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  #621  
Old 04-17-2011, 12:51 AM
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So in the day after the event Andrew goes to the place and makes a comment that some found offensive because he acknowledged the majority of those killed.

Then there is a memorial service at which no member of the royal family was present.

Five weeks later Charles goes and visits with the 11 families and somehow he is mopping up after his brother.

That might be some people's spin.

Others might argue he was mopping up for the callous attitude of his mother in not attending the memorial service or not sending any member of the family to attend but no he was mopping up for Andrew's comment the day after the disaster and at the disaster sight when people's emotions would still have been very raw and for all we know Andrew may have been in total shock at what he saw when he visited and said 'Americans' when he meant 'people'. Had he said' those poor people' no one would have taken offense but he said 'Americans' - who were the vast majority of the people on board and he is in the wrong of course.

prince charles - the 2nd Lockerbie disaster 1988
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  #622  
Old 04-17-2011, 10:21 AM
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The point is that many in Scotland were deeply offended by Andrew's remarks; I remember at the time a top politician (I think it was the PM) saying "This is a disaster; we need to get Charles up there NOW!" He went and calmed things down.
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  #623  
Old 04-17-2011, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
The point is that many in Scotland were deeply offended by Andrew's remarks; I remember at the time a top politician (I think it was the PM) saying "This is a disaster; we need to get Charles up there NOW!" He went and calmed things down.
Exactly, Mirabel. Charles isn't my cup of tea in his personal life, but his professionalism is dead-on in situations like this. Andrew did nothing to even attempt to clean up after himself on that one. Charles did the dirty work.

ETA: After I married my husband, I found out that his friends lost cousins on that flight, and had gone to Lockerbie the week after. The incredible friendship, warmth, and shared grief of the people of Lockerbie was and is notable. It really put Andrew's remarks in perspective for me. It's so tiresome to have people always try to re-interpret what he said or did to spin it as positively as possible. He screwed that up and didn't have the good grace to eat a slice of humble pie, nor attempt to make it right.
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  #624  
Old 04-17-2011, 12:22 PM
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I think iluvbertie's point is that perhaps Charles's attendance was more to do with cleaning Andrew's mess than doing PR on behalf of the entire BRF.So perhaps we should not be quick to assume without specific proof that Charles was there to clean up Andrew's mess. I didn't hear that come from his lips or any of the mouthpieces that usually speak on behalf of members of the BRF.

As mentioned in the article, no one from the royal family showed up to convey their condolences.

Yes, Andrew words weren't the smartest but there were a lot of errors to go around. Notice nowadays when a tragedy happens the BRF usually sends a representative, perhaps as a result of how they handled Lockerbie?
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  #625  
Old 04-30-2011, 12:22 PM
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I was watching this YouTube clip of William and Kate's wedding to listen to the processional piece again (I thought it was so beautiful). Near the end, when Kate reaches William at the altar, the camera shows Prince Andrew on the right hand side (I didn't see him at all when I watched the wedding on CBC).

Now, Andrew can sometimes look glum, but his expression here is unmistakably sad. Watching the video on full screen, the contrast just stood out to me. Harry, William, Kate, and Mr. Middleton are smiling at the altar - and every time Andrew glances over at the four of them, his mouth goes down. His eyes are sad and he can't even crack the slightest smile.

I have to think that this wedding was a painful experience for Andrew. He walked down the aisle of Westminster Abbey in his naval uniform and sword - and the last time he did that was almost 25 years ago on his own wedding day. If anyone thinks Andrew no longer regrets his own marriage break-up, I would just direct them to 30 seconds of this video (4:34 - 5:04)...and especially if you pause it at 4:45. I can't think of any reason for the look on his face except regret.

  #626  
Old 04-30-2011, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmay286 View Post
I was watching this YouTube clip of William and Kate's wedding to listen to the processional piece again (I thought it was so beautiful). Near the end, when Kate reaches William at the altar, the camera shows Prince Andrew on the right hand side (I didn't see him at all when I watched the wedding on CBC).

Now, Andrew can sometimes look glum, but his expression here is unmistakably sad. Watching the video on full screen, the contrast just stood out to me. Harry, William, Kate, and Mr. Middleton are smiling at the altar - and every time Andrew glances over at the four of them, his mouth goes down. His eyes are sad and he can't even crack the slightest smile.

I have to think that this wedding was a painful experience for Andrew. He walked down the aisle of Westminster Abbey in his naval uniform and sword - and the last time he did that was almost 25 years ago on his own wedding day. If anyone thinks Andrew no longer regrets his own marriage break-up, I would just direct them to 30 seconds of this video (4:34 - 5:04)...and especially if you pause it at 4:45. I can't think of any reason for the look on his face except regret.

