General News for Prince Harry, Part 1: December 2016 - November 2017


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Status
Not open for further replies.
If I remember right, it was. Harry, though, I think was more inclined to be involved with being part of active service than the urge to rise up among the ranks.

No matter what, no one can say that he shirked his duty to crown and country. He's just found better ways to do it now through his royal roles.

Its all good.
 
Prince Andrew served 20 years in the royal navy. From the Falklands War to the Ministry of Defence.

Harry knew when he signed up he wouldn't be in Afghanistan forever. Units and soldiers get rotated all the time.

I think he got bored and decided to leave to army but it was his choice. He could still be serving in some capacity if he wanted.

I agree. The press had nothing to do with Harry leaving the Army or even leaving Afghanistan in the case of his second tour of duty. Other family members served longer in the Armed Forces, e.g. the Duke of York and the Duke of Kent.
 
Last edited:
Wasn't it that to get the next natural promotion, Harry had to do a stint comprised mainly of desk work as opposed to actual combat? And that was why he chose to leave when he did.

That's what I remember. And Harry may not have been suited to a desk job. Not everyone is and better that he realized it and left the military than remain and not enjoy or be effective in the position. Remaining because it was just expected or there was nothing else to do (in the military) would seem to be a poor choice all around.
 
I agree. The press had nothing to do with Harry leaving the Army or even leaving Afghanistan in the case of his second tour of duty. Other family members serced longer in the Armed Forces, e.g. the Duke of York and the Duke of Kent.

And that was a different time, no instant news for one thing--and so what. Why should Harry stay in the military just because his uncle and grandmother's cousin did? That is a stupid reason.
 
That's what I remember. And Harry may not have been suited to a desk job. Not everyone is and better that he realized it and left the military than remain and not enjoy or be effective in the position. Remaining because it was just expected or there was nothing else to do (in the military) would seem to be a poor choice all around.

I am not a military person, but I suppose that, if one wants to pursue a long-term career as an officer, a desk job is something that will inevitably come up at some point, isn't it ? More informed posters may comment further .
 
So on this subject I actually wanted to take some time before responding.

This interview has clearly been "dropped" and hasn't come as the full picture. It's not like it's come out of a documentary/interview in a magazine so we could get the full context.

My biggest issue is that Henry is speaking on a subject that he does not have to deal with himself. He will never be King. Therefore don't badmouth something that your father and brother have worked all their lives/working for to do. Everyone knows that being a monarch especially is bloomin hard, we know we couldn't cope with it and that it is a massive weight on someones shoulder. But he cannot tell people that from his position. He sounds like a whinging child.

This has come as a massive surprise for me, because Henry has always appeared laid back in the way he approaches things but the way to approach a subject like this isn't to blurt out. We know Henry had/has massive issues with the press, and if this is an attempt to tell them they struggle it's backfired.

In their situation it's easier to embrace it, and try and make it your own which I think William and Catherine have been doing.

It is such a shame that he decided to speak on this subject.
 
The more I think about it, as much as I do admire Harry's openness and candor recently, I can very much see where this one statement about being King is a good example of "open mouth, insert foot". He may not have intended the statement to garner the reactions that it did but sometimes when one doesn't choose their words properly and with a lot of thought, they just come out so very wrong.

Of course we're never going to hear about his family's reaction to his words but I can't imagine them being overly happy at the way a statement could insinuate that they could even resent their roles but plug on because that is their "duty".

Charles has defined his role as Prince of Wales excellently and I see no reason to believe that won't continue when he is king. William (and Kate) are very much following in the example the whole family sets and draws the line between public duties and private lives and thoughts.

Sometimes in order to get things right though, one has to make a mistake in order to learn from it.
 
Video - CTV's Royal Commentator Richard Berthelsen says Prince Harry may have gone too far in some of his remarks made during a recent interview:
CTV News Channel: 'An awkward situation' | CTV News

Richard Berthelsen is a very serious royal commentator and I agree with what he says (something I rarely do when it comes to the so-called royal commentators).
 
Many non UK posters on here only have limited access to the entire range of UK media.

I read nearly all (don't do Daily Mail) and this interview has not helped Harry or the BRF with journos or the public. The vast majority think that he has a life of privilege and it comes at a cost. If he doesn't want to pay it, then leave.

