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  #121  
Old 03-26-2007, 09:43 AM
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I'd point out here that we've only seen still pictures; as far as I know we haven't seen video which would show us the sequence of events as they actually happened.
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  #122  
Old 03-26-2007, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
Well, lots of military people drink excessively, as many are alcoholics, at least that's a fact in the US. I understand that attitudes in Europe and laws regarding alcohol are different than in the US, though. So perhaps what is considered "excessive" or what is considered "alcohol abuse" differs too.
I can't quite see a soldier being passed fit for duty if their blood alcohol levels are above the legal limit on any of the random tests our officers have to undergo. Lets be honest here... how many times has it been suggested that Harry has been drunk in, lets say the past year? Every day, every week, every month?
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  #123  
Old 03-26-2007, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale
Oh I'm sure a 'friend' would do that, but a employed protection officer would do the same.

Hmmm...I wasn't aware that stumbling meant grabbing anothers clothing and attempt to pull them to the ground as was clear in the photographs aired on TV
Yes a paid protection officer would do the same, it's part of their remit to try to ensure their 'charge' comes to no harm.
It would be nice to have a link to the photos you have apparently seen, because they seem to differ from the ones that were printed in the red tops here.
  #124  
Old 03-26-2007, 04:10 PM
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Oh dear Harry!

I have no problem with the fact that Harry likes to drink. He's no different than any other person his age, in the military or not. I have tons of guy friends in the military here who get plastered whenever they get the chance, and it doesn't make them a bad soldier.

I can't tell if Harry really went after the photographer or not just from the pictures we have seen, but I really hope not. The first time, a few years ago, was forgivable b/c it was the first time and he was young. But I would hope that he's learned from that and would be able to control himself more. Thats when it gets to the point of questioning whether he drinks too much (if he can't control himself).
  #125  
Old 03-26-2007, 04:51 PM
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I think this is a result of the public wanting the royals to act more human and be more like us. But then the public complains when royals make a very common lack of judgment (just like regular young people would do), and they justify it always that with the position being royal, the young royals should be held to higher standards than the rest of the 20-something crowd.

The problem is you can't have it both ways - you can't have a warm, friendly, approchable, caring, loving prince that acts just like the boy next door unless you're willing to take some of the faults that you'd get with the boy next door which includes a lot of drinking and making a fool of oneself when in one's teens and early twenties (I see a lot of young men do that outside my New York apartment window every Saturday night and I know they have responsible jobs and warm, loving families)

I'm not excusing Harry's actions, his behavior can be quite dangerous, but geez, in his situation, is there any surprise why he drinks then? I'm only surprised that we don't see this type of behavior more often among young royals.

This latest escapade only makes me long for the days when royalty was more aloof and I daresay more respectable acting.
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  #126  
Old 03-26-2007, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christinacg
I have no problem with the fact that Harry likes to drink. He's no different than any other person his age, in the military or not. I have tons of guy friends in the military here who get plastered whenever they get the chance, and it doesn't make them a bad soldier.
I am amazed, our chaps are subject to random drink and drug tests on a regular basis. They can drink in their free time, but they had better be sober when they report for duty.
Poor Harry, if he holds himself aloof, doesn't drink, is not seen out with friends, he will be condemned and called cold and uncaring. If he acts like any ordinary rich kid, he is also condemned, normally without much evidence!
  #127  
Old 03-26-2007, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
This latest escapade only makes me long for the days when royalty was more aloof and I daresay more respectable acting.
And got quietly plastered out of view of the public!
  #128  
Old 03-26-2007, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
And got quietly plastered out of view of the public!
You've got a point, skydragon. I dont' mean to imply that our parents' or grandparents' generation never did stuff like this. But I do think that the trouble they took to hide the most outlandish behavior put a damper on how outlandish that behavior could really be before it was deemed totally impossible to hide.
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  #129  
Old 03-26-2007, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
Poor Harry, if he holds himself aloof, doesn't drink, is not seen out with friends, he will be condemned and called cold and uncaring. If he acts like any ordinary rich kid, he is also condemned, normally without much evidence!
That is precisely my point. William seems to do the responsible thing and dates a sensible girl and he gets blamed for being a boring aristocrat that never shows any caring or charisma.

