend? It would have been the same kind of patronizing comment toward a fellow cadet who has shown to be an over-achiever - he won besides the Overseas Sword three more medals for being best of his platoon. Really, somebody like that must know that he will not always be regarded with sympathy by the others who are not as successful as he is. It is unfair, yes, but that's how psychological interaction works with most people. I mean: for me the "little friend"-comment is derogative, not the reference to the cadet's homecountry and nationality.

 

[Skydragon]

Please correct me if I am wrong but didn't this infamous gaffe occur 3 years ago? And if so, how is that "repaying her trust etc" when he has only been granted a shared private office with his brother this year?

Headlines MARG, just that. The Mail and Sky are still leaping about to continue the story, with interviews here there and everywhere.

It is a nasty word to use, because of the way it was used in the past and by some today. It is not a word I would allow, even in quest but it was 3 blooming years ago.

It is a racist word, not acceptable from anyone let alone an officer, but to call Harry racist, is IMO, wrong.

 

[Skydragon]

What if Harry had said: Our little Pakistani friend? It would have been the same kind of patronizing comment toward a fellow cadet who has shown to be an over-achiever - he won besides the Overseas Sword three more medals for being best of his platoon. Really, somebody like that must know that he will not always be regarded with sympathy by the others who are not as successful as he is. It is unfair, yes, but that's how psychological interaction works with most people. I mean: for me the "little friend"-comment is derogative, not the reference to the cadet's homecountry and nationality.

Yes, I agree with your points. The 'little friend' comment is equally worrying and shows, IMO, that Harry at that time was full of his own self importance. Coupled with the use of P***, it made it so much worse. Some in the UK ridicule Charles, Anne, Andrew and Edward for their 'I demand' attitude, it would be a great pity if Harry and his brother don't learn a little humility before they get too much older, it is after all a sign of a good leader!

 

[Jo of Palatine]

Some in the UK ridicule Charles, Anne, Andrew and Edward for their 'I demand' attitude, it would be a great pity if Harry and his brother don't learn a little humility before they get too much older, it is after all a sign of a good leader!

I recall quite some articles about Harry and the way he behaves when in an official function and the tenor was that he is approachable, nice and overall without any attitudes at all. I don't think you can judge from that one video: really I personally don't think that it was a rascist remark but one of a certain kind of dislike for that one officer who might have appeared to be "teacher's darling". It's often a sign of helplessness when people group up to bark at the heels of somebody who should be an equal but appears to be setting himself up as a superior. I bet Harry has been at the receiving end of similar disdain himself quite often due to his social position, so surely knows how to eat the soup he himself prepared for someone else. It's a lesson he had to learn and maybe this publication of the video was just part of a learning process. We have no idea where he today stands after he has been an officer for some time now and had a stint in a real war zone.

 

[Skydragon]

I recall quite some articles about Harry and the way he behaves when in an official function and the tenor was that he is approachable, nice and overall without any attitudes at all.

Which goes to show there have been some changes since this video was made.

I personally don't think that it was a rascist remark

It was a rascist remark, but not one Harry understood it to be. If I addressed someone from Pakistan in that manner, today in most London shops or offices, I could be reported to the police. As two or three of the commentators have said, he has never been considered the brightest spark.

but one of a certain kind of dislike for that one officer who might have appeared to be "teacher's darling".

A dislike that should have been well hidden, considering his position.

We have no idea where he today stands after he has been an officer for some time now and had a stint in a real war zone.

IMO a war zone for however short a period of time, is a life and attitude changing event, for most people.
---------------------
The more people try to convince others that it is an OK word, the worse the story will become. Here in the UK, as any person should know, it is not acceptable, it is still rife in some of the public schools, ordinary ranks in the forces, among some communities and especially by the BNP.

BUT, this whole thing was three years ago, he has apologised, he can do no more, except learn to choose his 'friends' with more care!

