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  #281  
Old 01-13-2009, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
. . . . . . . Ah, the bliss of anonymity, where you have the privilege to make your mistakes and amend in private, without the whole word pouring slime upon you and making assumptions about your IQ.
All of those who are calling him an idiot and generally trashing him silly have I am sure never ever said anything that would sound deeply offensive to anyone.
I am glad such persons exist because it liberates the rest of us flawed mortals from the burden of perfection.
I would like to say that I am in awe of the way everyone seems to have embraced this "bashing" party with all the fervour of a crusadeing 19th century Methodist minister, but then I'd be displaying outrageous religious predjudice in this oh so very PC world.

It was 3 years ago. Not surprisingly he has grown up a bit (a stint in Afghanistan certainly helped). He apologised. Is this a slow news week or what? Get over it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
Army launches inquiry into who leaked Prince Harry's Paki Video
It is very sad that Harry cannot trust anyone.
I always gives William a hard time for what I percieved to be his paranoia, but I have to admit he probably has the right attitude.
I am glad they are investigating because, regardless of the video's content, 3 years after the fact someone in that class has certainly not conducted himself as an "Officer and Gentleman". They probably made a lot of money but they have also brought the Army into disrepute. Neither greed nor sleeze are desireable traits in an Officer.
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  #282  
Old 01-13-2009, 04:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christinacg View Post
But the debate is, was it a racist comment? I'm still having a hard time accepting that it was. Maybe I'm as ignorant as you think Harry is, but to me its just another way of saying "Pakistani". And something can be offensive without being racist. I think implying that someone is racist is just as bad as an actual racist word. I would be so incredibly offended if anyone ever insinuated that I was a racist. Its not a label that should be given out lightly. I guess thats why I'm so eager to defend Harry. Too bad Harry will have to live with that label for the rest of his life, regardless of what the truth is.
Interesting post. What if Harry had said: Our little Pakistani friend? It would have been the same kind of patronizing comment toward a fellow cadet who has shown to be an over-achiever - he won besides the Overseas Sword three more medals for being best of his platoon. Really, somebody like that must know that he will not always be regarded with sympathy by the others who are not as successful as he is. It is unfair, yes, but that's how psychological interaction works with most people. I mean: for me the "little friend"-comment is derogative, not the reference to the cadet's homecountry and nationality.
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  #283  
Old 01-13-2009, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Please correct me if I am wrong but didn't this infamous gaffe occur 3 years ago? And if so, how is that "repaying her trust etc" when he has only been granted a shared private office with his brother this year?
Headlines MARG, just that. The Mail and Sky are still leaping about to continue the story, with interviews here there and everywhere.

It is a nasty word to use, because of the way it was used in the past and by some today. It is not a word I would allow, even in quest but it was 3 blooming years ago.

It is a racist word, not acceptable from anyone let alone an officer, but to call Harry racist, is IMO, wrong.
  #284  
Old 01-13-2009, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
What if Harry had said: Our little Pakistani friend? It would have been the same kind of patronizing comment toward a fellow cadet who has shown to be an over-achiever - he won besides the Overseas Sword three more medals for being best of his platoon. Really, somebody like that must know that he will not always be regarded with sympathy by the others who are not as successful as he is. It is unfair, yes, but that's how psychological interaction works with most people. I mean: for me the "little friend"-comment is derogative, not the reference to the cadet's homecountry and nationality.
Yes, I agree with your points. The 'little friend' comment is equally worrying and shows, IMO, that Harry at that time was full of his own self importance. Coupled with the use of P***, it made it so much worse. Some in the UK ridicule Charles, Anne, Andrew and Edward for their 'I demand' attitude, it would be a great pity if Harry and his brother don't learn a little humility before they get too much older, it is after all a sign of a good leader!
  #285  
Old 01-13-2009, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Some in the UK ridicule Charles, Anne, Andrew and Edward for their 'I demand' attitude, it would be a great pity if Harry and his brother don't learn a little humility before they get too much older, it is after all a sign of a good leader!
I recall quite some articles about Harry and the way he behaves when in an official function and the tenor was that he is approachable, nice and overall without any attitudes at all. I don't think you can judge from that one video: really I personally don't think that it was a rascist remark but one of a certain kind of dislike for that one officer who might have appeared to be "teacher's darling". It's often a sign of helplessness when people group up to bark at the heels of somebody who should be an equal but appears to be setting himself up as a superior. I bet Harry has been at the receiving end of similar disdain himself quite often due to his social position, so surely knows how to eat the soup he himself prepared for someone else. It's a lesson he had to learn and maybe this publication of the video was just part of a learning process. We have no idea where he today stands after he has been an officer for some time now and had a stint in a real war zone.
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  #286  
Old 01-13-2009, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
I recall quite some articles about Harry and the way he behaves when in an official function and the tenor was that he is approachable, nice and overall without any attitudes at all.
Which goes to show there have been some changes since this video was made.
Quote:
I personally don't think that it was a rascist remark
It was a rascist remark, but not one Harry understood it to be. If I addressed someone from Pakistan in that manner, today in most London shops or offices, I could be reported to the police. As two or three of the commentators have said, he has never been considered the brightest spark.
Quote:
but one of a certain kind of dislike for that one officer who might have appeared to be "teacher's darling".
A dislike that should have been well hidden, considering his position.
Quote:
We have no idea where he today stands after he has been an officer for some time now and had a stint in a real war zone.
IMO a war zone for however short a period of time, is a life and attitude changing event, for most people.
---------------------
The more people try to convince others that it is an OK word, the worse the story will become. Here in the UK, as any person should know, it is not acceptable, it is still rife in some of the public schools, ordinary ranks in the forces, among some communities and especially by the BNP.

