Prince Harry Current Events 23: July 2008-May 2009

[Skydragon]

If the incident had happened last week, I'd understand the kerfuffle, but it happened three years ago - three years ago!!

Harry shouldn't have said those things, but he was three years younger then, and handn't been to war. I think he's grown up a lot, and shouldn't be tarred and feathered because of something foolish he did three years ago. He's apologised and the hounds should be called off.

Fully agree but they are sensing blood!

 

[ghost_night554]

If the incident had happened last week, I'd understand the kerfuffle, but it happened three years ago - three years ago!!

Harry shouldn't have said those things, but he was three years younger then, and handn't been to war. I think he's grown up a lot, and shouldn't be tarred and feathered because of something foolish he did three years ago. He's apologised and the hounds should be called off.

I totally agree this is getting ridiculous, seriously how can people tell if he's racist from 30 seconds worth of footage, suppose the same thing could be said how can we say he isn't but either way this is getting out of hand he's apologized and like you said it was 3 bloody years ago people let it go.

 

[iowabelle]

I don't really think that Harry's a racist, otherwise he wouldn't be so interested in the welfare of African people.

But he is, and has been, a little impulsive -- and should stop giving the tabloids ammunition. They're going to make him out to be the royal bad boy, anyway, so he needs to be more careful with his image.

I was thinking about this... when I was younger, I'm sure I said insensitive things... but I have the blessing of relatively few people being interested in my actions.

 

[Naggi]

A racist comment is a comment meant to demean, insult and trash someones ethnic or racial background.
His comment wasn't racist because his intend wasn't. I wish people would stop acting like it was.

Like the article posted by Little Star rightfully says, racism is an experience, not a word.
It's about being discriminated at work, in a restaurant, about being expelled from your country because you belong the the White minority, about people looking at you queer in airplanes, about being singled out for security searches at airports because you're the only non-Caucasian there, about being bullied at school, about being confronted by perfect strangers in the street, about your boyfriend dumping you because his family won't let him marry a White girl, etc.
Racism is never humorous. Some jokes are about races. People who tell them may or may not be racist.
Just like some jokes are about sexual orientation/hair colour/ gender.
You may find such jokes distasteful (many people do) but if we start calling anyone who makes a gay joke an homophobe, a Blond joke a sexist or a Jewish joke a antisemite, we won't see the end of it.Everybody has been on the other side. As if racism is the monopole of one ethnicity.
Anyone who lives in a multicultural city has experienced racism. And even if you live in a little town with only 30 people of the same race you have heard it through the media. Have you ever heard an Al-Qaeda broadcast? Nobody needs to be explained what racism and hatred feels like, please stop that patronising.
And do not think for a minute that the British public is nonchalant when it comes to racism. Google Jade Goody to see how real displays of racism is received by the British public.I agree with the first part, but not with the second. If you make racist comments, you are racist. Of course racism is in the intend.Ah, the bliss of anonymity, where you have the privilege to make your mistakes and amend in private, without the whole word pouring slime upon you and making assumptions about your IQ.
All of those who are calling him an idiot and generally trashing him silly have I am sure never ever said anything that would sound deeply offensive to anyone.
I am glad such persons exist because it liberates the rest of us flawed mortals from the burden of perfection.

Army launches inquiry into who leaked Prince Harry's Paki Video

It is very sad that Harry cannot trust anyone.
I always gives William a hard time for what I percieved to be his paranoia, but I have to admit he probably has the right attitude.

Does this mean, when I can call a German as a Nazi and when my intention is to make a fun and not really to insult or demean him, it is acceptable??? Sorry, but I believe I have not understood what you mean here. I agree that his intention may not be offensive, but he was a grown up young man, and he must know that every action has its consequences.

I partly agree, but of course not only experience but also words can refer to racism. When someone calls me with a word, that is connected to humiliation of a special ethnical group of people, I experience racism, when my ethnical background is the same.


Yes, I completely agree, racism is never humorous and therefore racist humor is not acceptable. Of course you can’t call someone homophobe only because he is making a gay joke or sexist because of a joke on blondes. And of course you can’t call Harry racist because he made a racist comment (as I have said before), but there is no reason to underestimate such behaviour. Maybe this article can express much better what I am trying to say:

http://www.politics.co.uk/analysis/legal-and-constitutional/equality/analysis-do-prince-harry-s-comments-really-make-him-racist--$1260197.htm

It is correct that everybody has been on the other side – some are on the side where they say “Nazi, dirty Muslim or dirty Jude, Paki, Gypsy, ******…..” to others (If you have noticed I do not monopole at all an ethnicity.) We are all expressing our diverse views here. If you think that I am patronising with my views, please accept my apology - it was not my intention to do so