 

[Idriel]

The video shows someone, far from being full of his own importance, who is trying to fit in, to be one of the guys and certainly not stand out in away way beside maybe as the resident clown.
I can't imagine anyone with delusion of grandeur being so colloquial, poking fun at his own grand relations or answering a question about his pubic hair with such self-deprecating humour.
I don' buy for a second the 'envy' theory either. A man in Harry position, born into the highest privileges, has very little to envy, except for normality, which is apparent both in this video an in his general attitude, he craves deeply.

I don't know if this is true considering the source but it sounds plausible and it's the right thing everybody has been expecting him to do:

I'm sorry, pal

The royal is understood to have phoned Captain Ahmed Raza Khan in his native Pakistan to “clear the air”.
And the officer is said to have accepted the apology for comments made by Harry, 24, on a video three years ago.

A survey by onepoll.com found 80 per cent of Brits do not think Harry was being racist.
Wounded hero Ben McBean, 21 — whose bravery in Afghanistan was praised by Harry — also slated claims of racism. The black Royal Marine, of Plymouth, Devon, said “He doesn’t have a bigoted bone in his body.”

 

[Skydragon]

The video shows someone, far from being full of his own importance,

On that, along with P*** being an OK word, we will have to once again agree to disagree. The Sun knows no more than any of the other rags who all 'understand' he has spoken to the young officer. I can't say I have ever heard of onepoll, but I looked at some of their results, but could not find anything about Harry. I would also query the 80% of 'Brits', as I find it hard to believe 80% know of or filled in this survey!

 

[Idriel]

1- My argument wasn't that Paki is an OK word per se but that what makes it racist is the intent behind it, as well as the context.

2- It is plain the eye that this poll was informal. Just like the Times online poll that found that 75% of people didn't think the affair should see him thrown out of the military. However those polls are of interest because, apart from readers comments, they are the only public feedback we have for now, until a serious poll is conducted. I expect of course people to exercise their judgement.

3- I have already stated the source is dubious, I just thought it was worth posting, if only for Ben's quote.

As often, you misread/dumb down my posts or read too much into them.

 

[tommy1716]

Dink dink, round two.....
Fresh Royal racism row: The Indian polo pal Charles, William and Harry call 'Sooty' | Mail Online

New row over 'Sooty' nickname | The Sun |News|Royals

 

[Warren]

As usual with a media-driven story, it gets pushed one stage too far so that the whole thing collapses into politically-correct absurdity.

From the headline...
Fresh Royal racism row as Princes call Indian polo friend 'Sooty'

we have these quotes:
Kolin Dhillon is a member of the Cirencester Polo Club along with the three royals. According to other members of the club, 'Sooty" is 'an affectionate nickname' to which Dhillon does not take offence.

"Charles, along with both of his boys, have called this chap Sooty because it is his nickname and he is perfectly comfortable with it. To me, this shows what a nonsense this brouhaha over what Harry said really is. They are no more racists than I am and I use the word to address this chap whenever I see him too."

So that puts that one into perspective.

Now, getting back to Harry, we have this latest piece of bureaucratic self-important pomposity:

The Equality and Human Rights Commission has asked the Ministry of Defence for details of what action will be taken against the prince.

God forbid the feigned outrage if it ever became known that a member of the Royal Family had a dog or cat named Blackie. Then we'd have the RSPCA and PETA doing handstands on the bandwagon, along with all the other usual suspects.

 

[Skydragon]

1- My argument wasn't that Paki is an OK word per se but that what makes it racist is the intent behind it, as well as the context.
2- It is plain the eye that this poll was informal. Just like the Times online poll that found that 75% of people didn't think the affair should see him thrown out of the military. However those polls are of interest because, apart from readers comments, they are the only public feedback we have for now, until a serious poll is conducted. I expect of course people to exercise their judgement.
3- I have already stated the source is dubious, I just thought it was worth posting, if only for Ben's quote.
As often, you misread/dumb down my posts or read too much into them.