This is the "man in the street" response. Not royal followers or Harry fans which are found on sites like this.

So in the UK this is a PR disaster.
 
Video - CTV's Royal Commentator Richard Berthelsen says Prince Harry may have gone too far in some of his remarks made during a recent interview:
CTV News Channel: 'An awkward situation' | CTV News

Richard Berthelsen is a very serious royal commentator and I agree with what he says (something I rarely do when it comes to the so-called royal commentators).

The thing is Harry didn't go too far. His words were misinterpreted, but everyone already knows that the family don't have any ambition to get the Top Job. It's pure duty and service that the royal family work under. No member of the family really publicly talks about the possibility of becoming monarch. Not even Charles talks about it. If so, he's uncomfortable talking about it.

What really gets me is that many of these veteran royal reporters and correspondents know what Harry is talking about. They wanted a little excitement in their royal reporting and twisted Harry's words into the idea of he's saying that no one wants the future role of monarch. They made it seem like he's whining about his position. He knows it's a unique privilege and he's and other members of the family use it to do some good for others and the kingdom.

Many non UK posters on here only have limited access to the entire range of UK media.

I read nearly all (don't do Daily Mail) and this interview has not helped Harry or the BRF with journos or the public. The vast majority think that he has a life of privilege and it comes at a cost. If he doesn't want to pay it, then leave.

This is the "man in the street" response. Not royal followers or Harry fans which are found on sites like this.

So in the UK this is a PR disaster.

I don't think the royal family is getting their knickers in a twist over it though.
 
....... His words were misinterpreted, but everyone already knows that the family don't have any ambition to get the Top Job. It's pure duty and service that the royal family work under. No member of the family really publicly talks about the possibility of becoming monarch. Not even Charles talks about it. If so, he's uncomfortable talking about it.

What really gets me is that many of these veteran royal reporters and correspondents know what Harry is talking about. They wanted a little excitement in their royal reporting and twisted Harry's words into the idea of he's saying that no one wants the future role of monarch. They made it seem like he's whining about his position. He knows it's a unique privilege and he's and other members of the family use it to do some good for others and the kingdom.

this has been my thought on this 'out of context' soundbite - when Harry said no one in the family wants the job - I believe he was referring to aspiration, ambition and desire. The entire family has been raised with a sense of duty and responsibility.

The reporters (and their editors) were looking for click bait - if Harry had said the family wants the job then the headlines would have been "Coup at the Palace: Harry wants the Throne" or "William to fight Charles for the Crown". I think the more polished reply would have been that the family wants to serve. but that isnt nearly as interesting. He will learn - these are the types of missteps that happen when you speak to the press directly. No wonder HM doesnt give interviews :bang:

of whom much is given, much is expected

 
I agree he shouldn't be talking about something that will never happen for him. Harry isn't going to be king.

What's happening now is some papers like the DM are taking a pop at the entire royal family (not the Queen)

It wasn't a good thing for Harry to say and I agree with Cepe, it's a PR disaster.

Max Hastings: Prince Harry should stop whinging | Daily Mail Online

What I want to know what's so wrong in Harry saying that he and the family don't for for positions, but are dedicated to service and duty? It's the media that got it wrong, not him.
 
What I want to know what's so wrong in Harry saying that he and the family don't for for positions, but are dedicated to service and duty? It's the media that got it wrong, not him.

He is speaking for others rather than just himself may be the issue. :cool: Plus everyone will naturally flash on Diana's statements in the Panorama interview where she made a similar mention regarding Charles not wanting the 'top job'. Very eerie similarity.
 
He is speaking for others rather than just himself may be the issue. :cool: Plus everyone will naturally flash on Diana's statements in the Panorama interview where she made a similar mention regarding Charles not wanting the 'top job'. Very eerie similarity.

Harry is right though. No one in the family is ambitious for the top jobs. They are dedicated to service and duty, not position. It's the media that took it the wrong. Harry didn't make an error. The media did and some folks online.

People flew off the handle without understanding what Harry was saying. The media headline is what caused the noise.

Now, Harry could've worded his statement differently, but he said nothing wrong. The anger should directed at the media on getting his words wrong. Not Prince Harry.

Diana was speaking on the terms of her broken marriage. Not that Charles wasn't capable of being king, btw.
 