Yes, I can and will doubt the IQ of someone who has now been caught repeatedly in such a situation. Everyone has the privilege to make mistakes. In German we have a saying “Blödheit schütz vor Strafe nicht” (broadly translated: silliness will not protect you from punishment). If anyone wants to omit such discussions, he should just learn from his mistakes. Obviously Harry hasn’t learnt a bit from the Nazi dress story. The fact that he had to apologise for this behaviour and was interviewed by the army, that the prime minister had to back him and that the Royal House had to release a statement are proof enough for me that he acted silly. You may see this differently

Yes, it is indeed very sad, that he can’t trust anyone, but obviously he trusts the video camera

I absolutly agree MARG. Nomatter what Harry have said on the video and nomater which motives people prefere to impute to him - the rotten egg(s) in the Armys nest is the one (those) who leaked the video - not Harry, IMO.

I do not want to think of a Gentleman and an Army Officer of tolerating racist remarks. This is much more worse than a video published that shows the immense immatureness of a royal member.

 

[Little_star]

I may be way off the mark here, but it seems to me that most of those condoning Harry are those from outside the UK.

In this country, P*ki has always been used as a racist term and is not simply an abbreviation, like Brit or Aussie.

 

[BeatrixFan]

The problem is that Harry's track record isn't squeaky clean. Nazi uniform anybody?

 

[ghost_night554]

Oh yes I remember that, I mean fine he said something bad ok I understand I'm not trying to say what he said wasn't bad but he's apologized, I don't understand what more people want from him especially since the video is 3 years old. Yes he should have been careful but what's done is done. A lot of people may think I'm nuts cause I'm defending him but I'm a true believer in people make mistakes say the wrong things do wrong things it's all part of growing up and learning, trust me I've made alot of mistakes stupid mistakes in my life but I'm lucky enough not to have the media following me 24/7 tracking every little detail of my life, yes I guess that's even more of a reason for Harry to have been more careful in what he was recording, I'm not denying that but come on enough, what is it a slow news day.

 

[crisscross1]

I may be way off the mark here, but it seems to me that most of those condoning Harry are those from outside the UK.

In this country, P*ki has always been used as a racist term and is not simply an abbreviation, like Brit or Aussie.

I actually beg to differ on that. The word P*ki wasn't used as a racist term when I lived in the UK, the same as many other nicknames taken from a country of origin... It seems that people are way too soft these days.
Using a word such as Aussie or Pom (Brit) can also depend on the way in which the word is used. In Australia if you call someone an Aussie b*%@*#d then it would be offensive, (I think the terms racist, racism are used far too liberally) The same going for the word Pom. People at work call me pom and I don't care because they are using it friend to friend, as Harry was.
It has just come to light that Prince Charles calls one of his friends 'Sooty' because of his country of origin and skin colour. The person in question had no problem with this because it was used in a friendly manner.
People need to stop taking life so seriously. JMO

 

[Idriel]

I am sorry if you saw it as such.....

OK, my bad. Thank you for the courteous clarification.

I may be way off the mark here, but it seems to me that most of those condoning Harry are those from outside the UK.

In this country, P*ki has always been used as a racist term and is not simply an abbreviation, like Brit or Aussie.

It is not correct.
Paki is a short for Pakistanis and was first used as such.
Then at some point it started to be used by racists as a slur.
These people are the one who tainted the word.

You can actually take any word, any symbol, place a disgusting ideology and set of belief behind it and taint it.
Take for example the word Black. At some point it was so tainted that people would tip-toe around it and used 'colored' instead (ironically, the term has now negative connotations too).
Same for the swastika, an old buddhist and native-american symbol with no negative connotation whatsoever that has been tainted by the Nazi.

I can understand fully, why to any Asian the word Paki could trigger a very emotional reaction because in their experience that word as been used by people who were racist. I also understabd why anyone one would use this word would be seen as guilty by association. I don't think your or any Asian person reaction is baseless or mystifying.
But please remember it isn't people like Harry who tainted this word. This is a time waster to go after him. Go after the real racists.

....
Fresh Royal racism row: The Indian polo pal Charles, William and Harry call 'Sooty' | Mail Online

New row over 'Sooty' nickname | The Sun |News|Royals

I can't believe this madness.

And while gallons of ink are wasted on this nonsense, the real racists keep on rampaging

 

[Mermaid1962]

Yes, I agree. After all, the Royal Family are supposed to be the servants of the nation. I think that the Queen has fulfilled that role very well. She seems to be a relatively humble person in spite of her grand title.

it would be a great pity if Harry and his brother don't learn a little humility before they get too much older, it is after all a sign of a good leader!

