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  #61  
Old 01-06-2007, 03:32 PM
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Crawford chose to be photographed to further her career one would imagine, the photographers were a lot more respectful than they are now. Being an actress, she obviously craved the publicity, hence her silly poses for the camera.
And what is Kate doing? Is courting the future King not just furthering your own career just a little bit? Joan never did "silly poses", she smiled. She put across an image. And God knows that Kate needs an image. She may not crave the publicity like Joan did but she's got it. So now she needs to grow up and deal with it.

Quote:
But it was reported that she is shouted at.
Oh boo hoo. I'm sure being waited on hand and foot on tax-payer's money will quickly get rid of any inconvenience to her busy lifestyle. They may shout her name to get her attention but does it matter? If she can't cope with the odd eff word shouted at her then she really isn't going to be able cope as Queen Consort is she?

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If she becomes P'ss of W she will be shielded and protected from these stalkers.
She's got police protection. And who'd want to stalk her anyway? The press aren't stalkers. They're doing a job. Come on, it's the way the world works and she knows that. She smiles, they photograph and publish and gullible morons who are easily impressed with dull d-listers buy the pics. Thats how it works. Money money money, the world turns for another day. Thats the life she volunteered for when she got involved with Wills.
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  #62  
Old 01-06-2007, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
A
Oh boo hoo. I'm sure being waited on hand and foot on tax-payer's money will quickly get rid of any inconvenience to her busy lifestyle. They may shout her name to get her attention but does it matter? If she can't cope with the odd eff word shouted at her then she really isn't going to be able cope as Queen Consort is she?
Maybe we should wait till we see TV coverage of exactly what Catherine experiences at the moment. Then take a look, sit back and think about ourselves or our loved ones in a situation like this. Hope this helps keeping things in perspective.
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  #63  
Old 01-06-2007, 03:36 PM
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I've been with people who have been papped. I've been papped with them. When one of my friends was in legal trouble, journos stole her mobile and rang us all from her address book asking for gossip. You just put the phone down and accept that that's what life is for someone who lives in the public eye. If you live by the media, you deal with it. And she volunteered for all this when she got involved with it and if she honestly didn't expect it then she's very naive.
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  #64  
Old 01-06-2007, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
I've been with people who have been papped. I've been papped with them. When one of my friends was in legal trouble, journos stole her mobile and rang us all from her address book asking for gossip. You just put the phone down and accept that that's what life is for someone who lives in the public eye. If you live by the media, you deal with it. And she volunteered for all this when she got involved with it and if she honestly didn't expect it then she's very naive.
You are just saying this over and over again. Yes, sure, that's how this game is being played but does that make it right? Okay, she will surely survive one way or the other but it doesn't make it right. No money, no status, nothing can pay for something like that, IMHO.
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'To dare is to lose one step for but a moment, not to dare is to lose oneself forever' - Crown Prince Frederick of Denmark in a letter to Miss Mary Donaldson as stated by them on their official engagement interview.
  #65  
Old 01-06-2007, 03:41 PM
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Who are we to say whether it's right or not? What's it got to do with us anyway? She's a private citizen isn't she?
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  #66  
Old 01-06-2007, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Who are we to say whether it's right or not? What's it got to do with us anyway? She's a private citizen isn't she?
And I'm a professional journalist and lawyer with not only knowledge of the law but a conscience. For me, it's not right.
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'To dare is to lose one step for but a moment, not to dare is to lose oneself forever' - Crown Prince Frederick of Denmark in a letter to Miss Mary Donaldson as stated by them on their official engagement interview.
  #67  
Old 01-06-2007, 03:47 PM
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You misunderstand me. You say it's wrong for the photographers to pap her because she's a private citizen. Well, surely it's wrong to have this thread talking about her then? Because she's a private citizen? IMO, she isn't a private citizen. She ceased to be such when she began dating him. And if you think taking a few snaps of a surly d-lister is abusing matters of conscience then I suggest you watch "Mommie Dearest". At least Kate isn't being whacked with wire hangers. (Yet....).
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  #68  
Old 01-06-2007, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
You misunderstand me. You say it's wrong for the photographers to pap her because she's a private citizen. Well, surely it's wrong to have this thread talking about her then? Because she's a private citizen? IMO, she isn't a private citizen. She ceased to be such when she began dating him. And if you think taking a few snaps of a surly d-lister is abusing matters of conscience then I suggest you watch "Mommie Dearest". At least Kate isn't being whacked with wire hangers. (Yet....).
Well, she can ignore htis thread. Can she ignore the photographers withour resigning to a life she probably doesn't want yet (like living in a palace?)

