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  #761  
Old 01-26-2013, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Bingo !!!!! We have a winner.
AMEN!!! I wholeheartedly agree
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  #762  
Old 01-26-2013, 11:21 PM
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The Taliban picked up on and inflated Harry's remarks as part of their propaganda machine. They like to underscore that "foreign" fighters have mental problems.
That so many Western news sources have jumped on their bandwagon seems very stupid and naive to me.
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  #763  
Old 01-26-2013, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
The backlash, if there is one, indicates a problem with the general public, IMO, not with Harry or anything he said. The problem is not Harry talking about killing, (flippantly or otherwise), the problem is that we live in a time when civilians are able to completely bury their heads in the sand about the reality of what soldiers do. The vast majority of citizens in Western democracies are able to go their entire lives knowing that they'll never be called to serve in defence of their country; advances in technology and changes in the nature of warfare itself have given civilians the luxury of ignorance. We want soldiers to do whatever they have to do to enable us to maintain our safety and our luxurious standards of living, but we don't want to hear about their experiences unless they've worked with a team of public relations experts beforehand to make sure both their stories and their attitudes convey exactly what we want to hear.
On the contrary, I believe civilians know only too well these days what the reality is of what soldiers do. Soldiers have guns, and their job is to kill. We see them doing it in on TV: in news, documentaries, TV dramas and movies.

As for the second part I've highlighted, the statement in question overlooks the important fact that we are only talking about one soldier: the Queen's grandson, Prince Henry of Wales, who is not an ordinary soldier. No-one is suggesting that soldiers in general, or even Harry specifically, should only be interviewed about their experiences after working with "a team of public relations experts". It has, however, been recognised in this thread that soldiers returning from war zones need to go through debriefing or decompression, or whatever the word for it is today, in order to help them deal with their experiences and help them assimilate back into ordinary life, and how to talk about what they have been doing with people who were not there is part of this process.

An ordinary soldier would not have been placed in the situation of having to give such an interview while still in the war zone. Harry was required to give these interviews as a condition of him being able to do what he wanted to do. I think that was an appalling condition to impose upon him, however he accepted it. Now Harry is not known for his maturity or discretion, and to allow him to do an interview while still in the war zone was a bad decision, IMO, but having done so the MoD should have ensured he was prepared properly. If he had been prepared properly he would not have made flippant remarks because he would have realised how insensitive, or just plain inappropriate, they may seem in context. Or at least I hope not.
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  #764  
Old 01-27-2013, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post

Had to hunt and seek for a bit as I had just vaguely remembered hearing about troops training with war game simulators. Mind you, this is US military and may not be the same for the UK but I wouldn't be surprised if the UK military also uses these methods.

Soldiers play war games with computerized simulators | Article | The United States Army
The British army uses them too.
The friend I mentioned before told me about them. He said the soldiers (also) use them as a way to mentally cope with the things they saw and did. They could focus all of their frustration and anger on the game, so that they could be in control of themselves in real life.

And no, I don't see my friend as a murderer! Though technically he is, no matter how hard and complicated the circumstances he has been in. Killing is killing.
It's a very painful thought, but it is reality.
I would trust my friend with my life though. Which is not something I would do with the people that go and shoot others here in our society.
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  #765  
Old 01-27-2013, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Elenath View Post
I couldn't help it... This conjured up some image of them being send to the naughty chair. Perhaps we should send Supernanny...
Ha! Ha! Ha! The Supernanny disciplining the taliban, I'd pay to see that!!
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  #766  
Old 01-27-2013, 10:20 AM
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Forgive me but for all of the criticism of what he did say no one has made a suggestion of what he should have said. Perhaps he should have spoken of the "wonderful scenery from on high" whilst inside the helicopter? Or maybe his seating arrangement is definitely more comfortable than riding a horse because the helicopter is more 'obedient.' Being a royal prince and a soldier he could have worn the ceremonial uniform of his regiment saber, gloves and all for the interviews. He should have joked that he wanted the helicopter to be one of his protection officers. Any other suggestions? Oh yes here's a good one I'm sure his grandfather would love to have a go in one of the helicopters. By the way if anyone gets the chance would they tally the cons of him not serving in Afghanistan and the ones for him serving in Afghanistan. Maybe that has something to do with his frostiness with the press.
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  #767  
Old 01-27-2013, 10:30 AM
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I think we all understand why Henry is frosty with the media but it is because of its evident display that his interviews are now being dissected. The media will pay him back, I think and he should have known that. I have no advice for him with regards to that. I would find it impossible to hide my contempt but I do hope I would be better at learning my lessons.
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  #768  
Old 01-27-2013, 11:08 AM
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The Telegraph weighs in on Harry's remarks. the uk press will all show their displeasure with Harry's comments regarding them one way or another

