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  #821  
Old 08-14-2015, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
Exactly. Agreements are in place exactly like with other royals. And all british media follows them.. But what do you expect them to do?! Bake a backroom deal with every little magazine in Australia, US, Germany etc? It's just not doable. That's the difference between them and other royals. If the Swedish royal family makes a deal with the Swedish media that chokes the demand (except for an odd picture here and there in germany) but if the BRF does the same they only choke the British media and make them angry for having to follow different standards.

Exactly!

Every supermarket tabloid in the USA offers pics of the BRF, specifically the Cambridges.

There's no point in having comparisons with the Swedish or the Spanish or the Danish RFs; it's a completely different situation that comes down to supply and demand.

I don't know why it is so; but it is what it is.
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  #822  
Old 08-14-2015, 10:20 PM
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You have large countries such as Canada, New Zealand and Australia will ties to the British Crown. The U.S. has historical ties to the UK. Plus a common language. Most Americans can't read a foreign language so your not going to the read articles in foreign papers about other royals where you don't understand. Same with videos. But the UK papers can be read and the British royals understood. Millions of Americans can identify QEII, W&K, H, C&C, Diana etc. Most wouldn't even know that there are monarchies in Norway, Sweden or Denmark or be able to pick the monarch out of a line up.


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  #823  
Old 08-14-2015, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
The practice of using a press pool is a routine practice. Certain events is not feasible to have every press reporter or photographer there. We see it all the time on royal tours. Take when they went to NZ- there was a press group at the airport and a different group at the Govt House welcoming since it would be impossible to both places in time to cover both events. But the pool people have to share with the others that weren't there. So if Arthur Edwards was outside the church at Sandringham as the pool photographer for the christening, the photos are shared by the other media outlets and not are exclusive to the Sun where he works.


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Yes, using a pool reporter is common practice at all kinds of events, and not just with the royals. For example, for those who pay attention to photo agencies and photo credits, it's very common to see pictures credited to the "pool," usually along with the name of the photographer, e.g. "Arthur Edwards/pool" or "Associated Press/pool." There's nothing unusual about this, except that some royal reporters choose to get their noses out of joint about it (or anything else they can find to get worked up about) and then use it as an excuse to lash out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daria_S View Post
I was under the same impression. Never in my wildest dreams did I even imagine that the sleazy creeps would do what they've been doing just for a glimpse of a little boy, and a little girl under the age of three. Disgusting. Like others have already been doing on this thread, I won't be looking at any pap shots that are posted.



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In the back of my mind, I know how creepy the paparazzi can be, but I hadn't really considered how bad it could be for two children who are so small (I've only come across paparazzi pictures of George a couple of times, though, since a lot of main websites and blogs now refrain from posting that kind of thing. I would imagine it's a problem the Cambridges face a lot more often than I'm aware of). For William and Kate to seek to limit this kind of behavior from taking place around their children is, IMO, only natural. What kind of parent would find that sort of behavior acceptable, no matter who they are? Add to that the fact that William himself used to get very upset about the paparazzi when he was a child - he certainly isn't going to want his children to suffer from that kind of thing. At the same time, he and Kate are clearly fully aware that they're members of the royal family, and that that comes with certain obligations. It's not as if they keep George hidden away.
  #824  
Old 08-14-2015, 11:23 PM
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I'm worried about the security if you can find out where he is and get close enough to take photo you could shoot too. I know they want him to live a normal life but the risks are great. These are scary times we are living in.