I am sorry if you saw it as such. To me and IMO many others, the use of the word is offensive especially those who have been on the receiving end, regardless of intent. When I looked at the link you kindly supplied, I could not find anything on Harry, a simple fact, as was the information that it was not one I had heard of. Until the link is used to get to the site, it is not plain that the poll was informal. As with any poll, on any subject, it is an over exaggeration to say it speaks for a percentage of the population with any degree of accuracy. Even the Times online poll can, if you clear your cookies each time, be voted on more than once by the same person. All anyone can do is exercise their own judgment with these polls and articles and as I keep saying it was three years ago, he has said sorry, it should now be put to bed.
I saw that you had wondered about the accuracy of the article in the Sun, which was why I replied that the Sun probably has no extra knowledge than any of the other papers who are continuing the story.

 

[Skydragon]

As usual with a media-driven story, it gets pushed one stage too far so that the whole thing collapses into politically-correct absurdity.

Bandwagon time

The Equality and Human Rights Commission has asked the Ministry of Defence for details of what action will be taken against the prince.

Surely such information 'should' be classified!

The latest on the 'scandal' concerning Charles...

The Prince of Wales has been described as a man of "zero prejudice" by the Asian friend he calls "Sooty".

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090113/tuk-friend-defends-charles-in-race-row-6323e80.html

 

[BeatrixFan]

My take on this is simple. I have alot of gay friends and one of them is as camp as a row of pink tents so we call him 'Butch'. He isn't offended by it, he even signs his Christmas cards 'Butch'. There's the potential for him to be upset by the nickname but as he's fine with it, we use it and we made sure he didn't react badly the first time the nickname was coined. Same situation here. If the intention is to offend then it's wrong, if the intention is simply a pet name I see no problem with it.

What I do find ridiculous is that Harry would call someone a paki on camera when he knew that it'd end up being shown and that he'd look like a racist - again. Silly boy.

 

[Skydragon]

That's the thing though, you checked with your friend and he didn't mind, this was a name apparently used without J.O. Khans knowledge. To film himself making such remarks was ridiculous, silly boy indeed

 

[Lilla]

I am glad they are investigating because, regardless of the video's content, 3 years after the fact someone in that class has certainly not conducted himself as an "Officer and Gentleman". They probably made a lot of money but they have also brought the Army into disrepute. Neither greed nor sleeze are desireable traits in an Officer.

I absolutly agree MARG. Nomatter what Harry have said on the video and nomater which motives people prefere to impute to him - the rotten egg(s) in the Armys nest is the one (those) who leaked the video - not Harry, IMO.

 

[misselle]

Another story,this time,concerning Charles...is it a slow newsday or something?
It's always a good idea to ask a person what they think of a nickname.I've been monitoring the story about Harry and other people's opinions on it and it is very clear to me that too many people aren't aware of the history behind some of these "nicknames."If these unaware people realized that some of these names were used to separate and make others feel inferior,disrespected,inhuman...maybe they wouldn't use these words.Am I the only person who can remember the times of Jim Crow laws,where things were separate an unequal...Right now,as I type this,I can remember a picture I saw in the papers,taken during a Civil Rights March,an elderly black man carrying a sign that read "I AM a man."Names do hurt!
Harry has apologized;he hopefully understands.As a royal,he was supposedly reared to have the best of manners;as an officer he does need to be a gentleman.

 

[Naggi]

From hero to zero - Prince Harry's fall from grace - New Zealand, world, sport, business & entertainment news on Stuff.co.nz

 

[Naggi]

But the debate is, was it a racist comment? I'm still having a hard time accepting that it was. Maybe I'm as ignorant as you think Harry is, but to me its just another way of saying "Pakistani". And something can be offensive without being racist. I think implying that someone is racist is just as bad as an actual racist word. I would be so incredibly offended if anyone ever insinuated that I was a racist. Its not a label that should be given out lightly. I guess thats why I'm so eager to defend Harry. Too bad Harry will have to live with that label for the rest of his life, regardless of what the truth is.

I do not think at all you are ignorant christinacg, but maybe you are not a Pakistani?

But I think it was a racist commend, without telling he is a racist.

 

[Roslyn]

If the incident had happened last week, I'd understand the kerfuffle, but it happened three years ago - three years ago!!

Harry shouldn't have said those things, but he was three years younger then, and handn't been to war. I think he's grown up a lot, and shouldn't be tarred and feathered because of something foolish he did three years ago. He's apologised and the hounds should be called off.