 

[moby]

The video may be three years old but we don't really know if Harry's learned his lesson in the years since it's happened. I may not have a very high opinion of him in general but I think it's realistic to say that up until this incident blew up, he likely didn't figure that there's something wrong with calling Pakistanis "P-ki".

Like I said, I don't think it was his intention to offend anybody. I'm just really amazed by how a member of the RF could make this kind of mistake. I'm usually very forgiving of royals' mistakes like falling out of nightclubs, adultery, and heck, even drugs because at the end of the day, they're just people who happen to have been born into that life, weren't really given a choice and I can't imagine the kind of pressure they must be living under. But the nature of this faux pas is different because it offends other cultures (and this is the second time he's done so), so yes, this is serious. I remember when I first tried to get into the diplomatic corps and one of the first of many lessons was how NOT to make these kinds of race-related mistakes. I just wonder about the kind of tutoring he's had about these matters.

 

[ghost_night554]

^I understand what you mean, I personally had never heard of that word until this incident but I do understand what you mean since he has had a higher form of education. I just hope he's more careful and thinks in the near future.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

The problem is that Harry's track record isn't squeaky clean. Nazi uniform anybody?

Come on, even here in Germany children often learn not much about the Nazi-regime. Probably it wasn't even a topic for Harry in school...so how should he know?

 

[crisscross1]

I'm usually very forgiving of royals' mistakes like falling out of nightclubs, adultery, and heck, even drugs because at the end of the day, they're just people

That's exactly right, at the end of the day they are just people. I actually consider adultery and drugs to be far worse than calling a platoon mate a name. I believe that the media has a lot to answer for when they release this sort of tribe into the public forum. Being a private recording made on a personal video recorder for personal use? If I were Harry I would be turning the tables.

 

[muriel]

In this country, P*ki has always been used as a racist term and is not simply an abbreviation, like Brit or Aussie.

You are right that in the UK, the term has negative connotations but when used in a racist manner, and often, in a generic manner to cover all South Asians, as it often is.

We have many friends of sub continbental origin, and our Indian friends will jokingly sometimes refer to our Pakistani friends, in front of them, as Paki's, and no offence is either intended or felt. So I think this is down to how the term is used, and how the recipients feel about it.

Banking up a little bit, I do believe that Harry did display a lack of judgement in using the term, knowing fully well that he could be open to criticism if such usage came to public light!

 

[Skydragon]

In this country, P*ki has always been used as a racist term and is not simply an abbreviation, like Brit or Aussie.

I agree, it is very different. Being called a Jock or Paddy is frowned upon now but the P word is so much worse!

they are using it friend to friend, as Harry was.
It has just come to light that Prince Charles calls one of his friends 'Sooty' because of his country of origin and skin colour. The person in question had no problem with this because it was used in a friendly manner.

According to the JO Khan's father, they were not friends, just in the same platoon - there is a difference.
As for Charles calling his friend Sooty, with his consent, that is different, IMO. One of my friends calls me Pale Face (she has Native American Ancestry) and we have an English friend who is called Whitey, these are nicknames as they are normally used between friends.

 

[crisscross1]

According to the JO Khan's father, they were not friends, just in the same platoon - there is a difference.One of my friends calls me Pale Face (she has Native American Ancestry) and we have an English friend who is called Whitey, these are nicknames as they are normally used between friends.

Again I beg to differ.
JO Khan's father wasn't in the same platoon as his son and wouldn't know.
When you are serving in the forces, peace time or otherwise, you learn to accept your fellow serving members and the their special traits.
When push comes to shove, (in a wartime situation or on the way to a wartime situation) they are the one's who will be there for you.
Paleface, Whitey, Pom, Pa*i, Aussie, Yank, Chink, Choge, I think it's hard to differentiate and only those on the receiving end will accept the name or not. It really depends on how much money they think they will make from selling the story to the 'media'

 

[Skydragon]

Again I beg to differ.
JO Khan's father wasn't in the same platoon as his son and wouldn't know.
When you are serving in the forces, peace time or otherwise, you learn to accept your fellow serving members and the their special traits.

I really don't think we will ever agree. I know my childrens' friends names, I also know the names of some of their acquaintances, but I don't know the names of every other Officer they trained with, because they were merely fellow trainee officers. If J.O. Khan and Harry had been 'friends', the chances are his father would have known about it.

I do have some idea of the comradeship that normally exists between Officers and other ranks and sad to say, this was not an acceptance of a 'special trait'. JMO

 

[Mermaid1962]

We learned about the Nazis in school, and about the Holocaust. I can't believe that the subject wasn't covered in British History. But given you're grinning smiley, perhaps you're being sarcastic about "how should he know?", Jo?

