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  #501  
Old 11-29-2010, 06:42 AM
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All the MailOnline article states is:

"Sensational claims of ‘inappropriate behaviour’ by Prince Andrew emerged last night in the biggest intelligence leak in history.
Secret U.S. embassy cables are said to show the prince, who is a UK trade envoy, has shocked the Americans with his ‘rude behaviour abroad’.
He was accused of making 'inappropriate remarks' about a foreign country and a law enforcement agency."


There is no detail and nothing further. Note that the cables are "said to show" which means they haven't (yet) been seen.

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  #502  
Old 11-29-2010, 02:07 PM
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WikiLeaks cables: 'Rude' Prince Andrew shocks US ambassador | UK news | guardian.co.uk

Well, now they have been seen.

I believe Andrew said these things. Like I said a few posts back, I've been noticing that his public comments have been getting more and more opinionated/critical of people in leadership. I believe he can be rude at times (something he has inherited from his father)? Andrew also sometimes comes across as arrogant.
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  #503  
Old 11-29-2010, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren View Post
All the MailOnline article states is:

"Sensational claims of ‘inappropriate behaviour’ by Prince Andrew emerged last night in the biggest intelligence leak in history.
Secret U.S. embassy cables are said to show the prince, who is a UK trade envoy, has shocked the Americans with his ‘rude behaviour abroad’.
He was accused of making 'inappropriate remarks' about a foreign country and a law enforcement agency."

There is no detail and nothing further. Note that the cables are "said to show" which means they haven't (yet) been seen.
Total bogus nonsense,you're right Warren.Nowhere is the very name of the Duke of York mentioned.Sensation hyped bull,really,and if he did make unapropiate remarks on a foreign country and a law enforcement agency,I say if,then he might have been bloody right to do so.

What I read in the Wikileaks article of the New York Times about these gossiping & spying schizofrenic paranoia old bats of US diplomats is way way worse I would say.The bloody arrogance!You rock Andy,don't let anyone stop you from being you!
  #504  
Old 11-29-2010, 02:18 PM
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What these 'sensational' claims amount to is that someone representing a foreign government found Andrew to be a tad xenophobic and 'rude'.

The Ambassador said: "He reacted with almost neuralgic patriotism whenever any comparison between the US and UK came up." With all due respect to Madam Ambassador and her country, why wouldn't he? It's his job to believe in and promote UK interests above all others.

Did he compromise national security? Did he endanger lives? If the answers are 'no',then these criticisms amount to little more than tittle tattle and chagrin. Perhaps Andrew isn't blessed with the world's best diplomatic skills, but that's hardly 'sensational' and it's certainly not new.

As for the Ambassador and her words '...neuralgic patriotism...' what on earth does she mean?
  #505  
Old 11-29-2010, 05:45 PM
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The United States isn't the only country who has sent telegrams or messages which were critical of an ally or critical of governments, political leaders or critical of how a particular society lives. I imagine telegrams have been sent by other countries blasting the United States, blasting the American President or blasting American foreign policy. I imagine the response in the United States would be the same as the other countries have reacted if their telegrams or private messages have been released. All countries do this (blast each other). It's interesting though that only American telegrams and messages were released. If this person was able to get into American computer systems, then they could get into any system.

These telegrams should have never been released. These were private messages which were not intended for public viewing as evidenced by what was said. I hope that whoever did this is charged with treason under American law and given a long lengthy prison sentence.
  #506  
Old 11-29-2010, 06:06 PM
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Ah well, in this case all it did was show up the author's thin skin and equally rude assessments. What did she expect him to do? Jump up and wave an American flag instead of swatting her (figuratively) with the Union Jack!

Withall due respect to Madam Ambassador and her country, if that is the worst she could come up with I wonder it was worth the cable.
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  #507  
Old 11-29-2010, 06:11 PM
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People have to be able to say what they believe and think in private meetings, and those meetings and correspondence have to remain confidential. Otherwise, truth would never be spoken between high-level people.
  #508  
Old 11-29-2010, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polly View Post
What these 'sensational' claims amount to is that someone representing a foreign government found Andrew to be a tad xenophobic and 'rude'.

The Ambassador said: "He reacted with almost neuralgic patriotism whenever any comparison between the US and UK came up." With all due respect to Madam Ambassador and her country, why wouldn't he? It's his job to believe in and promote UK interests above all others.

Did he compromise national security? Did he endanger lives? If the answers are 'no',then these criticisms amount to little more than tittle tattle and chagrin. Perhaps Andrew isn't blessed with the world's best diplomatic skills, but that's hardly 'sensational' and it's certainly not new.

As for the Ambassador and her words '...neuralgic patriotism...' what on earth does she mean?
Actually the exact wording is:

Unfortunately for the assembled British subjects, their cherished Prince was now late to the Prime Minister’s. He regretfully tore himself away from them and they from him. On the way out, one of them confided to the Ambassador: “What a wonderful representative for the British people! We could not be prouder of our royal family!and

COMMENT: Prince Andrew reached out to the Ambassador with cordiality and respect, evidently valuing her insights. However, he reacted with almost neuralgic patriotism whenever any comparison between the United States and United Kingdom came up. For example, one British businessman noted that despite the “overwhelming might of the American economy compared to ours” the amount of American and British investment in Kyrgyzstan was similar. Snapped the Duke: “No surprise there. The Americans don’t understand geography. Never have. In the U.K., we have the best geography teachers in the world!” END COMMENT.