Last edited:
What I want to know what's so wrong in Harry saying that he and the family don't for for positions, but are dedicated to service and duty? It's the media that got it wrong, not him.

Exactly. IMO, if PH had given the interview directly to the DailyFail, they would've written a different headline like 'PH Duty & Service First' The Fail didn't get the scoop so they ran with one misinterpreted phrase from a very long interview.

In previous times, third party 'insiders' have made assumptions about what they think PH and other members of the RF feel. PH gives his opinion and now there are complaints that he gets to live in a palace so stick with the script, as the anonymous 'insider' stories sound more palatable.

I saw 'journalist/royal biographer' Penny Junor on tv last night saying PH didn't have to walk behind his mother's coffin, he was given a choice. Was she present when the discussions took place? Did someone who knows someone, who knows someone else give her that info? Did she just guess? Finally PH gets to give his feelings about what took place and because it doesn't jive with what others have said or because it was 20 years ago, there's all this unnecessary whining. Like I said earlier, I'm looking forward to William and Harry's upcoming interviews about their mother. It may not fit the script or history as some feel, however it is their story to tell.
 
Folks will have to get used to the young royals talking on a personal level. Harry and William are commemorating the 20th anniversary of their mother's passing. More touching and personal interviews are due to come. Especially with the Heads Together campaign.

Everyone should stick to the truth of what's being said. Not taking a quote and spinning it to make some dramatic headline that's not true the facts.
 
I saw 'journalist/royal biographer' Penny Junor on tv last night saying PH didn't have to walk behind his mother's coffin, he was given a choice. Was she present when the discussions took place? Did someone who knows someone, who knows someone else give her that info? Did she just guess? Finally PH gets to give his feelings about what took place and because it doesn't jive with what others have said or because it was 20 years ago, there's all this unnecessary whining. Like I said earlier, I'm looking forward to William and Harry's upcoming interviews about their mother. It may not fit the script or history as some feel, however it is their story to tell.

I understand that William had a choice, didn't want to walk behind the coffin but in the end he did. Why would Harry have been handled differently? I am sure he could have stood with other family members if he absolutely wanted to.

I wasn't horrified at all back then, I thought the men walking behind the coffin was very dignified. Of course it must have been the hardest thing they ever did; but then millions of young children will have done the same thing before them, albeit without the public watching, but then, William and Harry have been public figures since their birth, with the public watching at all times, good and bad.
 
Many non UK posters on here only have limited access to the entire range of UK media.

I read nearly all (don't do Daily Mail) and this interview has not helped Harry or the BRF with journos or the public. The vast majority think that he has a life of privilege and it comes at a cost. If he doesn't want to pay it, then leave.

This is the "man in the street" response. Not royal followers or Harry fans which are found on sites like this.

So in the UK this is a PR disaster.
I live in Norway now but I have subscriptions on most UK newspapers/websites and have access to UK TV channels through the tvpc link and I talk to my mother, stepfather, half brothers and friends who live in the UK often, and as you wrote: The vast majority think that he has a life of privilege and it comes at a cost. If he doesn't want to pay it, then leave.

This is as you also wrote the response from ordinary people (including friends of mine.)

So in the UK this is actually not just a PR disaster, it's a huge PR disaster.


The thing is Harry didn't go too far. His words were misinterpreted, but everyone already knows that the family don't have any ambition to get the Top Job. It's pure duty and service that the royal family work under. No member of the family really publicly talks about the possibility of becoming monarch. Not even Charles talks about it. If so, he's uncomfortable talking about it.

What really gets me is that many of these veteran royal reporters and correspondents know what Harry is talking about. They wanted a little excitement in their royal reporting and twisted Harry's words into the idea of he's saying that no one wants the future role of monarch. They made it seem like he's whining about his position. He knows it's a unique privilege and he's and other members of the family use it to do some good for others and the kingdom.
1. He doesn't think before he speaks and that have to change quickly.

2. When Harry says: ''Is there any one of the royal family who wants to be king or queen? I don’t think so, but we will carry out our duties at the right time'', then the manipulating British press will of course write that Harry says no-one in the royal family wants to be King/Queen. And I have to say that it surprises me that he did not see it coming. Is he really that naive?


I agree he shouldn't be talking about something that will never happen for him. Harry isn't going to be king.