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  #825  
Old 08-14-2015, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isabella View Post







In the back of my mind, I know how creepy the paparazzi can be, but I hadn't really considered how bad it could be for two children who are so small (I've only come across paparazzi pictures of George a couple of times, though, since a lot of main websites and blogs now refrain from posting that kind of thing. I would imagine it's a problem the Cambridges face a lot more often than I'm aware of). For William and Kate to seek to limit this kind of behavior from taking place around their children is, IMO, only natural. What kind of parent would find that sort of behavior acceptable, no matter who they are? Add to that the fact that William himself used to get very upset about the paparazzi when he was a child - he certainly isn't going to want his children to suffer from that kind of thing. At the same time, he and Kate are clearly fully aware that they're members of the royal family, and that that comes with certain obligations. It's not as if they keep George hidden away.
You're absolutely right; no parent, regardless of how famous should accept this kind of behavior when it comes to his/her children. William knows what it's like to be hounded by the paps, so I would be very concerned if he thought that his own children should have this kind of experience. It's scary, and upsetting, because no matter how many pictures this couple provides, it will never be enough. Yes, they're aware of who they are, and the demand of the public for details about themselves, and their children, but it shouldn't come to jeopardizing the safety of the family. That doesn't come with the territory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by royal rob View Post
I'm worried about the security if you can find out where he is and get close enough to take photo you could shoot too. I know they want him to live a normal life but the risks are great. These are scary times we are living in.


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You and me both. It would be so easy for a crazy loon to get close, and do some awful damage. I think for that reason alone, the RPOs should be able to shoot at anyone who acts suspicious and is too close to the children.



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  #826  
Old 08-14-2015, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royal rob View Post
I'm worried about the security if you can find out where he is and get close enough to take photo you could shoot too. I know they want him to live a normal life but the risks are great. These are scary times we are living in.


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I was thinking that too - if you see George in a park or in a petting zoo, it's probably not that hard for someone intent enough to identify it.

I don't see a real solution to this situation.

Who's the pap, is it Tanna?
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  #827  
Old 08-14-2015, 11:55 PM
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I know part of this starts with us, the consumer. After Diana was killed I stopped buying any sort of tabloid or gossip type magazine....that includes People, Star, US etc etc. In fact I don't buy any magazines, haven't in years now.

IF we stop feeding the paps money for these types of shots there won't be a market.


LaRae
  #828  
Old 08-15-2015, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I know part of this starts with us, the consumer. After Diana was killed I stopped buying any sort of tabloid or gossip type magazine....that includes People, Star, US etc etc. In fact I don't buy any magazines, haven't in years now.

IF we stop feeding the paps money for these types of shots there won't be a market.


LaRae
The thing is, the Internet is the real problem now. For one thing, some magazines, such as People, have signed on to the No Kids Policy, so they hardly publish paparazzi pictures of children anymore. A number of websites and blogs are also on board with that, but there will always be sites that don't care and will buy and post the pictures. The problem is that, of course, we don't typically have to pay to access websites, so we don't really think about the fact that we're contributing to the revenue of those sites just by clicking on them. Also, while many entertainment websites that adhere to the No Kids Policy do make that clear somewhere on the site, how often do we check for those things or think about them before we click a link?