I think we're in danger of putting royalty up to a standard that they can't live up to. And I don't mean the drinking - I mean the normal dictonomy between wanting royalty that is just like us and at the same time wanting royalty to act better and more responsible than us.

Its a no-win situation.
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  #130  
Old 03-26-2007, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
I can't quite see a soldier being passed fit for duty if their blood alcohol levels are above the legal limit on any of the random tests our officers have to undergo. Lets be honest here... how many times has it been suggested that Harry has been drunk in, lets say the past year? Every day, every week, every month?
Maybe British military are subject to more tests than US military? Yes, in the US it is totally random (i.e. all people whose Social Security Numbers start with 0, all people born on the third day of the month, etc.) but my memory does not recall these tests being anything like frequent. In fact, they were quite few and far between. Several months could lapse without one test. I don't know, though, you must be saying that in Britain, and as such with Prince Harry, there are frequent blood tests. It's interesting.
But regardless of the frequency or infrequency.... you make a good point about his showing up to work sober. If he showed up to work with visibly blood shot eyes, that would be a serious problem; he might written up if his superiors were in a good mood, but if in a bad mood, he might go before his CO for what in the US Navy is called 'Captain's Mast', where you face serious disciplinary action (whatever the CO deems appropriate or feels to be a good punishment in the context); it is not as serious as Court Martial, but still extremely bad. I suppose it can ruin a person's career. I think it's possible, though, in many cases to recover from it. I think it depends on the peculiarities of the situation. Either way, Prince Harry must be sure to be sober and rested when he goes to work, especially because his superiors must be watching him more than anyone else.
  #131  
Old 03-26-2007, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
You've got a point, skydragon. I dont' mean to imply that our parents' or grandparents' generation never did stuff like this. But I do think that the trouble they took to hide the most outlandish behavior put a damper on how outlandish that behavior could really be before it was deemed totally impossible to hide.
They were, for their day, almost as bad. I can still remember being collected from a nightclub, after my parents were contacted. I wasn't reprimanded for being 'tipsy', I was reprimanded for drawing attention to my 'state'. You are right though, it would have been totally unacceptable to be seen staggering, vomiting and rolling about, as we see a great many of the todays youth doing. By comparison to what has become normal behaviour for a lot of young men and women, Harry is a saint.
  #132  
Old 03-26-2007, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
Maybe British military are subject to more tests than US military? Yes, in the US it is totally random (i.e. all people whose Social Security Numbers start with 0, all people born on the third day of the month, etc.) but my memory does not recall these tests being anything like frequent. In fact, they were quite few and far between.
Gosh, try every 26 or so days. They never know when they are going to be tested and the same unit, officers included can be retested the following week. If he did report in an 'unfit state' he could receive a reprimand, be charged with bringing his unit into disrepute, courts martial, dishonorable discharge or as is normally the case for an officer, quietly retired on medical grounds!
Poor Harry, I'm sending him to Colchester and all this with no evidence and an absolute denial from CH, shame on me!!!!
  #133  
Old 03-26-2007, 06:45 PM
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Fortunately, we are all allowed our opinion. The series of pictures from this week (different pics, same club, every couple of weeks) made it look like he was extremely drunk. Of course his father's going to trying to defend him. If he didn't get so drunk so often he wouldn't need anyone to defend him. I don't buy that boys will be boys and they'll grow out of it stuff. It is an optional activity. No one I know or hang around with DOWNS alcohol like that. We have fun while drinking soda. We never slip on the uneven pavement or pull some photographer down or have to be helped to our cars while drinking that soda.
  #134  
Old 03-26-2007, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
Any evidence to support your accusation that Harry is a 'lush'?