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...nce-Harry.html
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  #769  
Old 01-27-2013, 11:11 AM
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I'd really like to find out how many hours of interviews he did, with how many interviewers - as well as how long the cameras had access. I originally thought it was a couple of hours of sit down. As more and more reports get filed, and pics come out, it seems there was much more of Harry's time required and any number of interviewers.

The longer he talked, the greater the likelihood that he would say something that made for a ratty soundbite. I also agree with those who have mentioned that the MOD did not seem to have prepped him for the interviews - and should have. Shame on them.

The difference could have been that when asked about PlayStation type games (for example), Harry could have replied - "Yes we play them to fill time between missions. We do enjoy them." END OF STORY. Instead, Harry made a rookie mistake with the press and volunteered additional information implying the line was blurred between killing in games and killing in real life. And of course the press blew that bit up in their coverage.
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  #770  
Old 01-27-2013, 11:26 AM
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I feel sorry for the serviceman/women and their families, who may feel slighted by Henry's comments. I hope they know we support and appreciate them.

Thank you MichelleQ2 for the link.
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  #771  
Old 01-27-2013, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by AdmirerUS View Post
I'd really like to find out how many hours of interviews he did, with how many interviewers - as well as how long the cameras had access. I originally thought it was a couple of hours of sit down. As more and more reports get filed, and pics come out, it seems there was much more of Harry's time required and any number of interviewers.

The longer he talked, the greater the likelihood that he would say something that made for a ratty soundbite. I also agree with those who have mentioned that the MOD did not seem to have prepped him for the interviews - and should have. Shame on them.

The difference could have been that when asked about PlayStation type games (for example), Harry could have replied - "Yes we play them to fill time between missions. We do enjoy them." END OF STORY. Instead, Harry made a rookie mistake with the press and volunteered additional information implying the line was blurred between killing in games and killing in real life. And of course the press blew that bit up in their coverage.
And they edited the footage after he complained about the media; the press are being selective - this is how they punish.

CH and the MOD were naive as well.
Here is an interesting article from The Sunday Observer. A newspaper saying it like it really is. (although they could have been reading our posts )

Prince Harry got a hero's welcome
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  #772  
Old 01-27-2013, 11:52 AM
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I don't think Harry meant to sound like he was putting down the other men and women serving in the forces. I think the media is making it seem like he didn't appreciate his deployment. I think he's very grateful that he got a chance to do what he was trained for.

I still think Harry and the media tension remains with the Vegas issue. I know he may be also upset about William & Catherine's privacy being violated last year.

To me, I think Harry has a bit of his grandfather in him. They will tell you what they really think and whoever take issue with it, then....oh well.
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  #773  
Old 01-27-2013, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by AfricanAUSSIE View Post
I feel sorry for the serviceman/women and their families, who may feel slighted by Henry's comments. I hope they know we support and appreciate them.