Personally, most of the entertainment websites and blogs that I stick to are pretty mainstream and generally avoid posting paparazzi pics of kids. However, like anybody, I browse the web and come across different sites all the time. I remember being surprised about a year ago, because I stumbled across some random celebrity blog, and I was surprised to see that they had a post with paparazzi pictures of Kate and George. Until then, I hadn't seen any paparazzi pictures of George and so I kind of assumed that he was being left alone (because I come across news about royals all the time, and assumed that I would have seen any such pictures elsewhere). So, it's tricky. There's always going to be someone willing to post the pictures. In fact, if mainstream sites avoid posting the pictures, that gives lesser-known sites even more incentive to post them, because they know there's an audience for it. And most people don't realize that just clicking a link can contribute to a problem.
  #829  
Old 08-15-2015, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isabella View Post
The fact is, though, that the BRF are much more widely known than any of the other royal families, and that legitimately presents them with a different set of problems. A picture of Prince George is going to be worth much more than a picture of, say, Princess Estelle, simply because it can be sold to so many media outlets around the world. It's the amount of money involved that makes the paparazzi go to extreme lengths to get pictures of these children. I'm really not sure how William and Kate have made it harder on themselves. Since Charlotte's birth, we've certainly seen more of Prince George in public (in addition to pictures released by the family) - and yet there seems to have been an increase in paparazzi pictures of George since then. What are they supposed to do? If a simple agreement could be easily drawn up, I'm sure it would have been done long ago.
It is true that the press wants more photos of George than of princess Estelle, but Victoria and Daniel take Estelle to their official work events and family celebrations so often that the need of paparazzi photos isn't as big. The chief editors of Expressen and Aftonbladet promised when Estelle was born, that they will not publish paparazzi photos/photos taken by people with their own cameras of her as long as the court gives photos and Estelle is seen at some official events.
This year Estelle has been photographed at events:
January: At an event at an official visit to San Francisco and two times at the European Figure Skating Championships with her parents
February: The court published four photos on Estelle’s birthday and Estelle attended on three days at the FIS Nordic World Ski Championships
March: Estelle attended on one day at the FIS Nordic World Ski Championships and at Crown princess Victoria’s Official Name Day celebration. She attended also with the royal family at the christening of Désirée Magnuson.
April: King Carl Gustaf’s official birthday celebration
May: The court published two photos of Estelle, Estelle arrived with her parents to visit to Kalmar. Estelle attended at the publishing of the banns of Carl Philip and Sofia
June: The court published a photo of Estelle on a traditional Sweden dress at the National Day and Estelle took part at the National Day cortege to Skansen. Estelle was the bridesmaid at Carl Philip’s and Sofia’s wedding
July: Estelle took part at Crown princess Victoria’s official birthday celebration in Solliden.
The photos have been published largely in the foreign press too.

Then there were photos of Estelle at a skiing holiday with Victoria in Verbier in February, and in Denmark at the courtyard of Fredensborg Palace when Victoria and Daniel were at queen Margrethe’s birthday, and now the mostly paparazzi photos of Estelle at a holiday with her parents in St. Maxime.
As for George, the press doesn't get these days much photos of William and Catherine at their royal work events, and the pressure to get photos of the children gets even bigger. But of course stalking isn't acceptable.
  #830  
Old 08-15-2015, 02:29 AM
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Here and there I read in this thread that little can be done but the Dutch and the Swedes have a pro-active media policy and set up a code, vested upon the jurisprudence in the case Caroline von Hannover vs Germany.

Media have been fined, some with paying serious damages and with the threat of a publication ban which would bring enormous economic damage to the publisher and owner of that medium. Look what happened to News Of The World, one of the biggest printed mediums and now simply closed, the whole redaction fired and some managers and chiefs prosecuted.

As long as media respect this principle, all these actions by the palace were not needed. It is all relatively simple. Persons have the right on an undisturbed and un-infringed private life, even when you are Cristiano Ronaldo or George Cambridge.
  #831  
Old 08-15-2015, 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
It is true that the press wants more photos of George than of princess Estelle, but Victoria and Daniel take Estelle to their official work events and family celebrations so often that the need of paparazzi photos isn't as big. The chief editors of Expressen and Aftonbladet promised when Estelle was born, that they will not publish paparazzi photos/photos taken by people with their own cameras of her as long as the court gives photos and Estelle is seen at some official events.
This year Estelle has been photographed at events:
January: At an event at an official visit to San Francisco and two times at the European Figure Skating Championships with her parents
February: The court published four photos on Estelle’s birthday and Estelle attended on three days at the FIS Nordic World Ski Championships
March: Estelle attended on one day at the FIS Nordic World Ski Championships and at Crown princess Victoria’s Official Name Day celebration. She attended also with the royal family at the christening of Désirée Magnuson.
April: King Carl Gustaf’s official birthday celebration
May: The court published two photos of Estelle, Estelle arrived with her parents to visit to Kalmar. Estelle attended at the publishing of the banns of Carl Philip and Sofia
June: The court published a photo of Estelle on a traditional Sweden dress at the National Day and Estelle took part at the National Day cortege to Skansen. Estelle was the bridesmaid at Carl Philip’s and Sofia’s wedding
July: Estelle took part at Crown princess Victoria’s official birthday celebration in Solliden.
The photos have been published largely in the foreign press too.

