Prince Harry current events 11: August-November 2006 - Page 6

Jo of Palatine · #**101** 10-11-2006, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillia

He's too sheltered, and I think he'd be in way over his head. He'd never even be allowed to do anything but basically file papers and make reports anyway. I have to say honestly I don't feel sorry for him. I'm sure he'll get over it in time.

One should not forget that the Windsors are still Hanoverans and Saxe-Coburg-Gothas plus Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Gluecksburgs when it comes to their descend. All three German Houses were under the earliest families in Germany (in the early middle ages) whose Head had a right to the title "Herzog". This title is the second highest German title after king/emperor (König/Kaiser) but while king/emperor describe a person who rules, so a more "politician" position, the "Herzog" title comes from the fact that this person was the active leader of his troups in war, the active defender of his realm. The king/emperor depended on his "Herzöge" to protect the country.
The word Herzog means the one who "her zog" - the leader who "rides or walks in front of" the troups (direct translation of "her zog"). The same meaning is attached as well to the English "duke" which means the same in position of command and comes from Latin dux - the leader.

There is a slight difference though as the Latin does not imply the actual position the leader has during the battle (he could be commanding from behind the lines) while the Herzog is up front.

So from his whole ancestry for more than 1000 years (general The duke of Marlborough from Diana's side comes to mind as well) prince Harry must have the soldiering and being active in the line of fire in his blood - if he has anything in his blood at all.
If the honourable members of this forum accept that Harry is a Royal due to his ancestry, they must accept IMHO as well that fighting and leading men into battle is in his blood as well. You can't have one without the other.

Thus I feel for the prince who is deprived of the position he worked hard for during his military training because he is the descendant of countless commanding soldiers...

But of course I see that the thought that his troup might be a special target because of his mere posting to this troup is one who has to be considered. But acting on it IMHO is inviting irrational decisions - after all any militarian leader is a target due to his elevated position and the value he has within the chain of command. So I'd post prince Harry with the general who is in command (you have to protect this officer anyway!) - just like the prince of Orange was an staff officer and an ordinance for the duke of Wellington on fighting Napoleon and at the battle of Waterloo.

Jo of Palatine · #**102** 10-11-2006, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oppie

Do you think there is a chance that he would be sent somewhere else ? I remember at some point there was a suggestion that William would go to Kosovo. Is there anywhere else that they could send him that is a little less dangerous than Afgainistan and Iraq. Peacekeeping perhaps ?

Don't think they want him to meet a nurse in the Kosova like Louis of Luxembourg did...

grevinnan · #**103** 10-11-2006, 09:06 AM

Shame on his advisors and military leadership that did not make it clear to him prior to starting his military career that he would have to stay home while his class mates did their service to their country. It is probably true that in war his head would be a trophy for the enemy and he would bring unwanted attention to his troop. Poor planning on everyones part from the beginning - or perhaps they did not think he would finish the training and consequently make the issue irrelevant.

Skydragon · #**104** 10-12-2006, 10:22 AM

Harry completes training to become troop leader

Prince Harry has become an Armoured Reconnaissance Troop Leader after finishing his latest round of training.
The royal Army officer spent four and a half months learning the ins and outs of Scimitar tanks and armoured tactics.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...der/article.do

Jo of Palatine · #**105** 10-12-2006, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skydragon

Harry completes training to become troop leader

Prince Harry has become an Armoured Reconnaissance Troop Leader after finishing his latest round of training.
The royal Army officer spent four and a half months learning the ins and outs of Scimitar tanks and armoured tactics.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...der/article.do

For me this is sad, very sad. I'm reminded of the prince Eugene of Savoy who became the greatest military leader of his time on sucessfully keeping the "infidels" out of Europe. Prince Eugene was a "spare", too and - as his family were members of the court of Louis XIV. of France he was destined to be a priest - thus the king called him "the little abbé of Savoy". Noone took his wish to become a soldier seriously, so he changed sides and became the emperor of Germyn's most trusted military leader. Today his "Belvedere"-palais and gardens are one of the most beautiful sights of Vienna. And of course he was the hero of Belgrad, saving Christian Europe from the Turkish Invasion.