100' of 1000's of youngsters go out for a drink, most at some stage have a drink or two too many. I don't know of many who because of a photograph, which only proves he stumbled, get called an alcoholic, waster or lush!
Evidence?? I am not testifying in court, nor am I writing an official document. This is a message board and I am just adding my two cents to the conversation. I have read articles, and seen photos of Harry's drunken behavior for about six years now. I firmly believe he has a problem with alcohol. And, when I look at all the pictures from the night in question I see a very drunk Harry. Witnesses and photos all say he was drunk, at least that is what I read and saw in the links on this thread.

Donna B.
  #135  
Old 03-26-2007, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna B.
I firmly believe he has a problem with alcohol. And, when I look at all the pictures from the night in question I see a very drunk Harry. Witnesses and photos all say he was drunk, at least that is what I read and saw in the links on this thread.
I find it very difficult to 'judge' someone based on the one link, from the red top style Daily Mail, which as we have all seen is far from truthful on the majority of occasions. Nor have we seen a police report, named witness statements or even any complaint. The pictures they show, if rearranged could support any number of accusations or indeed explanations.
Before calling someone an alcoholic or 'lush' (a word I had to look up), I would want more evidence than we have seen in the past 20 odd years. This is part of a definition of alcoholism from wiki.

Alcoholism is the consumption of or preoccupation with alcoholic beverages to the extent that this behavior interferes with the alcoholic's normal personal, family, social, or work life. Alcohol consumption caused by alcoholism can result in psychological and physiological conditions, and ultimately in death.

But then I suppose we all see what we want to see.
  #136  
Old 03-26-2007, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
I find it very difficult to 'judge' someone based on the one link, from the red top style Daily Mail, which as we have all seen is far from truthful on the majority of occasions. Nor have we seen a police report, named witness statements or even any complaint. The pictures they show, if rearranged could support any number of accusations or indeed explanations.
Before calling someone an alcoholic or 'lush' (a word I had to look up), I would want more evidence than we have seen in the past 20 odd years.
But then I suppose we all see what we want to see.
I'll put some links I found with named witnesses. I must be getting my MB's confused I thought there was more than one link here.

Prince Harry drunk as a skunk (Witness listed)

Prince Harry falls drunkenly out of London club Boujis, reportedly attacks a paparazzoPrince Harry: Drunken Photog Scuffle? | celebrity scandals | celebrity sightings | star style (Witness listed)

Harry brawls while Wills drools | News | This is London (Witness listed and click the link in the article to see some pics I hadn't seen yet of Harry that night)

Donna B.
  #137  
Old 03-26-2007, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
Yes a paid protection officer would do the same, it's part of their remit to try to ensure their 'charge' comes to no harm.
It would be nice to have a link to the photos you have apparently seen, because they seem to differ from the ones that were printed in the red tops here.
Believe you me,

If I can obtain the photographs that were aired on Australian TV, you will be the first to see them!
  #138  
Old 03-26-2007, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna B.
I'll put some links I found with named witnesses. I must be getting my MB's confused I thought there was more than one link here.
Your first link names the man making the accusation, (Nirach Tannery) your second link names one man, who could only have been another paparazzi or why was he at the rear of the club? Your third link is the Daily Mails evening paper and shows the same pictures that the 'victim' sold to every media organisation he could find!
  #139  
Old 03-26-2007, 07:47 PM
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If this was Harry's first run in with the media I would be in line to defend him, but, he has had several run in's over the years and as a member of a very public family I just think he needs to tone himself down a little. Sure, all young men like to have a drink, but Harry is the only one who will be photographed and shown across the world news tripping in, in what appears to be a druken stupor. (Whether that is the truth or not, unfortunately we will probably never know). JMO.
  #140  
Old 03-26-2007, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
Your first link names the man making the accusation, (Nirach Tannery) your second link names one man, who could only have been another paparazzi or why was he at the rear of the club? Your third link is the Daily Mails evening paper and shows the same pictures that the 'victim' sold to every media organisation he could find!
Oh, good grief, lol! I am sooo done with this thread. It's truly not that important me that I prove my point to you.....believe what you want.
You were right when you said, we all see what we want to see.....I'm just not sure you were aware that you were referring to yourself.

Donna B.
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