What's happening now is some papers like the DM are taking a pop at the entire royal family (not the Queen)

It wasn't a good thing for Harry to say and I agree with Cepe, it's a PR disaster.

Max Hastings: Prince Harry should stop whinging | Daily Mail Online

I don't take Max Hastings seriously, but more serious people like Dickie Arbiter who have always praised Harry for what he does, is now saying ''that he has done much for mental health and has been good at talking about his own feelings, but that we now have reached a point where enough is enough.''

I have pro royal friends at my age (25-30) who now accuses him, William and Charles for being spoiled lazy idiots who are damagaging the monarchy, and who now says they want the UK to become a republic when the Queen dies. (And how people can call Charles lazy is without my comprehension)

I have an angry mother and grandparents who accuses Harry of being disrespecting to the Queen.

Several commentators and ordinary people have also come to the conclusion that Harry blames HM because he had to go behind his mother's coffin.

That's not what we call good PR, and what's even worse is that this has hurt the monarchy.
 
Last edited:
Folks will have to get used to the young royals talking on a personal level. Harry and William are commemorating the 20th anniversary of their mother's passing. More touching and personal interviews are due to come. Especially with the Heads Together campaign.

Everyone should stick to the truth of what's being said. Not taking a quote and spinning it to make some dramatic headline that's not true the facts.

Dman, I can always count on you to see the more positive side of things. Frankly these two can do no wrong in your eyes which sometimes is frankly hilarious.

Like I said in my post I took sometime before I responded so that I could get the full picture on this. I know full well that frequently the UK pick and choose what we should see.

The quote is this;

“We are involved in modernising the British monarchy. We are not doing this for ourselves but for the greater good of the people…. Is there any one of the royal family who wants to be king or queen? I don’t think so, but we will carry out our duties at the right time.”

(I've re-spelt modernising because the american spelling is wrong).

I have absolutely no issue with William and Henry speaking about their mental health issues surrounding their mothers death. I love the fact that they are more open with their emotions, and their connections they want to make with the public. I want them to be more accessible to their people, I'm with you on the things like more photoshoots, more outings, more "they're here".

What I don't like is Henry making such a sweeping statement that will obviously reflect badly on the family no matter which way you look at it. Whether you're a Daily Fail reader or a loyal admirer. In that sentence he sounds like a spoilt brat who is not grateful for what he's got. He simply shouldn't have said it at all. He knows who's going to read this article, who's going to see it. It's so unfortunate.

We all know that nobody wants to be King or Queen, but a member of the RF who isn't going to be King or Queen saying it aloud isn't right. It just diminishes the work his grandmother and his father have done especially, and the work William will need to do. I'm so upset.
 
Dman, I can always count on you to see the more positive side of things. Frankly these two can do no wrong in your eyes which sometimes is frankly hilarious.

Like I said in my post I took sometime before I responded so that I could get the full picture on this. I know full well that frequently the UK pick and choose what we should see.

The quote is this;



(I've re-spelt modernising because the american spelling is wrong).

I have absolutely no issue with William and Henry speaking about their mental health issues surrounding their mothers death. I love the fact that they are more open with their emotions, and their connections they want to make with the public. I want them to be more accessible to their people, I'm with you on the things like more photoshoots, more outings, more "they're here".

What I don't like is Henry making such a sweeping statement that will obviously reflect badly on the family no matter which way you look at it. Whether you're a Daily Fail reader or a loyal admirer. In that sentence he sounds like a spoilt brat who is not grateful for what he's got. He simply shouldn't have said it at all. He knows who's going to read this article, who's going to see it. It's so unfortunate.

We all know that nobody wants to be King or Queen, but a member of the RF who isn't going to be King or Queen saying it aloud isn't right. It just diminishes the work his grandmother and his father have done especially, and the work William will need to do. I'm so upset.

Lumutqueen, I do think William and Harry get it wrong sometimes and I also don't have a problem pointing out their mistakes.

I think the big problem is that some members of the media and people online took his words the wrong way. Some of them don't want to say that they misunderstood him. Harry just mentioned that the job of King and Queen isn't seeked, but it's a duty and dedication that's done when the job comes to you. Obviously, Harry will never be king, but he knows his family isn't trying to climb to the position. That's all he's pointing out. I remember reading the headline and I knew that couldn't have been what he said. He wouldn't say that his father and brother don't care for the job, because that wouldn't be true. He stuck to his truth. Everyone else twisted his words out of proportion.

