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  #201  
Old 01-11-2009, 07:29 PM
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^^^ it has been confirmed by army people interviewed for articles and in the comment sections of news websites. I also have a couple of Army friends who have told me as much (about the kind of raucous behaviour and language that goes on behind doors).

You may have a different experience, I understand the British army isn't a monolithic block and maybe I should not have used 'most' (I didn't use 'anyone'). Maybe 'many' is more appropriate.

Bullying, intimidation, harassment, racial hatred an vicious behavior are of course unacceptable and offensive, and the army has rightly been fighting against such derives and abuses. And Harry would certainly not be receiving the kind of public support he has so far enjoyed if that what was the video depicted.
There has been incident of disgusting videos showing army recruits being degraded and humiliated (verbally and physically) and not a word of defence for the bullies was heard.
You are talking about a very different phenomenon here.
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  #202  
Old 01-11-2009, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
It was a stupid thing to say, deeply offensive, (if any of mine said that, their OC would be the easy option), but the media seem to be making a meal out of it. The more excuses people make, the longer the story will run. He has said he is sorry therefore he has accepted it was wrong, what more can he do.
I think the RF will try to say as little as possible in the hopes of letting the story die down as soon as possible.

If Ahmed is indeed hurt by this, I think Harry should apologize to him in person or over the phone. If they were friends during the training I'm sure Ahmed will accept the apology.
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  #203  
Old 01-11-2009, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
No complaint has yet been filed, but because this is so public, the Army has no option but to investigate. The Mail article is wrong as it says he will be given a severe dressing down this week, I don't think the investigation has yet been held.

It was a stupid thing to say, deeply offensive, (if any of mine said that, their OC would be the easy option), but the media seem to be making a meal out of it. The more excuses people make, the longer the story will run. He has said he is sorry therefore he has accepted it was wrong, what more can he do.
Thanks for explaining it, the Mail seriously try and confuse you with their headlines, I didn't have a good read I just skimmed through the first few lines.
  #204  
Old 01-11-2009, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel View Post
it has been confirmed by army people interviewed for articles and in the comment sections of news websites.
It is never wise to rely on blogs or comment sections, taking one comment I saw, the person says he had a swarthy complexion and so was called 'Darkie', of course we have no idea if he was in the Army, least of all his rank. It is bad enough coming from the ranks, but more is expected of officers.

Harry made a mistake, he has apologised, which is a darn site more than many do!
  #205  
Old 01-11-2009, 07:46 PM
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What worries me more than what he said is the fact that he said it with a camera present. Like with the vodka snorting incident, I think that shows much more about his judgment than the actual incident. For anyone, and especially a person in his position where the people who are going to care number in the millions, you don't do anything on camera, even if you trust the person doing it at the time being, that you don't want everyone to find out about. Hopefully he's learned that in the intervening three years, though.
  #206  
Old 01-11-2009, 07:53 PM
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The News seems to always make big deals out of everything,although I See their point in respect I Just hope the Monarchy can survive as long as possible.
  #207  
Old 01-11-2009, 08:11 PM
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What Harry did was foolish and immature, IMO. A lot has happened in his life since then, and he has grown up a lot and has been to war. I bet he regrets that he said what he said, and particularly that the incident was recorded.

I can't get excited about what he said though. It's all very well and good and politically correct to say we shouldn't make racist remarks, or remarks that might be taken to be racist, but that overlooks the fact that we are human beings with thousands of years of human history beind us. We come from tribes and nations which have historical differences and fears and even hatreds of other groups, and till quite recently racism was a normal part of life, practised at official level.

Because of migration, these days we sometimes find ourselves brought together into groups comprising people from vastly different racial and cultural backgrounds. It's difficult to homogenise a heterogeneous group of people, and not within one or two generations, and there are going to be "incidents".

When in the relaxed safety of a trusted number of our own social and cultural group, many of us say things to each other which we would not say in groups of the general public, and which could well be taken to be racist or at least ethnocentric. I certainly do, and so do many of my friends, but no-one is interested enough in what we say to record it and publish it.

Harry has to accept that people do want to publish what he says and does, so he has to be particularly careful and has to regard all video and sound recording devices with deep suspicion, and be on his guard and not do or say anything in the vicinity of such things that he would not like printed on the front page of the paper. Better still, much safer to not do or say anything anywhere that he would not like to see on the front page of the paper, because with the tiny recording devices like mobile phones that people have now, he can never be sure what's being recorded. This restriction is one of the prices he has to pay for being who he is.

But it happened three years ago! Too long to dredge up now. He's probably already learnt the lesson I'm talking about. The wretched paper would have known what the knee-jerk reaction would be, and is probably enjoying it.
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  #208  
Old 01-11-2009, 08:16 PM
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This has occurred to me as well. Harry is 24 years old now, and his behaviour can no longer be excused on the basis of youthful highjinks.

I am glad that he apologized, but notice that he again used that "if" that was used in his apology about the Nazi uniform. Does he really think that there are large number of people who DON'T find this language offensive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wbenson View Post
What worries me more than what he said is the fact that he said it with a camera present. Like with the vodka snorting incident, I think that shows much more about his judgment than the actual incident.
  #209  
Old 01-11-2009, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
This has occurred to me as well. Harry is 24 years old now, and his behaviour can no longer be excused on the basis of youthful highjinks.
Keep in mind, he was 21 at the time, if that makes much of a difference.
  #210  
Old 01-11-2009, 08:43 PM
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Good point about the presence of the camera, wbenson. You would think that someone who has been so subject to the media glare throughout his life would be more guarded around cameras. I think the whole thing is just incredibly unfortunate. He should really, really know better.
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  #211  
Old 01-11-2009, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Incas View Post
I am as mystified as many posters on newspapers websites. What's so derogatory about "Paki", compared to Yanks or Brits? I'm curious as to what other short versions of foreign nationals are banned in Britain.
The racial connotations of the word "P*ki" are totally different to words like Brits or Aussies which have no "colour" attached.

