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  #761  
Old 01-27-2013, 11:26 AM
AfricanAUSSIE's Avatar
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I feel sorry for the serviceman/women and their families, who may feel slighted by Henry's comments. I hope they know we support and appreciate them.

Thank you MichelleQ2 for the link.
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  #762  
Old 01-27-2013, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by AdmirerUS View Post
I'd really like to find out how many hours of interviews he did, with how many interviewers - as well as how long the cameras had access. I originally thought it was a couple of hours of sit down. As more and more reports get filed, and pics come out, it seems there was much more of Harry's time required and any number of interviewers.

The longer he talked, the greater the likelihood that he would say something that made for a ratty soundbite. I also agree with those who have mentioned that the MOD did not seem to have prepped him for the interviews - and should have. Shame on them.

The difference could have been that when asked about PlayStation type games (for example), Harry could have replied - "Yes we play them to fill time between missions. We do enjoy them." END OF STORY. Instead, Harry made a rookie mistake with the press and volunteered additional information implying the line was blurred between killing in games and killing in real life. And of course the press blew that bit up in their coverage.
And they edited the footage after he complained about the media; the press are being selective - this is how they punish.

CH and the MOD were naive as well.
Here is an interesting article from The Sunday Observer. A newspaper saying it like it really is. (although they could have been reading our posts )

Prince Harry got a hero's welcome
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  #763  
Old 01-27-2013, 11:52 AM
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I don't think Harry meant to sound like he was putting down the other men and women serving in the forces. I think the media is making it seem like he didn't appreciate his deployment. I think he's very grateful that he got a chance to do what he was trained for.

I still think Harry and the media tension remains with the Vegas issue. I know he may be also upset about William & Catherine's privacy being violated last year.

To me, I think Harry has a bit of his grandfather in him. They will tell you what they really think and whoever take issue with it, then....oh well.
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  #764  
Old 01-27-2013, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by AfricanAUSSIE View Post
I feel sorry for the serviceman/women and their families, who may feel slighted by Henry's comments. I hope they know we support and appreciate them.

Thank you MichelleQ2 for the link.
*eyeroll*

I have no doubt that other service members are the least offended. They know the realities he's talking about and many of them probably find the criticism of a fellow service member returning from deployment incredibly distasteful.
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  #765  
Old 01-27-2013, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
*eyeroll*

I have no doubt that other service members are the least offended. They know the realities he's talking about and many of them probably find the criticism of a fellow service member returning from deployment incredibly distasteful.
Why are differing opinions on Harry met with such disrespect here? Why not just counter the point without a veiled put-down.

Did you read the article?
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  #766  
Old 01-27-2013, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by MichelleQ2 View Post
The Telegraph weighs in on Harry's remarks. the uk press will all show their displeasure with Harry's comments regarding them one way or another

Show some gratitude, Army chiefs tell Prince Harry - Telegraph
This is not official - this is about a few senior officers not being happy with what has happened. And I suspect (no more than that) this isn't what those that really matter think otherwise there wouldn't have been a need to emphasise the "anonymous" tag.

Re the MOD approval - this does not necessarily mean military personnel approving the interviews etc, it's more likely to be civil servants. That would make sense considering they seemed to have no idea about the pressures Harry is under.

I'm pushing the speculation but I can easily picture the scene where civil servants and military personnel are using this to fight their own corners at the MOD.
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  #767  
Old 01-27-2013, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
Why are differing opinions on Harry met with such disrespect here? Why not just counter the point without a veiled put-down.

Did you read the article?
I've read several of the articles on this particular subject. As has been noted in this thread by several people, the criticism of Harry on this particular issue has gotten out of control, and it's been particularly vicious and nasty. He's a returning service member who just spent four months serving his country, and in my opinion, that deserves a bit of respect.