If you want to understand my position I recommend reading the book The lost honour of Katherina Blum by German noble prize winner Heinrich Böll. It tells a lot about tabloids and their methods in destroying people's lifes.
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'To dare is to lose one step for but a moment, not to dare is to lose oneself forever' - Crown Prince Frederick of Denmark in a letter to Miss Mary Donaldson as stated by them on their official engagement interview.
  #69  
Old 01-06-2007, 03:51 PM
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Of course she can. Just don't look at them and go about her business. They're not cutting off her legs, they're taking pictures. If she doesn't want a life living in a palace then don't date a guy who's got to live in a Palace. Duh.
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  #70  
Old 01-06-2007, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Look - let's all stop feeling sorry for Kate shall we? When you date a Prince, you get photographed and that is the way the world works. It may not be right, it may not be fair but life isn't fair. People with more talent and more fame than Kate Middleton have lived their lives in the media glare and coped, now it's her turn. She can't be a Princess-in-waiting and a private citizen and if she can't hack that then she better find someone else to marry. End of.
Yea that's pretty much my opinion of the situation. We don't live in an ideal world where people can have their cake and eat it too. She's not going to get Prince William without the paps, private citizen or not. Period. She's either got to dig in and toughen up or dig out and get her obscurity back.
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  #71  
Old 01-06-2007, 05:22 PM
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I don't think it's particularly fair to compare what's going on these days with what went on with Lady Diana. During her tenure as Princess of Wales and after her divorce, the intrusiveness of the press increased massively, and since her death they've been deprived of a major source of income. If we've got to the stage where they'll do just about anything to get a photo that can be sold for a large amount of money, then Kate does need some protection. All we need at this stage is for them to be racing around London on their motorbikes trying to take photos of her while she's driving to work, and there could be some real trouble.
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  #72  
Old 01-06-2007, 05:26 PM
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But when have they showed any signs of "doing just about anything" as far as Kate's concerned? They've stood across the road and papped her. At the moment, they're behaving and they aren't breaking the law. The only issue is Kate's fans (not even Kate herself) are saying she's being treated badly. Well, she's not really is she? I agree - if they start motorbiking it after her then yes, she needs protecting but at the moment, what are they doing that she needs to be protected against? I just don't get it. And I mean, fine, give her a couple of police officers to protect her against stalkers or whatever but be honest with us. Tell us that she's got them, she needs them and and tell us if we're paying for them. That's only fair IMO.
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  #73  
Old 01-06-2007, 06:28 PM
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This thread today is interesting. Firstly, I'm watching the English language evolve. We have a new verb: to pap, backformed (I think that's the expression) from the noun paparazzi which itself is a relatively new introduction from Italian. I like it. 'She was papped'. Yep. It's very useful.

As for what the photographers are doing to Kate, I think their behaviour is deplorable. Having to start each day knowing you are going to be pestered by a swarm of photographers would wear me down very quickly. I believe people are entitled to privacy in their private lives, no matter who they are. No-one should have to put up with the antics Kate is now being subjected to. They are only trying to get sensational pics. They don't want nice, smiling pics, but pics of her tripping over or swearing at them (which I would have done long ago, but perhaps that's one reason I'm not married to a prince ).

The price being paid for the pics obviously provides an irresistable temptation to the photographers so the fault probably lies with the management people who make those decisions. I don't suppose limits can be imposed on the fee, but I'm sure the behaviour of the photographers can be regulated by making it an offence to harass people they way they do and interfere with passage through fire exits and interfere with access to businesses and create dangers on the roadway, etc. Maybe there could be rules about the number of them who can gather in a public place at any one time.