Harry didn't say anything to diminish the 60+ years of his grandmother's service and his father long and successful apprenticeship.

Harry has made his share of mistakes, but this interview isn't one of them. People have to stop yearning for drama and controversy. Harry's words was far from that.
 
:previous: Might this be an example of the old political truism that in politics the truth doesn't matter, it's how things appear? I can't find the quote.

Thing is, it has always been about what things seem. The Diana phenomenon was (and is) all about that, about what is 'seeming' to be true.

I did come across this great quote by Mark Twain: "It's no wonder truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense." He could have easily been referencing public opinion.
 
Lumutqueen, I do think William and Harry get it wrong sometimes and I also don't have a problem pointing out their mistakes.

I think the big problem is that some members of the media and people online took his words the wrong way. Some of them don't want to say that they misunderstood him. Harry just mentioned that the job of King and Queen isn't seeked, but it's a duty and dedication that's done when the job comes to you. Obviously, Harry will never be king, but he knows his family isn't trying to climb to the position. That's all he's pointing out. I remember reading the headline and I knew that couldn't have been what he said. He wouldn't say that his father and brother don't care for the job, because that wouldn't be true. He stuck to his truth. Everyone else twisted his words out of proportion.

Harry didn't say anything to diminish the 60+ years of his grandmother's service and his father long and successful apprenticeship.

Harry has made his share of mistakes, but this interview isn't one of them. People have to stop yearning for drama and controversy. Harry's words was far from that.


With all due respect, Harry didn't say that the position of King or Queen was not sought by any royal out of ambition, as your benign interpretation suggests. He said literally, in his own actual words, that no royal wants to be King or Queen, and that they do it only because it is their obligation or duty.

The only possible conclusion the "common man" can arrive at after hearing those words is that they do it against their will, because they have to do it out of duty, and, if they could, they would rather be doing something else, which begs the question: why does the Nation keep supporting their life of extreme (unearned) wealth and privilege if they are so miserable about it ? Thankfully, Charles doesn't think like that and William, who may have felt that way too when he was younger, seems to have changed his mind / attitude.

Harry may have had a rough childhood, but he has lots of personal issues (which are seen in his drinking, his relationships, etc.) and really needs to seek professional help .
 
:previous: Might this be an example of the old political truism that in politics the truth doesn't matter, it's how things appear? I can't find the quote.

Thing is, it has always been about what things seem. The Diana phenomenon was (and is) all about that, about what is 'seeming' to be true.

I did come across this great quote by Mark Twain: "It's no wonder truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense." He could have easily been referencing public opinion.

Harry's words wasn't alternative facts or truth. That's something that DJT is doing. Which is driving everyone crazy.

With all due respect, Harry didn't say that the position of King or Queen was not sought by any royal out of ambition, as your benign interpretation suggests. He said literally, in his own actual words, that no royal wants to be King or Queen, and that they do it only because it is their obligation or duty.

The only possible conclusion the "common man" can arrive at after hearing those words is that they do it against their will, because they have to do it out of duty, and, if they could, they would rather be doing something else, which begs the question: why does the Nation keep supporting their life of extreme (unearned) wealth and privilege if they are so miserable about it ? Thankfully, Charles doesn't think like that and William, who may have felt that way too when he was younger, seems to have changed his mind / attitude.

Harry may have had a rough childhood, but he has lots of personal issues (which are seen in his drinking, his relationships, etc.) and really needs to seek professional help .

How many time we have heard that the role of monarch isn't what The Queen dreamt of. She wanted to be a countrywoman; with horses and dogs and living a private life. The Queen stepped up to the job, because her father became ill and died. She has served honorably. That's what Harry is saying. No one in the the family want to be king and Queen, but respect and serve the job that's put on them in the right time.

The headline is what threw people off. It was a simple misunderstanding and now some members of the media don't want to admit to it. Harry should've worded it differently, but he didn't mean the job of being royal and the Top Job isn't cared for. Even William has said that he don't sit around thinking about becoming King. It's just a job that lands on their doorstep and served with dedication.