That particular Telegraph article- the one that quotes a "senior officer" totally anonymously sounds highly embellished and is a particularly nasty piece. It also lacks context. When Harry said he would have preferred to be on the ground, he wasn't whining about having to fly- what he was referring to is the fact that he wasn't able to originally serve on the ground with his unit because of security concerns and that he wished that were not the case. The quoted source also does not appear to be anyone who has any first hand knowledge of working with Harry. All those who have had that experience have praised his commitment.

I have no patience for those who engage in hagiography and portray the various Royal Family members as saints who lead lives beyond reproach, but I have an even stronger distaste for those who engage in character assassination with equal fervor.
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  #768  
Old 01-27-2013, 12:52 PM
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thanks for the article in the daily telegraph,

like this part:
The senior officer, said: “No one in the Army, especially an officer, should be so dismissive about taking life. I saw the interviews and thought 'why did you say that?’. He clearly has not learnt to engage brain before mouth.”

end quote article.


Perhaps Harry can not help it, he is not spoiled nor not "not an officer and a gentleman" as amanda plattel writes.

Perhas he is not bright as a button, after going to Sandhurst and as someone who probably has had/really needed a lot of media training, he can not do better.
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  #769  
Old 01-27-2013, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
I've read several of the articles on this particular subject. As has been noted in this thread by several people, the criticism of Harry on this particular issue has gotten out of control, and it's been particularly vicious and nasty. He's a returning service member who just spent four months serving his country, and in my opinion, that deserves a bit of respect.

That particular Telegraph article- the one that quotes a "senior officer" totally anonymously sounds highly embellished and is a particularly nasty piece. It also lacks context. When Harry said he would have preferred to be on the ground, he wasn't whining about having to fly- what he was referring to is the fact that he wasn't able to originally serve on the ground with his unit because of security concerns and that he wished that were not the case. The quoted source also does not appear to be anyone who has any first hand knowledge of working with Harry. All those who have had that experience have praised his commitment.

I have no patience for those who engage in hagiography and portray the various Royal Family members as saints who lead lives beyond reproach, but I have an even stronger distaste for those who engage in character assassination with equal fervor.
Thanks for your thoughts. That is a viewpoint I appreciate, respect and share. I too tend to agree that we as civilians don't understand the psychological makeup of those who have to go to war and pull triggers, and I'd like to give Harry the benefit of the doubt.

It is a shame that we have reached the stage where we cannot trust even such purportedly venerable media outlets such as the Telegraph for journalistic integrity - or can we? Hard to say. Part of the cons of the internet, I'm afraid.

I myself see Harry as a very human figure, who much like his mother, is blown out of all proportion by those who both loved and hated her/him. Same with Kate, but not so much William. I don't know why some people invite that and some don't. I think he's had to play out too many adversities on the public stage.

But look, people are going to come here and offer differing points of view. It's better that we start out with such reasonable explanations rather than what seems like a put down (although I am guilty of the same in many posts). I'd like to see a discussion here rather than, as you say, idol worship or mob mentality demonizing him.

The problem is, Harry sells papers. So does Kate. Some of the other members of the BRF could cure cancer and we wouldn't know about it, or care. And hey, look at where most of us have been posting in the last few days.
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  #770  
Old 01-27-2013, 01:35 PM
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I'm pretty disgusted by some of the posts in this thread in recent days. It truly beggars belief that a soldier who has just returned from active duty in the most dangerous country on earth should be raked over hot coals for saying something completely normal, but apparently not politically correct enough for them!

People seem to have issues with Harry telling the truth about his service and what it entailed. They apparently would prefer that soldiers spare them their delicate sensibilities and pretend that it's all a bed of roses out there. It's exactly such PC codswallop that has led to Western governments' starting wars willy-nilly, knowing the real truth of it will be kept from the public.

I'll leave it to Colonel Tim Collins, who gave a very famous eve-of-war speech to his men before the invasion of Iraq, to explain this non-controversy. His speech was so good that George Bush framed it and hung it in the Oval Office. Prince Charles also sent him a long handwritten letter to him to tell him how inspirational it was. He knows more about this topic than all of us on this board combined:

Quote:
All trades have their lingo, and the Army is no different. It just happens that one of the consequences of the military trade is death.
In my service in the SAS, we would talk about a terrorist ‘getting the good news’ or ‘rolling a seven’. In the Royal Irish, the slang tended to be more direct: a dead enemy had been ‘slotted’ or ‘dropped’.
When it comes to death and destruction, all soldiers need a way to talk about it without talking about it. Fighters need to cast a glance at death, often on a daily basis, yet never look him in the eye. All armies do it.It is no surprise that the terrible reality and absolute finality is cloaked in euphemisms. It is a psychological necessity. It protects the soldiers — allows them to get on with the job.

Nor is it a new phenomenon. The language changes, but the meaning is the same. In World War I, dead soldiers were said to have ‘bought the farm’, or simply ‘bought it’. A serious life-changing wound was a ‘Blighty one’, meaning a trip home to the UK.

In World War II, meanwhile, Russian soldiers would warn sentries heading out into No-man’s Land to be particularly careful where Nazi snipers were known to lurk with a cautionary: ‘Stick your head up there and no more dinners.’

I recall enquiring about one of my sergeants who had sustained terrible leg wounds from an improvised explosive device (IED). I was told that it was likely that he would be ‘excused boots’. ‘Excused saluting’ with a left or right arm — or both — speaks for itself.

Even as I gave my eve-of-battle speech in Kuwait, I did so in a manner meant for the men. I did not refer to killing or being killed; I talked of ‘taking lives’, or ‘not seeing the end of the campaign’. The boys knew well enough what I meant.

It is the same when Prince Harry talks about taking Taliban ‘out of the game’ — and let us not forget that this is exactly how all his comrades-in-arms talk. He knows too well what it means.

He may joke that his PlayStation has honed his reflexes, but once again that is a soldier’s flippancy disguising the deadly seriousness of his mission.

For this is also a man who has looked down from his helicopter cockpit, identified enemy fighters running for their lives and witnessed the result when he has unleashed the awesome power at his fingertips.
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  #771  
Old 01-27-2013, 06:07 PM
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Pictures of Henry at his friends this weekend will be printed in tomorrow's telegraph - http://twitter.com/hendopolis/status...223232/photo/1
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  #772  
Old 01-27-2013, 06:33 PM
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Daily mail too

Rebecca English (@RE_DailyMail)
1/27/13 2:14 PM
Details and pictures of Prince Harry's all night welcome home party in the Daily Mail tomorrow....


Rebecca English (@RE_DailyMail)
1/27/13 2:26 PM
I would hasten to add there were no Vegas-style antics - and Prince Harry made it home alone......by 10.30am!
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  #773  
Old 01-27-2013, 06:35 PM
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There is always a "tipping point" in public opinion (as opposed to what the papers say).

Harry is popular with the general public; the public have come to realise how the press manipulate information. "Harry-bashing" will end up counter-productive.

An earlier post covered the fact that the media discovered they were powerful and could "control" the BRF. Well the public discovered they had power and closed down the NoW paper.
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  #774  
Old 01-27-2013, 07:23 PM
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To be fair, the News of the World was shut down because it was discovered they were tapping into the private voice messages and emails of well-known people. I believe Prince William was the first to realize something was amiss.
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  #775  
Old 01-27-2013, 07:31 PM
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To be fair, the News of the World was shut down because it was discovered they were tapping into the private voice messages and emails of well-known people. I believe Prince William was the first to realize something was amiss.
the tipping point was the public backlash against the hacking of milly dowler's phone (young schoolgirl who was murdered and they hacked her phone, making her parents think she was still alive). They stopped buying. Social networks went into negative overdrive. The public weren't that bothered about the hacking of celebrities

The Sun newspaper had to take action when they insulted Liverpool and the entire city stopped buying the paper. I think it was the Sun - apologies if I've mis-remembered

Harry is currently representing the army/military to many people. I am putting forward the argument that although the papers believe they are all powerful, they could have misread this. Just an alternative viewpoint to previous threads. I could be wrong.
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  #776  
Old 01-27-2013, 07:37 PM
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To those who are critical of Prince Harry's interview: It's easy to criticize him because we are not in his situation. We are sitting from the comfort of our homes watching or reading his interview.