Thank you MichelleQ2 for the link.
*eyeroll*

I have no doubt that other service members are the least offended. They know the realities he's talking about and many of them probably find the criticism of a fellow service member returning from deployment incredibly distasteful.
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  #774  
Old 01-27-2013, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
*eyeroll*

I have no doubt that other service members are the least offended. They know the realities he's talking about and many of them probably find the criticism of a fellow service member returning from deployment incredibly distasteful.
Why are differing opinions on Harry met with such disrespect here? Why not just counter the point without a veiled put-down.

Did you read the article?
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  #775  
Old 01-27-2013, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by MichelleQ2 View Post
The Telegraph weighs in on Harry's remarks. the uk press will all show their displeasure with Harry's comments regarding them one way or another

Show some gratitude, Army chiefs tell Prince Harry - Telegraph
This is not official - this is about a few senior officers not being happy with what has happened. And I suspect (no more than that) this isn't what those that really matter think otherwise there wouldn't have been a need to emphasise the "anonymous" tag.

Re the MOD approval - this does not necessarily mean military personnel approving the interviews etc, it's more likely to be civil servants. That would make sense considering they seemed to have no idea about the pressures Harry is under.

I'm pushing the speculation but I can easily picture the scene where civil servants and military personnel are using this to fight their own corners at the MOD.
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  #776  
Old 01-27-2013, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
Why are differing opinions on Harry met with such disrespect here? Why not just counter the point without a veiled put-down.

Did you read the article?
I've read several of the articles on this particular subject. As has been noted in this thread by several people, the criticism of Harry on this particular issue has gotten out of control, and it's been particularly vicious and nasty. He's a returning service member who just spent four months serving his country, and in my opinion, that deserves a bit of respect.

That particular Telegraph article- the one that quotes a "senior officer" totally anonymously sounds highly embellished and is a particularly nasty piece. It also lacks context. When Harry said he would have preferred to be on the ground, he wasn't whining about having to fly- what he was referring to is the fact that he wasn't able to originally serve on the ground with his unit because of security concerns and that he wished that were not the case. The quoted source also does not appear to be anyone who has any first hand knowledge of working with Harry. All those who have had that experience have praised his commitment.

I have no patience for those who engage in hagiography and portray the various Royal Family members as saints who lead lives beyond reproach, but I have an even stronger distaste for those who engage in character assassination with equal fervor.
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  #777  
Old 01-27-2013, 12:52 PM
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thanks for the article in the daily telegraph,

like this part:
The senior officer, said: “No one in the Army, especially an officer, should be so dismissive about taking life. I saw the interviews and thought 'why did you say that?’. He clearly has not learnt to engage brain before mouth.”

end quote article.


Perhaps Harry can not help it, he is not spoiled nor not "not an officer and a gentleman" as amanda plattel writes.

Perhas he is not bright as a button, after going to Sandhurst and as someone who probably has had/really needed a lot of media training, he can not do better.
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  #778  
Old 01-27-2013, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
I've read several of the articles on this particular subject. As has been noted in this thread by several people, the criticism of Harry on this particular issue has gotten out of control, and it's been particularly vicious and nasty. He's a returning service member who just spent four months serving his country, and in my opinion, that deserves a bit of respect.

That particular Telegraph article- the one that quotes a "senior officer" totally anonymously sounds highly embellished and is a particularly nasty piece. It also lacks context. When Harry said he would have preferred to be on the ground, he wasn't whining about having to fly- what he was referring to is the fact that he wasn't able to originally serve on the ground with his unit because of security concerns and that he wished that were not the case. The quoted source also does not appear to be anyone who has any first hand knowledge of working with Harry. All those who have had that experience have praised his commitment.

I have no patience for those who engage in hagiography and portray the various Royal Family members as saints who lead lives beyond reproach, but I have an even stronger distaste for those who engage in character assassination with equal fervor.
Thanks for your thoughts. That is a viewpoint I appreciate, respect and share. I too tend to agree that we as civilians don't understand the psychological makeup of those who have to go to war and pull triggers, and I'd like to give Harry the benefit of the doubt.