---
You find it in the cable dated 2008 10 29 from the Embassy Bishkek.

Not sure if it is allowed to include the link in here (if not, moderators please delete it):
Cable Viewer

Personally I dislike the way the Prince is called "cherished Prince"
  #509  
Old 11-29-2010, 07:00 PM
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I can tell by the blogs that people have different opinions about it. Two people could have attended the same event and have entirely different opinions about it. The cable was her opinion or observation of what took place. Since I wasn't there and didn't hear Prince Andrew speak, I don't know what he said or didn't say.

Still this information should have never be made public. It wasn't intended for public viewing. If it was, the response would be different.
  #510  
Old 11-29-2010, 09:58 PM
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The Ambassador was at a private function to which she was invited by her British counterpart. What she reported in her cable was mere gossip: in fact, a lot of diplomacy is just that - gossip.

I am not Andrew's greatest fan, but he has done well by British trade in that part of the world, irrespective of problems inherent in doing business in that region, and there appear to be very many. At worst, from what I've read, Andrew was indiscreet, but assumed that he was amongst friends. If I were Andrew, I'd take offence, rather, at Madam Ambassador's calling him their 'cherished prince' with it's disdainful overtones. He certainly attracts a lot of attention, but 'cherished', he ain't. He's employed to do a job of work for the UK, not to apologise for other European business practices nor to support American corporations. In the cut-throat world of international business his remarks are perfectly understandable and even permissible, to my mind.

Starting with Madam Ambassador and extrapolating to the press, generally, I think that this attack on Andrew for behaving and speaking as business promoters everywhere do, is a bloody cheek! Pots and kettles come to mind.
  #511  
Old 11-29-2010, 11:01 PM
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Exposed: Prince Andrew's four-letter tirade that shocked American ambassador | Mail Online
  #512  
Old 11-30-2010, 12:50 AM
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I've read these reports in other, respectable newspapers, and not once was it intimated that the Ambassador was 'shocked'.

This is merely typical Daily Mail headline nonsense, as is its seeking a comment from republican members of the community, who, predictably, prophesy that the end is nigh for Prince Andrew.
  #513  
Old 11-30-2010, 04:02 AM
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The fact that Wikileaks released a document or two with discussion about the Duke of York does not make all discussion of Wikileaks relevant to this thread. US criminal sentencing guidelines and Hillary Clinton are among the topics that can safely be deemed off-topic here.

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  #514  
Old 11-30-2010, 04:06 AM
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Here's the Telegraph - a usually pro-establishment newspaper:

Wikileaks: Best quotes from Duke of York's Kyrgyzstan breakfast with US ambassador - Telegraph

This story is - or will be - another nine-day wonder. It'll run and run until it dies...
  #515  
Old 11-30-2010, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
People have to be able to say what they believe and think in private meetings, and those meetings and correspondence have to remain confidential. Otherwise, truth would never be spoken between high-level people.
In theory, I agree, but as more information becomes digital, it's more likely that we'll see more such "leaks." I read in another article that "it would have been impossible to steal so many papers" (if the memos had all been on paper). But it's much easier to "steal" digital information, because all the information has been consolidated in one database.

Since the 1990s, there has been a movement towards "e-government" (electronic government) which includes more standardization and centralization in a single database, and more information sharing across departments. This is supposed to improve efficiency, but it will also make governments more vulnerable to hackers.

Leaders, business people, and Prince Andrew should no longer assume that anything they say "in private" will stay private.
  #516  
Old 11-30-2010, 12:43 PM
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I think the term "in private" will have to be redefined so that politicians, governments and others can be sure of its meaning.
  #517  
Old 11-30-2010, 03:43 PM
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Not helpful: Business Secretary Vince Cable condemns Prince Andrew's WikiLeaks comments | Mail Online
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  #518  
Old 11-30-2010, 11:09 PM
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Why does Prince Andrew keep putting his Gucci-clad foot in his very large mouth? | Mail Online

Yet another article (I'm sure the Daily Mail will milk this story for all it's worth...)
  #519  
Old 12-01-2010, 01:12 AM
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Well the sniping about who pays for the wedding got them nowhere and noone has the inside scoop about who's designing the wedding dress, is Fergie invited and where the honeymoon is so, they'll just have to roast Prince Andrew until someone coughs!
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  #520  
Old 12-01-2010, 05:16 AM
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I agree Marg, but I really don´t believe that Prince Andrew is a good representative for British Trade, especially as he has allegedly said his only qualifications are "genetical".
There must be more competent people about. The idea is good, a son of the Sovereign, and HRH sounds impressive, but that seems to be about it, nothing more. He would be perfect if he just limited himself to being charming but as I have heard more than once, he is, despite his lovely smile, not at all charming.
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