Watching the wedding yesterday rmay I thought the very same thing.
The coverage shown on our national TV channel here in Ireland actually had the camera on Andrew quiet a bit, and from the moment he arrived he looked as miserable as hell. I suppose it's only natural his own wedding day crossed his mind, but I was still surprised he didn't manage a smile even once. On these type of occasions he is normally very jolly and smiley. I think if Sarah was there it might have been even more painful.
I thought yesterday was beautiful as well, and I was reading articles on various websites, and a few had body language experts giving their impressions of the balcony kiss. A lot of the comments posted said that it was a more loving and genuine kiss the Diana and Charles, but I was surprised (because of their unpopularity) the number of people who commented that Sarah and Andrew looked the happiest of the couples, and that theirs was most people favourite balcony moment.
Years on it was surprising that Andrew's sadness looked so raw yesterday.
  #627  
Old 04-30-2011, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Eyes View Post
Watching the wedding yesterday rmay I thought the very same thing.
The coverage shown on our national TV channel here in Ireland actually had the camera on Andrew quiet a bit, and from the moment he arrived he looked as miserable as hell. I suppose it's only natural his own wedding day crossed his mind, but I was still surprised he didn't manage a smile even once. On these type of occasions he is normally very jolly and smiley. I think if Sarah was there it might have been even more painful.
I thought yesterday was beautiful as well, and I was reading articles on various websites, and a few had body language experts giving their impressions of the balcony kiss. A lot of the comments posted said that it was a more loving and genuine kiss the Diana and Charles, but I was surprised (because of their unpopularity) the number of people who commented that Sarah and Andrew looked the happiest of the couples, and that theirs was most people favourite balcony moment.
Years on it was surprising that Andrew's sadness looked so raw yesterday.
It's interesting you mention that, because I had seen his expression during the service, as well as pictures of him outside the Abbey. He didn't seem to smile much outside. It's just like he just didn't want to be there at all.

You're right though, that Sarah and Prince Andrew looked happier than Charles and Diana--in a sense, they may have been a pretty good match for each other, except for the fact that he was a Royal and also active in the military, as well as lack of support from the Family for Sarah.

As others said before, it looks like the Family has learned from both Charles and Andrew--didn't the Queen laid down the rule about not marrying someone they haven't known for less than 5 years for all future Royal marriages?
  #628  
Old 04-30-2011, 06:18 PM
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They may be unpopular now but it doesn't change what people felt for them then. They were the breath of fresh air, had they had their heads on a little straighter you never know what could've happened.
  #629  
Old 04-30-2011, 07:53 PM
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I too thought that Andrew looked sad and I wondered if he was remembering the day that he had stood at that same altar and his gorgeous wife arrived to be by his side.
  #630  
Old 04-30-2011, 08:19 PM
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I had to think of Andrew today as I heard that his friend Saif, the son of Muammar Ghaddafy, was killed last night in a NATO strike.

I seriously think Andrew has a lot on his mind and doesn't shrug it off so easily. A lot of things weighing on his mind and most likely, as suggested, the memories of another wedding in the Abbey long ago reflected in his mood.
  #631  
Old 04-30-2011, 09:02 PM
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It was a different son that was killed - younger - also named Saif.

I think Andrew is having second son problems. I think he wants to be relevant. With al the controversy over the last few months, he is worried about his public role. William getting married just pushes him further into the margins.
  #632  
Old 04-30-2011, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by yvr girl View Post

I think Andrew is having second son problems. I think he wants to be relevant. With al the controversy over the last few months, he is worried about his public role. William getting married just pushes him further into the margins.
Good point.
Andrew is at the stage in life where you begin to take stock and determine if you are content with your life, or if you want to make some changes before it's too late.
The past year has been difficult for him; I wouldn't be surprised if he's trying to determine what to do next.
  #633  
Old 04-30-2011, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by yvr girl View Post

I think Andrew is having second son problems. I think he wants to be relevant. With al the controversy over the last few months, he is worried about his public role. William getting married just pushes him further into the margins.
Yes, after reflecting on it, I thought exactly the same thing. It was probably hard for Andrew to face the fact that William seems to have everything going for him - he's starting out in life, with a beautiful bride, a promising career, and personal popularity. These are three things Andrew also had when he was young, but doesn't now. I agree that Andrew has "second son syndrome." Even after William and Harry bumped Andrew down the line of succession, he could still feel like the "second son" in many ways because William and Harry didn't perform public duties. Now, it's like William is being launched into public life and Andrew is slowly fading into the background.