BUT, this whole thing was three years ago, he has apologised, he can do no more, except learn to choose his 'friends' with more care!
  #287  
Old 01-13-2009, 08:51 AM
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The video shows someone, far from being full of his own importance, who is trying to fit in, to be one of the guys and certainly not stand out in away way beside maybe as the resident clown.
I can't imagine anyone with delusion of grandeur being so colloquial, poking fun at his own grand relations or answering a question about his pubic hair with such self-deprecating humour.
I don' buy for a second the 'envy' theory either. A man in Harry position, born into the highest privileges, has very little to envy, except for normality, which is apparent both in this video an in his general attitude, he craves deeply.

I don't know if this is true considering the source but it sounds plausible and it's the right thing everybody has been expecting him to do:

I'm sorry, pal

Quote:
The royal is understood to have phoned Captain Ahmed Raza Khan in his native Pakistan to “clear the air”.
And the officer is said to have accepted the apology for comments made by Harry, 24, on a video three years ago.
Quote:
A survey by onepoll.com found 80 per cent of Brits do not think Harry was being racist.
Wounded hero Ben McBean, 21 — whose bravery in Afghanistan was praised by Harry — also slated claims of racism. The black Royal Marine, of Plymouth, Devon, said “He doesn’t have a bigoted bone in his body.”
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  #288  
Old 01-13-2009, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
The video shows someone, far from being full of his own importance,
On that, along with P*** being an OK word, we will have to once again agree to disagree. The Sun knows no more than any of the other rags who all 'understand' he has spoken to the young officer. I can't say I have ever heard of onepoll, but I looked at some of their results, but could not find anything about Harry. I would also query the 80% of 'Brits', as I find it hard to believe 80% know of or filled in this survey!
  #289  
Old 01-13-2009, 09:39 AM
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1- My argument wasn't that Paki is an OK word per se but that what makes it racist is the intent behind it, as well as the context.

2- It is plain the eye that this poll was informal. Just like the Times online poll that found that 75% of people didn't think the affair should see him thrown out of the military. However those polls are of interest because, apart from readers comments, they are the only public feedback we have for now, until a serious poll is conducted. I expect of course people to exercise their judgement.

3- I have already stated the source is dubious, I just thought it was worth posting, if only for Ben's quote.

As often, you misread/dumb down my posts or read too much into them.
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  #290  
Old 01-13-2009, 09:55 AM
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Dink dink, round two.....
Fresh Royal racism row: The Indian polo pal Charles, William and Harry call 'Sooty' | Mail Online

New row over 'Sooty' nickname | The Sun |News|Royals
  #291  
Old 01-13-2009, 10:36 AM
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As usual with a media-driven story, it gets pushed one stage too far so that the whole thing collapses into politically-correct absurdity.

From the headline...
Fresh Royal racism row as Princes call Indian polo friend 'Sooty'

we have these quotes:
Kolin Dhillon is a member of the Cirencester Polo Club along with the three royals. According to other members of the club, 'Sooty" is 'an affectionate nickname' to which Dhillon does not take offence.

"Charles, along with both of his boys, have called this chap Sooty because it is his nickname and he is perfectly comfortable with it. To me, this shows what a nonsense this brouhaha over what Harry said really is. They are no more racists than I am and I use the word to address this chap whenever I see him too."

So that puts that one into perspective.

Now, getting back to Harry, we have this latest piece of bureaucratic self-important pomposity:

The Equality and Human Rights Commission has asked the Ministry of Defence for details of what action will be taken against the prince.

