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  #161  
Old 09-22-2011, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Are we to condemn the entire Bin Laden family because of Osama. They are after all a very large,wealthy and important business family. As I recall former President George H W Bush was meeting with the family on 9/11. The family had distanced themselves from Osama before that date. I note that it was the Foreign Office which approved that the visit should go ahead.

Exactly - the Bin Ladin family aren't all the same as one member of that family. Most of them were totally horrified at his behaviour and had disowned him in the 1990s or even earlier. They shouldn't be condemned because of one person (like the family of any other mass murderer shouldn't be classed in the same way as the guilty one).

I understand that this trip had been arranged and approved before Andrew stood down from the position as Trade Ambassador.
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  #162  
Old 09-22-2011, 10:06 PM
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Andrew always has an excuse as to why he can't use normal flights. He has a long track record of preferring to use private planes. He knew about this months in advance surely he could off worked around the date and made sure he could off taken a normal flight? That seems to be the main complaint. This has been talked about in the past and he has had his knuckles wrapped for it so you would think he and the Palace would be a little more careful. Sadly Andrew also has a reputation for hanging out with the wrong crowd and just the name Bin Laden looks bad. Some people wouldn't know or even care that they wanted nothing to do with Osama. It's about perception and the papers know how to make things look as bad as possible. Something the Palace and Prince Andrew know well by now.
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  #163  
Old 09-23-2011, 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I understand that this trip had been arranged and approved before Andrew stood down from the position as Trade Ambassador.
Then hopefully we have seen the last of Andrew taking part in such a "mission".
  #164  
Old 09-23-2011, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Then hopefully we have seen the last of Andrew taking part in such a "mission".

As these sorts of trips are arranged at least 6 months, if not a year, in advance probably not.

His new role is to promote British interests at home and abroad but without the title so I doubt that he has made the last of these missions.

The countries of the mid-east and central Asia actually prefer to deal with a royal in these situations as they feel that it gives them a cache so I expect Andrew to continue without the title and that is all.
  #165  
Old 09-24-2011, 12:01 AM
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There's the rub. I have no doubt that having an HRH in front of his name opens doors for Andrew, particularly in these "controversial" countries; and if that helps the economy in some way, I'm all for his involvement. The problem, if I'm picking up on things correctly, is that Andrew is seen to do everything in very high style--helicopters and private jets and so on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The countries of the mid-east and central Asia actually prefer to deal with a royal in these situations as they feel that it gives them a cache so I expect Andrew to continue without the title and that is all.
  #166  
Old 09-24-2011, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
There's the rub. I have no doubt that having an HRH in front of his name opens doors for Andrew, particularly in these "controversial" countries; and if that helps the economy in some way, I'm all for his involvement. The problem, if I'm picking up on things correctly, is that Andrew is seen to do everything in very high style--helicopters and private jets and so on.

But for some of these people he is dealing with it is also necessary for him to appear to be as rich as them and to therefore live as they live - thus private planes and helicopters etc.

Image is important - and the image of the down-to-earth BRF that works in Britain and the western world won't cut it in the mid-east and central Asia - which a lot of people have never understood but Andrew has.
  #167  
Old 09-24-2011, 02:48 AM
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So, in a sense, you're saying that there's a "method in his madness." The extravagant life-style is in effect a marketing technique.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Image is important - and the image of the down-to-earth BRF that works in Britain and the western world won't cut it in the mid-east and central Asia - which a lot of people have never understood but Andrew has.
  #168  
Old 09-24-2011, 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
So, in a sense, you're saying that there's a "method in his madness." The extravagant life-style is in effect a marketing technique.

Yes - but unfortunately the ordinary British citizen doesn't understand that aspect of his role.
  #169  
Old 09-24-2011, 03:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Yes - but unfortunately the ordinary British citizen doesn't understand that aspect of his role.
I agree with you Iluvbertie, he would lose all respect if he turned up as a passenger in tourist class when visiting royals of any country, especially the Arab countries where opulence is part of being royal.
Whether he is actually doing anything good for his country is another question or is he just having a jolly jaunt. We can hope that he manages to pass on a message to his hosts and does get some results, we don't hear of them but then that doesn't mean they don't exist (or vice versa for that matter).My only objection is that they just changed his official title and he is carrying on doing exactly the same, this hints slightly of dishonesty towards the public.
.
  #170  
Old 09-24-2011, 04:21 AM
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The problem being is that it is the British taxpayers picking up this tab for him to look flash etc. If he arrived in first class I don't really see anyone being too worried about it. Prince Andrew is not a billionaire he is a working royal who has to answer for this sort of action. He has gotten in trouble time and time again for using helicopters and private planes. The whole he has to do it for image is just a pathetic excuse if you ask me. The helicopters are used in Britain so the arguement doesn't work there at all, a lot of these private plane rides have been questioned because Andrew seems to keep mixing playing golf and private holidays along with them and there is no reason he couldn't get a scheduled flight they are planned months in advance. He spends more money then the Queen on travel! The trouble is also that you can't tell if he is value for money, what if anything has actually come out of all these visits? That needs to be considered and needs to be shown that he is actually doing some good. As far as most people are concerned he is no longer in that role so he shouldn't be doing these jaunts. The press are going to jump all over him and BP if they think they have been had. Andrew is being watched very closely and he should be making smarter decisions. I don't see how flying first class would be demeaning in anyway if anything it shows he supports British Industry isn't that supposed to be part of his job?
  #171  
Old 09-24-2011, 05:22 AM
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The reason he is still doing these activities is two fold:

1. They were planned before he gave up the title.
2. His new role isn't vastly different to the old - only the title is gone.