It is a shame that we have reached the stage where we cannot trust even such purportedly venerable media outlets such as the Telegraph for journalistic integrity - or can we? Hard to say. Part of the cons of the internet, I'm afraid.

I myself see Harry as a very human figure, who much like his mother, is blown out of all proportion by those who both loved and hated her/him. Same with Kate, but not so much William. I don't know why some people invite that and some don't. I think he's had to play out too many adversities on the public stage.

But look, people are going to come here and offer differing points of view. It's better that we start out with such reasonable explanations rather than what seems like a put down (although I am guilty of the same in many posts). I'd like to see a discussion here rather than, as you say, idol worship or mob mentality demonizing him.

The problem is, Harry sells papers. So does Kate. Some of the other members of the BRF could cure cancer and we wouldn't know about it, or care. And hey, look at where most of us have been posting in the last few days.
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  #779  
Old 01-27-2013, 01:35 PM
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I'm pretty disgusted by some of the posts in this thread in recent days. It truly beggars belief that a soldier who has just returned from active duty in the most dangerous country on earth should be raked over hot coals for saying something completely normal, but apparently not politically correct enough for them!

People seem to have issues with Harry telling the truth about his service and what it entailed. They apparently would prefer that soldiers spare them their delicate sensibilities and pretend that it's all a bed of roses out there. It's exactly such PC codswallop that has led to Western governments' starting wars willy-nilly, knowing the real truth of it will be kept from the public.

I'll leave it to Colonel Tim Collins, who gave a very famous eve-of-war speech to his men before the invasion of Iraq, to explain this non-controversy. His speech was so good that George Bush framed it and hung it in the Oval Office. Prince Charles also sent him a long handwritten letter to him to tell him how inspirational it was. He knows more about this topic than all of us on this board combined:

Quote:
All trades have their lingo, and the Army is no different. It just happens that one of the consequences of the military trade is death.
In my service in the SAS, we would talk about a terrorist ‘getting the good news’ or ‘rolling a seven’. In the Royal Irish, the slang tended to be more direct: a dead enemy had been ‘slotted’ or ‘dropped’.
When it comes to death and destruction, all soldiers need a way to talk about it without talking about it. Fighters need to cast a glance at death, often on a daily basis, yet never look him in the eye. All armies do it.It is no surprise that the terrible reality and absolute finality is cloaked in euphemisms. It is a psychological necessity. It protects the soldiers — allows them to get on with the job.

Nor is it a new phenomenon. The language changes, but the meaning is the same. In World War I, dead soldiers were said to have ‘bought the farm’, or simply ‘bought it’. A serious life-changing wound was a ‘Blighty one’, meaning a trip home to the UK.

In World War II, meanwhile, Russian soldiers would warn sentries heading out into No-man’s Land to be particularly careful where Nazi snipers were known to lurk with a cautionary: ‘Stick your head up there and no more dinners.’

I recall enquiring about one of my sergeants who had sustained terrible leg wounds from an improvised explosive device (IED). I was told that it was likely that he would be ‘excused boots’. ‘Excused saluting’ with a left or right arm — or both — speaks for itself.

Even as I gave my eve-of-battle speech in Kuwait, I did so in a manner meant for the men. I did not refer to killing or being killed; I talked of ‘taking lives’, or ‘not seeing the end of the campaign’. The boys knew well enough what I meant.

It is the same when Prince Harry talks about taking Taliban ‘out of the game’ — and let us not forget that this is exactly how all his comrades-in-arms talk. He knows too well what it means.

He may joke that his PlayStation has honed his reflexes, but once again that is a soldier’s flippancy disguising the deadly seriousness of his mission.

For this is also a man who has looked down from his helicopter cockpit, identified enemy fighters running for their lives and witnessed the result when he has unleashed the awesome power at his fingertips.
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  #780  
Old 01-27-2013, 06:07 PM
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Pictures of Henry at his friends this weekend will be printed in tomorrow's telegraph - http://twitter.com/hendopolis/status...223232/photo/1
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