IMO they are not just "doing a job", the way they behave they are a damned nuisance, and a dangerous one at that.
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  #74  
Old 01-06-2007, 07:14 PM
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here's a few things beatrixfan has overlooked:

it's naive to think the paparazzi would be satisfied with a smile and a wave.

comparing this thread with the way the paparazzi are harassing her is also naive. is anyone involved in the discussion making any money from it?

how can you possibly think that she's not a private citizen just because she's dating the prince?

how joan crawford acted in front of photographers was all very carefully controlled. the photographs all had to do with publicity that would make both her and the movie moguls lots of money. you can't even compare it to the situation with catherine - it's apples and oranges.
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  #75  
Old 01-06-2007, 07:40 PM
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It's not naive to think they'd be satisfied with a smile and wave at all. What makes anyone think they want to see Kate from all angles anyway? They just want a wave and a smile. I know they do because that's what friends of mine give them and the paps leave them alone.

You say that Joan Crawford's photographs were carefully controlled. Well, isn't Kate's media image being carefully controlled, including her photographs? It's not apples and oranges, it's identical. Kate's being marketed just like Joan was so that she'll get publicity that will make people alot of money. Or don't we pay taxes anymore?
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  #76  
Old 01-06-2007, 07:49 PM
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But up until the police officers became involved, No one's taxes had anything to do with Catherine. She is a private citizen who is not funded in any way by taxes. The police officers were dispatched to protect Catherine by their superiors, not by Catherine herself or her family.
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  #77  
Old 01-06-2007, 07:52 PM
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Yes and up until the police officers, I didn't have the right to criticise. But now they are involved and they costing money and I am paying for her protection so now I do have the right to criticise. Now people's taxes are involved and that puts her in a very different position.
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  #78  
Old 01-06-2007, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
It's not naive to think they'd be satisfied with a smile and wave at all. What makes anyone think they want to see Kate from all angles anyway? They just want a wave and a smile. I know they do because that's what friends of mine give them and the paps leave them alone.

You say that Joan Crawford's photographs were carefully controlled. Well, isn't Kate's media image being carefully controlled, including her photographs? It's not apples and oranges, it's identical. Kate's being marketed just like Joan was so that she'll get publicity that will make people alot of money. Or don't we pay taxes anymore?
they won't be satisfied with a wave and smile. she's smiled for them and have they left her alone? if it was that easy then all the celebrities would do it. no, they want more than that and if you don't know that then you've had your head in the sand all these years. if a smile and a wave from you and your friends is satisfying the paparazzi then i'd say that a photo of you isn't nearly as interesting to the public or fetching the same price as one of catherine.

as far as image being controlled...well they really aren't anymore. we see celebrities and public figures in all sorts of settings now. in joan crawford's day you didn't see them unless the studio wanted you to see them and they were where the studio wanted them to be, with the people the studio wanted them to be with, wearing the clothes the studio wanted them wearing and saying what the studio wanted them to say. oh yes...it's apples and oranges alright.
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  #79  
Old 01-06-2007, 07:57 PM
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I agree with BeatrixFan for once. Yes Kate is a private citizen and she deserves her pivacy, but what did she expect. Shes not dating just an ordinary man, she is dating Prince William of Wales heir to the British throne. Kate was pictured with him and at the same events with him. She was well aware of what she was getting herself into. But I do agree that Kate should have some protection just incase if the phtographers get out of hand.
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  #80  
Old 01-06-2007, 08:22 PM
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Trust me Duchess - Kate's image is being controlled. She couldn't carry on like Chelsy Davy does even if she wanted to. For as long as she remains a possible Royal wife, she's subject to being told what to do, say and even wear by Buckingham Palace. You don't think the Queen would risk having Kate say something silly or give us a flash of leg do you? It's exactly like the studio system and what's more, like the studio system, it stays with them. Joan Crawford left MGM and went to Warners. Then she was studio-less. But her training was there. She knew how to smile for the cameras, what to say and when to say it. Well, Kate will no doubt be told the same things and she'll never be expected to forget it because if Kate leaves her studio, she's got to eek out a living a la Fergie.

Kate hasn't always smiled for the press. When she's at her sulkiest, she looks truly miserable. Well, that makes journos all the more determined. We're not asking for her to drop her drawers and sing "Edelweiss", it's just a little smile and a wave. If she does it once a day, she'll get the press off her back and get a reputation for being quite approachable. Instead, we get this, "Oh no! Photographers! Woe is me!" and it's so boring. It gives her the image of a spoilt brat who thinks the world owes her publicity but she doesn't have to do anything to earn it. If every photo is of Kate smiling, they become samey, they lose their value on the market and she'll notice the press drop off in number. By trying to play hard to get, she's starting a very dangerous game.
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