When it was annouced that he was to give up the title the next bit in the Telegraph for instance Scandal-hit Prince Andrew 'to stand down as trade envoy' - Telegraph

was 'he will continue to travel the world in a less formal role to promote UK trade'

Name change - role still the same - travel the world to promote UK trade.

The Guardian used the following 'trade role to be downgraded' as opposed to the interpretation that the role ended. Prince Andrew's special trade role to be downgraded | UK news | The Guardian

I think that that is close to what actually happened - the title went but the role didn't - it is just to be a bit more low key - so fewer trips rather than less ostantatious when he goes.

The Duke's own website role
gives a breakdown of his role and includes: Ensuring our Businesses, and especially our SMEs, are aware of the opportunities that exist to develop their businesses internationally

Everything points to him continuing to work for British trade overseas - he has the contacts of course.
  #172  
Old 09-28-2011, 01:07 AM
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And he's up up and away again - this time not in a private plane.
Prince Andrew: After Saudi, now it's Singapore for Airmiles Andy | Mail Online
It's examples like this, where the taxpayers have to pay for him, but have no ability to vote him or whomever is agreeing to pay his way out of office that reminds me of why we had a revolution - something about taxation w/out representation as I recall - and tea, I'm pretty sure tea was somehow involved as well (meant to be a joke -btw.)
  #173  
Old 09-28-2011, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Yes - but unfortunately the ordinary British citizen doesn't understand that aspect of his role.
So the ordinary British citizen does not understand but the ordinary non-British participant on these boards do?
  #174  
Old 09-28-2011, 02:27 AM
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Originally Posted by grevinnan View Post
So the ordinary British citizen does not understand but the ordinary non-British participant on these boards do?

I wouldn't regard anyone on here as an 'ordinary' citizen when it comes to matter to do with the royal family.

We make it a matter of interest and study and thus have a greater understanding of how these things work and the roles they play than the average citizen of Britain or from anywhere else.

It would be no different to someone who has a different hobby - they would have a greater understanding and knowledge about their hobby to a person who has no interest in that hobby.
  #175  
Old 09-28-2011, 04:17 AM
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At least it wasn't a private plane. I think the problem seems to be that you can't tell what is achieved by these trips. I worked for a government department where the same sort of thing happened. Lot's of big money spent on travel etc and very little showed for it in the end. Andrew hasn't just been targeted for his massive spending but also for the way he behaves. He really shouldn't have too many of these jaunts left and if he thinks that he is just going to continue doing as he did before under a different name I think he will be in for a big shock. The press will continue to go after him and BP will seem like a joke. Why is the taxpayer paying for a trip for the British Trade people anyway? I thought BP paid for Royal Trips Andrew isn't representing the Queen or the RF officially this is business in which case the taxpayers shouldn't be paying for it. So I understand why the press are wondering if he is worth it.
  #176  
Old 09-28-2011, 05:34 AM
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The taxpayers are paying for it because he is representing the British government.
  #177  
Old 09-28-2011, 07:02 AM
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I am starting to think that Andrew is becoming more and more like his ex wife and loosing the "plot" slightly whilst engaging in extravagent spending. £40,000 of taxpayers money to travel Saudi Arabia. Utterly ridiculous to even allow this.
  #178  
Old 09-28-2011, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Daisiesforever View Post
I am starting to think that Andrew is becoming more and more like his ex wife and loosing the "plot" slightly whilst engaging in extravagent spending. £40,000 of taxpayers money to travel Saudi Arabia. Utterly ridiculous to even allow this.

As these expenses have to be approved by people other than Andrew the blame is not his alone here - and there was an explanation given - he had a commitment in England that prevented him catching the scheduled flight so he needed a private plane to get their on time.
  #179  
Old 09-28-2011, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
As these expenses have to be approved by people other than Andrew the blame is not his alone here - and there was an explanation given - he had a commitment in England that prevented him catching the scheduled flight so he needed a private plane to get their on time.
Point taken... but £40,000?
  #180  
Old 09-28-2011, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Daisiesforever View Post
Point taken... but £40,000?

For a private jet that isn't that much really.

The cost of the cheaper jets, taking up to 7 passengers, cost about $AUS 5000 PER HOUR of flight time. The flight is 6 hours meaning the cost would be about $AUS30,000 one way so $60,000 return and that is the cheapest I could find. Given the current exchange rate that is 38,000 pounds - which would say he took the cheapest private jet possible.

If there were more than 7 people on the flight then a dearer jet would have been needed - and we know there had to be at least 5 in the group - Andrew, two named staff and 2 bodyguards (working 8 hours on and 8 hours off - if only one 8 hour shift in each 24 then he would need 3 bodyguards).
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