Then there were photos of Estelle at a skiing holiday with Victoria in Verbier in February, and in Denmark at the courtyard of Fredensborg Palace when Victoria and Daniel were at queen Margrethe’s birthday, and now the mostly paparazzi photos of Estelle at a holiday with her parents in St. Maxime.
As for George, the press doesn't get these days much photos of William and Catherine at their royal work events, and the pressure to get photos of the children gets even bigger. But of course stalking isn't acceptable.
It's just such a different situation. Sweden is a much smaller country than th UK, and the international interest in Estelle is significantly smaller than the interest in George (to put it mildly). That's great that the Swedish royal family was able to get agreements from Expressen and Aftonbladet, but that's only two newspapers to deal with. Admittedly, I'm not particularly well-acquainted with the Swedish press, but I'm very familiar with the British press, and I would imagine that even attempting to negotiate with them would be hellish (and even if they do reach an agreement with the royal family, frequently one paper will end up breaking some part of the agreement, and then the rest will feel free to follow suit). Even when they do get the British press to cooperate, there are still hundreds (thousands?) of newspapers and magazines abroad that are willing to publish what the British won't. And, of course, the Internet makes impossible to contain these things, which, again, often means that those things wind up in the British press anyway. Most importantly, this is all driven by money. Many paparazzi work freelance (so, a bit hard to reach an agreement there), and they know they have a worldwide audience to sell pictures to.

And then, of course, we have the fact that the Swedish royal family and the British royal family are in quite different situations in a number of ways. we've seen George at events that he might be expected to be at: Trooping the Colour, Charlotte's christening, polo matches. There were plenty of glimpses of him on the trip to Australia and New Zealand. Just off the top of my head, there are two big differences, though, between the situation in the UK and Sweden: first, Victoria is the heir to the throne, whereas William is the heir to the heir (and in a much larger royal family). William is not yet a full time royal, and his primary job is piloting air ambulances. So, it's probably not a good idea for him to bring his toddler to work with him. Also, I think Sweden is a bit more relaxed about bringing small children to certain events. For example, baby Estelle attended Madeleine's wedding, and baby Leonore attended Carl Philip's wedding. I can't quite imagine that happening with the British royal family - they don't even bring small children to the Christmas or Easter services. I like both the Swedish royals and the British royals, but they're really very different in many ways.
  #832  
Old 08-15-2015, 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Here and there I read in this thread that little can be done but the Dutch and the Swedes have a pro-active media policy and set up a code, vested upon the jurisprudence in the case Caroline von Hannover vs Germany.

Media have been fined, some with paying serious damages and with the threat of a publication ban which would bring enormous economic damage to the publisher and owner of that medium. Look what happened to News Of The World, one of the biggest printed mediums and now simply closed, the whole redaction fired and some managers and chiefs prosecuted.

As long as media respect this principle, all these actions by the palace were not needed. It is all relatively simple. Persons have the right on an undisturbed and un-infringed private life, even when you are Cristiano Ronaldo or George Cambridge.
Media? Respect? Principle? Simple? It's clearly time for me to go to sleep, because I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not.
  #833  
Old 08-15-2015, 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Agree 100%!! How can be judged if a photographer used a questionable tactic or not, and that concerns any royal family.

If posters are afraid that they could look at pictures of George and Charlotte that have a questionable source should check on the respective event and refrain from opening the photolinks if the event in question wasnt on the official calendar.

To suggest that 'general news' photos of the Cambridge kids should be banned on this forum (if they are not clearly violating law) is simply ridiculous.
It all boils down to what do the individual reader do?

Scenario: Pics of George playing in a playground. Obviously taken from some distance. Say like looking at him from 25 meters. There are a couple of other children there in the pics and a woman, perhaps a nanny.
In none of the pictures seem George or anyone else the least bit aware of the photographer.
There is no mentioning in the captions that his parents were present. There is no direct mentioning of where or when the pics were taken.
Credit is some photo agency.

You have the opportunity to comment on the pics. (Moderated).
You have an e-mail address to the media.

Now, what do you (not just Duke of Marmalade and Lumutqueen) do?

Stop buying the magazine/newspaper - alternatively visiting the website? At least for a period.
Write and voice your protest?
Let the media have the benefit of doubt?
Nothing, because George is fair game and no one was hurt?
Nothing, because there is nothing to do about it anyway. Such pics will always surface somewhere anyway, so why not look at them?
Nothing, but fully support (in mind) if someone else write a protest or call for the media to be reported.
- You see my point?

Second scenario:
A similar media, newspaper, magazine, website, have on a number of occasions shown adverts of among other things smaller children wearing, shall we say, pretty adult underwear. - What would you do?
And if you do anything now and was passive in the above scenario, how come? - The children are unknown. No one was hurt. So what's the big deal?

You see what I mean?
It's down to the individual reader. If enough of us, in one way or another, object, the media bosses will be forced to react.
For those who think a reader boycott is hopeless, look no further than to the Sun and the city of Liverpool.

There have been plenty of official photo-ops with George. Personally I can't see why I should have to look at pics of him playing in backyard. He's a child! There is a limit to how many interesting things he will be up to.
  #834  
Old 08-15-2015, 03:45 AM
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I agree with LadyFinn that the Swedish model works. Seven months and seven opportunities to see and take photographs of Estelle. Prince William has taken pride in being forward thinking and he more than anyone knows that both George and Charlotte are going to have to learn about life.

Unfortunately, it seems that William has forgotten who he is, forgotten that photographers wanted photos of him and his little brother. That they were not ordinary kids, regardless of the fact their mother enjoyed freedom growing up and tried to give them an ordinary life.

But, the cold hard truth is that William has children and it's his turn to do the best he can to give them as ordinary a life as he can. However, now more than ever, his children are at risk in ways he and Harry weren't and it's his job to teach them to live and learn that they are not ordinary and that security and photographers will be a part of their lives forever.

The more the Cambridge's hide their children the more market there is for photos of any kind. So it is up to them to throw a few more bones to their adoring royal fans. The more official photos out there, the less market for "illegal" photos.

If the media of the Commonwealth sign on to a contract like those that covered William and Harry it makes it easier to go after those who break the rules.

It's not a perfect world and there will always be those that operate outside of decency and safety, but being both realistic and pro-active helps draw those lines.
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  #835  
Old 08-15-2015, 04:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isabella View Post
Media? Respect? Principle? Simple? It's clearly time for me to go to sleep, because I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not.
In the Dutch case they have offered a media code, a sort of arrangement with the media. The Royal House offers access to photoshoots, access to events related to the Royal House like birthdays, jubilees, weddings, funerals, etc.

When outside this the royals are infringed in their private lifesphere, they are almost sure to win. Not only they have the jurisprudence at their side, they can also show the media code which is an arrangement to meet the media in their desire to obtain material of private nature. So the lawyers for the Royal House can state that the royals have been well-willing and cooperative by making these arrangements but despite all this were not spared the nuisance of photographers and/or reporters pursuing or spying on them with the aim of taking photographs and/or provoking verbal responses.

Since the establishment of this media code and a series of won legal battles, it has become pretty regulated and calm. The three Princesses simply go to the village school in Wassenaar, having class with fellow children from the same village and are indeed really left alone. The press interest remains massive. Then a day at the beach looks like this.

  #836  
Old 08-15-2015, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
[...]

Unfortunately, it seems that William has forgotten who he is, forgotten that photographers wanted photos of him and his little brother. That they were not ordinary kids, regardless of the fact their mother enjoyed freedom growing up and tried to give them an ordinary life.

[...]
I don't think that William has forgotten that the press has mercilessly hunted his mother, ultimately causing her tragic death...