God forbid the feigned outrage if it ever became known that a member of the Royal Family had a dog or cat named Blackie. Then we'd have the RSPCA and PETA doing handstands on the bandwagon, along with all the other usual suspects.
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  #292  
Old 01-13-2009, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
1- My argument wasn't that Paki is an OK word per se but that what makes it racist is the intent behind it, as well as the context.
2- It is plain the eye that this poll was informal. Just like the Times online poll that found that 75% of people didn't think the affair should see him thrown out of the military. However those polls are of interest because, apart from readers comments, they are the only public feedback we have for now, until a serious poll is conducted. I expect of course people to exercise their judgement.
3- I have already stated the source is dubious, I just thought it was worth posting, if only for Ben's quote.
As often, you misread/dumb down my posts or read too much into them.
I am sorry if you saw it as such. To me and IMO many others, the use of the word is offensive especially those who have been on the receiving end, regardless of intent. When I looked at the link you kindly supplied, I could not find anything on Harry, a simple fact, as was the information that it was not one I had heard of. Until the link is used to get to the site, it is not plain that the poll was informal. As with any poll, on any subject, it is an over exaggeration to say it speaks for a percentage of the population with any degree of accuracy. Even the Times online poll can, if you clear your cookies each time, be voted on more than once by the same person. All anyone can do is exercise their own judgment with these polls and articles and as I keep saying it was three years ago, he has said sorry, it should now be put to bed.
I saw that you had wondered about the accuracy of the article in the Sun, which was why I replied that the Sun probably has no extra knowledge than any of the other papers who are continuing the story.
  #293  
Old 01-13-2009, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren View Post
As usual with a media-driven story, it gets pushed one stage too far so that the whole thing collapses into politically-correct absurdity.
Bandwagon time
Quote:
The Equality and Human Rights Commission has asked the Ministry of Defence for details of what action will be taken against the prince.
Surely such information 'should' be classified!

The latest on the 'scandal' concerning Charles...

The Prince of Wales has been described as a man of "zero prejudice" by the Asian friend he calls "Sooty".

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090113...w-6323e80.html
  #294  
Old 01-13-2009, 11:51 AM
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My take on this is simple. I have alot of gay friends and one of them is as camp as a row of pink tents so we call him 'Butch'. He isn't offended by it, he even signs his Christmas cards 'Butch'. There's the potential for him to be upset by the nickname but as he's fine with it, we use it and we made sure he didn't react badly the first time the nickname was coined. Same situation here. If the intention is to offend then it's wrong, if the intention is simply a pet name I see no problem with it.

What I do find ridiculous is that Harry would call someone a paki on camera when he knew that it'd end up being shown and that he'd look like a racist - again. Silly boy.
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  #295  
Old 01-13-2009, 12:32 PM
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That's the thing though, you checked with your friend and he didn't mind, this was a name apparently used without J.O. Khans knowledge. To film himself making such remarks was ridiculous, silly boy indeed
  #296  
Old 01-13-2009, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
I am glad they are investigating because, regardless of the video's content, 3 years after the fact someone in that class has certainly not conducted himself as an "Officer and Gentleman". They probably made a lot of money but they have also brought the Army into disrepute. Neither greed nor sleeze are desireable traits in an Officer.
I absolutly agree MARG. Nomatter what Harry have said on the video and nomater which motives people prefere to impute to him - the rotten egg(s) in the Armys nest is the one (those) who leaked the video - not Harry, IMO.
  #297  
Old 01-13-2009, 02:57 PM
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Another story,this time,concerning Charles...is it a slow newsday or something?
It's always a good idea to ask a person what they think of a nickname.I've been monitoring the story about Harry and other people's opinions on it and it is very clear to me that too many people aren't aware of the history behind some of these "nicknames."If these unaware people realized that some of these names were used to separate and make others feel inferior,disrespected,inhuman...maybe they wouldn't use these words.Am I the only person who can remember the times of Jim Crow laws,where things were separate an unequal...Right now,as I type this,I can remember a picture I saw in the papers,taken during a Civil Rights March,an elderly black man carrying a sign that read "I AM a man."Names do hurt!
Harry has apologized;he hopefully understands.As a royal,he was supposedly reared to have the best of manners;as an officer he does need to be a gentleman.
  #298  
Old 01-13-2009, 05:40 PM
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From hero to zero - Prince Harry's fall from grace - New Zealand, world, sport, business & entertainment news on Stuff.co.nz
  #299  
Old 01-13-2009, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christinacg View Post
But the debate is, was it a racist comment? I'm still having a hard time accepting that it was. Maybe I'm as ignorant as you think Harry is, but to me its just another way of saying "Pakistani". And something can be offensive without being racist. I think implying that someone is racist is just as bad as an actual racist word. I would be so incredibly offended if anyone ever insinuated that I was a racist. Its not a label that should be given out lightly. I guess thats why I'm so eager to defend Harry. Too bad Harry will have to live with that label for the rest of his life, regardless of what the truth is.
I do not think at all you are ignorant christinacg, but maybe you are not a Pakistani?

But I think it was a racist commend, without telling he is a racist.
  #300  
Old 01-13-2009, 06:10 PM
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If the incident had happened last week, I'd understand the kerfuffle, but it happened three years ago - three years ago!!

Harry shouldn't have said those things, but he was three years younger then, and handn't been to war. I think he's grown up a lot, and shouldn't be tarred and feathered because of something foolish he did three years ago. He's apologised and the hounds should be called off.
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