Harry also complimented the need and "magic" of the monarchy, but it seems no one is paying any attention to that.
 
Last edited:
Harry has made his share of mistakes, but this interview isn't one of them. People have to stop yearning for drama and controversy. Harry's words was far from that.

Please don't speak for other people. If you don't think Harry has said anything wrong then say that. For other people what he has said is undermining, demeaning and very stupid.

Nobody is yearning for drama or controversy, we are writing about what we read and how we interpret it. :whistling:
 
Please don't speak for other people. If you don't think Harry has said anything wrong then say that. For other people what he has said is undermining, demeaning and very stupid.

Nobody is yearning for drama or controversy, we are writing about what we read and how we interpret it. :whistling:

From what I'm seeing, this was a major misunderstanding by the media and some people online. If Harry said that he don't care for being royal or that members of the royal family wish the job of monarch didn't exist..I would say Harry stepped in the puddle of poop.
 
Its occurred to me that in regards to Heads Together and mental health issues, this may also turn out to be a prime example of pitfalls.

Harry, himself, recently became open enough to talk about repressing things and finally having a breakthrough in order to deal with them. With breakthroughs come a rush of emotion that needs to be dealt with. The work doesn't stop with a breakthrough and *voila* problem solved, but the challenge continues on learning to mature emotionally and learn to harness them. It can take a lifetime even.

Just another thought on the matter. Perhaps from out in left field in a galaxy far, far away but a thought nevertheless.
 
From what I'm seeing, this was a major misunderstanding by the media and some people online. If Harry said that he don't care for being royal or that members of the royal family wish the job of monarch didn't exist..I would say Harry stepped in the puddle of poop.
1. The problem when it comes to the King/Queen thing isn't about what Harry said - its about what the media made it in to, and he (Harry) is responsible for that.

Why? Because he said it in a way that made the media go crazy about it.

2. Ordinary people are now accusing William, but also Charles (who work more than all of them along with Anne) for being spoiled and lazy.

How can people do that? Because they didn't even read what Harry really said.

Why is this damaging to the monarchy? Because people are now walking around and thinks that neither Charles or William wants to be monarchs.
 
Last edited:
1. The problem when it comes to the King/Queen thing isn't about what Harry said - its about what the media made it in to, and he (Harry) is responsible for that.

Why? Because he said it in a way that made the media go crazy about it.

2. Ordinary people are now accusing William, but also Charles (who work more than all of them along with Anne) for being spoiled and lazy.

How can people do that? Because they didn't even read what Harry really said.

Why is this damaging to the monarchy? Because people are now walking around and thinks that neither Charles or William wants to be monarchs.

Yes, I admit that Harry could've worded things better and that was his mistake. Although, who knew that the media was going to turn those words back on him and then try to make it seem like he's saying that his father and brother don't want to be Kings.

No one can make the case that Charles is lazy, when the man works so much, its not even funny. William isn't lazy either. The man works as an ambulance helicopter pilot, a busy husband and father of two crumb snatchers.

I'm sitting here reading all this stuff and I find it all rather silly. Mainly because I know Harry didn't mean it the way the media spun it. Right now the young members of the royal family and the media is going through a tough time. The royals want a good balance of work and private life, and the media want the royals on center stage 24/7. It's a big tug-a-war going on. Any sign of the royals mentioning the balance gets under some people's skin.
 
Yes, I admit that Harry could've worded things better and that was his mistake. Although, who knew that the media was going to turn those words back on him and then try to make it seem like he's saying that his father and brother don't want to be Kings.

No one can make the case that Charles is lazy, when the man works so much, its not even funny. William isn't lazy either. The man works as an ambulance helicopter pilot, a busy husband and father of two crumb snatchers.

I'm sitting here reading all this stuff and I find it all rather silly. Mainly because I know Harry didn't mean it the way the media spun it. Right now the young members of the royal family and the media is going through a tough time. The royals want a good balance of work and private life, and the media want the royals on center stage 24/7. It's a big tug-a-war going on. Any sign of the royals mentioning the balance gets under some people's skin.

On top of that, it looks like we're living in the era of Fake News. The road to all hell breaking loose is paved with good intentions but all hell breaks loose anyways.

For me, its time to revert to one of my Grandma's favorite sayings. "Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see". Saves a whole lot of confusion.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom