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  #41  
Old 09-05-2010, 08:47 PM
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Perhaps then it is a difference of point of view in the world "cruel." Eating a chicken (and the death of the chicken) for me is more impartial- while I feel bad for the death of the chicken it isn't because I want to cause the chicken pain- I'm not going to kill the chicken if I'm not going to eat it and use all its parts. The intent is to feed myself and my family- not cause pain. To me- that's not cruelty. Cruelty in my mind would be causing the chicken needless pain WHILE I was killing it when there was a quicker, more humane death available that would work as well or better for the purpose at hand.

The soldiers, cops, etc in our society that protect us generally don't have anything against the people they are killing SPECIFICALLY- they are doing their job (to protect their country and its people.) It isn't because they are out to inflict pain specifically. For my part I think the government (at least the police in the U.S.) does a good job at weeding out those who are out to deliberately inflict pain just to cause pain.

To me- cruel is the deliberate infliction of pain for the sake of causing pain. That's why a lot of synonyms for cruel are "heartless, inhumane, vicious."
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  #42  
Old 09-05-2010, 09:11 PM
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I agree to an extent but would but argue that cruel is just the deliberate infliction of pain without the added aspect of 'causing pain'. I think anyone who causes pain delibrately for any reason is cruel but sometimes other considerations overirde that cruelty.

However my point is that saying someone doesn't have a cruel bone in their body because of the way they hold babies and puppies isn't right (even Hitler and Himmler showed they cared about babies and dogs - there are some great pictures of Hitler playing with his dog).

In addition to join the army and want to serve your country does necessitate a cruel streak in order to actually pull the trigger on an innocent person (and flying an Apache means flying one of the most lethal weapons on the planet - one that can result in the death of 100s if not 1000s).

There is a great episode of MASH which reflects this point - the pilot talks about it being a great war as he sees it from 20,000 ft and drops his bombs and joins his wife for dinner at night but then Hawkeye shows him a young child that has been bombed and the pilot's perspective changes and he realises that he is a killer of innocents. Harry is training to do exactly that - as do all soldiers and that takes a cruel streak.

To shoot innocent birds for sport is cruel and the entire royal family do that. To hunt animals with dogs is cruel, and until it was outlawed the royals, including Harry did that.

He isn't 100% cruel but he does have cruelty in him (by the way I believe we all do to a greater or lesser extent).
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  #43  
Old 09-05-2010, 11:24 PM
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One question I have, wouldn't you think the horse would have screamed out in pain after being cut by the spurs? Or reacted strongly to this injury?
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  #44  
Old 09-06-2010, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by nascarlucy View Post
One question I have, wouldn't you think the horse would have screamed out in pain after being cut by the spurs? Or reacted strongly to this injury?

I think that it would have made some noise but whether or not it was heard by Harry is another matter due to the noise of the hooves etc of the game.

Having watched a game from some distance the noise was rather loud so I would imagine that it would have been possible that Harry didn't hear the horse get injured.
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  #45  
Old 09-06-2010, 03:53 PM
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Do you think that person who cried over his horse's death would like to make the other animal suffer ?! From a lot of years Harry is a ,,bad prince'',but how we all see he is more compare to his mother than his brother nowadays !
More and more people prefer him,so I think it's just an accident ...or rumour by the press.I don't think Harry is guilty,he is innocent ! I'm so sorry for the horse and for Harry too,because he is good person and maybe he is hurted of all the lies and things that people say about him !!!
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  #46  
Old 09-06-2010, 07:36 PM
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I think people are overusing the word "cruel" here. Just because he's in the military and has gone hunting in the past doesn't mean he would intentionally hurt his horse.

If this incident happened a couple months ago I'm sure they already investigated it and if Harry had been found guilty the press would have reported it right away.
I suspect that it might be people who are against hunting that decided to run this story as they emphasize the hunting part. I wouldn't be surprised if they're using this incident to complain about hunting and make Harry look bad.
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  #47  
Old 09-06-2010, 07:53 PM
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Being in the military or hunting doesn't make a person mean, cruel or vicious. I doubt that Harry deliberatedly hurt his horse. What would anyone hope to gain by harming their horse at a polo match.
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  #48  
Old 09-06-2010, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nascarlucy View Post
One question I have, wouldn't you think the horse would have screamed out in pain after being cut by the spurs? Or reacted strongly to this injury?
I've dealt with performance animals quite a bit- my dogs are agility dogs and I have dealt with polo horses in the past- sometimes excitement and the adrenaline rush blocks the pain initially and the animal doesn't realize it has been injured right away.

Sometimes the animal will only feel the injury (or at least- pain from the injury- afterwards when it has had a chance to calm down from the rush of the match/game/run etc.

Used to be a big problem with my ex-racing greyhounds that were adopted off the racetracks- they loved running flat out so much that when they were injured running they would KEEP running just to win, or for the thrill of the chase, or whatever and hurt themselves worse.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Opal View Post
I think people are overusing the word "cruel" here. Just because he's in the military and has gone hunting in the past doesn't mean he would intentionally hurt his horse.

If this incident happened a couple months ago I'm sure they already investigated it and if Harry had been found guilty the press would have reported it right away.
I suspect that it might be people who are against hunting that decided to run this story as they emphasize the hunting part. I wouldn't be surprised if they're using this incident to complain about hunting and make Harry look bad.
I also got the impression that the story was more about politics than anything else. One of the people quoted in the one article was obviously lobbying against the use of spurs in the sport. It was so obviously biased a view- I think this has no credibility whatsoever and they are just trying to stir up trouble to sell papers.
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  #49  
Old 09-07-2010, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
This is the first time I've heard of a polo player drawing blood like that. Does anyone else know of this happening with other players?
Sorry I'm jumping in a bit late, but yes. I've been playing polo for a number of years (see my user name, etc). Horses get injured playing polo. It's a contact sport. People get injured, draw blood, break bones, and badly jam part of their bodies. Injury to horses is dealt with much more quickly than injuries to players. If a player is still capable of continuing to play without risk of further harm to himself or others, play continues. Polo does not have sideline coaches, time-outs, or substitute humans to allow this. If a horse is injured, all bets are off. Play is stopped as soon as a.) it is noticed b.) it is safe to all involved to stop the game.

Understand that anyone- the press or people commenting on the story- who would make a statement about Harry's use of spurs either does not understand polo in particular and competitive horseback riding in general or is in the FAR conservative majority who doesn't believe half the equipment used in polo should be used with horses, anyway. To anyone inside the sport, the notion that someone would comment on whether a particular players should use a particular piece of equipment on a particular pony is laughable. Every pony is an individual, and, like one would with any teammate, the riders who play on these ponies know them inside and out.

It takes a lot to make a horse "squeal" in pain would take one heck of a force, and it would leave a much bigger mark than this. Horses squeal in warning, or surprise, or perhaps when a huge (think broken leg) injury is endured. They are sensitive animals in a lot of ways, but they are also very large and tough. Still, it is much easier than you'd think to draw blood. Most things that nick a horse can draw blood, but it is a shallow wound and the animal usually does not notice it. It is deeper cuts that are a concern. We were on the side of caution when it comes to our ponies, which is why play was stopped for this one.

Harry may be a prince, but in this sport the pony is the king. I guarantee you, Harry did not rise to this level of play without knowing and acting on this concept.
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  #50  
Old 09-07-2010, 01:37 AM
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Talking

Of course being in the military or going hunting doesn't mean that he would intentionally hurt his horse but it does show that he has a cruel streak.
My original comment was related to the comment that he doesn't have a cruel bone in his body because he likes babies and puppies.
That is not the case and that is all that I have been trying to get across.

Is Harry cruel - at times yes - he has to be to kill animals - and any hunter/shooter has to be cruel to deliberately hurt another creature and that is what hunters do. He has to be to knowingly fly a weapon that can kill 1000s of people with one press of a button.
Is Harry cruel 100% of the time - no - he does have some softer feelings and these have been shown when with babies and puppies.
He is cruel when he wants to be or has to be and kind at other times - like most of us really.
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  #51  
Old 09-07-2010, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunshine_93 View Post
Do you think that person who cried over his horse's death would like to make the other animal suffer ?! From a lot of years Harry is a ,,bad prince'',but how we all see he is more compare to his mother than his brother nowadays !
More and more people prefer him,so I think it's just an accident ...or rumour by the press.I don't think Harry is guilty,he is innocent ! I'm so sorry for the horse and for Harry too,because he is good person and maybe he is hurted of all the lies and things that people say about him !!!
This sounds like la-la-land to me. Have you been there that you can assure he is innocent? I have nothing against Henry but he seems too ambitious at times.
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  #52  
Old 09-07-2010, 09:07 PM
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Given the history of the press and the length of time that has passed since the incident occurred I would be far more likely to put this down as reporters trying to blow an incident up into a bigger deal than it was. A small puncture on a horse in most places would not be big news. "Prince Harry cruelly injures horse" will sell far more papers on a slow news day.

Does that mean he didn't do it deliberately? No- but I think it is far better to presume innocence when there isn't any evidence to the contrary than to label someone guilty incorrectly. I believe this even more when its someone like Princes William and Harry who will have to hear this for years to come whenever someone feels like dredging it up again.
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  #53  
Old 09-10-2010, 05:40 PM
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Well said Nitefeatherz!
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  #54  
Old 09-12-2010, 03:17 AM
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Prince Harry: Why we love the reformed royal rebel | Mail Online

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In the week that the former rebel prince turns 26, The Mail on Sunday’s royal correspondent Katie Nicholl reveals why we’re wild about Harry
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  #55  
Old 09-12-2010, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackadder View Post
This sounds like la-la-land to me. Have you been there that you can assure he is innocent? I have nothing against Henry but he seems too ambitious at times.

No,but I'm sure he is not guilty ! He loves the animals and the children so much....can't you see it ?! Why everybody say about him so much bad things....
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  #56  
Old 09-12-2010, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by sunshine_93 View Post
No,but I'm sure he is not guilty ! He loves the animals and the children so much....can't you see it ?! Why everybody say about him so much bad things....

The point is that he loves animals so much that he kills them. If he can kill for the pleasure of killing and that is what hunting is then he can do other bad things which is why I will say 'bad things' about him because he is a trained killer of both animals and people (all soldiers are trained killers).

He might like children and animals - so did Hitler. Of course Harry is no Hitler but just because he likes children and animals doesn't mean he can't also have injured an animal - if he can kill them and he does, regularly, then he could injure an animal in the excitement of a game.

Did he injure the animal - we don't know. Could he be guilt - most certainly - could he be innocent - most certainly.

However seeing him with children and animals is no proof that he couldn't harm them as he has been trained to do exactly that - kill them and you can't harm an animal or person much more than that.
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  #57  
Old 09-12-2010, 03:48 PM
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Prince Harry attended the 'Help For Heroes' Concert at Twickenham Stadium,
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** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 ** Pic 3 ** belga gallery **
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  #58  
Old 09-12-2010, 04:07 PM
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^^
He doesn't look too happy in Pic 3. Perhaps he spotted the photographer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitefeatherz View Post
I would be far more likely to put this down as reporters trying to blow an incident up into a bigger deal than it was.
You're probably right, and unfortunately people on this forum are more than happy to contribute to blowing it out of proportion.
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  #59  
Old 09-12-2010, 07:22 PM
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I have to agree...he really doesn't. Looks happy. I have to admit the photographers must get annoying at some point even when they are behaving.
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-Eleanor Roosevelt
  #60  
Old 09-13-2010, 02:58 AM
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Or maybe he was just bored?
I'm surprised William didn't go with his brother.


Help For Heroes: Robbie Williams and Gary Barlow | Mail Online
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