That he and his brother, or his own children are no ordinary citizens does not mean that they have to endure the nuisance of photographers or reporters pursuing or spying on them with the aim of taking photographs or provoking verbal responses. European law is crystalclear about that and William has a very strong case when he ultimately fights for the right of his children to have a private live.
  #837  
Old 08-15-2015, 06:40 AM
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Oh please, let's keep on topic. This adds nothing to the discussion but rather sends it off on a tangent.

My point was that the world that William and Harry now live in is totally different from that in which they grew up. There were no cellphones and people took photos with cameras. The internet was an infant and the distance a telescopic lens can now cover was something he and Catherine found out the hard way.

At no time have I hinted that because:
Quote:
his own children are no ordinary citizens does not mean that they have to endure the nuisance of photographers or reporters pursuing or spying on them with the aim of taking photographs or provoking verbal responses.
I merely said he should address the situation proactively!

To tell a half truth is more of a lie than an outright lie.
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  #838  
Old 08-15-2015, 06:54 AM
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The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge deserve "some privacy and some space" to bring up their children, David Cameron has said, after Kensington Palace accused paparazzi photographers of harassing Prince George.

The Prime Minister said he had "every sympathy" with William and Kate after it was claimed that some photographers were going to "extreme lengths" to get pictures of their two-year-old son.

In an unusually strongly worded open letter issued on Friday, Jason Knauf, the communications secretary of the Duke and Duchess, said the tactics were creating a "very real security risk".

Mr Cameron said that while the British press had behaved "very well" in not publishing paparazzi photographs of George, some foreign news outlets had to be persuaded not to use them.

He told BBC Breakfast: "I am concerned and I have every sympathy with the royal couple. They very generously have made available pictures of their wonderful children to the British press and the British press have behaved, frankly, very well because they printed those pictures.
Read More: William and Kate deserve privacy for George and Charlotte, says David Cameron - BT
  #839  
Old 08-15-2015, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Oh please, let's keep on topic. This adds nothing to the discussion but rather sends it off on a tangent.

My point was that the world that William and Harry now live in is totally different from that in which they grew up. There were no cellphones and people took photos with cameras. The internet was an infant and the distance a telescopic lens can now cover was something he and Catherine found out the hard way.

At no time have I hinted that because:I merely said he should address the situation proactively!


To tell a half truth is more of a lie than an outright lie.
Prince Harry stated in a TV interview in I believe Afghanistan that and I paraphrase, there is no such thing as privacy anymore. Every one has a camera phone. I doubt either he or his brother are niave about privacy issues.
  #840  
Old 08-15-2015, 08:52 AM
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The normal person with a cell phone isn't a problem. They are just going to post their royal picture on Instagram or Facebook for their friends to see. It's the person hiding in the bushes, sand dune, car boot, etc with the long lens camera that is going to sell the photos for money that is the problem.

I am going to disagree that the Swedish Estelle model would work with George. From May to July -a 2 month span, we had 4 in person George events (hospital, balcony, polo, christening) and posed photos released for the christening, a photo for his bday and Kate's photos of her 2 babies. More George than we have ever seen George before. But he was still papped at the beach, playground, petting zoo.

The population of the UK 64 million is six times greater than the population of Sweden 9.6 million. London is 8.6 million itself. Add in the population of Canada 35 million, Australia 23 million, New Zealand 4 million and the U.S. 319 million . That's 445 million people. So if 1% of Sweden were interested in Estelle photos and 1% of the U.S.,UK, Aus, NZ block were interested in George photos- 9600 to 4.45 million for George so the person hiding in the bushes has a greater chance for gain in Norfolk than in Stockholm.

So it if the demand for papped Royal kids falls from people not clicking links, the price will fall to.

Can we get a discussion about what the forum's policy will be for this kind of pictures? I know that when the beach photos were out the mobile app of the Royal forums automatically loaded links and the pictures were shown in the thread without being clicked. Most people are probably using a mobile device instead of a pc to view this forum. Probably a lot of us now knowing the lengths being used would like to refrain from increasing the demand for this types of pictures.


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