I read in the Daily Mail a few weeks ago that Andrew's trade ambassador role may be quietly changed - he won't be affiliated with UKTI anymore, and won't be sent overseas either but will only promote business in Britain or Europe. I don't know how true this is - but if it is true, you can see how Andrew could be having a mid-life crisis, thinking, "What have I made of my life - is there anywhere I'm really needed?" Even his girls are grown up. Put all these things together, and it's easy to see why Andrew was off in his own thoughts during the wedding.

It's definitely sad to watch videos of Andrew's own wedding and how overjoyed he looked then - and then watch how unhappy he looked at William's wedding. I think it must be hard having Sarah in his life, but not having her, at the same time. The worst part, probably, is knowing she still loves him, but he can't invite her back into his royal life. That is probably part of the reason he pays off her debts and lets her live with him - he's compensating for what he can't do. But it isn't really enough, and while it works for them in the short-term, I don't think either Andrew or Sarah are really happy with their situation. They just know they can't do anything about it.
  #634  
Old 04-30-2011, 11:46 PM
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Not to mention that after all the "work" Andrew feels he's done for promoting his family's interests, he may have to see his daughters lose their role and their titles due to his indiscretions. There are the rumors that Beatrice will be encouraged to pursue a career instead of becoming a working member of the royal family once she graduates.
  #635  
Old 04-30-2011, 11:52 PM
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Not to mention that after all the "work" Andrew feels he's done for promoting his family's interests, he may have to see his daughters lose their role and their titles due to his indiscretions. There are the rumors that Beatrice will be encouraged to pursue a career instead of becoming a working member of the royal family once she graduates.

I think she should pursue a career - but the rumoured interest is 'fashion' and frankly her fashion sense is in her rear end.

The other problem is what career can she do where she won't be accused of cashing in on her royal connections?

The York girls are really in no win situations - whatever career they chose they will be criticised as using royal connections, (even getting a job that accusation will be made), if they were to take on royal duties they will always be compared unfavourably to Kate, like their mother was compared unfavourably to Diana.

I think that for their sanity and self-esteem they need to leave Britain and get jobs that come with their degrees but using names other than their royal titles and simply fade into the background to be trotted out at Trooping the Colour every decade or so.

An alternative would be military careers - which are now options for women but weren't in earlier generations.

We should get more of an idea within the next couple of months as Beatrice should be finishing uni next month.
  #636  
Old 05-01-2011, 02:11 AM
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I don't think he looks sad. He's serious but so are the other people around him. Alot of royal relatives that were shown in various news clips either entering or leaving the Abbey had serious, almost somber, expressions. I tend to think people are reading too much into the whole divorce thing. I'm sure his own wedding did cross his mind, but I don't think it ruined the day, or the William's wedding, for him.
  #637  
Old 05-01-2011, 06:38 AM
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perhaps Andrew was sad because of his daughters' clothing/hat choices
  #638  
Old 05-01-2011, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I think she should pursue a career - but the rumoured interest is 'fashion' and frankly her fashion sense is in her rear end.

No, I don't think too many people would willingly follow Beatrice's lead.

Quote:
The other problem is what career can she do where she won't be accused of cashing in on her royal connections?
I don't think there's one; even if she were to work for a non-profit or something like that, it will be said she got the job over more qualified people! And, heaven help her if she ends up working three days a week, or something like that!

Still, I don't see why she has to leave Britain. If she gets a job and takes it seriously, I think much criticism will die down. (But she can't just play at it).
  #639  
Old 05-02-2011, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by rmay286 View Post
Yes, after reflecting on it, I thought exactly the same thing. It was probably hard for Andrew to face the fact that William seems to have everything going for him - he's starting out in life, with a beautiful bride, a promising career, and personal popularity. These are three things Andrew also had when he was young, but doesn't now. I agree that Andrew has "second son syndrome." Even after William and Harry bumped Andrew down the line of succession, he could still feel like the "second son" in many ways because William and Harry didn't perform public duties. Now, it's like William is being launched into public life and Andrew is slowly fading into the background.

I read in the Daily Mail a few weeks ago that Andrew's trade ambassador role may be quietly changed - he won't be affiliated with UKTI anymore, and won't be sent overseas either but will only promote business in Britain or Europe. I don't know how true this is - but if it is true, you can see how Andrew could be having a mid-life crisis, thinking, "What have I made of my life - is there anywhere I'm really needed?" Even his girls are grown up. Put all these things together, and it's easy to see why Andrew was off in his own thoughts during the wedding.
I agree with your assessment and wish to add that Prince Andrew is VERY Much in control of his own life and can change it to be more fulfilling at any time. If he's sad, or having a mid-life crisis (he is 50 after all!) he bloody well can change things.
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  #640  
Old 05-02-2011, 07:34 PM
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If he's sad, or having a mid-life crisis (he is 50 after all!) he bloody well can change things.
This is a great quote!
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