I would like to know for those who criticized him, what should he have said then instead of what he did say. No one seems to have an answer to this question. I guess next time he should come with a printed script, read it off and then end the interview or give the interviewer a written script of what could be asked of him. Then he would criticized for having others put words into his mouth instead of him speaking.
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  #777  
Old 01-27-2013, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by nascarlucy View Post
I would like to know for those who criticized him, what should he have said then instead of what he did say.
Fair question. I'll set about doing just that. It may take a little time to find and transcribe the video and questions, and I do have other things I need to do today, but I'll be back.
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  #778  
Old 01-27-2013, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by nascarlucy View Post
To those who are critical of Prince Harry's interview: It's easy to criticize him because we are not in his situation. We are sitting from the comfort of our homes watching or reading his interview.

I would like to know for those who criticized him, what should he have said then instead of what he did say. No one seems to have an answer to this question. I guess next time he should come with a printed script, read it off and then end the interview or give the interviewer a written script of what could be asked of him. Then he would criticized for having others put words into his mouth instead of him speaking.
I understand why you are asking this, because I dont understand the criticism either. But is it practical? Someone may come back but its just their thoughts, they probably wont be a 28 year old male, serving in the army; they will be someone who has the advantage of 20:20 vision on hidesight; they probably wont have seen active service - or even be in the middle of active service and (if that last interview is anything to go by,) Harry didn't know what the questions were going to be - now we do.

So those that could answer this question will have lots of advantages over Harry. But I really do see your point.
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  #779  
Old 01-27-2013, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Indeed it is a perfect world and they wish to inhabit it with perfect wind-up princes. Unfortunately Harry is a real live human being with perfectly normal responses.

It has been my personal experience that those involved "at the sharp end" tend to shrug it off and dislike being questioned about the "hard bits". Many only ever talk about the silly things, the jokes, the light-hearted incidents and their reality is their own. Sharing that reality is intensely personal.

Name me one single occasion when a soldier of Harry's age and experience was thrown to the media dogs and acquitted themselves with the wit, charm and charisma of a seasoned General?

Harry's seemingly off hand response to what amounted to a series of in-depth questions more fitted to a court-room cross examination than an interview hardly deserves the vicious character assassination he is getting on this thread and many more like it.

Every single word he said, the way he stood, the way he looked, the way he spoke has been dissected to the nth degree. Every moment examined in itself and not in context. Harry interviewed as a "soldier" and found wanting as a "prince'"!

Where was Harry's opportunity to "decompress"? And how much use are lesson in politically correct interview techniques within the theatre of war?

I don't know about many of you but I find some of the observations on this thread strangely vindictive, and the glee exhibited by some of those performing hatchet jobs, incredibly ugly.
Perfectly said Marg and Thank You!!
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  #780  
Old 01-27-2013, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
*eyeroll*

I have no doubt that other service members are the least offended. They know the realities he's talking about and many of them probably find the criticism of a fellow service member returning from deployment incredibly distasteful.
Eyeroll necessary? Not able to participate in polite discussion? Ever heard of freedom of speech? Perhaps Forums are not for you, you are acting like those with the mob mentality you claim to detest.

Harry is my favorite royal but like Giraffe says: He is very human and has faults, period. If you don't have the same view of his faults as I do. Fine, no need to spit your dummy and have a tantrum. RESPECT is the key.
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