Since the 1960's it's a racist slur that has been used against immigrants from South Asia (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh) without compunction. Sadly it's an insult that not only my parents had to face but one that I've had hurled in my face on several incredibly unpleasant occasions in the past.

I find it incredibly disturbing that people are trying to justify this as just a joke or "highjinks" on his part. Moreover it's not the only racist term he uses on the video, opting for the rather awful "r*ghead" in another clip.

Imo, it seems to demonstrate a rather worrying side to Harry's nature that he thinks it's ok to use such words and phrases.
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  #212  
Old 01-11-2009, 09:27 PM
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True. Very true. I only hope that Harry has matured during that time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by christinacg View Post
Keep in mind, he was 21 at the time, if that makes much of a difference.
  #213  
Old 01-11-2009, 09:28 PM
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I've never lived in the UK, but even I know that P**i is an offensive term.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star View Post
The racial connotations of the word "P*ki" are totally different to words like Brits or Aussies which have no "colour" attached.

Since the 1960's it's a racist slur that has been used against immigrants from South Asia (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh) without compunction. Sadly it's an insult that not only my parents had to face but one that I've had hurled in my face on several incredibly unpleasant occasions in the past.

I find it incredibly disturbing that people are trying to justify this as just a joke or "highjinks" on his part. Moreover it's not the only racist term he uses on the video, opting for the rather awful "r*ghead" in another clip.

Imo, it seems to demonstrate a rather worrying side to Harry's nature that he thinks it's ok to use such words and phrases.
  #214  
Old 01-11-2009, 09:41 PM
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I found this article which reinforces your view about how history influences how people understand certain words. It's quite interesting.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article5496878.ece

What I find disturbing is that Prince Harry, as a Prince of the UK, represents The Queen, who is the Head of the Commonwealth, an organization made of of many different nations and ethnic groups. IOW He should have known better. The more I think about this incident, the more it bothers me.

I'm pleased that his apology came so swiftly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sthreats View Post
How does anyone judge any event except on their personal experience and by their reading of history and current events?CH issued a statement that Ahmed was his friend and that Paki was a group nickname. Whether just Harry said it or 30 people said it --its not right.
  #215  
Old 01-11-2009, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
I've never lived in the UK, but even I know that P**i is an offensive term.
I honestly had never known that it was used offensively until yesterday. But since it seems that its more commonly used that way in GB, I'm guessing Harry should have know it could be offensive.

I wonder how Harry spent his day, and what his father and grandmother have said to him about it. I'd love to be a fly on the wall.
  #216  
Old 01-11-2009, 10:49 PM
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Is it just me who finds that fact that Harry allowed himself, indeed filmed HIMSELF, making such comments immensely stupid. As many people have pointed out - these comments were made in "private", several peopl have even said that the comments are not offensive ony becuase they were made in private and taht had they made at, for example, an offical event, then they would be deemed racist. Why did Harry allow for the film to be made with him using such language? Even if that language is acceptable in his opinion to use with his friends surley he must have realised that such comments can be seen as racist and that are therfore not the best thing to have on camera.
given the phope bugging controversys of his parents, of William and himself via their staff and the many many cases of embarrasing videos being leaked out to media outlets in the world of well known people and celebrities you would like ot think Harry wouldn't have allowed himself to be filmed using such language even if it was for private use.
  #217  
Old 01-11-2009, 11:12 PM
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Until Harry's tape, I never heard anybody but Pakis use the term Paki and I'm sure they didn't mean it offensively.

So I was a bit confused about this incident. Perhaps the term has different connotations in Britain but here we don't hear it that much except from the people themselves.
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  #218  
Old 01-11-2009, 11:14 PM
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Harry seems, to me, to have been a young man who hasn't considered the effects of what he says and what he does, nor has he realized that his actions may have become public at some point. I am putting all this in the past tense, because I dearly hope that Harry has matured since putting in his time in Afghanistan. Whether made in public or in private, the language he used throughout the video was offensive.

I wonder why News of the World didn't include the latter part of the tape, which included the part with him picking on the other guy in a way that questioned his buddy's sexuality. Would that have been too "hot to handle", even for a tabloid like NotW?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy1716 View Post
Is it just me who finds that fact that Harry allowed himself, indeed filmed HIMSELF, making such comments immensely stupid. As many people have pointed out - these comments were made in "private", several peopl have even said that the comments are not offensive ony becuase they were made in private and taht had they made at, for example, an offical event, then they would be deemed racist. Why did Harry allow for the film to be made with him using such language? Even if that language is acceptable in his opinion to use with his friends surley he must have realised that such comments can be seen as racist and that are therfore not the best thing to have on camera.
given the phope bugging controversys of his parents, of William and himself via their staff and the many many cases of embarrasing videos being leaked out to media outlets in the world of well known people and celebrities you would like ot think Harry wouldn't have allowed himself to be filmed using such language even if it was for private use.
  #219  
Old 01-11-2009, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
Perhaps the term has different connotations in Britain but here we don't hear it that much except from the people themselves.
It does have very different connotations in Britain.
  #220  
Old 01-11-2009, 11:52 PM
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I thought it was hilarious, good on him for being just one of the boys and joining in. Harry didn't take offense when asked the very last question and I don't suppose any of the other people in his platoon (if that is what they are)
took offense at his banter.
Being a video that was taken three years ago I think the media needs to find something more important to report on.
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