Come on, even here in Germany children often learn not much about the Nazi-regime. Probably it wasn't even a topic for Harry in school...so how should he know?

 

[Mermaid1962]

Here's a different spin on the Harry debacle.

Prince Harry has homophobia licked: gay rights campaigner - Yahoo! Canada News

 

[Menarue]

Here's a different spin on the Harry debacle.

Prince Harry has homophobia licked: gay rights campaigner - Yahoo! Canada News

Oh dear is this supposed to make us feel better?

 

[Mermaid1962]

Not necessarily. I thought it was just so different from everything else that's been said that it was worth posting.

Oh dear is this supposed to make us feel better?

 

[Menarue]

I agree it is very different. I think it is nice to be friendly with your fellow soldiers but licking their faces?

 

[Jo of Palatine]

We learned about the Nazis in school, and about the Holocaust. I can't believe that the subject wasn't covered in British History. But given you're grinning smiley, perhaps you're being sarcastic about "how should he know?", Jo?

Yes, I was sarcastic. It is a fact that a lot of schools omit this topic or place it so far at the end of their history-rpogramme that ancient Greece or Rome are far better covered than the question how it was possible that the Nazis were able to obtain control of Germany and did what they did. And it's a fact that "Bomber" Harris and the government who backed him deliberatedly caused unnecessarily the death or mutilation of so many innocent people- people who had no active doings in the war at that stage, refugees and civilians, old people and children on setting fire to the cities. I met survivors and believe me, they told horror stories of the "fire storm"... I say unnecessarily because these people were not able to influence the government at that time and it was known that the couldnt. Okay, enough of that. So I understand it if some school omit this chapter of history but I think a prince of the UK should know anyway.

 

[Mermaid1962]

It seems to be a thing that young people do. There have been pictures of Chelsy doing that as well. Can't imagine doing that to one of my friends, though.

I agree it is very different. I think it is nice to be friendly with your fellow soldiers but licking their faces?

 

[Mermaid1962]

Yes, I know what you mean. We learned more about the events leading up to WWI (armament buildups, the Entente Cordiale, etc.) than about how the Nazis were able to take control in Germany, or even what made Hitler such a charismatic figure--except that the terms of German surrender in WWI totally humiliated the Germans and Hitler appealed to the sense that Germans had of being victimized. That's it: if a person can make other people feel like they've been victimized, there's no limit to what he/she can achieve. Anyway, I can hear Warren approaching.

It is a fact that a lot of schools omit this topic or place it so far at the end of their history-rpogramme that ancient Greece or Rome are far better covered than the question how it was possible that the Nazis were able to obtain control of Germany and did what they did.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Oh dear is this supposed to make us feel better?

So Harry's gay now? Fancy.

 

[Roslyn]

So I understand it if some school omit this chapter of history but I think a prince of the UK should know anyway.

Not being taught it at school is no excuse for anyone, least of all a prince of the UK, not knowing about the rise of the Nazi party and Hitler in Germany, and the persecution of Jews and the extermination camps.

It was such a huge issue in the last century, and there have been numerous movies and TV shows and documentaries about the subject, and I don't see how anyone with any curiosity at all - especially someone with as many German relatives as Harry - could reach their late teens and not know that wearing a swastika armband might upset a lot of people. Harry could have worn the Afrika Korps uniform without the armband, or covered it up. I suppose we should be thankful he didn't choose an SS officer's uniform.

(ETA) Anyway, I'm sure he knows now. And that was a long time ago, like the recently disclosed video tape. He's grown up a lot since those days and I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt and trust he will not do anything so foolish again.

 

[Idriel]

Muslim leader apologises for calling Prince Harry 'a thug'

A leading Muslim in Britain who accused Prince Harry of being “a thug” for calling a Pakistani colleague at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst a “little Paki” made a public apology yesterday for his own choice of language.
Mohammed Shafiq, the chief executive of the Ramadhan Foundation, a Muslim youth organisation, admitted that he had allowed his emotions to get the better of him.
“On reflection, I wish to issue a sincere and unreserved apology to Prince Harry for any offence I have caused him,” he said.

“I am, however, still of the view that the use of the term 'Paki' is unacceptable in the 21st century and I welcome Prince Harry's acceptance that this word is racist and offensive. I know he is a very talented individual and has a bright future ahead of him and hope we all learn lessons from this sorry episode,”

 

[Mermaid1962]

This is good to hear.

Muslim leader apologises for calling Prince Harry 'a thug'