Why is it so incomprehensible that prince Harry could be one day a Nato general from Britain? Why is it so unbelievable that a relative of admiral prince Rupert of the Palatinate (brother to electress Sophie and a son of princess Elizabeth Stuart) and "butcher Cumberland", that a descendent of William the Conqueror and Edward Plantagenet could be a sucessful military commander?
If the prince don't mind giving his life for his grandmother's kingdom, why should anyone else?

Skydragon · #**106** 10-12-2006, 03:26 PM

Taken from the article, as you can see, nobody has actually said he can't go

'But reports have suggested that the Army is reluctant to send Harry, second in line to the throne, into a war zone'. They are guessing.

No decision has been made on future deployments, but the Ministry of Defence admitted there could be situations where it could be too dangerous for Harry to serve. - No secrets there then.

"The intention is that he will undertake the fullest range of deployment but on occasion there may be some circumstances in which his overt presence might attract additional attention that could lead to an exponential rise in the risk to those he commands," a MoD spokesman said.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...der/article.do

Jo of Palatine · #**107** 10-12-2006, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skydragon

Taken from the article, as you can see, nobody has actually said he can't go

'But reports have suggested that the Army is reluctant to send Harry, second in line to the throne, into a war zone'. They are guessing.

No decision has been made on future deployments, but the Ministry of Defence admitted there could be situations where it could be too dangerous for Harry to serve. - No secrets there then.

"The intention is that he will undertake the fullest range of deployment but on occasion there may be some circumstances in which his overt presence might attract additional attention that could lead to an exponential rise in the risk to those he commands," a MoD spokesman said.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...der/article.do

Skydragon, thank you very much for pointing this out. Of course you're right and I sincerely hope that no one's hopes for a success in his chosen profession are dowsed because of his family's background.

Roslyn · #**108** 10-12-2006, 06:31 PM

There is a recent precedent for the spare serving in a war zone. Prince Andrew served aboard the HMS Invincible in the Falklands War, before William was born. According to Wikipedia, Queen insisted he stay with his ship when the Government was worried about him being killed in action. He served in situations where there was a very real risk of injury or death. One of the things he did was act as Exocet missile decoy, which sounds fairly risky to me.

What is the difference? I am inclined to suspect it might be more the fear of Harry being taken hostage than being killed in action that has people wary of him serving in a war zone.

What do others think?

Lillia · #**109** 10-12-2006, 06:40 PM

I heard the same as well about Prince Andrew. I know that others will vehemently disagree, but I still think that Harry should go into a former hot spot, like Kosovo, Bosnia or the Balkans. That is my own opinion. Maybe he will surprise everyone (again) and find a way to get to Afganistan or Iraq and get the tag 'war hero' pinned onto him. If he does, then good for him that's great.

I know he did all the training and it has been reported that he is super-anxious to participate, but just like this so called 'ban' has been called a suggestion (#106), it is likely any hoopla about Harry's so-called sadness over it could also be a suggestion from the media or wherever. It makes me wonder though if any idea that he might not be allowed to go into an actual war zone to do battle would be a total surprise to him. None of that makes a difference if his regimine is not called up.

I would agree that like any family, his own family would be concerned that something would happen to him over there.

Lillia · #**110** 10-12-2006, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

One should not forget that the Windsors are still Hanoverans and Saxe-Coburg-Gothas plus Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Gluecksburgs when it comes to their descend. All three German Houses were under the earliest families in Germany (in the early middle ages) whose Head had a right to the title "Herzog". This title is the second highest German title after king/emperor (König/Kaiser) but while king/emperor describe a person who rules, so a more "politician" position, the "Herzog" title comes from the fact that this person was the active leader of his troups in war, the active defender of his realm. The king/emperor depended on his "Herzöge" to protect the country.
The word Herzog means the one who "her zog" - the leader who "rides or walks in front of" the troups (direct translation of "her zog"). The same meaning is attached as well to the English "duke" which means the same in position of command and comes from Latin dux - the leader.

There is a slight difference though as the Latin does not imply the actual position the leader has during the battle (he could be commanding from behind the lines) while the Herzog is up front.

So from his whole ancestry for more than 1000 years (general The duke of Marlborough from Diana's side comes to mind as well) prince Harry must have the soldiering and being active in the line of fire in his blood - if he has anything in his blood at all.
If the honourable members of this forum accept that Harry is a Royal due to his ancestry, they must accept IMHO as well that fighting and leading men into battle is in his blood as well. You can't have one without the other.

Thus I feel for the prince who is deprived of the position he worked hard for during his military training because he is the descendant of countless commanding soldiers...

But of course I see that the thought that his troup might be a special target because of his mere posting to this troup is one who has to be considered. But acting on it IMHO is inviting irrational decisions - after all any militarian leader is a target due to his elevated position and the value he has within the chain of command. So I'd post prince Harry with the general who is in command (you have to protect this officer anyway!) - just like the prince of Orange was an staff officer and an ordinance for the duke of Wellington on fighting Napoleon and at the battle of Waterloo.

Good information. Thanks for sharing that Jo

branchg · #**111** 10-12-2006, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roslyn

There is a recent precedent for the spare serving in a war zone. Prince Andrew served aboard the HMS Invincible in the Falklands War, before William was born. According to Wikipedia, Queen insisted he stay with his ship when the Government was worried about him being killed in action. He served in situations where there was a very real risk of injury or death. One of the things he did was act as Exocet missile decoy, which sounds fairly risky to me.

What is the difference? I am inclined to suspect it might be more the fear of Harry being taken hostage than being killed in action that has people wary of him serving in a war zone.

What do others think?

Well, for one thing, Andrew was not third in-line to the throne at the time, which makes quite a difference.

Oppie · #**112** 10-12-2006, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Well, for one thing, Andrew was not third in-line to the throne at the time, which makes quite a difference.

He was second/third in line (depending if you count William who was born one week after the war ended) the war was between March-June 1982

Quote:

Don't think they want him to meet a nurse in the Kosova like Louis of Luxembourg did...

Royal Fan · #**113** 10-12-2006, 09:20 PM

NOOOOO lol not a good idea Marry first then child espeially with him !

HRH Kimetha · #**114** 10-12-2006, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillia

I heard the same as well about Prince Andrew. I know that others will vehemently disagree, but I still think that Harry should go into a former hot spot, like Kosovo, Bosnia or the Balkans. That is my own opinion. Maybe he will surprise everyone (again) and find a way to get to Afganistan or Iraq and get the tag 'war hero' pinned onto him. If he does, then good for him that's great...

I agree with you Lillia. He should be able to be sent to those areas without the press getting knowledge of that.

Quote:

...I would agree that like any family, his own family would be concerned that something would happen to him over there.

My sentiments as well.

kpusa1981 · #**115** 10-13-2006, 04:09 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6043912.stm

Quote:

Prince Harry is set to command about a dozen soldiers after completing his latest round of training.

I thought that you may not have this.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006470655,00.html

Quote:

Harry wants Chelsy in UK
PRINCE Harry has jetted 6,000 miles to beg girlfriend Chelsy Davy to come and live in England.
The besotted Royal arrived in South Africa yesterday to attend her 21st birthday party.

http://www.wireimage.com/GalleryList...=238996&nbc1=1

HRH Prince Harry arrives in Cape Town, South Africa, October 12, 2006, to attend his...
USA AND JAPAN ONLY

Mystery ... Harry wears Parachute Regiment T-shirt only qualified Paras are allowed to.

Skydragon is he really not allowed to wear this T-shirt? Then why is he? Could he have been doing the Troop Leader and the Para training at the same time or dose this mean that he will be doing the training early next year?

Avalon · #**116** 10-13-2006, 01:04 PM

Troop Leader Harry
Prince now leader of armoured troop

Prince Harry has become an Armoured Reconnaissance Troop Leader after finishing his latest round of training.
The royal Army officer spent four-and-a-half months learning the ins and outs of Scimitar tanks and armoured tactics.

Avalon · #**117** 10-13-2006, 01:09 PM

Harry's love flight
Harry 'wants Chelsy to live with him'
Prince Harry Tries To Persuade Girlfriend Of Moving To England

There's no stopping a British prince from being away from the one he loves. Prince Harry recently flew 6,000 miles on Thursday so he could beg his South African girlfriend to move to England and reside with him in the country permanently.